Q4W: What is degrading about the male gaze?

Barneysparky · 2020-06-03T19:37:06+00:00

Let's say you are trying to get a point across in a meeting and instead of listening to you the person you are trying to convey information to is obviously not hearing what you are saying because their eyes are intently looking at your sex parts. That one has happened to me in a job interview.

Let's say you are sitting alone on a park bench and a guy much larger than you sit down and just stares at you.

Let's say you are on a bus. Another much larger stranger is eying you intently when your stop comes they follow you out.

Are you saying you wouldn't be uncomfortable in those situations?

The male gaze is not just checking someone out. Checking out a hot person is natural. It's men who know they are making you uncomfortable and enjoy it.

It's one step below flashing. That being said I've met only a few men in my life that deploy the male gaze, most guys just check you out. Huge differences. No, it's not based on looks, in fact, guys who think they are hot are more likely to do it.

yasee · 2020-06-03T18:46:03+00:00

being an object of scrutiny makes me anxious so if someone stares at me in a really obvious way it triggers self-consciousness and discomfort. and it's sometimes accompanied by gross sexual comments, so there's that

bytheplumtrees · 2020-06-03T19:05:04+00:00

Honestly, I think fear is the root of it. A deep, deep, innate fear. These men can do whatever they want to us if they so chose.

philomexa · 2020-06-03T19:29:14+00:00

1.) fear

A man is visually dissecting my body for his gratification. This man also has unkown strength, temperament, and mental stability. I'm 5'3" and 125lbs, if a man decides to take what he see I'm at a great disadvantage.

2.) disgust

I only want men I approve of looking at me with sexual appetite. Sexually undesirable men should remain as mutual NPCs. Is that fair? no. Do I care? Not really. Is that going to stop them? No, not unless we get a long needed cutural shame revivial.

3.) disgust 2.0

The innate truth that no matter my personhood, traits, talents, intellect, etc, I will still always first be viewed as a sexual option. Sexual objectification is great with a man that already acknowledges my humanity, but for everyone else sexual objectification goes hand in hand with dehumanization. When I have to deal with humanity, I rather lean away from tendencies to dehumanize.

4.) disgust AND fear

The male gaze is usually focused on body parts; its no coincidence that serial killers also like to focus on body parts.

rubbooyuri · 2020-06-03T23:01:55+00:00

Cuz you’re just a thing for sex. That’s the only thing that matters.

Just like opposing armies in movies are just hero fodder

softhandsam · 2020-06-03T22:07:52+00:00

[deleted]

goatismycopilot · 2020-06-03T19:00:55+00:00

So you are saying women should feel sorry for men who subject them to the male gaze like you did with gay dudes?

fuggtyler · 2020-06-04T06:56:11+00:00

I can think of two times I saw other men interact with women that put me in a pause.

One time a white dude was standing on the pavement, he was overweight and baddly dressed, smoking a cigarette.

Two maybe early 20s ( about 20 or so years younger than him) young japanese girls walked past, he openly turns his head to follow them with a massive huge grin on his face.

He doesn't make any sense, he just goes "come on! Yeaaaaah" and beckons them to him.

They do not even break their stride or turn back to look at him and their faces wince as they continue walking past him.

He calls out to them again and takes a step or two towards them trailing off turns to his mates and acts exasperated speaking about what he would have done to them.

I think men and women flirting and checking each other out is normal, but I've seen many times when guys have been beyond creepy, like something out of a movie, actually creepy. If you had a sister you would clench your fist if you saw it.

I remember I went to a town in the north, an extremely attractive blonde girl was walking around the town centre. There was a 50 year old bald dishevelled looking man, following her with like a 5 second delay, she'd stand somewhere different on the plaza and he'd just trail her like a zombie. At first I thought she was with her dad but the way she looked so uncomfortable I realised it was literally a stalking.

I felt so shocked, she knew he was following her but did not want to acknowledge him out of fear, she simply kept playing this dance of trying to get away from him. You even think she may have been embarrassed, didn't want to make a scene.

I saw this stuff several times throughout my life. When it happens it's so bizzare you don't even think of it.

I can't even get started on the stories women told of being groped without consent, a weirdo guy in our group kept trying it on with a girl, she went upstairs to sleep, he said "brb guys", people heard a scream, he had went up and fingered her in her sleep.

No question of the police even occurred to anyone. It was just an unpleasant incident nobody spoke of again.

gaylord_fag_2 · 2020-06-03T19:26:55+00:00

It's similar to any other gaze when someone has their attention focused on you and that feels too intense. If your autistic and have trouble making eye contact you know exactly what I'm talking about. And regular eye contact is not sexual at all, but if you are a certain sensitive neurodivergent type it's hell to go through.

VexingTetrimino · 2020-06-03T19:59:04+00:00

i think that the male gaze totally has it's time and place. the problem that i have with it is that it's the default view. this causes:

Poor understanding on what women want/not want, like/dislike
Women's stories are not told, seen, paid attention to, or valued
Women's goals, accomplishments, hopes and dreams not taken seriously
The othering of women
Women are second class
Women only seen as sex objects
Women adopting this thinking too because it's just so normal and deeply rooted =(

and this is all crazy to me because women are 51% of the population!

EDIT: added #7

Silly_Field · 2020-06-04T02:06:31+00:00

It’s disgusting to be looked at like a piece of meat by 50% of the world. To be sexualised by just any man who decides you’re hot - absolutely foul.

There’s also a bunch of expectations built in about how women will conform to the male gaze ie dress nicely, be hairless, have long hair and blah blah. It’s awful knowing that because the male gaze is so pervasive your worth in society - not just as a romantic partner - is inextricably tied to those things.

I’m using ‘male gaze’ as you have used it - but it is specifically a term from film studies about how women are always filmed with a particular gaze (a male, objectifying gaze) and this means women in film are often two dimensional props.

Mimoxs · 2020-06-03T19:00:05+00:00

It feels very invasive and uncomfortable to think that someone you don't really know is thinking about you sexually. I don't even really like the idea of that when dating someone.

The unfortunate reality is many men will admit that they think about or even jerk off to thinking about coworkers, classmates, close girl friends, or even sisters and cousins, I have even seen more than one man online confess to having jerked off to his mom.

There is a feeling of it being inescapable, unavoidable. You cannot escape that someone will see you, and think of fucking you.

That thought, that ability, feels like it should be reserved for someone you trust and love, just like actual sex is. The idea that someone you don't trust or love is thinking about you this way feels intrusive. Like a violation of your decency and privacy. It makes me feel icky whenever I think someone is looking at me like that.

I'm not saying anything along the lines of "stare rape" is real, bc it's unrealistic to pretend like you have to consent to being fantasized about, but knowing it happens still feels wrong and makes me sad.

Also largely because, men who think about you sexually, tend to think of you as an object, subhuman, some thing that exists exclusively to be for their fantasy fuel.

Asbelowsoaboveme · 2020-06-03T19:49:38+00:00

It’s predatory and objectifying, so it feels threatening and invasive like you’re being assessed piece by piece by a carnivore that’s considering whether you’re easy enough prey.

I hate it from most men, but I enjoy it when my boyfriend looks at me that way, because it’s consensual and just part and parcel of male sexuality.

LittyKitsune · 2020-06-03T19:46:38+00:00

We have different faces and gazes for different levels of familiarity, right?

I wouldn't like at a complete stranger in the same way I'd look at my family, or an SO. If a person looks at their child like a stranger people will naturally feel that there's something wrong there, though it's difficult to put into words.

The kind of male gaze you're taking about is for me an example of giving an intimate look to a stranger. Like, I don't know you like that.

dot_dot_dot__ · 2020-06-04T03:25:18+00:00

Nothing in and of itself. This seems like a concept that was developed in the U.S. by white women.

BlackPorcelainDoll · 2020-06-04T05:02:48+00:00

I don't give a shit what random men look at or do

mydikishomofobik · 2020-06-04T13:25:17+00:00

Honestly, who gives a fuck if women don't like being stared at. Heterosexual men are sexually attracted to nice looking women. That's just a fact. Some people literally beach about everything other people do. They complain about men approaching women, men watching porn, men jacking off, men banging hookers, men going overseas to get laid, men looking at women. If you want to spend your time whinging over stuff that isn't a big deal or doesn't seriously affect you, that's your problem. Let the butthurt flow through you like Luke Skywalker.

Superfluous_Toast · 2020-06-04T23:10:41+00:00

Being reduced to a means to an end. The understanding that they're not interested in the fact that I'm a person, with a mind and thoughts as complex and nuanced as their own, but only see me as a body. An object, just a thing they can use to acheive orgasm and nothing more.

octocombo · 2020-06-04T00:40:02+00:00

First note: the “male gaze” is not every time a man looks at a woman. Most of the time, there is nothing wrong with a man looking at a woman. The term “male gaze” usually refers to either (a) when a man stares at a woman with an intensity and duration which are socially uncomfortable, or (b) when media represents everything through the male perspective (e.g., books that describe events and characters through a male paradigm - usually sexual, male POV porn)

(a) is scary - if a man is staring intensely at me for a long time, it tends to activate predator/prey and fight-or-flight instincts both because it doesn't seem like a social situation if he's not looking in a socially normal way and because he is likely to be physically more powerful than I am

(b) tends to provoke feelings of exclusion, helplessness when it shows women as passive objects rather than active participants in their own lives, and cognitive dissonance when it shows women thinking in a way which a woman would just never think about herself (e.g., if an author of a first-person novel spends a paragraph talking about how a woman showering at the gym sexily soaps up her tits)

Appomattoxx · 2020-06-03T19:13:40+00:00

It's annoying in movies because you feel like the movie caters to men.

PaintingOfJoan · 2020-06-03T19:22:28+00:00

Nothing to me! It’s usually exciting.

CatchPhraze · 2020-06-03T19:13:58+00:00

In a lot of cases it's because it's frustrating to have my sexuality Trump any other aspect of who I am.

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psypD · 2020-06-04T00:43:32+00:00

It doesn't matter and it absolutely should not matter to any man. I had this problem due to a lot of brainwashing in my childhood that stopped me from looking at, and making eye contact to women and men while in public. It took a lot of effort but I overcome it. Now I never do it, they either have a good response and smile or they will acknowledge my fucking dominance, get Oh So scared and look at the fucking ground. Either way it's a nice confidence boost to me.Being a bigger dude works well when it comes to other men that try to stare you down. Fuck them and fuck their "humanity" because you know that is their attitude towards you most of the time..

slavicgypsygirl · 2020-06-04T01:25:25+00:00

I am used to the male gaze & make money from it so don't find it degrading

Its so hardwired that men cant help but look even when they try not to

2020-06-04T02:33:44+00:00

I don’t really care if men look, say something, compliment, or try to go on a date with me.

I DO care that many do not take “no thank you” or even “I’m married” as an answer.

Not all men do this, but when one does it feels very threatening. Sometimes men will try and follow you home after hearing “no”. I’m not sure why, because surely this just reduces their chances from 0 to -100. But it makes you wonder if they’ll resort to violence or stalking.

I had men stalk me at my place of work when I was younger and worked in retail. I had to get my boyfriend to pick me up right at the door because I was scared.

Ones who walked in, lurked for a little too long (I worked in a store for women, so if they weren’t looking for a gift there really wasn’t anything for them there...) and then asked for my number; didn’t mind at all. They heard “no thanks, I’m with someone” and went “well, can’t blame me for trying!” I’d smile, agree with them, and they’d be on their way.

For some reason this would usually happen on weekdays during the day. Not sure why. Maybe because the store was usually empty during that time.

The issue is NOT that men are interested in women. Not at all. Women who get offended when men are interested have no right to complain that they’re single. If men are told they should be the ones to approach, then when they do they’re treated like garbage, it just doesn’t make sense to me....

It’s the fear that a “no” will turn into predatory behaviour.

I used to have a guy on meth that would constantly come into my place of work (different place this time) and harass me for dates and my number. I started off polite, then turned not so polite after weeks of him not taking no for an answer. The fact that he was constantly on drugs and appeared pretty erratic was frightening for me and I always had my husband pick me up right at the door when we closed at 10.

I take transit and would NOT take transit at night from that location for that reason.

Sophiatab · 2020-06-04T19:16:44+00:00

Being an object of sexual interest by a man who has anything other than honorable intentions (i.e., he just sees you as a whore he doesn't have to pay for) is insulting to some women.

gifagi1213 · 2020-06-04T22:06:22+00:00

If you’re attractive, they are ok with it.

Dublin_M4ledom · 2020-06-05T20:50:06+00:00

If you wish to understand all feminist literature, replace 'male' with 'fecal'.

A gaze is a gaze. A male gaze is evil incarnate. If a man is gazing at some clouds, those clouds are being raped.

Willow-girl · 2020-06-06T12:53:12+00:00

We know what you're thinking, dude.

PlanetSquare · 2020-06-12T00:12:37+00:00

I don't mind people simply finding me attractive. I feel flattered by genuine compliments. I don't even mind it too much when a guy around my age tries to respectfully hit on me, even though I'm not interested

It felt degrading when men much older than me would catcall me when I was 14-17. It made me feel like there was something wrong with me, like maybe I looked old and they mistook me for someone their own age because I couldn't imagine why an adult would try to give that kind of attention to someone who was obviously underage. I didn't really know how to tell creeps to get lost and didn't want to be considered rude but I hated whenever men would try talking to me and wouldn't just go away. I didn't like being sexualized before I really even understood my own sexuality, and it made me feel dirty and shameful like it was my fault that I was somehow giving these men the idea that I would want their attention. I was really ashamed of my body because of it and would try to cover it with very baggy boy clothes, but men would still do it.

Honestly I don't really notice when they just look at me from afar though, I only notice when they actually approach me. Other people have mentioned that they notice guys stare at me but I wouldn't know if they didn't say anything. Maybe because I'm autistic, who knows. So the gaze itself isn't what bothered me, but men have grabbed me, tried to kiss me, followed me in their cars, followed me home on the bus, pressured me to give them my number, called me obscenities for literally no reason, threatened me, etc. and that's what really I have an issue with.

I'm 21 and I'm better at handling those situations than I was when I was younger, but I still don't like it. It no longer makes me feel dirty, now I see the men as the dirty ones.

I don't like men who attempt to downgrade me to a baby-making machine or a fun little plaything. I'm a person with emotions, goals, ambitions.

Online my sexuality is also often invalidated by men who are attracted to me because I don't fit what they think a lesbian should look like. It's annoying to have guys try to convince me that I just haven't met the right guy yet (implying that they are the right guy).

neelie_jpeg · 2020-06-12T06:07:47+00:00

Oh, so many things.

If it’s the gaze of a man I don’t know, it can be terrifying. How am I supposed to know what he’s capable of? What if he’s predatory?

Sexual objectification is another reason. Perhaps this is something that you just won’t be able to fully relate to as a man. What you have to understand is that most women have been sexually objectified their whole lives. For example, when I was 13, I was on the bus with my mother. I was even in my school uniform. A grown man (he seemed a little drunk) walked on, looked at me seductively and momentarily stood between my legs. My mother, of course, freaked the shit out and screamed “she’s a fucking child!” The man’s response? “What do you expect? I’m a man.”

The male gaze is unwanted attention. The man will usually know it is unwanted attention, but continues anyway. This is fundamentally because he does not see you as having any use beyond being the object of his gaze. It is utterly dehumanising - and I hope the above story gives that even more context. It is as though someone else feels entitled to my body and that, by extension, my body isn’t own. If I had no experience of the male gaze, like you, I probably wouldn’t think of it as a big deal either. But when it has been a relentless source of discomfort for as long as you can remember, your feelings might be a little different.

Of course, I am referring to specific situations - a male glance here and there, if done respectfully, is fine. But there are certain (more predatory) male gazes that truly do make you feel all of the above.

SaBahRub · 2020-06-04T01:20:27+00:00

It’s dehumanizing

Meritamen9 · 2020-06-03T19:56:07+00:00

Nothing for me. It can just be annoying.

Mrs_Drgree · 2020-06-03T18:47:30+00:00

[removed]

Title	Q4W: What is degrading about the male gaze?
Author	Appomattoxx
Upvotes	14
Comments	239
Date	June 3, 2020 6:35 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/gvzne5/q4w_what_is_degrading_about_the_male_gaze/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/q4w-what-is-degrading-about-the-male-gaze.673185 https://theredarchive.com/post/673185

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