[USA] What do you think about the Unborn Child Support Act?

Small-Occasion-2384 · 2022-07-27T04:22:16+00:00

Paternity test would be the best thing.

NebulousASK · 2022-07-26T23:19:00+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Lasttoflinch · 2022-07-27T00:53:44+00:00

Paternity test should be mandated for such cases. Also, the dad should have 50 - 50 physical custody as the starting point.

harleypig · 2022-07-27T02:45:28+00:00

From the bill, which "amend[s] part D of title IV of the Social Security Act":

payments for such obligations may be retroactively collected or awarded, including in the case where paternity is established subsequent to the birth of the child

and

any measure to establish the paternity of a child (born or unborn) shall not be required without the consent of the mother

The really sneaky part is where the existing bill is amended to say

No experimental, pilot, or demonstration project undertaken ... to assist in promoting the objectives of part D of title IV, may permit modifications [to the changes noted above] to establish and enforce child support obligations of the biological father of an unborn child.

So, if this bill passes, it doesn't matter what studies find that contradicts the supposed benefits of this bill, fathers are still on the hook.

And, of course, the father is who the mother says it is.

KazukiYahashi · 2022-07-27T04:44:15+00:00

They should prove 100% without reasonable doubt who the father is, if this ridiculous bill should pass.

But wait, if it DOES pass, then some women might be deterred from committing paternity fraud, right??? Well, maybe this could actually help men, if implemented right. Sadly, the paternity test would be only with the mother’s consent?! As it stands, it’s reprehensible!

Outrageous_Fondant12 · 2022-07-26T23:41:48+00:00

I don't understand how a child that isn't eating or wearing clothes, even, needs financial support. It's just more mom support and a way to steal from men. What if she miscarries? Does he get a refund? Highly doubtful.

PurpleDemo · 2022-07-27T03:40:12+00:00

MGTOW

marks1995 · 2022-07-27T02:35:56+00:00

Good idea, but...

Why is the DNA test up to the mother? The father should be able to challenge paternity.

And not sure child support is the right term. It doesn't need to be some percentage of the father's income. It should be some number based on the cost of the pregnancy.

2022-07-27T05:29:53+00:00

What the heck is my lot doing?! I really need to become a centrist...

Outrageous_Fondant12 · 2022-07-27T00:08:17+00:00

This is batshit crazy. Fathers are already screwed under Title IV-D of the social security act. This proposed bill is redundant and sexist. Write every elected official you can and remember to vote come Nov. This has to be stopped dead in its tracks.

mimiczx · 2022-07-27T12:40:45+00:00

The US is a crazy place.

cuppa_tea_4_me · 2022-07-27T02:55:01+00:00

How would they know who the father is?

Kwen_Oellogg · 2022-07-27T04:44:17+00:00

Sure. As soon as the DNA test is completed.

solar-garlic1776 · 2022-07-27T10:21:23+00:00

This whole mess we are dealing with now is a result of society trying to find balance. Yes red states have always been prolife and wanted to limit abortions and blue states the opposite.

It wasn't until places like NY and CA went all 3rd term, late term, and partial birth abortions did the red states react with their no abortion laws.

mwfairc · 2022-07-27T10:44:30+00:00

I don't see a bill like this happening....at least not in the U.S. It'll be fought all the way to the Supreme Court and argued on the grounds of being the same as, guilty until proven innocent. The expectation is on the mother to prove who the father is through paternity tests.

Imagine all the women saying Elon Musk or Beezos is the father of their baby. How about Lebron James or Aaron Rogers? Well their team was playing the team in my city so he was in town. No body in their right mind is going to them prove that they didn't sleep with this woman without a paternity test. Every pregnant woman in the U.S. would be claiming some rich man was the father of their baby. Its unconstitutional. There's enough women out there that try and get pregnant to trap rich men, this bill isn't going to pass.

St-Germania · 2022-07-27T11:30:55+00:00

Positive but they should include a paternity test to be made as well

Rohan0785 · 2022-07-27T05:25:16+00:00

Well if these happen Billions of women even some as far as from Mars will claim Elon Musk to be the father of their unborn child.

2022-07-27T03:12:40+00:00

Maybe I'm about to be seen as a traitor to women, but why can't the mother work so she doesn't have to rely on child support from someone else? If you live with the guy, married, etc then he won't have to pay it where its mandated by court. Its better to marry, be extremely picky, really find out if youre compatible with the person and rely on the person that way, financially if you really want child support for the fetus. Otherwise, deaths happen where the man dies and shes stuck but this isnt that situation. This is more the woman wants support from the guy who for whatever reason isnt in her life in a relationship with her.

There are times when the woman decides not to be with the guy, maybe she wants to date other dudes because she has no self respect and sees the father as whatever negative thing. I've read stories about this where the guy cant see his child or she dumps him because she found someone else, because shes gross and just wants sex. Wanting a bad boy, wanting someone with more money.

If he refuses to be part of it all with her, tbh I'd rather make my own money, get food stamps, use wic, use the free services that exist in most places because if there is a person that refuses to help already, then I wouldnt even bother coming after him for child support, especially for a fetus that doesnt even have a brain yet, heart etc. Maybe I'm an ahole for this opinion lol. Will probably be told I'm victim blaming single moms, but as a woman I can say this is what I would do if the guy died or refused to be in my life. Thankfully I'm never having kids, though

KMKEEPS · 2022-07-27T02:08:20+00:00

Seems fine to me as long as a DNA test is possible and I get a complete refund if she miscarries or aborts.

Azihayya · 2022-07-27T03:48:31+00:00

I think abortion should just be legally available for women, lol.

Hot_One_240 · 2022-07-27T05:28:49+00:00

Something tells me no paternity test will be required which means this will only affect men.. so no

Suspicious-Sleep5227 · 2022-07-27T04:49:05+00:00

So in theory a woman can name any man as the father and he automatically has to pay up? If that’s the case, then how can we claim to live in a free and democratic society? This is tantamount to depriving a man of his property with absolutely no due process. It should be added to this law that if the alleged “father” wants to challenge paternity then he should have the right to request a DNA test. If this somehow violates the privacy of the mother to be, then it should be added that she may choose to withdraw her identification of the father or proceed with DNA testing. A father’s right to due process far outweighs a mother’s right to privacy.

2022-07-27T08:29:40+00:00

Child support as a whole is a scam and needs to be reworked.

I’m at the opinion that there shouldn’t be any to begin with. If you want to take care of the child then as a parent that is YOUR responsibility. You don’t get to pawn off some of the responsibility on the other parent because YOU wanted the child more.

TrilIias · 2022-07-27T01:35:43+00:00

In theory I don't have a problem with this. It takes two to make a child, both parties responsible should have to pay for the costs. This may even encourage men to be more careful about who they sleep with. This could be a win-win. However, that depends on how it's implemented.

I'm being lazy and I haven't read the bill, but I don't think it's unreasonable to suspect that it's going to be designed to screw men over. I'll get around to reading it soon, and I hope it will require a paternity test once the baby is born and if the father contests it, and that it will be based on the actual expenses that have to be paid and not just whatever amount the court decides.

Manux005 · 2022-07-27T01:56:47+00:00

Child support before there even is a child that needs to be supported? What happens if they have a misscarriage? Do they have to pay the money back, because they received money for a child that will never be there?

2022-07-27T04:23:20+00:00

It would be great if people pushed it because they believed in it but they don't. It's just a resentful, spiteful and childish tit-for-tat. Who knew women were resentful, spiteful or childish?

Anyway, I don't give a fuck about women's repro "rights." Here's a good introduction to the ways men's rights have been ignored. I'll wear a pussy hat and march for psycho baby murderers when women start giving a flying fuck about men.

syedalired21 · 2022-07-27T04:13:41+00:00

Once again, the family-unit is under attack. Attack in the form of itemising and quantifying each and every aspect of family life through twisted narratives.

First, it was "women do unpaid labor" and shit. Now this. What absolute garbage. The child is in the womb, it has no expenses. Any medical costs, clothes etc, are household expenses. They should be borne however these costs are being borne in each family.. In most cases, the father anyway pays.

This is just a spite-check with no logical basis.

aus9191 · 2022-07-27T05:28:19+00:00

I am not American,but sometimes I feel pity for USA men. You guy just let those feminist and idiot politicians take away your right as a father and male like that, even your own foreskin. Wake up men. Stop being silent.

TextDependent6779 · 2022-07-27T05:22:38+00:00

everyone is asking important questions like "what about miscarriages?". they're important things, but i have one better.

what happens if women decide they want late abortions? so a man pays this child support, and then a woman goes off just to abort the child the guy was trying to support, maybe by travelling states. or even if women commit an unsafe abortion.

surely he deserves some justice or reimbursement or something, supporting the child and then not even witnessing it's existence?

enough getting men to support women. the child isn't even in existence yet, that money is not for the child's benefit. it's for the mother's benefit, and you can guarantee there's nothing in place to ensure the money is spent on bigger clothes E.T.C. even if there was, you couldn't argue food bills because she's "eating for two".

TAPriceCTR · 2022-07-27T03:40:38+00:00

Sure. If Women can't kill their baby but can adopt the baby away; gestation support seems fair to me. It should be based on her pregnancy expenses and can include lost work.

The following 18 to 23 years are what I oppose without expressed agreement. Then again, I have opposed hook up culture forever so I don't think most people should be having sex without child centric commitment first.

Inevitable_Brain9852 · 2022-07-27T01:06:05+00:00

So I’m not for abortion. I believe life begins at conception. But what I’m seeing is the people who don’t believe the baby is alive, want men to pay for it as if it is alive.

“Prospective fathers should be on the hook for paying child support from the moment of conception.”

And this only effects men. Non binary or women in lesbian relationships will not be effected. Already making thinks a discriminatory law.

But the ultimate comeback to this should be, “Why should I pay for something that’s not alive.” Wether you believe in abortion or not.

Manux005 · 2022-07-27T01:54:30+00:00

That's not child support. That's feminists making up an excuse for the government to give money to women. Why would you need child support for a child that isn't even here yet. You know what, it's a brilliant Idea. I'll start:"Hey government! Give me a million Dollars, in case I get cancer one day, and need to finance the treatment! What are you saying? I don't get money until I actually have cancer? But why? Women get child support for a child that isn't even here too."

Skydiver860 · 2022-07-27T05:57:18+00:00

Thank god I got a vasectomy.

HyeVltg3 · 2022-07-27T06:30:18+00:00

Put your stocks in vasectomies

ISmellLikeBlackTea · 2022-07-27T08:02:02+00:00

Perfectly alright, but 50/50 on parental rights and DNA testing made mandatory.

az226 · 2022-07-27T08:58:19+00:00

With DNA tests costing maybe $20 in underlying lab fees, how come a DNA test isn’t required for purposes of determining paternity for child support?

MaxTheCatigator · 2022-07-27T09:43:19+00:00

It's an admission that the new life begins with conception (duh!), and that abortion is murder.

PQKN051502 · 2022-07-27T10:17:46+00:00

Weren't there some tradcons wanting people here to vote straight ticket republican because of how they said democrats don't care about reproductive rights of men and they don't want to pay child support for years? This bill was sponsored by republicans and extends child support to the time that a woman first gets pregnant.

Tradcons are not your friend.

TheNerdWonder · 2022-07-27T11:58:38+00:00

Because this is somehow easier than leaving abortion alone and addresses the mess that the conservatives caused by overturning Roe as part of their efforts to push an unpopular agenda that doesn't help women and most certainly, men. 🙄

SappySoulTaker · 2022-07-27T14:04:38+00:00

Can fuck right off with this noise lol

Nacht_Waya · 2022-07-27T14:46:47+00:00

It's a dodge to get men to support the killing of babies.

sijsk89 · 2022-07-27T15:40:35+00:00

I'm pro choice but life at conception as well so this sounds fine to me. It's trash though if they don't require a dna test to prove paternity, and it looks like only the mother gets to decide if that's required. So down the drain it goes.

Highwayman90 · 2022-07-27T16:15:58+00:00

I would strongly support this if the state were on the hook until a paternity test were done, at which point the father could be hit with back-payments (on a reasonable payment plan of course). The father should also have an appeals process to challenge a first DNA test (in case of chicanery or legitimate laboratory error).

WhyIsHeSoSick2 · 2022-07-27T16:18:03+00:00

This is a disaster. Government needs to stay out of our lives. They always find a way to inch their way into our lives.

itsmematthewc · 2022-07-27T16:40:50+00:00

So this is the consequence of the overturning of Roe v. Wade? Men have to suffer the consequences of being forced to parent an unwanted child too? Man this world is really going to shit

SunosUnix · 2022-07-27T16:53:53+00:00

Time to get a vasectomy

25 is old enough, yeah? I think so.

2022-07-27T19:03:29+00:00

Get a vasectomy guys. If you want kids in the future, freeze your sperm. Never leave birth control up to a woman.

Halobruhv · 2022-07-27T02:19:19+00:00

I thought an unborn child was a clump of cell?

SpookieDookie483 · 2022-07-27T06:33:23+00:00

I think it is okay. Why? If women go to jail for murder of unborn if they abort. Guys are the only one going to jail if they don't wanna be a parent. Women? Nah, they can murder it even if the guy doesn't want them to.

tthechosendummy · 2022-07-27T14:12:53+00:00

More reason to not have relations until married. I’m really hoping that bills like this finally strangle hook up culture.

With that said, be careful out here guys, the rate of women trying to pull nonsense has gone up.

Raining_Hope · 2022-07-27T07:49:12+00:00

In order to stand against abortion there needs to be done thing to help the mothers. And now there are states that have made abortion illegal.

I know I'm biased on this issue because alI don't agree with abortion, and I think our culture is too casual when it comes to sex. So I'm not looking at the issue as much from the perspective of men being harmed by the law as much as I'm looking at it from the lens that we shouldn't use abortion as a contraceptive.

dukesaces · 2022-07-27T11:59:17+00:00

I'm in favour of removing child support all together with the exception being those cases where the mother of the child was married to the baby daddy and the child was conceived within that marriage.

Ferbuggity · 2022-07-26T23:22:13+00:00

It's just another way for the Christian right to hammer its beliefs into policy.

N64crusader4 · 2022-07-27T09:40:22+00:00

Just some political gotcha law reacting to the overturning of roe v wade like those bills trying to criminalise masturbation as genocide.

It's more to make a point about abortion than a serious bill in and off itself.

Basketballjuice · 2022-07-27T01:28:59+00:00

if it's only in states where abortion is illegal, I'm in full support of it.

This kid is gonna be born, might as well force a bit of a nest egg to form to care for it.

HenryCGk · 2022-07-27T09:02:24+00:00

I kinda think conception to birth should be the only time that it really valid to go after the father, after that I would leave it up to the state to support which ever adults have custody of the child.

Once the child is born there are Baby Moses laws in all parts of the USA mean that born children can be given up at any point, (in my own country (the UK) its a tiny bit less easy but fundamentally possible to give up a born child). And so we can tell that who ever dose have custody of the child at that point chose too and continues to chose too.

The current system makes winning the children winning the divorce as you will lightly keep the home and take a portion of the other parents pay check. This is a bad intensive that dose put children with adults who see them as a ATM more than a person.

shifurc · 2022-07-27T12:29:06+00:00

So... It is a child at conception then? ;)

Glad I already had my kids. The world is too fucking stupid now.

m0mmyneedsabeer · 2022-07-27T12:59:51+00:00

As someone who has given birth to 3 babies, I just don't understand the point ?? If they mean to help cover medical bills, then just call it prenatal care support. Other than that, what kind of financial support does a fetus need??

Gamernator-GX · 2022-07-27T04:56:19+00:00

I don't approve of child support payments at any time, or alimony. If women are equal and can have a job, she can pay for the child's needs by herself. Anyone who is single is 100% financially responsible for themselves only, including all property and persons in their care. Nobody else pays your bills or taxes besides yourself. Expecting someone else to pay it for you is a lame excuse. If the mother can't afford the child, the child goes to full custody with the father. If he doesn't want the responsibility, the child goes into foster care, simple as that. The parents get visitation rights of course, if they want it. There are plenty of single parents who don't get child support for a number of reasons, including single foster parents. If women, especially single women, want to PROVE that they are equal to men, they need to stop relying on men for financial support at any time for any reason. The marriage contract terms were breached by the divorce. Just like all legal contracts when they are breached, the long term benefits become null and void! This means she needs to stop being a daddy's little princess after age 18, stop suckling out of the the wallet of her boyfriend, ex-husband and baby-daddy, and stop supporting legal programs that encourage female dependence on males. Women must take full 100% care of themselves without the support of others, and begin to work just as hard as men do in all fields of labor including manual work, industry and infrastructure, and quit lowering the standards of which they need to keep up with males (military PT tests for example). THEY ARE NOT EQUAL UNLESS THEY DO. If they cannot succeed in this, they need to realize it, admit it, get married, be a faithful and dependable wife, put on the apron and resume working at home full time. I fully support the fact that women CAN INDEED ACHIEVE THIS, as I'm attracted to the types of women who do, and I know many who have succeeded in it. They just need to stop whining, become mature, and stop relying on others. The benefits of equality of what women strive for is beyond law and social privileges. It is earned through hard work, not given as a handout. You would agree that a McDonalds crewman is not as equal as a fortune 500 business owner, because one works harder than the other, and has earned their benefits. The idea of taking money from the millionaire to pay for the wants of the lazy minimum wage earner is unfair, unearned and not a gauge to determine equality, neither financially or socially or morally. Thats Marxist Communism and Socialism, and I'll be damned if I ever let that happen in America! You get what you deserve through your own efforts in life. If you can't do it without help, you're not to be depended on for the simple things you need to take care of in life. Go back to your mama's basement and sleep on the couch down there with a joint in your hand and quit complaining that you're not rich and successful. You put yourself in that spot, and you've earned it, and earned nothing else. Don't ask people for a handout or you're a bum. I know this is harsh, but it's the truth.

theDicktatorr · 2022-07-27T00:20:28+00:00

Meh. Being pregnant requires a lot of doctors visits and extra vitamins and shit. You both got yourselves into it so you both can deal with it.

2022-07-27T13:02:37+00:00

This is awesome!

Umbran_scale · 2022-07-27T16:02:33+00:00

I'd much rather they just make abortion rights legal again, it's not even a meme anymore that guns have more rights than women and it's absolutely fucking disgusting how humanity has reached this point.

dumoktheartist · 2022-07-27T03:46:05+00:00

The pro birth movement will negatively affect both men and women by the time they’re done. Which is why men NEED to be pro choice.

2022-07-27T02:08:41+00:00

What do you think about the Unborn Child Support Act?

That's a good idea, if life starts a conception, so does child support, pregnancies aren't cheap.

PD: A DNA test can be made (without risk to mother or child) around the second month of pregnancy.

2022-07-27T05:09:12+00:00

I will NEVER have another kid in the U.S. I have one but any other will either be overseas or maybe adopted depending on the risks

milehin8tv · 2022-07-27T00:19:24+00:00

Well, if women can't get an abortion someone has to help pay for the prenatal care. You know those doctors visits and tests and all of the up keep for that pesky baby incubator. The only other remedies are to allow the right to abortion, men get vasectomies, or don't have sex.

m0mmyneedsabeer · 2022-07-27T06:58:46+00:00

What would even be the purpose of this...

stuart210 · 2022-07-27T09:08:58+00:00

Wtf..

GnomeChompy · 2022-07-27T10:11:23+00:00

sigh At least it give more credence for the concept of paper abortion.

alialahmad1997 · 2022-07-27T11:54:11+00:00

Maybe but there need to be some regulation Eaither DNA test now or the mother can ask for back child support later or the father pay instantly with test later but can sue back money with interest

lewis1927 · 2022-07-27T13:45:44+00:00

We need stricter laws on child support

Skywarriorad · 2022-07-27T15:49:42+00:00

WilfulAphid · 2022-07-27T16:20:17+00:00

Anything to keep the state from having to actually invest in child rearing, an activity that benefits the state massively but typically is a massive cost for parents.

LadyNCO · 2022-07-27T16:47:52+00:00

Well, as a woman; this pisses me off. Yes, I get it; some women have been raped or molested and as a result end up pregnant. I will never deny that; as I myself was subjected to both. Though, I didn't get pregnant, thank God. If this passes and they wait until the child is born to perform the paternity test; the woman should have to reimburse the man for 100% of all money he gave her; all the way to garnishing her wages, income tax returns etc. Perhaps with that much on the line; save for rape/incest, ladies will be more wise in their decisions or just all become lesbians and alleviate the issue altogether.

AmorphousApathy · 2022-07-27T17:18:14+00:00

In NY State, many many years ago, a child support order could have "confinement costs" added. These were costs associated with pregnancy.

jayval90 · 2022-07-27T17:49:11+00:00

I think it's a step in the right direction. Sex should have a cost for all parties involved.

A solution to the child support fraud case could be to allow paternity tests after the child is 18 to hold up in fraud court, and subject the woman to liability to return all child support to the frauded non-father if she declined a paternity test when asked.

reallife-491 · 2022-07-27T18:08:40+00:00

Men time to double strap up and go get a vasectomy.

Preform_Perform · 2022-07-27T19:59:27+00:00

If it were implemented properly, sure.

Will it be implemented properly? No.

pbj_sammichez · 2022-07-27T21:38:13+00:00

I mean, if child support were handled ethically to begin with then I wouldn't mind it. Prenatal care isn't free. The problem is that this enables so many women to financially abuse so many more men. I'm not a fan.

Let's just get single-payer healthcare. Then the medical stuff is a non-issue. If we did it right, socializing healthcare would benefit everyone except the billionaires. Every billionaire can eat a sack of dicks. I don't judge their quality of character by the millions they give to charity. I judge their quality by the billions they keep. It's not what they give that matters, it's how much they keep. Fuck them and their bullshit. If you have a net worth over $1 million then you are my socioeconomic enemy and I will never feel bad if you are suddenly forced to pay taxes fairly. Eat a dick... Useless, spoiled, opportunistic, leeches...

Greg_W_Allan · 2022-07-28T00:20:25+00:00

All of a sudden life begins at conception?

test90001 · 2022-07-28T01:05:22+00:00

It's obviously an attempt at trolling. The idea is to question the idea that life begins at conception.

MadBlackGreek · 2022-07-28T04:09:32+00:00

Because of course they need more wats to fuck over honest citizens-with-penises.

ChadWolf98 · 2022-07-28T15:25:42+00:00

I am pro life so I think this is strenghening fetal rights. 9ther than that maybe its time to shake up the current status quo qnd make paternity test a common and socially accepted procedure. The only thing that stands between its commonness is women's ego.

NotMyOnlyAccount11 · 2022-08-01T11:03:00+00:00

I just want the ability to walk away. I don't care what they get or don't get.

Edit: You can't do a DNA test, so this is unenforceable.

Men should never have to pay for a child they never wanted.

Title	[USA] What do you think about the Unborn Child Support Act?
Author	Lord-Herek
Upvotes	290
Comments	338
Date	July 26, 2022 11:13 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/w8y7f4/usa_what_do_you_think_about_the_unborn_child/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/usa-what-do-you-think-about-the-unborn-child.1125595 https://theredarchive.com/post/1125595

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