CMV: The sex life of the average man pre free love movement was much worse than today

Urbantexasguy · 2021-10-22T22:20:23+00:00

Well, it was estimated by contemporary police, that there were some 80,000 prostitutes in mid to late 18th century London, which incredibly, is about 1 out of every 5 or 6 women.

At the time, it was customary, for a young man to pay a courting visit to his very prim and proper fiancé, and play a little game of "slap and tickle" on the sofa. The young man would then leave his fiancé, and seek something a little more "substantial" in downtown London.

Disposition11 · 2021-10-22T22:19:04+00:00

By the past, are you only referring to 18th century Victorian England?

John_Oakman · 2021-10-22T23:24:54+00:00

Quality of life by most material metrics sucks across the board in the past (and in the present outside of the developed world). However, for most of human history there's various immaterial variables (religions, political/economic ideologies, community, etc.) to make the sufferings meaningful and even worthwhile to a certain extent. The modern secular liberal cultures of the developed world today has done away with most of those delusions in the name of a more honest and just world, but it is precisely those delusions that gives meaning to life and all of its pitfalls.

Of course, most of the folk here have been living in the modern secular liberal culture for so long that they have never really experienced the unenlightened age that came before it, and so they will dismiss and demonize these immaterial factors.

flapperfemmefatale · 2021-10-22T22:46:17+00:00

An hour on this sub will disabuse you of the idea that most men care about whether the women they fuck actually enjoy it lol

Willow-girl · 2021-10-23T03:45:45+00:00

Google "Queen Victoria and Prince Albert." It's rather ironic that ol' Vicky became an icon for frumpy prudishness!

chingness · 2021-10-23T11:27:18+00:00

Men. Whinging since literally forever 🤣🤣🤣

TheRedPillRipper · 2021-10-22T23:46:31+00:00

why are men romanticzing the past?

It’s because they believe it was easier. To get sex. Starfish/duty sex is still sex.

much worse

That’s subjective. If you’ve got good game, fit and have a job, you’re not struggling to date. It’s not rocket science. Personally speaking it’s better now because everyone’s free to choose. There’s more options for men, and for women.

Godspeed and good luck!

djblackmith · 2021-10-22T22:36:17+00:00

I think this is something only boomers can answer properly. Most people here (including genx) don't really know much and just make general assumptions based on close people's (usually they're grandmas) individual circumstances.

SaBahRub · 2021-10-22T22:11:24+00:00

Seems more like it sucked for women, not men

Your OP talks more about women, for example

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Ppdebateismental · 2021-10-22T22:18:36+00:00

There were definitely wild, kinky and passionate couples. The letters between James Joyce and his wife were crazy. Legend goes she gave him a hand job on the street the first night they met. Oral, anal, it’s all there in the letters https://allthatsinteresting.com/james-joyce-love-letters-nora-barnacle

Despite “Victorian” being considered a buzz word for sexually uptight mores, Queen Victoria and Prince Albert had an extremely robust sex life, complete with pornographic art to spice up their libidos

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/may/22/queen-victoria-erotic-revealed-nude-collection-prince-albert-isle-of-wight-osborne-house Her only problem was she kept getting knocked up, but she was a dirty bird.

I just think it depended on the couple and their chemistry together tbh. I do think many couples probably had long dry spells due to frigidity, lack of sexual knowledge and fear of pregnancy

KirthWGersen · 2021-10-22T22:55:06+00:00

People in the past were the same way as we are now. We are all human.

Cultures change things. Some people are taught to be ashamed of sex; others accept it as a part of their selves.

Compare a northern European to a Southern European nowawdays. The notherns have a disconnect between sex and emotion; the southerns' may appear more choosy, but the act of sex is more natural to them.

blackwayne22 · 2021-10-23T13:26:55+00:00

also can you imagine medieval sex?

I look at that as, if everybody stinks, then does anybody stink?

Sewud · 2021-10-24T12:36:21+00:00

Sex IS supposed to be horrible for women. It always was. It's often painful and women DO NOT need to feel pleasure to get pregnant. It was probably a traumatizing thing for most. Think that men were probably not trying to make it pleasurable for women back then either.

For fun sex men went to prostitutes.

And the thing is, yes, a man could rape his wife, or have access to her a lot, BUT he needed to work in partnership with his wife to a degree. He needed her to cook for instance, and if he wanted her to cook him nice food, it was probably in his interested not to rape her too much.

It was probably dead bedrooms as contraception methods, and for those who had 15 children well it was probably no sex when she's pregnant and nursing, which was most of the time.

Mimoxs · 2021-10-22T23:51:23+00:00

Everything you're listing only describes how their sex lives were better

the passion driven/engaging act many red pill men dreamt it was

No they don't, they don't care about that

TodTheRod01 · 2021-10-22T23:46:46+00:00

You forget a few things:

Sex religiously is viewed as a wife's duty
going far back enough in time....the husband didnt have to ASK if she was in the mood, or try to get her in the mood...he could just take it....nothing illegal about it back then.
Brothels and use of prostitutes was far more common in the past
extra-marital fun for the dude was also not as uncommon since divorces were not common place either.
Parts of male genitalia are still removed to this day even in 1st world countries....and one of the original reasons for that was to discourage masturbation....

jordan_form · 2021-10-22T22:29:54+00:00

disagree. an average man got their looks match and could demand sex from their wife and that would be normal.

the reason for female circumcision, covering women head to toe, feet binding, slut shaming, making adultery punishable by death, etc. that is so women don't fuck OTHER men.

'Close your eyes and think of England' is a pretty common phrase society told women to do.

it's because women are disgusted by their partner. and to this day, many relationships are like this. the lights are turned off and the sex lasts two seconds.

Considering sex was viewed as a "duty" and not the passion driven/engaging act many red pill men dreamt it was, why are men romanticizing the past?

the conclusion is that in the past, average men fucked hot girls that found them disgusting. in other words, many men got what they wanted.

Fit-Photograph1646 · 2021-10-22T22:54:08+00:00

Bro not all men want to be hoes... like me.

xFallacyx69 · 2021-10-22T23:58:09+00:00

Much better; much less diverse

Average dudes can bang more below average chicks now… but I’m a quality over quantity guy so I’d say the sex life is much worse now for average dudes.

Thank you mom and dad for the good genes.

velvetunderground111 · 2021-10-23T07:33:58+00:00

I was a mentally ill pretty boy (River Phoenix looks) as a kid and lived with my parents. I could not drive a car due to anxiety, did not have a job, went to community college part time, was in active alcoholism, had the maturity level of a twelve year old, slept until noon most days and couldn't handle most of the basic chores I was expected to do around the house.

I slept with seventy women between 21-26 years old and had four serious girlfriends, all hot nubile young women. One was asked to pose for Suicide Girls, she was that hot. They used to drive me around. One used to drive me to work. I literally could not take care of myself.

How do you think a guy like me would have fared, sexually, in 1955? Or 1855?

The sexual revolution was a boon for brain dead Chads. Women were free to pursue their sexual desires, even if it was with losers.

I wouldn't have had it any other way, to be honest. I was a punk kid who railed against hippies in my youth, but if not for birth control and free love, I would have had nothing in life.

Ppdebateismental · 2021-10-23T00:24:03+00:00

Edit: also can you imagine medival sex? Like, people didn't even shower back then 🤢 I doubt there was anything oral.

Pretty sure there were at least some women in Canterbury tales enjoying sex and some pretending to like it. One woman got some booty licking action too

https://www.bustle.com/p/7-times-the-canterbury-tales-was-way-dirtier-than-50-shades-of-grey-66368

banalchenal · 2021-10-23T00:28:02+00:00

People were horny back then too. I also think that simple pleasures had more novelty, which probably improved the perception of quality. Seeing a girl in her underwear in the 1950s? That was a massive score. Now that means nothing. Sex has become cheap and commodified. Any sense of Eros is gone.

In essence, I think it depends. People had a far greater sense of sensuality and eroticism back then. Love and sex weren't separated, people cared for each other and were connected. Yes some men were probably getting duty sex, but now a lot of men aren't getting sex at all. So. Now sex is meaningless and hollow. Mechanical. People have more access to sexual pleasure now, but it leaves them feeling empty more than anything.

lestratege · 2021-10-23T01:25:56+00:00

Confusing 19th century victorian mores with the whole past is quite the stretch.

heyitsjeape · 2021-10-23T04:30:01+00:00

I don’t think anyone cared about weight gain in the 19th century. If anything it was a good thing.

abaxeron · 2021-10-23T11:39:46+00:00

I doubt there was anything oral.

Cunnilingus definitely existed in Ancient times; the widespread legends of non-existent medieval hygiene are grossly overestimated and usually stem from language drifting and records of different tribes shit-talking their neighboring rivals. Quite recently I've stumbled upon mentions that among Medieval remains of human skulls, only about 10% of teeth had cavities (which is decent by modern standards even adjusting for life expectancy). People used a lot of outright toxic materials in their everyday life (cloth dyes; metal buttons and buckles and building staples were cast from metals not sufficiently purified of lead), and particles of these toxins getting onto skin, while not a pleasant or beneficial experience, prevented proliferation of bacteria. Cody recreated this effect here.

'Close your eyes and think of England' is a pretty common phrase society told women to do. Considering sex was viewed as a "duty" and not the passion driven/engaging act many red pill men dreamt it was, why are men romanticizing the past?

Before anything else, I'd recommend you to familiarize yourself with Giovanni Boccaccio's "Decameron", and adjust for the fact that this book was written in 14th century. "Society" does not "tell" anything; it does not have a mouth. Only humans and some machines "tell" people anything, even if/when you include written and printed word.

Addition: Historically the influence of "society" on a person was much less than it is now. 50 years ago there was no Internet. 150 years ago there was no telephone. 200 years ago there was no electric telegraph, and visual telegraphs had very low bandwidth. An average person lived in a village, within a dozen miles (tops) from the place of birth of their parents, away from the nearest social, political, or economic influence or enforcement. The only organization that had widespread influence was the religious institution, but it was far from centralized, unified, and even in 18th century USA up to 25 percent of the population did not attend church.

Men don't romanticize sex life of the past; they romanticize things that they are ready to sacrifice sex for.

Some cultures have gone as far as removing specific parts of female genitalia so the woman only feels pain during intercourse

ALL cultures remove specific parts of male genitalia for no other reason than to make intercourse more pleasurable to women.

DaphneDK42 · 2021-10-23T11:59:21+00:00

When men say "pre free love" they typically don't mean the 18th cent. Medieval period, the paleolithic, or some such thing. They mean around 1920-1970 or so. Modernity.

Married sex life was probably about the same as today. Some dead bedrooms for sure, but not the norm. What was different for the average man, was that he got to marry a young (20-22) healthy, feminine, and virgin'ish girl. Now he gets to marry an aging (30+) heavily pre-used woman, likely obese, likely she comes with a kid of more, perhaps an OnlyFan account and a few abortions, and all kinds of metal baggage that comes with having lived that life.

WilliamWyattD · 2021-10-24T13:32:43+00:00

To the extent that the quality of a man's sex life changed, rather than just the degree of his sexual access, you cannot put this all on 'free love'.

AidsVictim · 2021-10-24T15:24:12+00:00

It depends on what you mean by worse. Modern society basically traded consistent pairing and sex for variety and freedom in sexuality. The result is that both tails of sexual distribution enlarged - there are far more men who have little or no sex and will never have children and there are men with far more options now, although I don't think that number enlarged that much due to the nature of female sexuality (hypergamy/elite selection). It's the same bifurcation trend you see throughout society - there are fewer people that can afford a middle class lifestyle but the ones that can have it easier than ever. There are far more obese and unhealthy people than ever but there are also far more highly fit people than ever.

In general people are unhappier, have fewer social connections (sexual and otherwise), and the failure to form families is far higher (whether by choice or otherwise). Regardless of what you think about it morally or opportunity wise the statistical reality is the modern system doesn't create healthy self sustaining societies.

Considering sex was viewed as a "duty" and not the passion driven/engaging act many red pill men dreamt it was, why are men romanticizing the past?

Plenty of people had passionate sex and even casual sex wasn't that uncommon, in pretty much any period of history. The way the upper classes presented sexual morality doesn't necessarily (usually not) reflect real world average behavior.

2021-10-24T23:02:14+00:00

It was better. With OLD men have to compete with the most elite strata of men who are willing to date/fuck down for a casual encounter. The competition between men is much more severe now and as a result a ton of men that would have previously gotten a date or lay once a blue moon now get nothing.

Megabyte7637 · 2021-10-24T23:28:50+00:00

Gabrielvrape · 2021-10-22T23:08:40+00:00

Disagree it was so much better than it is now, like what are you talking about. There was no internet and feminism wasn't around. I wish I was born in the free love movementt era where women would give out sex like it was candy and it was basically free. But now we're stuck with modern feminism and OLD.

wtknight · 2021-10-23T00:09:10+00:00

Considering sex was viewed as a "duty" and not the passion driven/engaging act many red pill men dreamt it was, why are men romanticizing the past?

Why do you think that having no sex is better for men than having duty sex to make babies?

flowerwoven · 2021-10-23T01:04:55+00:00

Your view of the past is wrong. Some people really think people didn't become human until 1970 smh. People's self-reported sex lives suck NOWADAYS. Back then it was better.

>also can you imagine medival sex? Like, people didn't even shower back then

Ugggggh sigh. Bathing had spiritual significance in the Middle Ages and they bathed regularly to purify the body. They changed their clothes very often too. Stop spreading these dumb myths.

statsfodder · 2021-10-23T01:40:45+00:00

Wow so insightful ..

I'll CYV .. "women had it worse pre 1900s, you should happy you don't live back then"

Awesome discussion 👏

OneAngryBlutbad · 2021-10-23T02:03:27+00:00

Considering sex was viewed as a "duty" and not the passion driven/engaging act many red pill men dreamt it was, why are men romanticizing the past?

A skewed perception of what the past was actually like for people

Title	CMV: The sex life of the average man pre free love movement was much worse than today
Author	healththrow345
Upvotes	35
Comments	218
Date	October 22, 2021 9:59 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/qdrbzy/cmv_the_sex_life_of_the_average_man_pre_free_love/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/cmv-the-sex-life-of-the-average-man-pre-free-love.1082378 https://theredarchive.com/post/1082378

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