Smh

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14 year olds who rape by threat of knife are treated as criminals. Clearly, we can consider a 14 year old a rapist. So why is it not rape if its a 14 year old having sex with another 14 year old? In many states, it actually IS rape if this happens because the states have no R&J law.

Also because the law defines what she did as rape.

As above, that therefore means you agree with the law claiming 14 on 14 is rape, in states where there is no R&J exception. IF you disagree, you're implicitly saying one of two things: either you believe the law is correct when you have subjectively decided it, or that the law doesnt' NECESSARILY make something true.

If you believe 14 on 14 isn't rape while the law claims it is, then those are your two options. ANd if something the law states isn't NECESSARILY true, then you can't hide your reasoning behind "its rape because the law says so". If you believe that the law is wrong when it comes to two 14 year olds, then you can't say "its rape because the law says so" because you seem capable of making your own determination of when rape actually occurs.

We used to have black people as property. Because the law said they were property, did that prove black people were property? The fact those laws were abolished says people found the law to be in error.

If one law can be in error, then how can you be so sure here?

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No it’s not rape for a 14 year old to blow another, at least in the eyes of the general public.

Its still rape by law in most places. Even the UK.

Reason for this is because they are both adolescent and unable to make the best decisions. Adolescence is notable for having hormones and lack of maturity that make us do stupid things.

A 14 year old convincing other teens to do drugs or steal is considered to be motivating others and is guilty.

A 14 year old who uses a knife to commit rape or murder is guilty.

By these two standards, we recognize that 14 year olds can be guilty of harm to others.

Therefore, sex against a 14 year old, being inherently harmful, should be, and often is, treated as the agent/provocateur 14 year old as the guilty party, raping/molesting the other.

Therefore, what she did is, or should be, considered rape, because she, an adult capable of making a mature and informed decision of a sexual nature, took advantage of him, a hormone addled adolescent without the capability of making a mature and informed decision of a sexual nature

Hormones are still a problem past 18. Brain development doesnt finish until the 40's. In fact, hormones actually drive women HARDER when they hit around 30. Their libido is on the same level as a 16 year old male, comparatively, a 40 year old male's libido as is low as a 16 year old female.

its a "one last chance to bear children" drive, but it drives them harder. And again, the brain isnt mature until the 40's.

a hormone addled adolescent without the capability of making a mature and informed decision of a sexual nature, by convincing an adolescent beneath the age of consent, to allow her to blow him.

a 14 year old convincing another 14 year old to blow them is convincing someone beneath age of consent and unable to make mature, informed decisions to have sex acts.

if the concept is "anyone who convinces people to make sex decisions when they're young and uninformed is criminal", then 14 year olds would also be criminal.

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At the risk of being featured on r/ihavesex,

As a band and rotc nerd with no friends in highschool, I still got some head in the MTG club. It's everywhere, and you can't stop it no matter how hard you try.

Hell my first sexual experience was at 12, when my friend down the block asked to see what a penis is and started playing with it when I obliged.

It's unavoidable, and you pretending it won't happen is more dangerous than preparing for it happening, you're one of those parents that doesn't make condoms available to their teen and is SHOCKED when they get a girl pregnant. Kinda your fuckin fault too there superdad.

Your 14 year old son is a rape victim and that should never be made light of (the bitch should've done prison time), but don't pretend he's an innocent angel that isn't looking for nookie from his 14 year old gf, that's the most detached from reality as I've ever seen someone.

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Okay

I never presented a law, I was saying that it is rape when one has more power over the other due to age and position/job.

Alright, is it rape for a poor 18 year old to have sex with a rich 40 year old who's a politician?

No because they are BOTH old enough to consent.

Okay, NOW we're talking bout law.

So you do agree that one 14 year old is molesting the other?

They could be, it depends on if they both consent

Bzzt. Neither can consent as a 'consentee', as in, a person who 'assents' to a behavior they are being propositioned with.

Therefore the one enacting sexual behavior and requesting the consent of the other cannot gain their consent, and a 14 year old is molesting another 14 year old.

You just used AOC to defend why 18 and 40 isn't rape, when previously you had claimed a 14 year old can consent.

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Because once you reach adulthood you're able to decide for yourself when to put yourself in that position. A child (in most cases) can not have a position of power over another. The reason kids cant have sex with adults is because the kids are dumb and the adult is smart basically. The adult can manipulate and use the kid because they're impressionable. Kids are built to be impressionable that's why they learn faster than adults. Statutory rape laws are all about tak ik ng that into account. It's to make sure that no adult with a fully formed brain can exploit a minor. Two minors having consensual sex is not exploitative. It's just hormones and curiosity and that's how it should be. Those hormones are there for a reason. If the kid needs sexual guidance they can consult their parents. But a 9th grader getting head from his first gf after school isn't rape.

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I honestly think you are not getting the argument because your an Intel and your mad at women.

Im mad at women which is why I dont understand how a minor can consent to sex? That makes zero sense.

However most children can not manipulate or be in a power position over another kid.

Thats incorrect.

https://rewire.news/article/2013/10/09/new-study-finds-alarming-rate-of-sexual-coercion-among-teens-young-adults/

As an adult your matured and thus understand those things. However a child doesnt and it's why they have age laws regarding to sex.

You just said they can consent and you're also switching between minor and child. Are minor and child equivalent? Why are you using different terms repeatedly? You haven't explained why a minor can consent to a minor and not an adult. If anything, they should be unable to consent to anyone due to their vulnerability.

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https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/720uay/til_jerry_seinfeld_dated_a_17yearold_girl_when_he/

Letting "what is the law?" define your morality is the fourth stage in Lawrence Kohlberg's stages of moral development. If a person is going to grow beyond that stage they tend to do so as a teenager. Many people reach adulthood and live the rest of their lives never getting past this stage.

I just looked up Rob Lowe's story.

He slept with a 16-year-old he met in a nightclub when he was 24. I don't really care.

IIRC some 50-something actor married a 16-year-old girl a few years ago, and Reddit did roast him alive.

But he wasn't nearly as popular as Seinfeld.

Edit: LOL he was the dude that played freaking Horace on Lost. Horace was a bozo.

Julia Louis-Dreyfus in an interview:

“No, it didn’t make me cringe,” she says. “When he was in that relationship, it was a happy one for him. And she’s a terribly nice person, so I was in favor of it. Come on — who cares? There wasn’t anything wrong with it. I thought it was great. Anyway, they’re not dating anymore, if that gives other people any happiness."

Guitar god Jimmy Page (Led Zepplin) dated Lori Maddox when she was age 14.

https://metrouk2.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/gettyimages-74273396.jpg

Jerry Lee Lewis married his 13-year-old first cousin.

Bill Wyman started dating Mandy Smith when he was 44 and she was 13, had sex with her when she was 14 and married her at 18.

Kinda legal at the time because although the age of consent was 16, a parent or guardian could give consent once the kid was 13. (Don't know if that is still the case.) Her being allowed to stay out all night on the regular meant that she had implied parental consent to fuck whoever she wanted.

People aren't making this as big of a deal as I thought. Think about it; 17 is still in high school, still figuring out how the world works. Seinfeld at the time was in the middle of his career; he had a MAJOR level of power over her. Dating somebody under 18 isn't okay just because you're famous.

Reminds me of the time my 32 year old coworker slept with a 17 year old coworker while away on a training trip.

This was also before he slept with my girlfriend.

Real stand-up gentleman.

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No, I don't. It's a question of social norms and context. In Germany and a lot of other European countries, sex is treated as a normal thing; it's not rare to see nudity on TV during daytime, and sex-ed is really good and part of the mandatory curriculum afaik. Therefore, 14 year olds have already been exposed to it, told it is a normal thing and not something to be ashamed of, and aren't traumatised or hurt when it happens to them. Whereas in the US, kids are taught that sex is wrong, amoral, gross and just bad in general, and get very little or low-quality sex-ed. Of course a lot get over it, and there has been some progress in the past decade, but the general concept is the same.

Also, fun fact: Germany is actually the perfect example of this. Because if a 21-or-older person abuses the teen's lack of capacity for sexual self-determination, or their position of authority due to age, they can be jailed under the same terms as child rape.

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[–]ErasablePotato1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

just like 18 and 40

Yep, exactly like that. If someone uses their age to coerce a younger person into intercourse, that's rape. Key word: coerce. As well as that, there's the fact that it's a teacher, which gives additional authority.

What constitutes student authority?

Picked the wrong words there, sorry, not a native speaker. What I meant to say is that at age 17, most people wouldn't be coerced into sex simply because a teacher told them to. They know what they can refuse. Blackmail on the other hand, is possible regardless of age and depends only on the student-teacher power dynamic.

Blackmail isn't blackmail when it isn't used to apply pressure

Now you're just being pedantic. You know full well that I meant to say "but that's blackmail if it's used to apply pressure to get the student to do something". I just omitted it because I thought that, with the context of this conversation, it would be obvious. I'm done, you're clearly not interested in actually changing your viewpoint, so there's no purpose to this conversation anymore.

[–]mwobuddy0 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Yep, exactly like that. If someone uses their age to coerce a younger person into intercourse, that's rape. Key word: coerce. As well as that, there's the fact that it's a teacher, which gives additional authority.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2013/10/08/230428115/many-teens-admit-to-coercing-others-into-sex

Then this kind of coercion is not rape? If two people are 20 and one coerces the other, its not rape?

If someone uses their age to coerce a younger person into intercourse, that's rape.

As long as there's no age being leveraged, its not rape?

What I meant to say is that at age 17, most people wouldn't be coerced into sex simply because a teacher told them to.

What about a 17 year old coerced into sex by another 17 year old? What about a 19 year old coerced by a teacher/boss using similar means?

Do you make a distinction between coercion and blackmail?

Saying "I love you" to receive sex is considered coercion, for instance, when the speaker is lying. But it is not an illegal form of coercion.

I'm done, you're clearly not interested in actually changing your viewpoint, so there's no purpose to this conversation anymore.

It seems like you've made the implicit argument that "coercion isn't rape" as long as there is no age difference. Is this your premise?

[–]ErasablePotato1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Alright, I know I said I'm done but now you're just trying to project your rapey-ness onto me.

Then this kind of coercion is not rape? If two people are 20 and one coerces the other, its not rape?

Not sure where you got the "not rape" part from. I didn't say anything about same-age rape. Coercion is rape, in the vast majority of cases (except for extreme edge cases like your "I love you" example). Work on your reading comprehension, buddy.

What about a 17 year old coerced into sex by another 17 year old?

Rape.

What about a 19 year old coerced by a teacher/boss using similar means?

Rape via authority abuse. Still rape.

Do you make a distinction between coercion and blackmail?

Yes. Blackmail is a method of coercion (not necessarily sexual), but not all coercion is blackmail.

It seems like you've made the implicit argument that "coercion isn't rape" as long as there is no age difference. Is this your premise?

Again, reading comprehension, bub. Work on it. I said that "If someone uses their age to coerce a younger person into sex, that's rape". I even drew your attention to the word "coerce", which is the key here, not the age part. Coercion is rape. I was just trying to make the point that age can be a tool used in coercion.

[–]mwobuddy1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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One is completely normal and happens to most 14 year olds,

Argument by nature fallacy vis a vis "its completely normal". Completely normal or accepted socially does not make something right.

Lol I can't tell if you're a troll or no

Beginning with a poison the well/ad hominem is the first sign of a bad faith argument.

the other is a person in a position of power that can manipulate the other into doing things that they might not normally want to do, since they are either intimidated by the position of power, or are not able to understand the consequences that can come from their actions.

https://rewire.news/article/2013/10/09/new-study-finds-alarming-rate-of-sexual-coercion-among-teens-young-adults/

Turns out you dont have to be an adult to coerce your boyfriend/girlfriend into sex. Another argument of your doesnt hold up.

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I completely agree with you. I don't have a horse in this race from the viewpoint of being an American man. I'm mostly interested in the democratic aspects of it, and how the rhetoric unfolds.

The problem I see here is that there's many instances of men trying to speak out in reasonable ways, but receiving backlash for it. A notable case being James Damore. So I believe these echo chambers arise, because this is one way for men to safely express themselves, but it's hard to mobilize in the current environment. As you may know, there's a problem with people perceiving Jordan Peterson as a misogynist and alt-right winger due to his portrayal by some of the people that disgree with him, and in the media.

But that's part of the issue in the first place. It's ironic that there exist people prone to calling other people like Jordan fascists while at the same time introducing compelled speech. So I see Jordan as a proponent of reestablishing the arena for a democratic discourse, which seems to be what's really needed right now. Even as much as he tries to further the idea of learning through debating and talking to people, I'd say he at times fails to follow his own principles. For example, I've never seen him actually take his opponent's argument, and make it stronger, which is something he has advocated in his own lectures, such as in long-term relationships, where a person has trouble expressing an otherwise reasonable argument to their partner.

However, that just goes to show in some way, how hard it is to have a fair and logical debate. I actually think he's good for the most part at sticking with logos and ethos(mostly ethos in the sense that he has researched a lot of the topics that he speaks about for many years) in debates cluttered with appeal to emotions, ad hominem attacks or straw men.

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You'd have to make the assumption that I was pushing a blank state ideal. When in reality, just because you compare males and females, doesn't mean tabula rasa has anything to do with it. Again, you'd need to assume that the other person subscribes to that idea first, and that they don't assume a biological determinism model.

Just because you compare males and females, doesn't mean you can't be a blank slate propenent, a biological type of constructionism, or a mix of both. It is completely irrelevant here. You are using it in a very vague way, when it has a very specific definition.

Sorry duder, but you're just wrong on this one. You don't know which way I lean in that regard, and therefor, can't say for certain if I'm making a tabula rasa type of argument. I wasn't btw...

This has more to do with cultural norms and how society views this topic. Again, tabula rasa has nothing at all to do with it, plain and simple. In fact, I personally think biology has more to do with it. Mainly, because I am a biologist. So, what do I know about this stuff anyways... Lol

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When you are 14 you have not fully developed physically or mentally. Maybe during early human times people had sex at 14 years old, but also during early human times people owned slaves, people raped each other all the time, bestiality and pedophilia were common. Should we allow those things to happen also? We are not living in a time where the life expectancy of a human is 20 years old. We are not living in pre-historic times. We are living in a modern society where kids should not be having sex-relations with adults. Even if a 14 year old is mature enough to have sex with an adult, why is it such a big deal that an adult would have to wait till the kid turns 18 before engaging in sex with them? What is the big deal with having to wait till someone turns 18? There are billions of people in the world who are over the age of 18. You can fuck them, but kids are off limits. Period.

[–]npr_is_pravda 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

My argument is that it is not as traumatizing for the 14 year old to have sex with his teacher as people are making it out to be. Should the age of consent be 18? That is reasonable to me. Is having sex with someone under the age of consent illegal and unethical? Yes. But people really need to shut the fuck up about this being a crime against humanity. The kid got blown by his teacher. He will most likely survive this, because sex at that age is not unnatural, just illegal at the moment. The age of consent could be upped to 25 in a hundred years and the 18 year olds being "raped" will also survive the experience, because humans have a hundred thousand years behind them. Societal norms changing only recently only makes for perceived trauma and not actual harm. This would all be simple to grasp for someone with the tiniest bit of understanding of evolutionary biology.

[–]mwobuddy -3 points-2 points-1 points 7 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

When you are 14 you have not fully developed physically or mentally. Maybe during early human times people had sex at 14 years old, but also during early human times people owned slaves, people raped each other all the time, bestiality and pedophilia were common. Should we allow those things to happen also? We are not living in a time where the life expectancy of a human is 20 years old. We are not living in pre-historic times. We are living in a modern society where kids should not be having sex-relations with adults. Even if a 14 year old is mature enough to have sex with an adult, why is it such a big deal that an adult would have to wait till the kid turns 18 before engaging in sex with them? What is the big deal with having to wait till someone turns 18? There are billions of people in the world who are over the age of 18. You can fuck them, but kids are off limits. Period.

This entire argument is bad. Its just as bad as saying "hey they did this in the past, so its right". you're saying "we don't do this now, so its right". Its not a valid form of argument.

What is the big deal with having to wait till someone turns 18? There are billions of people in the world who are over the age of 18. You can fuck them, but kids are off limits. Period.

And you're actually wrong here. Most of the world, and most of the U.S., has an age of consent of 16, so ostensibly most adults could 'fuck kids', if you're making a bright line distinction of kid vs adult at 17 vs 18. In that case, seems like a lot of human rights violations are possible in 'fucking kids'.

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[–]WikiTextBot 7 points8 points9 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Age of consent

The age of consent is the age below which a minor is considered to be legally incompetent to consent to sexual acts. Consequently, an adult who engages in sexual activity with a minor younger than the age of consent cannot claim that the sexual activity was consensual, and such sexual activity may be considered statutory rape. The person below the minimum age is regarded as the victim and his or her sex partner is regarded as the offender, unless both are underage. The purpose of setting an age of consent is to protect an underage person from sexual advances.

Ages of consent in the United States

In the United States, age of consent laws regarding sexual activity are made at the state level. There are several federal statutes related to protecting minors from sexual predators, but laws regarding specific age requirements for sexual consent are left to individual states, territories, and the District of Columbia. Depending on the jurisdiction, legal age of consent ranges from 16 to 18 years old. In some places, civil and criminal laws within the same state conflict with each other.

[–]TheMythof_Feminism -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]berserkerrage 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

"Rape by etymological hard-lock definition means force and violence. A breach of age restrictive protocol does not qualify. The grossly misnamed "Statutory rape" is not actual rape unless the target is 12 or younger, in which case I will concede that point."

Your claim.

1) If the hard rock definition of rape is violence and force, then you are claiming that is the only way a rape occurs. Those links clearly reference exceptions that have zero to do with violence and force. So, yes you either didn't read anything or you don't understand it. You're wrong here try again.

2) Your claim regarding statutory rape not being rape is downright proven wrong, but you seem to have only quoted part of what I said to misrepresent my argument. Based on the definition of statutory rape and the age of consent links, this situation OP is referencing is rape. You claim it is not. You are wrong try again.

3) Tabula Rasa is not in play here and you clearly have zero idea what it means as a philosophical belief.

4) I did refute you with evidence. You have provided an opinion with no evidence. In addition, you employed ad hominem fallacy. Present an actual argument with evidence or concede the point.

tl;dr: You're wrong try again.

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A pedophile has sex with pre pubescant children. Women would not get away with that.

Having sex with a young teenager is more tolerated in our society because our society is made up of people who used to be young teenagers who were either having sex or wanting to have sex. Boys (on average) tend to want to have sex at a younger age. Girls (on average) tend to the more selective and are more likely to wait until they either know their partner more or they are older. This is why we have a "double standard" when a girl Vs a guy is a "victim"... We assume that if a girl has sex with an older man she must have been coerced (and likely would not have the physical strength to resist if she wanted to), but if a guy has sex with an older women he got super lucky. Victim is in quotes because its up to the person to decide if they are a victim or not, not for you to decide.

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Okay. Female having sex with an underage male is worse, and this is why: With a male teacher and female student, the teacher takes advantage of the moment. The girl is attracted to him and he takes advantage of that. Which is also bad. I don't condone sex between teacher and student regardless of genders. With a female teacher and male student, the female teacher creates the moment. She plots how to get into his life, often times the parents trust her enough to let their child be with her outside school hours. The female teacher pretends to have the boys best interest in mind and manipulates the situation so it appears that way. Many of the female teachers have also provided drugs and alcohol, possession of which adds to the boys ego. The female teacher builds up the student, manipulating him to believe he is more mature and cool than what he really is. When anyone finds out and it hits the fan, he gets blamed for what happened. He is just a pawn to her sexual game. That is wrong and why it is worse. One is taking advantage of the situation, the other is creating the situation to get what you want. Crime of opportunity vs. premeditated crime

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If anything, a young, teenage boy is less sexually mature than a girl of the same age: girls hit puberty on average two years earlier. Laws are sometimes dumb and we have to arbitrarily draw the line somewhere. 14, 16 or 18, but somewhere we draw the line.

There could be serious consequences of having sex: STDs, unwanted pregnancy, heartbreak, suicide etc. We make having sex with underage boys and girls illegal not because they are not biologically ready for it but because they are not mentally and emotionally ready for it. Just like most kids could physically drive a car at 14 but we don't let them.

Also, she was in a position trust and power. If I had a kid I'd prefer to think that he's safe from STDs and emotional and physical abuse/manipulation--at least from his teachers.

I'm sure you'd be outraged if a woman did this to a 9 year old boy, right? Where would you draw the line? 6 years old? Or are you OK with some fucked up shit done to infants as long as the perp is a woman and the victim is a boy? How far are you willing to go to whitewash pedophilia?

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The only "tabula rasa" I know of is John Locke's idea of the mind being a "blank slate" at birth. Saying you have no innate responses or knowledge, that it is all learned after birth.

So my guess is he's saying that men and women are different from birth. On top of that we grow up and act differently.

That is indeed the meaning of the tabula rasa mythology, or at least a reasonable representation.

It is the blank slate hypothesis originally posited by John Locke but adopted by communist propagandists. The idea being that all human thoughts and actions are purely the result of socialization and that there are no differences between humans at all. In this case people that argue that men and women are interchangeable are acolytes of the tabula rasa mythology.

Men and women are not the same, and to argue otherwise is to admit to suffering hardcore delusions.

Thus making sexual acts with adolescents "meh" one way and completely wrong the other.

I never argued anything remotely resembling that, but retards/incredibly stupid people are desperately trying to strawman my argument into that....

[–]The_Best_01 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Kuramo 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Please then enlighten us. Why raping boys are less condemnable than a girl? Do you know what you're laying on the table?

Would you have to be raped as 13 y/o boy by an adult woman?

Your "tabula rasa myth phallacy" bullshit doesn't work here. Men and women are humans, we both feel and we both have the same damn value. For God's sake, it shouldn't be that hard to understand something like that. Furthermore, this happened in NY, where legal consent age is 17. The teen was 14. It's statutory rape.

Yeah, some male teens hold positive views about having a sexial relationship with adult women, but it's obvious peer pressure and misandric cultural factors in action. Men are expected to shut up, not to talk about their feelings, to see themselves as disposable stuff. The same things that led men to suicide more than women nowadays or not to get medical aid early. Damnit! Wake up.

"but you're projecting yourself again" Don't dare to throw me that ad hominem crap to me. And if that's the matter, I could say it's someone's sexual frustration where his paraphilia involving S&M and statutory rape, and and a mad sex drive are disguised as an faux argument. Better keep your sexual fantasies to yourself

Aprovechando que también hablas español , te lo voy a decir solo 1 vez: Estas psicologicamente mal. No me importa bloquearte, y no me importa si tu te tomas la molestia de hacerlo primero, asi postees en el otro sub, que de todos modos ni lo haces y solo te veo aqui con tus chaquetas mentales pidiendo que cometan estupro contra adolescentes varones.

[–]The_Best_01 -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[+]pubies -12 points-11 points-10 points 7 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

I know this opinion doesn't go over well here, but karma hits don't bother me.

I also think many here are playing along with the stupid identity game that we've been forced to play and holding the left to their own rules. I know i am guilty myself, and I'm not a bit ashamed. But I also think we can, or should, be more honest among ourselves.

Obviously, any two crimes are not identical. Each has unique perpetrators, victims, and circumstances. Beyond that, a sex crime perpetrated by man just is different from a sex crime perpetrated by a woman.

There is a different dynamic between men and women in ALL interactions, including crimes. Women ARE physically more vulnerable to men than vice versa. These are facts, it's okay to admit them.

Before the rebuttals begin, note that I have not made any statements or assertions regarding which is worse, just that they are not the exact same thing. Also, I know little more about this specific case than what the headline says, I am not in any way defending this woman or her stern scolding.

[–]Raenryong 8 points9 points10 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

The question is: where does it stop?

Women are generally weaker than men, physically. Women typically have more powerful socially unless you're looking at the upper echelon of society. Must we factor in the height and weight differentials of the perpetrators too, as they contribute to physical power? Should we sentence a short man less harshly than a tall one? A skinny woman less harshly than a fat one?

If you stab a muscular/fat person, you are likely to cause less damage than to a weak/skinny person. Therefore, should we give lesser sentences to someone who goes after "stronger prey"?

The question here is accountability. Being physically weaker should not shield you from consequences. If I attack a much larger man, this shouldn't expunge my guilt nor mitigate my offence.

In either case, with male or female teachers, they have a significant maturity and social level of power over you, as well as direct authority. An adult woman may well be stronger than a 14-year-old boy, too, if we want to go down the physical route. And if we truly want to differentiate the genders, who's to say the female teacher couldn't reverse the situation and claim the male student tried to molest her if he turned down her advances? That's something a woman can pull off far more easily than a man.

tl;dr: when you start going down this path, it is not only complex but also, in my opinion, highlights absurdities. Equality requires equal treatment under the law.

[+]pubies -7 points-6 points-5 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Again, I'm not arguing in favor of shielding anyone from consequences. Regarding accountability in this particular case, it involves a person in a position of authority and a minor. I belive those are both things that should significantly increase the severity of the punishment.

If you stab a muscular/fat person, you are likely to cause less damage than to a weak/skinny person.

Yeah, that sounds true and I don't doubt it, but that is not how we generally judge the egregiousness of a crime. I am not well versed in how criminal courts function, but it seems that damages are a significant factor in determining a sentence. There's no difference between murdering a fat and a skinny person. There is a difference between stabbing an obese person in the fat folds and piercing a skinny person through the liver and pancreas. Just like there's a difference between giving someone a bloody nose and beating them into a coma. Perhaps sex crimes should use a similar approach, and rely more on facts and victim impact than victim identity.

Therefore, should we give lesser sentences to someone who goes after "stronger prey"? We kind of do already with "hate crimes", though that's a whole other can of worms. We also do this with crimes against children, disabled people, vulnerable adults, etc.

The question here is accountability. Being physically weaker should not shield you from consequences. If I attack a much larger man, this shouldn't expunge my guilt nor mitigate my offence.

I agree.

[+]TheMythof_Feminism -10 points-9 points-8 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Obviously, any two crimes are not identical. Each has unique perpetrators, victims, and circumstances. Beyond that, a sex crime perpetrated by man just is different from a sex crime perpetrated by a woman.

Absolutely. I have zero contention with that.

My point was other people want to pretend it's the same. That there's no context to be considered whatsoever, it's just completely interchangeable because men and women are completely interchangeable.... at least that's what the tabula rasa loonies argue....

Before the rebuttles begin, note that I have not made any statements or assertions regarding which is worse, just that they are not the exact same thing.

Oh don't you worry, you'll get plenty of responses claiming you did exactly what you are specifically stating you didn't do... even the fact that you felt it necessary to clarify that, tells me that you know that people won't care and will pretend you did it anyway...

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Comments

ikwaliti

Title	Smh
Author	kaichick21
Upvotes	1733
Comments	460
Date	August 4, 2018 6:50 PM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/94lg3u/smh/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/smh.896740 https://theredarchive.com/post/896740