Female allies?

ParisCummings_ · 2019-12-28T14:46:41+00:00

Do t give into it. I am female, not a feminist and personally think men are given a bad deal in society.

I applaud your stance - I know just what you mean about the backlash, I’ve had it too, but it makes my resolve stronger.

5th_Law_of_Robotics · 2019-12-28T15:21:10+00:00

You can just be an MRA.

That "you're not really part of this group because your genitals are wrong but we'll let you be an ally I guess" nonsense is for feminists.

blueorange22_ · 2019-12-28T15:02:48+00:00

Firstly, thank you for your support!

There are many famous female MRAs- Cassie Jaye, Karen Straughan, Elizabeth Hobson,along with many users here. The MRM is growing because people are noticing what's happening not just to themselves, but to their fathers, sons, brothers, etc.

ShawshankRetention · 2019-12-28T15:30:31+00:00

I dont think we segregate men's right activist between full members and allies. Thats a feminist thing.

You can be a mra whether you are male or female. Allies are tenants of other ideologies that defend some of our points but have ultimately an other goal.

CcyCV · 2019-12-28T15:56:16+00:00

Hey there!! I’m a female, absolutely NOT a feminist, but up till now I’ve only shown my support of Men’s Rights in person to my husband and our friends. Making a statement in public, even if it’s online, is hard and scary. I’m still working up my courage for it

Secure-Lab · 2019-12-28T15:12:37+00:00

I'm a female. Roman Catholic, homemaker, wife and mother. I tend to have a healthier view on men, including male virility. I find most feminism to be absolute nonsense, and the rest of it well-meaning but misguided.

beebo_boop · 2019-12-28T15:55:57+00:00

It’s a lot harder for people to say you just want male attention when you start the conversation with objective information. Give them factual statistics, and your own observations of what has happened to men and boys in your life, and people are less likely to ignore what you have to say. I’ve found that my arguments are more effective at changing people’s perspectives when I don’t attach my own personal values to them.

Here’s an example from my life. If I say “Boys have a much harder time in school than girls do,” I’m going to get an immediate emotional reaction from the other person that isn’t very productive. But if I say “My son loves coding, but his school only has an after school program for girls and he’s so sad that he’s not allowed to do something he loves,” then that gets people to start thinking about things differently. It’s the same end result as if I were to share statistics about drop outs, AP classes, youth suicide, etc with the general, uninformed/misinformed public that I come across in day to day life.

My goal in advocating for certain things isn’t to induce an illogical emotional reaction in proponents of modern feminism, because I don’t find that to change minds. I’m ignored completely. My goal is to use facts to help a paradigm shift at an individual level. You can 100% be an advocate for men’s rights, no matter your sex/gender.

GlennQuagmireEsq · 2019-12-28T15:13:48+00:00

Thank you for your support.

BTW, male feminists are creepy little weasels. Never trust them.

2019-12-28T15:25:45+00:00

Appreciate the support!

Mens_rights_matter2 · 2019-12-28T15:56:18+00:00

Thanks for being open minded. Your experience of how people get ugly is proof that mens rights need to be worked on. Society somehow views anything men get as taking away from women and when women get anything it must be because they deserve it from you know, oppression throughout the entirety of history that they are being taught today in colleges. I was opened to this world after I was financially raped in a divorce from my abusive ex-wife. She threatened to call the cops on me and accuse me of assault for raising my voice to her once. I awakened to the fact that women know how to use the system that is stacked for them and against men. Having another female voice for men means so much. Please stand up for men when you see women ganging up on them online.

rbrockway · 2019-12-28T16:15:49+00:00

A person can be an MRA regardless of their gender. Let feminists have their 'allies'.

idk-oke · 2019-12-28T15:26:36+00:00

You can be an allie for men, you CAN’T be an allie for the MRM. Why? Because you can be part of it. It’s not because you’re a female MRA that you’re an allie. It means you ARE an MRA. Thanks for the support of the MRM and you are more than welcome here :)

Czar_of_Bananas · 2019-12-28T17:03:56+00:00

What makes you most unique and wonderful isn’t that your a female interested in male liberation (though that is a great thing to be!)— it’s that you are a person who is concerned about rights for all genders.

I don’t want to put words in your mouth, but it seems like you might take the view, uncommon on this sub, that there is valuable work to be improve the deal that society offers men and the one it offers women.

I’m all for people picking their causes— your “ally language” suggests to me that you’re aware you can’t personally spearhead every drive for human rights for everyone, and you’ve made the intelligent decision to try and educate & apply yourself within one or more problem areas that concern you (men’s rights).

This is great, and I’m excited for you! But please be wary of those would be educators who welcome you into the MRA community and promptly tell you that you a MRA can’t also be an ally to women.

I mention this not because you seem particularly at risk of developing a one sided viewpoint, but because your post has prompted a mirror version of the backlash that you experienced in your initial attempts to present as a male ally.

You said that people mocked you for just wanting male attention. People ITT didn’t need any prompting to declare that any male who professes a concern for women’s issues just wants to get laid.

The epitome of SJW bullshit is hatred: hatred of those who stand outside and supposedly against the movement, hatred of white people, males, women “complicit” with the patriarchy, etc.

The epitome of MRA bullshit is also hatred: hatred of feminism, hatred of men who argue on behalf of women AND men, etc.

The hate and blame we see in both are not the heart of the emancipatory movements called feminism and MRA— they are cancerous symptoms, outgrowths of the righteous indignation that kicked started a movement to improve life. We do that work of improving and changing most effectively when we are unburdened by hate and blame, when we take the position that everyone else is held back from being an ally only by ignorance.

TL;DR: MRAs will welcome you as a female ally, just like feminists would welcome me as a male ally. Both “sides” are less welcoming if you profess to be an ally of one without being an enemy of the other.

hectorgarabit · 2019-12-28T16:07:03+00:00

there are more feminist males than females who support mensrights

I think that's 100% true, just look at very basic numbers:

r/MensLib = 245k members

r/2xChromosome = 12.6m or more than 50 times bigger

So you will feel very lonely.

Hopefully, in the long run, this will change.

Modern feminism is mostly based on false facts, wage gap, 20% of girls will get raped in college and all kind of made up discrimination. On the other hand, there are some real issues, such as education for boys, imprisonment, suicide, addiction that are real and impact people's life. At some point the cognitive dissonance will be too strong to ignore.

Many people refuse to think, they just gobble up whatever the media tells them to think, they stay comfortably in their thought bubble. We can pop this bubble with well thought arguments, civil discourse and facts but we need to stand our ground. People have boy kids, father, brothers, they will slowly realize that there is something wrong. There is a silent crowd who agrees with us and this crowd is growing.

diedster · 2019-12-28T17:15:44+00:00

You became a human rights activist <3

doodlewastaken · 2019-12-28T17:20:52+00:00

I’m a female, and I believe in fighting for equality and not caring what gender, race or any other type of person we have to support in order to get there. Men and women both have places in which they are favored over the other, it isn’t good for anyone.

menstruatrix · 2019-12-28T16:11:53+00:00

Insults and "you just want male attention" are the regular response to any statement that's not sjw feminist propaganda.

Kind of ironic considering how much "sjw feminist prooaganda" has been written by sexually frustrated 'political lesbians' tryna get laid.

benderXX · 2019-12-28T16:03:23+00:00

Insane number of downvoting. Lazy feminist can’t work on their cause without attacking men’s legal, health, social rights.

Jenocyd · 2019-12-28T15:57:28+00:00

I’ve been a men’s right activist for a long time (honey badger?). I was the one that insisted we go to see the red pill that was showing near my birthday, as my birthday present.

2019-12-28T17:40:40+00:00

I honestly have no clue what the statistics look like but I do know we truly appreciate you!!!!

PlatinumBeetle · 2019-12-28T18:04:11+00:00

Funnily enough, if women support men's rights I tend to sexualize them less and respect their intellect more.

MRRamming · 2019-12-28T16:58:33+00:00

I'm always sceptical when I hear of women opposing feminism but if true I welcome your support

johnouden · 2019-12-28T21:40:34+00:00

The bottom line is men and women are allies. It should be obvious - we're one species! Any ideology that tries to make us enemies is evil, period. Whichever side it takes.

Thank you for your support! It's a really strong thing when people today still go for peace and understanding. There is still hope.

UnitysBlueTits · 2019-12-29T00:53:22+00:00

I get a ton of hate for bringing up male inequality.

Dillinjer882 · 2019-12-29T01:56:45+00:00

As a wiser man than I once said, "be the change you want to see".

Your supporting men seems to be a good example.

NZGuy2019 · 2019-12-29T04:10:50+00:00

Don’t change OP. Good on you!!

iainmf · 2019-12-29T04:14:39+00:00

There are no prerequisites. The only thing required to be a men's rights advocate is to advocate for men's rights.

IMO female MRAs are essential to the movement's success. People have a harder time dismissing women talking about men's issues.

ausgamer529 · 2019-12-28T16:03:13+00:00

Its nice to know there are members of the opposite sex out there who understand the plights of my gender.

Brandwein · 2019-12-28T15:31:49+00:00

I have nothing against women speaking out for mens problems, i welcome it, but i take the trend of "im female, am i allowed to be here" threads that are popping up pretty often with a bitter aftertaste. Maybe that's just me. So i can understand the "you just want attention" comments as a devils advocate. Just help the cause, no one cares about your identity.

VaultGuy1995 · 2019-12-28T17:14:56+00:00

I'm sure that, like feminists, there's some radical MRAs out there that just see women as the enemy and don't want anything to do with them. I would hope that most MRAs are more intelligent than that and accept logic and help from whoever is willing to bring it. We need all the support we can get since we're generally laughingstocks.

Buddhtistbrony · 2019-12-28T18:02:39+00:00

I hope more people think like you

trash62 · 2019-12-28T18:04:39+00:00

Please, PLEASE, PLEASE!

Start a subreddit or group or community for women such as yourself!

I would start /r/antisupreminism, a group that is for people who oppose feminism, but as a male, I don't think it would mean anything coming from me.

I get that feminism is a bit like a secret society and that if you want to fit in with your sisters, you had damn well better be a feminist.

There needs to be a community where women who oppose feminism (though not necessarily supporting men's rights either!) Can go to get acceptance and validation. The kinds of things they might otherwise get from feminism.

2019-12-28T19:20:59+00:00

i’m with you!! x

gamessuck00 · 2019-12-28T20:10:35+00:00

The hard part is people that are rational want and open and fair society that functions on reason. However, civil liberties movements have been hijacked by the insane.

As a result we have to plant flags on nearly every issue and if you do normal people things like compromise you are eaten alive by these insidious people hell bent on destruction.

Edit: I hope there is an end to this but who knows when these psychotic monsters will relent go back into the shadows.

2019-12-28T22:43:11+00:00

Thank you very much!

Support of women is crucial for us!

NordinTheLich · 2019-12-28T23:07:35+00:00

I've always believed that anyone can support a group that they don't belong to without needing an ulterior motive. I know some people who consider David Bowie a trans icon for his very effeminate demeanor and characters, as well as his song Rebel Rebel. Despite the fact he was never trans himself, people view him a trans icon. Likewise, despite you being a female, I am greatly appreciative of your support, OP.

To me, you're one of the bros.

merton1111 · 2019-12-28T23:48:42+00:00

I really hate the term ally. It implies discrimination from a group.

Imo you can be for mensrights regardless of who you are. We do fight for equality after all.

ScottishGamer1909 · 2019-12-28T23:52:55+00:00

My favourite one is you've been manipulated into thinking this way... The people who are against sexism to women are sexist to women because they disagree with them. Hilarious.

2019-12-29T07:06:04+00:00

me not being a man (or sexually attracted to men) doesn’t mean I shouldn’t treat them as equals

The-Prim-Reaper · 2019-12-29T11:05:13+00:00

I was inspired by the Honey Badgers to begin speaking out on behalf of men, and now I am one of them (though I've been away recently due to being very busy with a lot of life commitments). However, I'd been a supporter of men's rights and donated to men's csuses long before I started actually speaking and having my own YouTube channel. Now I use the proceeds from my channel to help fund local men's services (which, incidentally, I'm also a member of the provincial governance board for those services as well--strictly a voluntary role, but I do it because I think it's important).

What I'm saying is, you can really start anywhere. And don't worry about people saying things like that. First of all, you already know they're wrong and that you're doing a good thing. Second, you can just tell them "I'm not trying to get their attention, I'm trying to GIVE them attention. Maybe you ought to try it sometime."

camusdreams · 2019-12-28T17:13:29+00:00

Ironic reading through these comments. I remember the days when feminists all proclaimed that they’re for all equal rights for both men and women. Now it’s just “men are trash”.

caitlinkdotson · 2019-12-29T02:38:32+00:00

Girl I feel the same. I feel like men are just so bashed and trashed for no reason. Like if you're gonna judge someone do it because of their character and actions

EvilBeano · 2019-12-28T17:05:06+00:00

Idk why but something about the whole "ally", in this context, when it's in a political context, kinda annoys me. Radicals keep saying it and I guess because it sounds like we're fighting a war against the other side or something

silverdragun · 2019-12-28T17:57:45+00:00

"You just want male attention" lol I didnt think this went both ways, usually hear the opposite

oafsalot · 2019-12-28T18:00:39+00:00

My advice is to just pick your battles. You dont' have to always be an adamant speaker for mens rights, sometimes you can just nod and smile.

Thanks for speaking up though, we appriciate you.

omegaphallic · 2019-12-28T18:34:14+00:00

I just think of you as a fellow MRA, feminists have ruin the term allies for me by making it sound like bootlicker and I would never expect you to agree with me on that.

Potato_Boi69 · 2019-12-28T18:55:08+00:00

I joined link pill just to see what it’s like and it’s a whole bunch of men are terrible, REEEEEEEEEE PATRIARCHY, and men need women for everything. I posted something about international Men’s day and it was a whole bunch of “oh men asking us to fix their problems for them” and got a permaban for saying that I just posted it there so they would stop acting like they’re the only victims in society

Mythandros · 2019-12-28T19:04:52+00:00

We have plenty of female allies. All are welcome here so long as they keep an open mind. Your gender doesn't matter.

PlatinumBeetle · 2019-12-28T19:20:28+00:00

Im a female. Im definitely not a feminist, but I also wouldn’t consider myself a MRA, but I do try to be another voice for them. I think both sexes have struggles . But no one pays attention to men’s struggles and a lot of men I know are simply like “well that’s just how the world is, nothing I can do”.

I’m in STEM, so I’m around mainly guys, so I obviously haven’t received much backlash for simply believing guys should be heard. I think the best way of handling backlash is to just know the facts. Bring up male suicide rates, incarceration rates, etc. If they don’t listen to those then you cant change your mind. Just hope you change the mind of those on the fence.

nadjaproblem · 2019-12-28T19:25:01+00:00

I'm a female and I fully support the rights of men and women but I've actually found the mens rights supporters are actually A LOT nicer and more open. I've commented on things in different subs before that had nothing to do with any of this and some people will go find the subs I'm part of and call me things like a "mens rights fan girl". I follow the feminist subreddit too because I support men and women but I cant honestly call myself a feminist anymore because of how crazy it's gotten.

Calpernia09 · 2019-12-28T21:22:39+00:00

I'm 37 and a female. I have 4 kids, one of which is male. I would never call myself a feminist, but I support equality for all.

Mens rights need adjusting in many ways. I want to support whats right regardless of what anyone else says 😀😀

1LegendaryWombat · 2019-12-28T21:32:38+00:00

I wouldn't worry, From what I've seen, about a third of Men's rights, perhaps not activists per-say, but enthusiasts/supporters are women. The women I've seen on here are generally reasonable, even the ones that roll in and are like "Hey, wow, I was lied to about this sub! Whats going on?"

The people who jump on and insult you for a position you support(usually even before they listen to you as to the why) are generally people not worth talking to. Its what god me banned from Ask feminists, even though i didn't break any rules, and they refuse to answer as to my question of 'where?' that the rule they cite I did in fact break. Essentially it comes down to mainstream feminists will never listen to me, because they don't want to and it doesn't matter how correct I am. Anyone who typically does want real equality will recognize bullshit for what it is, especially since its not always obvious, you show them and they accept reality as reality.

As for feminist men supporting mens rights...maybe? I have no idea what the actual numbers would be. the feminist men sub is menslib, which is generally speaking, a waste of time, as they staunchly refuse that feminism is responsible for anything bad that has happened to men, evidence or otherwise.

chocoboat · 2019-12-29T07:50:21+00:00

Insults and "you just want male attention" are the regular response to any statement

Typical response from people who want to justify their hate. The same situation occurred for men supporting women's rights, whites supporting minority rights and opposing racism, etc. Their opponents have no logical argument, so they resort to personal insults and implying that there's something wrong with you if you care about "those people".

Daniel_R013 · 2019-12-29T09:19:03+00:00

Someone once compared my opinions to that of "anry whit men yelling about the border" Made Me sad. My entire family including me is Hispanic, and it had nothing to do with our mini debate.

Czar_of_Bananas · 2019-12-29T18:09:31+00:00

Thanks for appreciating my detailed reply, and for giving us all an occasion to think over these difficulties!

What fascinates and frustrates me to no end about this community (and certain feminist groups) is the readiness to encounter neutral descriptions of fact as value-laden assaults on their moral character.

I say that pregnancies are often unplanned, and that not all women are lucky enough to have a man who can or will (1) support them or (2) carry out the parenting himself...

... and I’m accused of demonizing men and called a fucking dumbass. It happens so fast it makes my head spin. it’s only some people but they’re very vocal about it.

It is the spitting image of any encounter with a toxic SJW (I emphasize “toxic” here because I don’t that everyone who thinks of themselves as fighting for social justice is toxic) who has no patience for men’s issues— I say that men are constrained and harmed by gendered expectations (sexism), that they disproportionately bear burdens such as workplace deaths, incarceration, suicide, etc...

... and I’m accused of actively advocating for the subjugation of women.

Both sides are shouting— “THEY already have it made! WE have the only real issues!” But the whole point of gender is that we experience privilege and hardship differently.

And it’s just so bloody fascinating that two ideological camps, WHO ARE BOTH CAMPAIGNING AGAINST SOCIAL STRUCTURES THAT UNEVENLY METE OUT SUFFERING BY MEANS OF GENDER could entirely miss the forest for “their species” of trees.

Gender is everybody’s problem, and it often works to nearly everyone’s disadvantage.

Jikira · 2019-12-29T19:55:27+00:00

I don’t consider myself a feminist, I am African Americans and not apart of that movement either. As an software engineer I first became aware of the men’s right movement as a volunteer mentoring boys and teaching them how to code. I don’t like to consider myself apart of any movement, because all people can suffer in our society. I just lurk on the social issue subs so that I am aware of what my fellow humans are going through. It helps me to have empathy and a better understanding. I go thru things as a black female especially in tech and other people go thru things. I just help who I can.

I would like to add that I am banned from multiple female oriented subs because of my vocal support and I was highly criticized for working with boys instead of girls. Because blah blah blah we need more girls in stem. When the dropout rate for boys is exponentially higher than the girls in my community.

FaerilyRowanwind · 2019-12-28T17:30:57+00:00

I’m a girl as well

codedbrake · 2019-12-28T18:28:41+00:00

Feminism is cancer

fessus_intellectiva · 2019-12-28T19:49:21+00:00

Thank you for your support. Please try to continue to calmly speak logic and reason into the narrative in spite of the opposition you receive. Have a great new year!

Jhalav · 2019-12-28T21:21:18+00:00

Do feminists and men's rights supporters have to be enemies? I believe I'm both. I believe in the equality of both sexes and in addressing problems facing the two. I think I'm a little bit too idealistic but oh well. Maybe I'll grow out of it and maybe I won't. I still believe you can support both sides.

(gen z female btw)

Aaod · 2019-12-28T22:59:23+00:00

Always felt strongly about discrimination of both sexes in society, but fck, as a female if I openly support men's rights, people get ugly.

A lot of us back in the day were originally feminists and you can guess how we became ex feminists. I am all for equality and that women should have equal rights etc, but at this point I view feminism as nothing more than a womans supremacist movement no different from the KKK or white power movement.

Niniane_ · 2019-12-29T03:33:49+00:00

There are lots of us lady MRAs 😊

italomala · 2019-12-28T15:58:10+00:00

We don't need no wamen

/s

SimpleBuffoon · 2019-12-28T18:58:55+00:00

Here's the thing: The majority of society wants to give support to both sexes.

Here's the problem: "feminists" lobbied against rights for men under a label meant for equality.

Here's where we're at: MRAs exist, feminists exist, MRAs do not intrinsically hate feminists, unless they're the type to screech "patriarchy!" whenever a problem comes up, but feminists hate MRAs because we are beginning to get a say and a voice toward fixing our problems rather than fucking them right up.

ausgamer529 · 2019-12-28T20:40:15+00:00

Edit: Holy! Thanks for the reward, really wasn't expecting to get one(my first), but man, thanks for the support🌟

le sigh.

I wish reddit was more mature/serious

paracog · 2019-12-28T21:49:35+00:00

Some of the most eloquent voices in the conversation about men's rights are from wise and fair women, and in some cases they are able to more forthrightly state the case than men will, given that men are raised not to complain. I'm thinking of women such as Christina Hoff Sommers, Karen Straughan, Dr. Helen Smith, Cassie Jaye, and others. Their voices are harder to dismiss than male men's rights leaders.

meanbunny96 · 2019-12-28T22:16:11+00:00

Feminists are marxist's and use the same indoctrination tactics to gain support and so have more. The MRA promotes inequality experienced by men as father's or workers in courts. We have no political agenda beyond what we openly say. That makes it less attractive.

Halafax · 2019-12-28T22:46:36+00:00

No “allies”, that’s a feminist thing. You can be an Men’s right advocate/activist.

Feel free to be in favor of human rights. Men are human, despite claims to the contrary.

ibettershutupagain · 2019-12-28T23:36:16+00:00

Female Egalitarian here with you

ausgamer529 · 2019-12-28T20:22:38+00:00

I’m a woman who is not a feminist. I consider myself anti feminist :)

romulusnr · 2019-12-28T21:56:12+00:00

The irony there is that if men are tolerating the excessive anti-male segments of feminism, it's only because they think by doing so they will get some. And this is encouraged with the vitriol against MGTOWs and others who resist that foolishness.

I mean if you're dependent on that sort of relationship, it's not acceptance, it's coercion.

Mirawenya · 2019-12-29T13:19:26+00:00

To me it never mattered much if it was a men's right or women's right matter. What mattered was if I thought something was indbalanced and needed attention. Sometimes that means supporting women, sometimes that means supporting men.

I think the problem starts when you only support one side's issues and not the other.

dildo_cannon_fodder · 2019-12-29T00:01:49+00:00

Yo!! woman MRA here. and i totally get what you're coming from. like about a month ago some nutjob feminist personally messaged me asking why i hate feminism. Two times i politely gave that it my answer and it wouldn't leave it at that. so the 3rd time it rudely asked me why, i utterly opened a massive can of worms and basically wrote a short essay on why i hated feminism, and even posted resources from credited research to the facts i was spitting.

rossraskolnikov · 2019-12-29T09:56:05+00:00

Okay, was it a guy or a woman who gave her Gold? Because if it was a guy, Jesus fucking Christ.

owlsareclever · 2019-12-28T19:23:08+00:00

I regard myself as a feminist (not a radical feminist). I follow both this sub and r/feminism and am interested by the topics and viewpoints that are posted there, but if I’m honest I find both of the groups don’t quite fit with my way of thinking. Put simply I don’t like the blaming of the opposite gender that tends to dominate each sub, and which feels kinda bitter.

To me, both men and women face hardships; whilst they are entirely different, I don’t think they benefit from being compared. I also don’t think it’s any one person or gender’s fault. The pain one gender endures isn’t the result of the other gender, but of society and history. As a woman I don’t blame all men for things that I think suck, and I believe vice versa should also be the case. I care massively about men and women, and I think it’s possible to defend the rights of both and see where there is injustice on both sides.

Im_Just_Sayin_Bro · 2019-12-28T19:41:13+00:00

No. You're never going to be my ally. You're part of the problem.

Edit: She is

Leagueofbabies · 2019-12-28T22:41:43+00:00

If women really want to help men, which would also positively affect them, then they have to help us get infant circumcision banned in America. They also need to help fund Foregen so they can fix our damaged penis. Maybe then men would be far more polite, instead of angry at the country. I know I dislike women more because I was mutilated as a child.

2019-12-29T00:33:32+00:00

No thanks.

Title	Female allies?
Author	meanbunny96
Upvotes	1547
Comments	227
Date	December 28, 2019 2:45 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/egri5u/female_allies/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/female-allies.862138 https://theredarchive.com/post/862138

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