You got denied!

16CLeclerc · 2021-03-13T14:26:06+00:00

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There is very little time for reflection and real questioning why our traditional social customs are what they are. Women and weak men never truly ask why men have long been pressured to be strong and stoically endure any physical or emotional hardship, they just assume it is malicious in nature. They blindly assume it’s because they hate men, hate women, and are simply stupid. They assume that because THEY live in what would in any other era be considered extreme, near divine luxury, that there is no need for mental or physical strength anymore.

They take totally for granted that farming, building of homes, power lines, management of waste and sewage, physical security in police and military jobs, and so much more are totally necessary but also deeply stressful, uncomfortable, and largely unenjoyable. But if men are raised to be as emotional as possible they are unknowingly raised to steer clear of these all too necessary, but tragically thankless jobs.

To tell men to abandon stoicism and strength in favor of crying and showing (or even embracing) weakness is the modern version of “let them eat cake.” It’s a phrase that can only come from the most spoiled, out of touch people who are totally disconnected from how anything outside their privileged bubble actually works.

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Disagree. Your broad classification of those jobs being inherently negative and unwanted, is societal bias and one of main problems.

The "stoicism" you describe is a symptom of the broader issue of wage stagnation and inflation when people are constantly working jobs they hate just to make ends meet. It has nothing to do with baseline emotionality. Men are hardwired to gather resources (money and respect) by taking higher risks. If wages went up overall (with accompanying respect), then more people would be able to choose work they enjoy, which often includes those dirty jobs.

People enjoy meaningful work, regardless of difficulty. It's just that appropriate compensation and respect from society need to be present in order for jobs to be filled. If a plumber likes their job and helping people, but hates that no one is willing to shake their hand and constant lowballing, then he may go for a different job.

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I know for a fact those stores and towns all made less money combined than a single popular porn site today. Literally not even comparable.

This is true for nearly every industry that's mainstream today and there's no doubt that porn is more popular. My point is people have always been that way, these markets exists and have always existed for this reason.

If think the internet isn't changing human behaviour you're beyond naive. If you agree its changing behaviour but somehow think sexual behaviour is excluded, you're only slightly less naive.

The internet is obviously changing the landscape, but pretending were we're somehow better or worse before the internet is ridiculous.

We invented guns, wars, concentration camps, slaves, sex workers, religion, the fucking atom bomb and a giant assortment of fucked up shit on massive scales well before the internet ever existed.

My point is the internet may be changing it, but mostly it's a viewing glass into how fucked up we always were. We are and always have been selfish, lying, horny assholes who don't care for anyone not in our club.

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Not just birth control. Women entered the workforce en masse. Birth control freed them from their biology but it just made them into weaker men.

Before, most women, like most men, had to work. But it was generally low skilled labour. The industrial revolution changed education such that high school prepared you for a job in a company. Post WWII Boomer prosperity allowed men with low skills to enter a drastically changing industry because there were more jobs than people on hand to work (thanks to people dying in two world wars).

This was great for workers. The cost of living was low so salaries were high by comparison. The implication of technology was that it would make everything from cars to TVs cheaper. America was guaranteed its dominance in a future of technological innovation! More jobs. Greater profit. And after 40 years of good old fashioned hard work, you can retire in your middle class, white picket fence home.

Capitalism had a different plan. Women had a taste of work. The Rockefeller Foundation bankrolled feminism to increase the labour supply. Why else would a capitalist family fund a movement founded in Marxism? The only way they could do this was to convince women that a life at home, away from the soul sucking drudgery of work, was somehow bad. That men were conspiring to keep them from their true potential. That "Arbeit Macht Frei" - work makes you free!

Over the years, feminism made its way into work, academia, the media and politics. It had to maintain the message that men were not enough for women. That women's desires to be moms and have families, while nice, were not progressive and actually held them back. Whenever women's happiness declined, men were to blame. Women today are unhappier than they've been compared to the 1960s, at a time they were supposedly under the heel of men.

Thus came the victimhood narrative. In the 90s, due in part to information technology, the media and ongoing social movements regarding race and inequality, people began to be aware of the link between compensation and victimhood. Your people hurt us in the past, now we deserve something in the present. Affirmative Action was just too juicy an opportunity for women to miss. It was meant to benefit black people who were kept out of opportunities due to systemic racism. Not for white women to score jobs and promotions easily. They spoke of breaking the glass ceiling, but they were unwilling to completely give up being moms.

To avoid being caught out for wanting to earn the same as men for half the work, they claimed that they suffer unpaid labour at home and lack of recognition at work. They claimed the system held them back and that they were really doing more work than men but were not being recognized for it. You couldn't hear talk of work among feminist circles without the wage gap being spat out like second hand jizz from Chad's cock.

Studies proving men work more, that they choose better paying careers or that young women were outearning young men mattered not. Women were determined to hold men accountable for their poor choices. They spread their wings and their legs, and now they're mad at men for not wifing them up after years of being pumped and dumped.

Fuck 'em. Let them stay mad. Let them suffer the consequences of their poor choices. If they want to wait until 35 to settle down, then be the guy who is getting commitment free sex from them when they're 25. If modern women cannot respect men or themselves to be more circumspect in their youth, then respect their choices. But don't feel even an iota of sympathy when they realise they've wasted their youth. r/datingoverthirty is full of stories about the graveyard that is the love lives of these women. You can go there and read about how they were fucked out of a future because they engorged themselves on the feminist Kool Aid.

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This entire post is a pretty great example of reasonable-sounding, "common sense" explanations.... that are complete horse shit.

Well men are being exposed to porn earlier and earlier and it’s free and it’s everywhere. You can find it on twitter Orr tumblr. It’s popular

It’s literally conditioning men to think hungry thirsty and low value

You really start us off with a grand slam of stupid.

Unless you specifically look for porn which degrades and devalues men, the overwhelming majority of what you will find is porn which depicts men as strong, virile, commanding, dominating, and outright abusive towards women, who are portrayed as subservient, weak, and demure (yet secretly sex-crazed!). Men are in control, women exist to serve their needs.

Then you have only fans come up and it’s normalized among us and don’t you dare have an opinion or else you’re intolerant towards sex workers

These sites exist because of the demand for jerk-off material. The hypocrisy of men condemning and admonishing the very sex workers they patronize is as old as sex work itself.

If anything, porn has become more democratic and less degrading. The ability to capture high quality pictures and film on consumer and pro-sumer equipment and distribute and monetize it easily online has made it easier for women to stay within their comfort zone, rather than being pushed far beyond them by predatory, cruel, and exploitative producers.

And really, what's the harm in any of it at that point? Some people feel comfortable, or even elated to share their sex lives online, and clearly others are more than happy to watch. The only victim here are your delicate sensibilities. But I'm sure you're able to stow your outrage when you feel like pumping one out...

Men, just like women, didn’t get there alone. Women have been dealing with sexualised images and how they have to twerk and drop it low to every song etc... we are both being influenced to be less...

People like you are influencing other to be less. Less kind, less accepting, less tolerant, less empathetic, less humane.

I agree that media, both mainstream and porn, sets people up to feel inadequate, but the solution isn't to add shame and guilt to the cocktail.

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I have learned that Woke people actually cant argue with logic, as logic is part of the tools of the oppressors. So to screw with them you have to learn a bit of their lingo. Instead of saying their stupid, you have to start with your personal story, and then build to something. Make shit up, get them invested, then drop them.

My reality, and my story starts with my POC grandmother pushing my mother out of the house at an early age. She spent her whole life learning how to fight through this world, and I respect her for that. She did the best she could guiding my path to this point. The point where I know and respect people and their own truths, like your mom and her inner truth. I respected her over and over last night, matter of fact I can still taste her inner truth on my lip. Next time you see your mom remember my name and my story.

As an example a way to screw with woke people. Still working on it and trying to parse the lingo to get them invested.

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Dope ad-hominen, that'll certainly smooth this over. Quote me where I claimed to have it right. I don't claim to know anything, I highlighted your self-admitted ignorance and unwillingness to learn. Keep coping, you clearly have no understanding what my argument even is.

I won't bother explaining to someone who is so openly hostile to things they openly admit to not understanding.

That's great, you're again admitting you don't understand but you continue to engage in hostility towards me; why would I bother explaining something to you when you display hostility in your questioning?

If you actually have any level of interest in this at all, I implore you to take 10minutes and read the article on Wikipedia about this. It'll give you a very high-level understanding of the definition of patriarchy and the various applications in which it manifests and what impact people believe it has. My opinion literally does not matter, I'm advocating you to try and understand the definition so you're not ignorant, and then understand the various arguments so you can have better arguments and better opinions. I have no issue with whatever opinion you have once you're informed on the subject. I take issue with your framing because you literally admit in your first sentence that you have no idea what you're talking about, and then proceed to talk on the subject. This is literally the textbook definition of ignorance. I'm not advocating for you to believe in patriarchy or its issues that are argued; I'm imploring you to make an effort to understand it for yourself if you're wanting to discuss it. Go learn, make better opinions, and come back to talk. Right now, you're not even ready to talk about it.

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Women can still rape and beat men with minimal to no consequences. If anything, the man's more likely to be charged with something for being the victim. Threatening false accusation is the primary means of women raping men and an extra form of attack against any male victim of female violence. "Forced to penetrate" isn't even specifically illegal in several states and many countries. Male rape wasn't including in FBI crime stats till 2011 and still excludes "forced to penetrate", which leaves out intercourse or oral by female attackers on male victims. The Duluth Model's the primary international IPV dogma, in spite of all research showing female primary initiation, both per incident and per relationship.

"Husband-beating" was an actual historical charge against the man for being beaten. It literally ran from being a shame on him to a criminal charge with punishment.

"Marital rape" is what feminists call it when courts used to hold than a man could deprive his wife of his resources if she deprived him of sex. It didn't apply to male violence, which was quite illegal. All it did was enforce an actual degree of exchange in the supposed marriage contract as opposed to the modern version that completely violates all contract law. The Puritans did much the same, only it was typically the women threatening divorce if they weren't sexually satisfied.

[–]Tibby_LTP-2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

So, I will first say that there is no real way of explaining the Patriarchy in a single Reddit post as it is a very vast and complex subject. But the simplest way to describe it is that men hold the positions of power and have more privilege: head of the family unit, leaders of social groups, boss in the workplace, heads of government, etc.

If you look throughout history this is the dominate societal structure. In the US, for instance, women didn't get the ability to vote until 1920. But that's not the whole story, 1920 was only when white women were given the vote. Native American women did not get the vote until 1924. Chinese women were not given the right to vote until 1943. And Black and Latino women were not given the vote until 1965. (Source)

The few rights that women had in the US were pretty much always stripped away from the when they got married, to the point where women were pretty much just considered property of their husbands. Married women got back some of these rights in 1848 with the Married Women's Property Act, and then further more in 1860 with the Act Concerning the Rights and Liabilities of Husband and Wife. The 1860 act is an interesting one as it acknowledged that women were the joint legal guardians of their children. That's right, before 1860 women were not the legal guardians of their own children. At this point women had some rights, but still nowhere near the rights afforded to men. The fight for women's rights have continued and it wasn't until the 1970s that women were allowed to have a private bank account or even have their own credit without their husband's signature. (Source 1) (Source 2)

To go into more examples would require literal days of typing and gathering research and dozens and dozens of maxed Reddit posts. I would agree that some ways that non-experts use the term Patriarchy just amounts to buzzwords, but the academics and activists that dedicate their lives to studying and fighting these actual instances of the Patriarchy are also annoyed when dumb people make stupid statements.

Oh, and to go back to the video for a second, there are women who do the same work that the guy was attributing to men. There is very little work that men can do that women cant, but it is very Patriarchal and demeaning for someone to say that those jobs are "men's" jobs.

[–]Consistent-Scientist2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

The problem with that narrative is that it cherrypicks aspects that benefit it but completely ignores the ones that might contradict it.

For Instance, you can't mention rights without responsibilities. In many first world countries (Finland, South Korea to name a couple) there is still mandatory military service for men only. So there, for quite a while, women actually had more freedom by law than men. Are those countries matriarchal then?

Also power is such a broad and hard to define term. Perfect for cherrypicking. One aspect that is completely left out is societal influence. You could make a solid argument that any average secondary school teacher has more influnence on how future generations live and think than a manager at a Fortune 500 company that makes ten times the money. And the overwhelming majority of those teachers are female.

But the main problem with the concept of patriarchy is that it deflects from the real problems. How priviliged you are is much more determined by your socioeconomic background instead of your gender. If you want more equality you need to make sure things become more just for EVERYONE, because that's how it always worked historically.

[–]Tibby_LTP1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

In many first world countries (Finland, South Korea to name a couple) there is still mandatory military service for men only. So there, for quite a while, women actually had more freedom by law than men.

Well, there are different schools of thought about this, there are feminists that fight to end the draft/mandatory military service, and then there are feminists that fight to add women to the draft/mandatory military service. (Source) So, kinda? I don't know about you though, but if I was given the choice to either spend 2-4 years in mandatory military service, or be an abject slave to another person, I am going to chose the military service.

You could make a solid argument that any average secondary school teacher has more influnence on how future generations live and think than a manager at a Fortune 500 company that makes ten times the money. And the overwhelming majority of those teachers are female.

A secondary school teacher has access to a few dozen students? Many of whom will only focus on the classwork and doesn't really care about the teacher? Vs a fortune 500 company that will likely have billions of advertising budget that can reach tens if not hundreds of millions of people?

And the overwhelming majority of those teachers are female.

I wonder why that is.

How priviliged you are is much more determined by your socioeconomic background instead of your gender.

I do agree with this, however I have some questions. Why is it that if you are born male you are more likely to work as an oil rig operator than as a preschool teacher? And if you are born female then why are you more likely to be a nurse than as a construction worker on skyscrapers? Both are capable of either job, but why are some dominated by one sex over the other?

If you want more equality you need to make sure things become more just for EVERYONE, because that's how it always worked historically.

Have you heard of the Civil rights protests in the 60s? Or the BLM movement? Or abolitionism? Or gay rights? Or trans rights? Or abortion rights? Are you saying that these are bad things to fight for because they don't personally effect every single person in the world? Was the abolition of slavery bad because there were poor white factory workers in the north that lost their job because some recently freed slaves were willing to work for less?

I hope you would say that these were important fights and needed to be done to increase the freedom for these people, but then I would have to ask why would you think these are defensible yet feminism is not?

As on the other hand, if you believe that these movements were/are bad because they don't personally effect every single person, then I would just have to ask, are you really in favor of the freedom/personal liberties of people?

Because the way I see it, I don't see another way you could have any other stance on these issues with what you just said.

[–]Consistent-Scientist1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

but if I was given the choice to either spend 2-4 years in mandatory military service, or be an abject slave to another person, I am going to chose the military service.

See, that's exactly the cherrypicking I mean. Garnish it with a nice sprinkle of hyperbole and voila. I dont't know exactly what you mean by abject slavery to another person, but I assume you mean a woman in a marriage in the beginning of last century. Well, if you do that then don't compare it to military service today but back then. And yes if you gave me the choice between spending a day on a battlefield of world war I and staying at home but not being able to vote, well I'll take my chances at home.

A secondary school teacher has access to a few dozen students? Many of whom will only focus on the classwork and doesn't really care about the teacher? Vs a fortune 500 company that will likely have billions of advertising budget that can reach tens if not hundreds of millions of people?

Each secondary school teacher will deal with literally thousands of children during their career. For the first 20 years of their lives children spend probably as much time with their teachers as with their parents. I don't know about you but my teachers made a massive impact about how I developed as a young adult. And how many people actually have the final say over billions of marketing money? A few hundreds maybe. So maybe ask the question why so few people are handling that much money and if it has to be that way instead of why those people are mostly men.

why is it that if you are born male you are more likely to work as an oil rig operator than as a preschool teacher? And if you are born female then why are you more likely to be a nurse than as a construction worker on skyscrapers? Both are capable of either job, but why are some dominated by one sex over the other?

Well that's a very difficult question and the jury is still out on that. But if I had to make a guess based on the science we have I'd say that it comes down largely to biological differences between men and women that determine what we're interested in and what types of work we're drawn to. But of course also to some degree what our sorroundings expects from us.

Have you heard of the Civil rights protests in the 60s? Or the BLM movement? Or abolitionism? Or gay rights? Or trans rights? Or abortion rights? Are you saying that these are bad things to fight for because they don't personally effect every single person in the world? Was the abolition of slavery bad because there were poor white factory workers in the north that lost their job because some recently freed slaves were willing to work for less?

No, that's not what I am saying at all. What I am saying is that it is no coincidence that those started in the 60s and onwards. That was a time when the wolrd finally recovered from the two most devestating wars in history. You give people better living conditions, they actually have the capacity to focus on things like fighting for equal rights. Crazy how that works right?

Meanwhile feminism today is mostly carried by journalists and academics, a privileged subcaste of women who, I would argue, mostly lobby in their own interests. A single mother working two jobs doesn't give a rat's ass whether more women from strong socioeconomic backgrounds go into STEM or not. She just needs her bills paid. So why not focus on that? Why does such a large part of the public discourse have to be taken up by a gender war?

[–]Tibby_LTP1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I dont't know exactly what you mean by abject slavery to another person, but I assume you mean a woman in a marriage in the beginning of last century. Well, if you do that then don't compare it to military service today but back then.

Yes, that was my comparison, and guess what, people chose that. There were slaves throughout history that agreed to do military service to gain their freedom at the end of it. More often than not the work they were put to during that service would see them killed, but they believed that the pursuit of freedom to be a worthwhile goal for the risks involved. I myself feel the same way.

And yes if you gave me the choice between spending a day on a battlefield of world war I and staying at home but not being able to vote, well I'll take my chances at home.

If you believe that the extent of the hardships that women have faced throughout history, even 20th century America, was the inability to vote, then I would advise you to actually read some books or articles about the subject.

Each secondary school teacher will deal with literally thousands of children during their career. For the first 20 years of their lives children spend probably as much time with their teachers as with their parents.

I may have worded it a bit loosely, and that is my bad, I did not mean to say that these teachers have no influence on their students, but just that the influence that a teacher may have on any individual student in a single year is not the same as a fortune 500 company has with their advertising. A teacher can only influence a few dozen to maybe a couple hundred people a year depending on what school system they are in, but a company like Walmart influences hundreds of millions of people in a single day.

So maybe ask the question why so few people are handling that much money and if it has to be that way instead of why those people are mostly men.

No argument here, but a socialist world can still be sexist and racist, and I want to get rid of those as well.

But if I had to make a guess based on the science we have I'd say that it comes down largely to biological differences between men and women that determine what we're interested in and what types of work we're drawn to.

Man, I would love to see a scientific paper that states there are biological reasons why men work in sewers and women aren't pilots.

But of course also to some degree what our sorroundings expects from us.

Oh, this is actually the reason, right here. Turns out if you teach a child from birth that they are dainty and are supposed to raise children they will more likely grow up to do a job that is focused on that, no matter the child's sex. Turns out that if you teach a kid how to do martial arts from a young age they are more likely to get a job that is more physical, no matter the child's sex.

No, that's not what I am saying at all. What I am saying is that it is no coincidence that those started in the 60s and onwards. That was a time when the wolrd finally recovered from the two most devestating wars in history. You give people better living conditions, they actually have the capacity to focus on things like fighting for equal rights. Crazy how that works right?

Lol? Abolitionism was a little itty bit before the 1960s. Gay and trans rights have been a hard fought battle for centuries, and in some parts of the world millennia. Black people in the US have been fighting for their civil liberties for hundreds of years. Abortion became illegal in the 1820s and women have been fighting for it since then. Are you fucking kidding me? Jesus dude, would it kill you to read a damn book before acting like you know all of humanities history of fighting for liberty.

Like, I am an anarchist, I also want to make this world better like you seem to try and hint at, but my dude, thinking like yours is what kills our movement again and again. Do you want to know one of the main reasons why many unions failed back in the early 20th century? Because many of them were racist as fuck and didn't let black people join them. And what did that cause? When the unions striked the black people continued to work, because they had no protection with the union. So they worked and the unions didn't get what they were striking for and many of the union members were fired from their jobs, and who did they blame? The black people. Called them scabs.

I don't want socialists to fail this time around, so we need to fight to get rid of the racism and sexism that permeates our society, including people like you.

A single mother working two jobs doesn't give a rat's ass whether more women from strong socioeconomic backgrounds go into STEM or not.

Unless her daughter is interested in STEM fields and she wants her kid to get out of poverty.

Oh, and another question to you, why cant we fight both at the same time.

[–]Consistent-Scientist2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Yes, that was my comparison, and guess what, people chose that.

Still not quite sure what you mean by women being in abject slavery. That comparison is straight up bizarre.

Man, I would love to see a scientific paper that states there are biological reasons why men work in sewers and women aren't pilots.

Well if you're looking for a single paper that definitively proves exactly that then you lack basic understanding of how research in that area and science in general work.

Oh, this is actually the reason, right here.

You say that because that's what alligns with your ideology. Reality looks a bit different. The science on it being at least a combination of nature and nurture is very clear. For instane, there's already different preferences for objects and people in male and female toddlers and even babies.

If you think that a completely equal society would have an exactly 50% split between male and female lumberjacks and butchers and teachers and nurses then you're deluding yourself. Maybe put down your political philosophy and gender studies books and pick up one that teaches statistics. In fact multiple individual studies have shown that the more egalitarian a society is, the bigger the gender divide in job choice, not smaller.

I don't want socialists to fail this time around, so we need to fight to get rid of the racism and sexism that permeates our society, including people like you.

See that's a problem you have I think. You're mashing things together that are simply not the same. Sexism and racism, while I agree are problems still to this day, have very different origins and you're not getting rid of either if you keep treating them the same.

Unless her daughter is interested in STEM fields and she wants her kid to get out of poverty.

And you don't think that if the only way out of poverty is going into STEM we have bigger problems than which sexual organs the people working there have?

Oh, and another question to you, why cant we fight both at the same time.

Well maybe if we're plastering the limited space public discourse has with a crusade on all things masculine you're dividing society more than uniting it to fight for common interests.

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For what it's worth, they're typically discouraged from moving on up the ladder. An old friend of mine went to school and got certified and everything, practically broke her back trying to get into the trades and prove herself, and she was passed over every single time by a bunch of men from completely different, unrelated industries with zero experience in what they were applying for. All that she could get were basic bitch general maintenance jobs. It wasn't even exactly a physically-demanding trade that she was trying to get into - just technical. And she was more than capable.

It's bullshit. I think that there's a lot to be said about differing job trends between men and women, but to say that sexism doesn't play at least a small part in the whole ordeal is rather disingenuous. Not saying that you did, but seeing her experience really opened my eyes to how discouraging it can be for women to get into the trades.

[–]fuckamodhole 26 points27 points28 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

An old friend of mine went to school and got certified and everything, practically broke her back trying to get into the trades and prove herself, and she was passed over every single time by a bunch of men from completely different, unrelated industries with zero experience in what they were applying for. All that she could get were basic bitch general maintenance jobs. It wasn't even exactly a physically-demanding trade that she was trying to get into - just technical. And she was more than capable.

I got a friend of mine who is a male nurse and he is looked down upon by the other women nurses and doctors. They all come running to him when they need a patient moved though. So if you go into any industry dominated by a specific gender, then you should expect some forms of discriminaiton.

I worked at a school uniform shop when I was 16 years old. I wasn't allowed to help any of the customers because I was a male. All of the women could help the customers but because I was born a male I wasn't allowed. I had to sit there and literally fold clothes all day. Life isn't fair and won't ever be fair.

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OK, I see some people still live in 50s. Intellectually, women are way smarter than you, don't compare yourself.

Having prevalence of males in chess is simply due to the fact that it is a pretty exclusive scene. I played chess at a high level and there is a misogynistic culture. Many chess players are socially awkward and aren't successful with women, so they cling to one thing that makes them feel superior, and it is chess. And in my city, best player in my age group was a girl, who would pretty much decimate every boy in her age group.
Get lost with your archaic thinking you fuckwit.

Edit: Just went through your history, you are active in Conspiracy, Conservative, FakeNews, CancelCulture, RedPill related subreddits and leatherjacket (???wtf) subreddits. You are a fucking loser, shut the fuck up and stop spreading your ignorance.

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We do have at least 12000 years of history that puts men in more physical roles as opposed to women, and as a result of millions of years of a likely similar social situation, men have evolved to be stronger than women on average. This could have been the other way around, and some primates even do this, chimpanzees are matriarchal and the females actually tend to be stronger.

Our species either instinctively or socially decided to be patriarchal, which likely is why males tend to be stronger than females. And just because females of our species are weaker physically, it doesn’t necessarily mean that those kinds of jobs are unobtainable for women, just that they might face some physical difficulties as compared to a man in those positions.

In contrast, women have likely evolved to be better at certain kinds of mental, delicate work that men would have difficulty doing, like weaving or artistry. Not to say that men couldn’t train those skills just like a woman could train physically, but those skills may come more naturally to women than men.

This kinda ignores the fact that yes, historically, most of this work was done by men, but currently, most of the physical work is done by machines, not people. That guys house could have been made by people, but it’s far more likely that it was at least assisted by machines, which could be operated by either males or females just as efficiently. Same with the table, the farming of vegetables, and the slaughtering of animals en masse. All likely machine made rather than man made.

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The comment where you stated:

"It's only been during the last 100 (+/-) years that they finally became part of the work force and that's only because men created the civilization that made it possible for women to have jobs where physical activity is not necessary"

Yeah, I read it. Did you? Because explain how women "manning" all those factory positions to make weapons of war and heavy machinery fit into your little, small minded preconceived notions about how only men can do that stuff.

You're an ignorant misogynist who doesn't listen, refuses to learn and you're now scrambling to force all these square pegs I've dropped in front of you into all those round holes you already drilled. Unfortunately you're not consistent and it seems you're probably carrying on too many arguments to keep all your bullshit straight.

Fact is women have done everything men have. Be angry. Deny it. History proves otherwise, so go cry about it.

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either dumb or just in denial

You incels are a sick bunch. You don’t even realize how much you need help

So you didn’t google ‘Ad Hominem’ then?

I was told women arebr CAPABLE of doing those jobs

I assume that that word was supposed to be ‘aren’t’? If so, no you weren’t.

Yeah, I can definitely imagine women hunting mammoths, building pyramids and fighting wars..

How many female miners are there? How many females are actually carrying bricks to build a house? How many women are drilling holes to get oil?

Hunting mammoths, building pyramids, fighting wars, mining, building and oil drilling. Not factory work.

You moved the goalposts of the argument, which is a disingenuous thing to do.

Factory work is tiring, of course it is. It might be something to do with why men have been expected to do it since the industrial revolution, that’s the flip side of the ‘forced to stay at home’ argument that no-one mentions.

Yes the women that supported the war by working in the factories deserve credit, but don’t just blindly believe the line that this was due to women being oppressed. They did jobs that they previously didn’t want because men were expected to (and did) die by the millions because that is the role that society delegates men to, disposable.

Why is it that still today, the vast majority of dangerous and physically demanding work is done by men?

Let me guess, the patriarchy?

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women just sit back and chilled

Not at all, they had important jobs that were vital to society (and still do). What I don’t see people mention is the flip side to the usual talking points, like...

didn’t have rights to even own fucking property

Because the man in a relationship was legally obligated to take on responsibility for any debt that the woman had, they were expected to work otherwise their family would literally die, and most of those jobs were horribly dangerous (the vast majority of dangerous jobs are still done by men).

It’s so easy (and fun) to respond to posts like this because you’re doing the exact thing that you accuse the poster of...

bring up history but skip over important details

...I’d suggest you do some reading for yourself and look at the fact that humankind has always relied on the partnership between men and women. Has it always been fair? Of course not, but bleating on about things that happened in the past and pretending that those problems still exist is dumb.

Currently, a big chunk of one half of the ‘partnership’ is falsely complaining that they still have it as hard as they did ‘100 yEaRs aGo’ while ignoring real issues and pretending that the gender that is expected to die in wars, do the vast majority of physical and life threatening labour, have the rights to their kids taken away if they get divorced, get given much higher sentences for equivalent crimes than women, and many other things, has everything ‘perfect’.

If you want to have a calm discussion that doesn’t start with ‘wOw’ then awesome, but I suspect you’d rather call me an ‘iNcEl’ or something similar and walk away with your fingers in your ears.

[–]packer150941 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I have fingers up my ass lol ok kid. Amazing that you try to justify misogyny by saying men had harder jobs. Men didn’t allow property because they where obligated it is because they thought women where not capable of making decision on their own. Yet another important detail you conveniently left out.

Love how you bring up the judicial system. Your best example is and old incel argument of “bUt mAn wItH cUstoDy bAtTlE” yeah those are no where as common as you think. The fact that you do is telling. Let’s focus on who runs the damn legal system.

What is the gender of most judges? What is the gender of most politicians? What is the gender of most policeman? Last time I check it wasn’t women. Woman have to fight for simple reproductive rights to this day which are decide by white man. But so sad your buddy couldn’t put on a condom so he has to pay child support.

Also, to continue to reiterate the point of you missing details is have you heard of the metoo movement? Yeah totally, women still have it good right?

This is how I know you are a bigot. You think men where forced into doing hard jobs and it wasn’t men not allowing women because they didn’t think they where capable. That problem still exist today.

Me calling you a bigot and misogynist isn’t ad hominems. It is a fact. I know you would never say this shit to your mom or to a women you loved. I literally showed this to my fiancée and the first words out of her mouth where “another incel bigot”. As long as you believe men where somehow forced to taking ownership and women still don’t face patriarchy everyday to this day then yeah, you’re a bigot.

To end it all is how poorly your logic is. Men have been instilling a sexist society for thousands of years but it got all wiped out all in the last 100! Women and minorities should just shut up because it was worst 100 years ago Im I right?? That’s your logic. That’s how bad it is. Get your thumb out of your ass and go debate a women on this. Open your mind buddy because you going to be lonely as hell

[–]TAEACCMFT1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I have fingers up my ass lol ok kid

An immediate Ad Hominem, and something I didn’t say. Good start 👍

The rest of your post just kind of boils down to the usual talking points without realising that things are a little more complicated than ‘mEn are eViL AnD OpPrEsSiVe’.

The worst thing about incels is that they’ve enabled people to just throw the name out there when anyone disagrees with them. It’s usually thrown out pretty hysterically as well, just like in this instance.

Almost everything in this post is making false assumptions about me (or my argument) and then making conclusions based upon those false assumptions, it’s kind of pathetic and a really bad way to argue. What relevance does showing your fiancé have (other than trying to show me you have a fiancé?) I bring this up with women all the time, some of them react hysterically like you kind of are, but a lot of them talk about things calmly and sensibly, because they are grown ups. They don’t just buy the line that you’re peddling without critical thinking skills, you could learn a lot from them.

If we’re going with personal judgements and assumptions then you sound a little bit like one of those ‘ally neckbeards’ that just believe that ‘pOor WOMeN HAVe BeeN Held bAcK By eViL MeN ThRoUgH HiStORY, THe fUtURE Is fEmALE!’

Seriously, if this is how you construct an argument against someone you disagree with, I hope you never have to do it in person without a keyboard to take cover behind.

Open your mind buddy because you going to be lonely as hell

I’m completely fine with my mind thanks, I’d be concerned about yours because all you’ve posted is a wall of accusatory, hysterical and presupposing drivel.

I look forward to your next ‘ragey’ reply x

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exactly my experience as well. worked in different places and saw a lot of staff changes. especially in the seasonal operated places. it was always the same.

hk is all females, with exception of bellhops, who were usually also in charge of the mini bars, vacuuming, stuff like that.

kitchen is a mixed bag, most women don't stay there long, as the chefs are often asshats and the work environment can get somewhat hostile.

front desk is mostly women, management is male. bar and service is a mixed bag too. technicians, repairmen etc all male.

i changed to manual labor as i couldn't stand hospitality any more. in my decade there any female workers i met were a few painters. with the exception of two girls working in fire damage restoration. and believe you me, they didn't ever touch any powertools, didn't pack the furniture, load the trucks etc. only light cleaning work. one of them had long fingernails ffs. that was a disheartening thing to realize. oh well

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Agreed, but that isn't the point.

She generalized by suggesting men don't bring anything to "the table," which he countered with a long list of male dominated trades. WHY these are male dominated and whether it's due to sexism isn't relevant to the video, it's simply too big a question for the video.

Of course women can, and do, these jobs, but not even remotely at the same rate as men. The woman generalized and got generalized in turn by the man. Fair play, but it's not like this video is some sort of academic truth or gospel.

Women, for a variety of reasons, tend to work less at lower paying positions which are less demanding than men. Men meanwhile work longer hours in heavy infrastructure jobs which pay more. Again, it's a generalization, but so is this whole video.

I'm a man who worked in an office pre covid (now work from home, yesses) which was dominated by women. The hours are long, the work is boring, but it sure as hell beats roofing. Generalizing that mostly women work in my office doesn't offend me, it's the truth. Our truckers, on the other hand, are overwhelmingly male. It pays more, but it's harder (more physical) work which wears you down.

This sub has incels and goblins, but saying everyone is that way generalizes, too. Arguing male vs female roles in the workplace is simply too complex a topic NOT to generalize, even if it's not helpful.

Challenging your perspective goes both ways, is my long winded point.

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Title	You got denied!
Author	16CLeclerc
Upvotes	18612
Comments	982
Date	March 13, 2021 2:26 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PussyPassDenied
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/pussypassdenied/comments/m47air/you_got_denied/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PussyPassDenied/you-got-denied.1066395 https://theredarchive.com/post/1066395