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Doctors are performing pelvic exams on anaesthetised women without consent. If you’re going into surgery you need to explicitly state you don’t want one. Stay safe out there.

Salem_32

July 26, 2021
584 upvotes
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/paulhsieh/2018/05/14/pelvic-exams-on-anesthetized-women-without-consent-a-troubling-and-outdated-practice/amp/

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Post Information
Title Doctors are performing pelvic exams on anaesthetised women without consent. If you’re going into surgery you need to explicitly state you don’t want one. Stay safe out there.
Author

Salem_32

Upvotes 584
Comments 70
Date July 26, 2021 10:26 PM UTC
(5 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/FemaleDatingStrategy
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/comments/os9q4w/doctors_are_performing_pelvic_exams_on/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/doctors-are-performing-pelvic-exams-on.794939
https://theredarchive.com/post/794939

Comments

[–]huevos_and_whiskeyFDS Newbie 335 points336 points337 points 5 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

Why the f can’t they just practice on conscious people?

[–]trettlesFDS Disciple 257 points258 points259 points 5 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

They say because not enough conscious people will consent

[–]Educational_Okra_798Throwaway Account 253 points254 points255 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

They should be sued for assault

[–]MaingurlFDS Apprentice 78 points79 points80 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Eww! Fucking weirdos!

[–]TrixieFriganzaFDS Newbie 135 points136 points137 points 5 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

Isn't this rape then, USA seem like such a weird country sometimes (or lot of times), it's shocking to me that stuff like this from the 1800s still happen.

[–]trettlesFDS Disciple 79 points80 points81 points 5 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

It’s not just in the US. They do it in Australia, Canada & the UK also. They probably do it in other places too.

[–]unbotheredfeministFDS Newbie 31 points32 points33 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yep in France too

[–]worriedrenterTWFDS Newbie 3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

And in new zealand

[–]queen-wannabeFDS Newbie 4 points5 points6 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Scrotes know no bounds.

[–]cherieblosumFDS Disciple 32 points33 points34 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Good point. You could easily do the pelvic exam to the patient prior to surgery when the patient is conscious. The physicians claim that the pelvic exam is part of the consent for the surgery.

[–]Platipus6FDS Apprentice 147 points148 points149 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Wow, the lengths they go to. "How was I supposed to know she didn't want xyz done to her while she was asleep, I'm not a mind-reader"

[–]randomgirl34861FDS Newbie 141 points142 points143 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Any time you expose the cervix to a foreign object, your health is at risk because you could introduce new bacteria to a sensitive region of the body. Yes this is invasive and embarrassing, but it could also be increasing our risk for illnesses.

[–]JamiepappasatlantaFDS Newbie 318 points319 points320 points 5 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

I had a medical student in the emergency room at Northwestern medical center in Chicago give me an internal exam without my consent. He really hurt me. It seemed as if he had never had an anatomy class on women. I was not in there for female trouble so they shouldn’t have let him practice on me. I complained to the attending physician. This is assault.

[–]randomgirl34861FDS Newbie 127 points128 points129 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

What a shame… we can’t even feel safe in places that are designed for the purpose of keeping us alive and safe. I’m so sorry that happened to you.

[–]JamiepappasatlantaFDS Newbie 9 points10 points11 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks. I hate places when men in their jobs have positions of authority over you and your body. Always say I do not consent to you giving me an internal exam. Also, always say if you are getting an operation, that you don’t want the intern doing the surgery. A lot of times the real doctor you met or know does not do the actual surgery. He/she watches while the intern does it. They never tell you this. Last time I had surgery I told my doctor to his face I wanted him and not the intern doing my surgery. This could have ramifications if you have to file a lawsuit.

[–]LevellingUpTimeFDS Newbie 226 points227 points228 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

"What's the problem, it's not like you'd ever find out" says the men who would never agree to prostate exams without permission while unconscious

[–]Some-Air9442FDS Newbie 95 points96 points97 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Nope, these male doctors need full rectal exams. Maybe a colonoscopy.

[–]whydennyFDS Newbie 64 points65 points66 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I can't believe this is truly in the name of science.

Are rectal exams performed on men while they're unconscious as well?

[–]trettlesFDS Disciple 325 points326 points327 points 5 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

I don’t understand why the training doctors don’t volunteer themselves for these exams. If it’s so important, no big deal & will make them better doctors, then they should be all for it? I’m guessing it’s because it’s intrusive and embarrassing. The same as for the patients they’re raping...

[–]munissaFDS Newbie 157 points158 points159 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Exactly. This is so fucked. If they want to practice pelvic exams, they should 1. Ask for permission and 2. After consenting, pay the people. Them justifying this kind of action is beyond me.

[–]Some-Air9442FDS Newbie 60 points61 points62 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

The male doctors need rectal exams. Turn and cough fellas. Fair is fair.

[–]dancedancedance7FDS Newbie 43 points44 points45 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

😳 oh my god. Those surgeries don't even necessarily have anything to do with the pelvis!

[–]Angeli_33FDS Newbie 115 points116 points117 points 5 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

I had a painful lump in my right boob and I went to my GP to get it examined. I also had some freckles on there which were new and I don't sunbathe so? They always preach that for any strange thing going on with your breasts you need to be checked right? Anyway, my regular female GP wasn't available for 3 weeks, but there was a male GP available. I scheduled a phone meeting (due to Covid everything is by phone) and he forgot to call me back. Anyway he called me the next day and when I said my boob hurts, he said for me to come over right away. Then when I got there he tells me to take my top of so he can examine. I said can't I just lift my top? Anyway I hated the whole experience for some reason. Then he checks it out while I'm laying on the thing that patients lay down on. He measures my heart rate and listens to my heart. Then he says it's most likely muscle pain from working out. I said are you sure? He also made a mockery of my worry about freckles, saying I have a lot of moles anyway. I said but one boob hurts constantly right behinf my nipple. I asked him if it were cancerous, could he tell by measuring my blood pressure? He says yep. I ask can we rule out cancer? Again yep. So I leave but I felt super unsettled afterwards so now I'm scheduling a meeting at a private clinic to have a mammography done. Insurance isn't covering it since GP didn't give me a refferal. Anyway :/ I seriously felt liked I flashed a dude for nothing. Like it didn't feel like "oh he's a doctor it's fine". I felt gross. I never want a male doctor again. No thank you. Also I'm cancelling my insurance since nothing ever gets covered anyway.

[–]thinktwiceorelseFDS Newbie 45 points46 points47 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

My doc sometimes check my boobs for lumps, but so half assedly, that yeah, I feel like I flashed him for nothing.

[–]partypancakesbaconFDS Newbie 252 points253 points254 points 5 years ago* (15 children) | Copy Link

I went in for surgery and when I came home I’m 90% sure I had semen coming out of me when I wiped after the bathroom. I’ve only been with women the last few years but remembered very well what semen coming out after sex looks like from being married to a man before. Hasn’t happened since or before. So unless they put something in me that dissolved to be the consistency of cum, either the surgeon or anesthetist raped me. I was on pain meds after the surgery that they gave me before discharge, so I was incapacitated in judgement and in too much pain to move or lay down let alone call the police to make a report and get a kit done for semen analysis. It would have been my word against theirs. They know when they have opportunities and they take it.

[–]lostmilleniaFDS Newbie 103 points104 points105 points 5 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

Omg. So sorry this happened to you. Horrifying!

[–]partypancakesbaconFDS Newbie 68 points69 points70 points 5 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Thank you. Sharing so others are aware of this possibility. I’m not even sure it is preventable aside from wearing some sort of chastity device which I’m sure would be prohibited. I had met my surgeon and trusted him and the anesthesiologist was outgoing and chatty before putting me under - nothing unusual to raise flags. It still seems unbelievable to me but I remember very very clearly what came out of me after.

[–]Few-Fortune-2391FDS Newbie 36 points37 points38 points 5 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

I can't believe we're having this discussion. You should be able to trust all men in a health care setting.

For women going in to surgery could you use either:

Rapex? It's like an anti rape tube with teeth.

Underwear shorts by AR Wear which can't be cut. I assume you can wear underwear underneath your gown in surgery?

[–]partypancakesbaconFDS Newbie 48 points49 points50 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

There were also 2 female surgical assistants there when I was put under, but neither were there when I woke up. This was at a very prestigious outpatient hospital on an affluent area, and I happen to be a physician myself. This could happen to anyone, anywhere.

[–]mightyduckduck1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You are a physician yourself okay

[–]OnlyPaperListensFDS Newbie 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

AR Wear doesn't exist. They took the Kickstarter money and went radio silent.

[–]Whateverbabe2FDS Apprentice 55 points56 points57 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Please get an STD panel

[–]partypancakesbaconFDS Newbie 50 points51 points52 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I did. Multiple. Was very lucky to not contract anything. It still seems so surreal to me.

[–]yfunk3FDS Newbie 22 points23 points24 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh my god. That is horrific. Is it still possible to make a complaint? At least get it on record against the hospital?

[–]queenagaveFDS Newbie 9 points10 points11 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This is terrifying. I'm so sorry. I wish I had something more to say😔

[–]princesspoppy77 4 points5 points6 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

So sry you went through this too. I’m pretty sure the same happened to me at a hospital. Not for surgery, but they did put me out of with tranquilizer meds when I could feel something happening as I was becoming drowsy. Very rough and painful down there. And I was powerless to stop it and I knew it. This is happening and I know it, because as a woman you just know. There needs to be more attention drawn to this disgusting problem. It outrages me and is so disorienting and hard to process.

[–]HamburgerFries8Throwaway Account 29 points30 points31 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I'm completely unable to have a pelvic exam or pap while conscious. I've tried it 3 times and the pain was so indescribable each time and the lady barely went a quarter inch in. I then consented to have it done under anesthesia. As far as I know, there were not going to be men present. But when I saw the instructions for the preparation for the surgery, I couldn't handle the burden of it and canceled. Now I'm back to square one. I don't know what I'm going to tell my primary doctor at my next physical about my failed attempt at a pap and pelvic from the obgyn. The primary doctor's office had been pushing for a pap for quite awhile now. I just don't want this.

[–]honeybadgerattitudeFDS Newbie 12 points13 points14 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I’m so sorry, that’s awful. Depending on where you are, you might be able to call the clinic or hospital where you were due to have the procedure and ask to speak to the head nurse. You can discuss your issues and ask what they could do to help you get through it. They are used to people having anxiety over medical procedures and should be able to do whatever you need them to help you. You still decide after that if you’re willing to do it. Patients have rights and if you know what they are you will feel more empowered

[–]NaiveClub3147Throwaway Account 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Consider pelvic floor therapy with a physiotherapist. I’ve personally noticed incredible changes in a year and what you’re describing was exactly the same for me! And also, you can get a Pap smear done with a pediatric speculum. Hang in there- there’s light at the end of the tunnel. Sorry you’re going through this.

[–]FantasticBlood0FDS Newbie 88 points89 points90 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

“For the benefit of the society” - EXCUSE ME? My body does not exist for the benefit of the society. I don’t exist for the benefit of the society. Society can kiss my fat ass with their expectations and benefits they expect me to provide!

[–]NotYourCirceFDS Newbie 70 points71 points72 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I remember reading about this and this article is from 2018. Is this still happening even now in 2021? I thought something had been done about it

[–]discoveringlibertyFDS Newbie 17 points18 points19 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeah another article was shared about this here around 4 months ago and it said the policy was being revoked... does anyone have an update?

[–]Davina33FDS Disciple 14 points15 points16 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Horrible, I've had surgery in England once, I hope they didn't do that to me.

[–]McccyFDS Disciple 46 points47 points48 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

But remember ladies! We live life on easY moDE /s

[–]arabbelFDS Newbie 5 points6 points7 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You just know the creeps that always say this would totally consider this horror part of "easy mode" - like some sort of "see, women even get free sexual activity when they're asleep, sluts!" After all, these are the same dudes that think putting in a tampon and giving birth are akin to masturbating.

[–]zigzagtallywagFDS Newbie 39 points40 points41 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

This is horrifying.

[–]Salem_32[S] 5 points6 points7 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I feel violated just reading about it. There’s something so demented about abusing someone’s trust in that way. Patients put their lives in the surgeon's hands hoping to receive the medical help they need. Only to have students line up to assault them and treat them like a teaching tool rather than a person in a very vulnerable state who needs to be protected and cared for. It makes me sick.

[–]ApartPersonalityFDS Newbie 157 points158 points159 points 5 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

I will never consent to gynecological work with a male physician. I think women who insist that they wouldn’t mind a male gynecologist are peak “cool girl.”

[–]its_me_phospheneFDS Newbie 138 points139 points140 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I was sexually assaulted by the only gynecologist at my college health center. He assaulted hundreds of women of 20 years and the school tried to cover it up. I will never see a male dr again because of this. I get flashbacks even if it’s not a gynecologist. I have a team of amazing female doctors and couldn’t be happier.

Don’t know why ur getting downvotes. I think male gynecologists are inherently creepy to go into that specialization.

[–]ApartPersonalityFDS Newbie 59 points60 points61 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I’m so sorry that that happened to you :( It makes my blood boil on your behalf.

I don’t care if I get downvotes on this. Haters and male lurkers can die mad about it.

[–]luvmyvulvaxoxoFDS Apprentice 49 points50 points51 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree, I don’t know why her comment isn’t the top comment. My first gyno (who was male) treated me super well. The second was so shitty. I agree women should be wary of male doctors in general.

I’ve had AWFUL experiences with regular male doctors.

[–]LevellingUpTimeFDS Newbie 141 points142 points143 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

The most searing indictment of male gynecology is the book by Dr. John
M. Smith entitled Women and Doctors (The Atlantic Monthly Press, 1992).
After spending nearly twenty-five years in gynecological training and
clinical practice, Dr. Smith paints a dismal picture of the woman’s
specialist.

“Male gynecologists, like all men, go through the kind of
‘attitude setting’ that occurs in the proverbial locker rooms while they
are growing into manhood.” Dr. Smith, whose practice was in Colorado
Springs, says that “It is common and acceptable among practicing
gynecologists to speak about their patients bodies, sexual behavior, or
medical problems indiscriminately, in terms that are demeaning and
reflect a lack of kindness and respect.” (p. 27)

Becoming more explicit, he charges them with eroticizing the medical scene: “It is a rare male who is able to see women day in and day out, examine their bodies, hear
details of their sex lives, and not only never have a lascivious thought
or abuse that access but always remain clinical…” (p.29)

He confesses that “I have had a colleague invite me to do an exam on one of his
patients under the false guise of a consultation because ‘she has a body
you won’t believe’.” “I have seen a physician walk out of an exam room
and tell a hallway full of doctors and nurses about the disease his
married patient had contracted as a result of an affair. I have seen
more than one gynecologist walk into an operating room where another
doctor’s patient was already asleep for surgery, lift up the sheet,
admire the patient’s breasts, and continue his conversation without
pause.” (p.27)

Dr. Smith concludes dramatically: After twenty-four years
of medical education and clinical gynecological experience, it is my
opinion that males should not be gynecologists. The role properly
belongs to women.” (p.29)"

Male gynecologists should be trusted as much as any random well-dressed man you'd meet on the street (ie. none). They are still men, and maybe most of them won't be inappropriate because they want money and to keep their reputation, but doesn't mean they're trustworthy

[–]Some-Air9442FDS Newbie 67 points68 points69 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Men are built primarily for manual labor and should stick to that. Caregiving is above their pay grade.

[–]ChickaDeeD33FDS Newbie 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Amen!

[–]luvmyvulvaxoxoFDS Apprentice 44 points45 points46 points 5 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

My first gyno was a man. Honestly he was amazing. The nurse put me at ease, he put me at ease, he explained everything he was going to do before he did it. At the end he asked if I had any questions - he was straight forward and informative about both control. I got no creeper vibes. It was all clinical.

The second one I had tried to make jokes with me and I fucking hated it. I also felt he let his personal decisions influence his advice.

Im Jewish and so was my first doctor, so maybe that was it?

But I agree. I’ll never have a male gyno again. I think I got super lucky with the first one. We had the same background and he treated me like I was an adult, was straightforward, spent as little time down there as he could, warned me. Considering my other experience I’d say my very first one was the best.

Edit; I made this comment to show there’s hope for men. Not to say “not all men”

[–]thinktwiceorelseFDS Newbie 21 points22 points23 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I fucking hate when they crack jokes. I wish they would stop. It's inappropriate.

[–]yfunk3FDS Newbie 32 points33 points34 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Exactly. Had a woman once insist that she thought male gynos were "more thorough" because female gynos "think they know what's wrong with you".

There is so much internalized misogyny in women to fight in today's society STILL, it's insane.

[–]all_or_nothing_betFDS Apprentice 90 points91 points92 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

They actually asked for my permission for a sweet young student to do a pelvic exam on me while under anesthesia. I was already terrified of the surgery so I said no but under different circumstances I'd definitely allow it.

[–]thediverswifeFDS Newbie 8 points9 points10 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Wow that’s beyond disgusting

[–]CaliforniaKedFDS Apprentice 30 points31 points32 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Looks like Texas just outlawed this - in June 2021! No doubt the law was passed due to increased awareness from forums like this. Thank you for sharing!

[–]BoondersnoontchFDS Newbie 28 points29 points30 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

are pelvic exams and pap smears the same thing? ntl, horrifying i think i just started menopause because of this

[–]Platipus6FDS Apprentice 54 points55 points56 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

A pap smear can be done by itself - swabbing the cells of your cervix to check for std's, hpv and cancer cells. The swab gets sent away to a lab to be tested and you receive results. It's put on file so you get notified in 1-3 years when you need another one.

A pelvic exam can be the whole thing - checking vulva for warts, cuts abrasions, lesions. Checking the vaginal walls for cuts, tears, sores. And visually inspecting the cervix. Sometimes they press on your lower stomach to check for ovary pain indicating cysts. A fertility or abnormal pain exam can involve an ultrasound on your lower abdomen, and an internal (wand shaped) ultrasound inside your vagina.

An assault exam will do all of the above (probably not the ultrasounds), collect more swabs, comb for foreign hairs, and check your anus. And take photos.

I don't think they're doing a pap smear for the woman's benefit. It's an extremely inappropriate 'teaching moment' - get a look at this while she's asleep.

[–]discoveringlibertyFDS Newbie 17 points18 points19 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I encourage everyone to take what action they can on this. I have:

. submitted an FOI request to the NHS (UK) asking for confirmation that this is still happening and if so their administrative practices surrounding this

. spread awareness of this among my friends and family members

. upon receiving my FOI request back I will also write to my MP asking for them to oppose this, and start a petition calling for this to be made illegal in the UK

. you could also write to your local papers, and the trashy ones may be better bets since they can post a shocking headline. I will do this too once my FOI request comes back

[–]QuebeksFDS Newbie 5 points6 points7 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I can attest this still happens. When I was in medical school and residency, it would be a line up if people doing pelvic exam after pelvic exam on anesthetized patients. Starting with the attending, then 1-2 residents and then 1-2 medical students. It always made me feel icky but I never spoke out against it. Oh, how I wish I would’ve said something.

[–]pretty_killFDS Apprentice 3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If this was a male rectum exam, it would be illegal already.

[–]eyeroll_cityFDS Newbie 15 points16 points17 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I’m getting my wisdom teeth out and will be under anesthesia. Do you think this is something I should tell the Oral surgeon? Or do they not practice pelvic exams in oral surgeries?

[–]Chemical-Complaint-8FDS Newbie 11 points12 points13 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Depends where you're having it done. Lots of hospitals and private clinics don't have medical students. Normally you won't have to worry about it if you're getting oral and maxillofacial surgery they have a lot of patients and don't have time for that type of nonsense.

[–]yfunk3FDS Newbie 5 points6 points7 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You can maybe request a female oral surgeon and female assistants?

[–]Typical_Candle_5627Throwaway Account 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

i’m having a surgery in a few weeks in a state that still allows this apparently. i like my surgeon and find him to be respectful. how do i request this without being awkward? this is insane btw and adding extra stress.

[–]NeedMoreCoffee15FDS Newbie 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This is completely stupid! Sure, let’s go practice on unconscious people who did not and would not consent to this!

Wanna give your med students some practice? Hold a weekend clinic and offer free pelvic exams, and free/low cost paps! Hell, hold a few of them on different weekends in different neighboring cities. The number of women who very much want this care, even if it’s for teaching students, and who don’t have access or means is astronomical. Students don’t HAVE to learn every aspect of medicine inside the hospital; there is so much opportunity to learn in other healthcare settings, and it would actually benefit the patients.

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You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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