TheRedArchive

~ archived since 2018 ~

  • Subreddits

      Popular

    • /r/askTRP
    • /r/TheRedPill
    • /r/MarriedRedPill
    • /r/MensRights
    • /r/MGTOW
    • /r/PurplePillDebate
    • /r/WhereAreAllTheGoodMen
    • Other

    • /r/AllPillDebate
    • /r/AlreadyRed
    • /r/altTRP
    • /r/AntiFeminists
    • /r/askFDS
    • /r/askMRP
    • /r/askRPC
    • /r/becomeaman
    • /r/BlackPillScience
    • /r/Chadfish
    • /r/Divorce_Men
    • /r/EverydayMisandry
    • /r/ExRedPill
    • /r/FemaleDatingStrategy
    • /r/FeminismStopsWhen
    • /r/GEOTRP
    • /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
    • /r/MalePsychology
    • /r/Male_Studies
    • /r/MenSupportMen
    • /r/MGTOW2
    • /r/MuslimRedPill
    • /r/newTRP
    • /r/PussyPass
    • /r/PussyPassDenied
    • /r/RedPillBooks
    • /r/RedPillParenting
    • /r/RedPillWives
    • /r/RedPillWomen
    • /r/RedPillWorkplace
    • /r/RPChristians
    • /r/seduction
    • /r/ThankTRP
    • /r/TheRedPillStories
    • /r/trpGAME
    • /r/TRPOffTopic
    • /r/TrueBlackPillMGTOW
    • /r/WhereAllTheGoodMenAre
  • Blogs

      Popular

    • Dalrock
    • Heartiste
    • Illimitable Men
    • Return of Kings
    • Rian Stone
    • The Rational Male
    • Woujo
    • Other

    • Artful Prudence
    • A Voice for Men
    • Alpha Game
    • Black Label Logic
    • Caleb Jones
    • Captain Capitalism
    • Corporate Machiavelli
    • Days of Game
    • Deep Strength
    • Dicipres
    • Donal Graeme
    • Female Misogynist
    • Free Northerner
    • Gaming My Wife
    • Good Looking Loser
    • Hawaiian Libertarian
    • In Mala Fide
    • KillToParty
    • Kill Your Inner Loser
    • Krauser PUA
    • LaidNYC
    • Married Man Sex Life
    • NO MA'AM
    • Omega Virgin Revolt
    • Pook's Mill
    • Random Xpat Rantings
    • Red Pill Theory
    • Red Pill Wifery
    • RedPillDad
    • RedPillDoctor
    • Seasons of Tumult and Discord
    • Sigma Frame
    • The Feminine Woman
    • The Futurist
    • The Masculine Principle
    • The Modern Man
    • The New Modern Man
    • The Obsidian Files
    • The Power Moves
    • The Private Man
    • The Red Pill Room
    • The Red Quest
    • The Rules Revisited
    • The Spearhead
    • Troy Francis
    • Wintery Knight
    • Young Man Red Pill
  • Books
  • Dictionary
  • @TRParchive
  • Please help TheRedArchive stay alive

Aussie Barber facing human rights court for not cutting a young girl's hair

iamnotfromtexas90

April 9, 2018
989 upvotes
/r/MensRights
https://www.9news.com.au/national/2018/04/09/12/14/hunters-hill-sydney-barber-facing-hreoc-haircut-dispute?ocid=Social-9NewsA
Download the post

Want to save the post for offline use on your device? Choose one of the download options below:

PDF TXT EPUB
Share
Share Tweet Reddit Email
Post Information
Title Aussie Barber facing human rights court for not cutting a young girl's hair
Author

iamnotfromtexas90

Upvotes 989
Comments 299
Date April 9, 2018 5:58 AM UTC
(8 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/8aw9vh/aussie_barber_facing_human_rights_court_for_not/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/aussie-barber-facing-human-rights-court-for-not.1178475
https://theredarchive.com/post/1178475
Top posts by iamnotfromtexas90

Mia Khalifa throws temper tantrum after being introduced on sports radio show as what she is--a former porn star.

5879 upvotes
March 2, 2019
/r/PussyPassDenied

Rob Schneider on "gender pay gap" in Hollywood.

4682 upvotes
May 16, 2018
/r/PussyPassDenied

After being called sexist, Bear Grylls added a women's team to survival reality show The Island. In the first 3 days, the women were lost in the jungle, injured, without fire, water, food, or shelter.

4597 upvotes
February 17, 2018
/r/PussyPassDenied

Brave 15 year old British kid gives speech disproving myths of modern feminism. His female teacher isn't pleased.

2380 upvotes
October 31, 2016
/r/MensRights

Woman who told the police that her Tesla that crashed was on Autopilot later admitted that she was on her phone

2196 upvotes
May 17, 2018
/r/PussyPassDenied

Female teacher rapes, sodomizes boy. NYPost headline: "Married teacher arrested for having sex with teen student" (archive)

2142 upvotes
June 25, 2017
/r/MensRights

Woman Tries to Get a Free Ride By Cancelling Uber on Driver Mid-Drive.

1936 upvotes
February 24, 2018
/r/PussyPassDenied

Men and patriots are fighting, trying to save France. The Thots on the other hand....

1632 upvotes
December 4, 2018
/r/MGTOW

Comments

[–]bigadz89 760 points761 points762 points 8 years ago (99 children) | Copy Link

In my opinion the mother, being a lawyer and therefore with some level of intellect, would have known that a barber shop is for men only and took her daughter into the shop purposely. Her agenda? To bring down the patriarchical institutions which don’t cater to both sexes. This is a prime example third wave feminists looking for discrimination that doesn’t exist.

[–]-manatease 314 points315 points316 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes, the mother was using her daughter as a pawn in her own battles. Fuck only knows the crap she's fed her daughter's impressionable mind since. Sick way of proving her paranoid delusions.

[–]Wisemanner 129 points130 points131 points 8 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link

Exactly. And it will be interesting to hear what the court decides. This being Australia, the court will no doubt do its utmost to appease the woman.

[–]dukunt 118 points119 points120 points 8 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

He didn't refuse to cut her hair because she's a girl but rather because he wasn't confident in his abilities to cut her hair. Two very different things. I don't think she'll win.

[–]squeak6666yw 42 points43 points44 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

funny enough if she wins he will just shave any girls hair off if they sit in his chair.

All the hair. buzzcut. its what he does and its what you wanted if you sit in his chair after his warning.

[–]Bing_Bang_Bam 9 points10 points11 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I like that neck shave on the back of the neck at the end.

[–]Sinsilenc 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

nope should have given her a mullet.

[–]rocelot7 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Its coming back boys. Its coming back.

[–]trygold 35 points36 points37 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Had he given the girl a bad haircut the mother would have claimed it was on purpose and sued anyway.

[–][deleted] 22 points23 points24 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Bingo

[–]TrueGrey 11 points12 points13 points 8 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Well that's what he claims.

The mother claims she only asked him to "run clippers through her daughter's undercut area and leave the rest alone" (which would heve been very reasonable/easy). She said the barber claimed he wanted to keep the shop for boys/men only and didn't say anything about techniques/skill/qualification at the time.

Unfortunately, there's no evidence whatsoever, and it's his word against hers, so really it should be thrown out, but it probably won't be.

[–]Spoonwood 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This barber payed a $750 fine for something similar: http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2015/09/08/barbershop-fined-for-refusing-to-cut-womans-hair/

[–]Cannon1 8 points9 points10 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The barber will be sentenced to death.

[–][deleted] 8 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]chobbo 64 points65 points66 points 8 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Clearly you are not from Australia, and therefore have not experienced the judicial system here.

BRB intruder breaks into home.

BRB getting sued by intruder who injured himself.

[–]mcavvacm 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Best to just kill the intruder outright then?

[–]HenryCGk 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

where do you think he from? I'm at a loss

[–]s0525mg2 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Has that actually happened?

[–][deleted] 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Eustace_Savage 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

That has never happened

I'm sure Australia doesn't

Mate, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about and yet you're making assumptions about how our legal system works. Don't make sweeping claims and then later say the claim is based on assumption. I can assure you our legal system is pants on head retarded. We also can't harm home invaders otherwise we'll be charged with murder and in often cases convicted. Shkreli went to jail for longer than most rapists and murders over here have.

[–]cant_fix_crazy 38 points39 points40 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This is a great example of a mentally ill crazy bitch (assuming the story is correct). The courts need to start making repercussions if someone brings such a dumb case to court. She should have to cover all his fees and pay him a little something for pain and suffering.

[–]littlefilms 16 points17 points18 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I bet she'd have no problem not taking her daughter to an Afro/black orientated barber shop since she'd probably expect them to have different standards and has no problem them catering to only specific people...

[–]414RequestURITooLong 26 points27 points28 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

being a lawyer and therefore with some level of intellect

You haven't met many lawyers, have you?

[–]bad_news_everybody 9 points10 points11 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Work in law office. Am not lawyer. A law degree seem to brings +20 knowledge in a specialized area and +100 confidence in all areas, with no modifier to sense. It can make a bright dude brighter, but in the hands of a diligent idiot, it makes them an overconfident diligent idiot.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

Its the Dunning–Kruger effect. Law is an extremely complicated subject and even with 4 years at uni you really only cover the essentials to get you to the top of "mount stupid" and give you the ability to start actually practicing law - if we had to study until we were actually competent we would be graduating at age 30 - and even then there's still too much to master in one lifetime. A lot of the skills you learn are related to critical thinking and examining information which makes you a lot brighter in day to day life no matter your field.

[–]bad_news_everybody 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

A lot of the skills you learn are related to critical thinking and examining information which makes you a lot brighter in day to day life no matter your field.

I hear that a lot, but there's a sort of "lawyer think" which I've noticed that seems to be of a form "if you can't prove it its not real". It's a useful sort of critical thinking sometimes, but I've seen it backfire in certain situations.

I do not work anywhere near a top tier firm though. I could charitably describe the place I work as a divorce mill.

[–]WallyWiff 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Your correct there, she is clearly looking for a fight and didn't have any intentions to get her daughters hair actually cut.

[–]ThirdTurnip 10 points11 points12 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Agreed.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Nah, I just think the mom wanted to save some coin on having a barber and not a salon cut her daughter's hair, and then completely became a bitch about it when he said no.

I don't think her INITIAL intent was malevolent, just the aftermath. All this over potentially spending $30 elsewhere. FFS.

[–]Throwawaysteve123456 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Lol, as a lawyer, she should know the HR jurisprudence is consistent throughout the commonlaw. When it comes to balancing the rights of the parties in this context, they will consider if the customer had any alternatives. This is by far the most important variable. However, inconvenience is an important variable, so it wouldn't be reasonable for her to have to drive an hour or two extra. So I guess as long as there were female hairdressers within a certain distance, that would be willing to cut a child's hair, then the argument falls apart. A terrible one at that.

[–]ThirdTurnip 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Interestingly there is another factor which someone raised over in the australia sub. It could have been illegal for him to cut the girl's hair under state law.

https://www.reddit.com/r/australia/comments/8b2kr8/australian_barber_sued_for_not_cutting_a_girls/dx3l8l9/

[–]NathanRav 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Probably wants money in damages to her daughters mental health too...

[+]Shivermetimberz -11 points-10 points-9 points 8 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

This is a prime example third wave feminists looking for discrimination that doesn’t exist.

I don't completely agree with this. Crazy ideology aside, this is still a (microscopic) kind of discrimination. Compare and contrast to the discrimination against men and boys that doesn't go to human rights courts, and gets shot down if it does. Y'know, the usual stuff like genital mutilation, conscription(i.e. slavery), tons of institutions that are for women only including homeless shelters and such, feminicide laws to make it a worse crime than "regular" homicide, gendered humanitarian aid policies(90+% goes to women, see Canada), Duluth models, Istanbul convention, and a million more.

[–]ZomboniPilot 40 points41 points42 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

He did not want to cut her hair because he really has no clue how to cut a girls hair. This guy more than likely just does some variation of fades all day.

he says it right in the article:

“I explained I’m not qualified to cut women's or girls’ hair. I’ve never done it.

[–]lasertits69 18 points19 points20 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

And I’m pretty sure that’s what you’re supposed to do as a professional licensee. You have to know your scope and your limits and not wing it if you don’t know what you’re doing.

[–]reddit__scrub 7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I've seen too many hairdressers in a barber shop that completely fuck up a guys hair. I totally get what this guy is saying.

[–]Apexbreed 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Or he could have just given the girl a fade. See how the mom would have liked that...

[–]Spoonwood 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This barber said he didn't have the proper equipment to cut women's hair (at least in the interview). He did have to pay a $750 fine.

http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2015/09/08/barbershop-fined-for-refusing-to-cut-womans-hair/

[–]eekamike 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

We can care about multiple things at once. An attack on male only service is important. From your own list: what if this wasn't "just" a barber, what if this guy ran a club for homeless men to get cleaned up for job interviews and he turned away a woman because he didn't know how to cut her hair and provide professional clothing?

I care about all the things you listed, but I also care that a man's life can so easily be negatively affected on the whim of a spiteful woman, and that people who provide male only services could potentially have to live in fear of a similar fate.

[–]seasonpasstoeattheas 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Is it discrimination if a hire a plumber and he won’t fix my roof?

[–][deleted] 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

There's no need to be misleading here, because this is clearly discrimination. What if the barber had said that he only knows how to cut kinky hair, or only knows how to cut straight hair?

The barber is admitting his range of expertise and experience is limited. Not very many people who work in such a profession are willing to confess that.

If has no experience cutting a girl's hair, why do you think he should take a chance and invite more hostile criticism for making even the slightest mistake?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Why would you draw the opposite conclusion from what I said?

Read my comment again?

[+]ORP7 -98 points-97 points-96 points 8 years ago (52 children) | Copy Link

I agree with the lawyer on this one. If the barber shops wants to specialize in men's styles, that is fine. However, refusing service to someone based on their sex is illegal.

Furthermore, I do not think this is relevant to men's rights--this is primarily about a woman's right to receive a service.

[–]Macismyname 77 points78 points79 points 8 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

In principle yes, but here you have the situation where the barber shop specializes in men's cuts. He only cuts men's hair and hairstyles. He's not turning the girl down because he doesn't want the extra business. He just doesn't know how to cut a woman's style haircut and doesn't want to fuck up the girl's hair.

This sexism he's being accused of? It's him being a responsible human being.

[+]rawbface -8 points-7 points-6 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

What if the daughter wanted a boy's cut?

[–]Muffinmanifest 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Well then we wouldn't be in this situation.

[–]rawbface -4 points-3 points-2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Would we? The story doesn't give enough detail. That might have been exactly what she was looking for.

[+]wredditcrew -31 points-30 points-29 points 8 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

In TFA, you'll note that she only wanted him to trim the undercut, which is firmly in the skillset of any decent barber.

The basis of the claim is that the barber shop refused to simply run the clippers through my daughter's undercut, because she was a girl.

"I indicated to him that I did not need him to style, cut or trim the rest of her hair, which is styled in a 'bob'.

[–]Grasshopper21 20 points21 points22 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

As a man who regularly gets haircuts. wtf is an undercut?

[–]tothecatmobile 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Cutting the sides and back short while keeping length on the top.

For a while it was probably what 90% of people going into a barber got.

[–]wredditcrew -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's where you have short hair that is underneath long hair. So if you have long hair on top that flows over the top of a number 3 or whatever, its an undercut.

[–]Azurenightsky 21 points22 points23 points 8 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Doesn't matter, you don't have a right to my services. Your laws cannot compel me to work. Fuck the legality of it, you have no dominion over me and my choices.

I am free to deny you my services just as you are free to deny me your own.

[–]tothecatmobile 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Try opening a shop only for white people and trying that argument.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points10 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

The double-edged sword of Civil Rights legislation - erosion of the freedom of association, first in business.

[+]tothecatmobile -11 points-10 points-9 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Well a business isn't a person, it doesn't have the same rights an individual gets.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

You know, before the Civil Rights Act of 1964, black americans were steadily doing better and better as they had been forced to create their own businesses.

When they suddenly had to compete with everyone else, all that steady economic progress went down the drain (not the only reason, but one of them).

[–]tothecatmobile 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeah, black Americans had it so good before the civil rights act.

[–]cyber_rigger 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

http://www.heraldonline.com/news/local/news-columns-blogs/andrew-dys/article94731097.html

[–][deleted] 55 points56 points57 points 8 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

I would agree if we eliminated women's only hair salons, woman only gyms and any other woman's only space. No? Then why not a mens only barber shop

[–]ORP7 8 points9 points10 points 8 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link

You have a point, and I think women-only gyms should be illegal. I think it is very rare for a yoga group to refuse male customers.

Also, add women-only hair salons and women-only supermarkets to the list of things I think should be illegal.

[–]Campotter 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Tell me the supermarket thing is not real?

[–]ORP7 -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I made that one up. Sorry, however, I don't really see much of a difference between a gym, train carriage, or supermarket.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

And how about women's only clothing stores? I think perfumes counters should go too. And makeup stores. /s

Horseshit! There's nothing wrong with businesses catering to specific sex, or sex interests. Don't like it, don't fucking spend your money there ya snowflake!

[–]ORP7 -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I still think there is something wrong with a perfume counter not allowing men to purchase their goods solely based on their sex. I'd also think there's something wrong with a barber shop that caters to whites-only.

Also, I've never seen Victoria's Secret bar men from entering.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Women-only supermarkets are a thing?

[–]ORP7 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Coming soon!

The really depressing thing is that it seems believable.

[–]-manatease 37 points38 points39 points 8 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

If it was illegal then gyms around the world are breaking the law with ladies days/nights. Let alone all of the female only gyms and office space, train carriages etc.

Let's face it, taking a girl with a bob to a barber shop is just troublemaking. If she had a crew cut then that's a different conversation, but the mother was just looking for trouble and amazingly found it.

[–]ORP7 8 points9 points10 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Very good points. I wish it wasn't all true, but it is.

Ladies' nights are notorious for opening up businesses to lawsuits.

[–]rawbface 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That is and should be illegal. At least in my home state it is.

[+]wredditcrew -15 points-14 points-13 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

It was an undercut underneath the bob. Didn't want the bob trimmed or restyled, just the uniform short hair cut. It's effectively a chuck of crew cut.

[–]-manatease 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't believe a word that troublemaking lawyer says.

[–]Azurenightsky 8 points9 points10 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Regardless, freedom to deny your services is the most fundamental human right. You cannot compel me to work for you, I am not a slave.

[–]rawbface 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I mean, that's demonstrably false. It's illegal to refuse business based on race, gender, or religion. (In the USA, not sure about Australia)

Remember the whole gay wedding cakes issue? It's only an issue because being gay is not a protected class. Being male or female is.

[+]Egalai -9 points-8 points-7 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Upvoting for visibility

[–]Greg_W_Allan 32 points33 points34 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I agree with the lawyer on this one.

Lawyer motivated first and foremost by gender ideology.

However, refusing service to someone based on their sex is illegal.

this is primarily about a woman's right to receive a service.

Interesting. Within a couple of hundred metres of my office are three gymnasiums which do refuse service on the basis of sex. Furthermore, due to abuse during my childhood there were certain types of help I needed. I was denied that help by government funded agencies for twenty five years. Only certain folk have a "right to receive a service" it seems.

this is primarily about a woman's right to receive a service.

Barbershops are among the few remaining male only environments. The growing denial of such spaces is a contributing factor to poor mental health and suicide among boys and men. It is very much a mens' rights issue.

[–]ORP7 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I can definitely agree with preserving male-only spaces if the battle for neutral spaces cannot be won.

[–]-manatease 17 points18 points19 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Since the drive is coming from the feminist side, they can open up all of their spaces first and then politely ask for the same in return. The way it's happening just now with the (formerly) Boy Scouts, Men's Sheds, fraternities in the USA, golf clubs, gentlemen's clubs is that they want everybody else to change except them.

They don't even fully accept male feminists ffs, they are viewed not as fully fledged feminists, but as "allies".

So there isn't a battle for neutral spaces, it's a battle for male spaces to be disbanded. There aren't gangs of feminists boycotting the Women's Institute or taking them to court, demanding they admit male members! Men aren't interested in joining and the vast majority of women do not give a shit that there a male and female only spaces out there.

Just look at what happens with "gender neutral" bathrooms. The women's one tends to stay for women and the men's is changed. A microcosm of the wider world in the unlikely form of toilets.

[–]ORP7 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Sad, but true. I can understand the battle to preserve spaces.

[–]-manatease 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The honourable thing to do would be to lead by example, however on enough occasions we have witnessed zero impetus to change female only spaces to neutral even after comparable male spaces have buckled to being told to "move with the times". So the chances of feminists doing the honourable thing and leading the issue from the female side is close to zero.

I can understand the battle to preserve spaces.

The main point is that there isn't a battle to preserve female spaces at all, it's taken as given that the Girl Guides do their own thing, for example. But new girl recruits in the formerly Boy Scouts now outnumber boys 2 to 1 and that's apparently modern and great too.

There's a lot of double-speak going on with this issue, but feminists (female and male alike) would do well to sort their own house out first before attacking others for doing what they not only permit, but endorse women/girls doing.

[–][deleted] 24 points25 points26 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

I agree with the lawyer on this one. If the barber shops wants to specialize in men's styles, that is fine. However, refusing service to someone based on their sex is illegal.

Shouldn't be.

Furthermore, I do not think this is relevant to men's rights--this is primarily about a woman's right to receive a service.

What about a business' right to not take someone's money?

[+]ORP7 -9 points-8 points-7 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

They have the right not to take their money. They just can't do it based on a protected class.

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points16 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

They just can't do it based on a protected class.

Then they don't have the right.

[+]wredditcrew -15 points-14 points-13 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

To discriminate based on gender or race or any other similar grounds?

[–][deleted] 17 points18 points19 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You mean like women's only gyms... those are legal in Australia.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Anything. I want asshats to be allowed to discriminate for any reason, so I know to not give them my money.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Tell that to the women only gyms.

[–]Katman666 14 points15 points16 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

So he should have gotten her to sign something stating she understands that he doesnt have the required skills but wants to go ahead anyway.

Then proceed to absolutely butcher the haircut.

[–]Grasshopper21 13 points14 points15 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

except the dude is obviously a decent person and not a scum bag

[–]ZomboniPilot 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I believe that poor girl is punished enough having a mother like that, she does not need the further humiliation of a barber wrecking her hair as well.

[–]Katman666 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

My point was that he was in a no win situation. If he cut her hair and fucked it up, chances are the mum would be suing for that.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'd rather be sued in an actual court where I'm innocent until proven guilty than a "Human Rights Court" which is just another Kangaroo Court.

[–]twishart 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

haha those don't exist

/s

[–]rawbface 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree with you. What if her daughter wanted a boy's cut? We don't have enough detail to know that.

The idea of a barber shop being a man's "safe space" is hypocritical and absurd.

[–][deleted] 325 points326 points327 points 8 years ago* (20 children) | Copy Link

This is absurd.

"A claim has been brought against Hunters Hill Barber Shop in the Federal Circuit Court for an alleged breach of the Sex Discrimination Act. The basis of the claim is that the barber shop refused to simply run the clippers through my daughter's undercut, because she was a girl.

"I indicated to him that I did not need him to style, cut or trim the rest of her hair, which is styled in a 'bob'.

This lady is just looking for ways to sue people. A bob is not a men's hair style. He probably doesn't even know what is considered the "undercut" of a bob. Why would he know? He cuts men's/boy's hair, not women's/girl's.

Disgusting that they don't name this troll to "protect the identity of the daughter". What about the barber's children? It's fine to run him through the mud.

Your daughter wasn't embarrassed lady, you're using her as a tool to sue. I don't believe her at all.

[–]ky_biker 128 points129 points130 points 8 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

They actually do name her in one of the picture captions

The mother of the young girl, lawyer Amy Carr, claimed he breached anti-discrimination laws, despite the required skills to cut women's and men's hair being different. Picture: 9NEWS.

[–][deleted] 66 points67 points68 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Well they're idiots then. lol

The complainant, who 9News.com.au is not naming to avoid identifying her daughter, supplied the following statement.

[–]ky_biker 12 points13 points14 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Mm hmm

[–]genisthesage 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Fuckin wat? Whoever check the article before it went out didn't do a good job, lol

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

I usually don't read the picture captions* since they're mostly redundant information... apparently this time it was actually information they said in the article they'd not give. Who would've thought? So funny.

[–][deleted] 8 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]ky_biker 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

maybe some people should protest her employment with this company and it's supporters?

[–][deleted] 8 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]superhobo666 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

she is using her professional life (she is a fucking lawyer, come on.) to file frivolous discrimination suits, fuck her professional life.

[–]ky_biker 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

fair point

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Damn, as much as i want to because it was done to me that way... you are right. I cant let myself turn into one of them.

[–]DepressiveVortex 27 points28 points29 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I would think she would be embarrassed, by her mother's behaviour.

[–]pitstatic 22 points23 points24 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

/r/raisedbynarcissists

[–]publicbigguns 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm going to guess this is just normal behavior for the mom.

[–]squeak6666yw 8 points9 points10 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

they actually say in the article that barbers didn't need any certification until like 2 years ago. Hairdressers do so he might literally not have the legal ability to cut a woman's hair because he isn't certified.

[–]dryfire 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

run the clippers through my daughter's undercut

What does this mean exactly? Because when I hear it I think of the haircut where they shave like 1/3 of the way up their head with the top still being long... but I don't think that's what it means.

[–]TrueGrey -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Part of her hair is shaved short. That area grows out fast, relative to its short length, and it requires frequent maintenance to keep that look.

It would make perfect sense to go to a cheap barber instead of a salon to just touch up that one area (which requires very little skill/time, and is exactly like a boy's cut), and honestly if that's what she actually asked for, it would make perfect sense for him to say "no problem."

If he denied this request, he probably IS sexist, but it's also very probable that she is lying, and this isn't the request she actually made, but rather a carefully crafted story to help her win the case.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

OOOOOOOOR, he's like the person you're replying to and not sure wtf that means and doesn't want to chance fucking it up. If she's already fighting him, then her not being happy with how he does it would end badly for him too. So better to just send her on her way.

[–]bendalazzi 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

If that's all it is, buy a pair a clippers and do it yourself if spending money on how your daughter looks is of such concern for a LAWYER!?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

But she's a lawyer who needs work, and cutting the daughter's hair herself wont give her anyone to sue.

[–]NecroHexr 179 points180 points181 points 8 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

What a fucking dumb thing to whinge about. Poor guy, he looks so placid in the picture. Barbering doesn't exactly make you a lot of money and it's hard work, hope the guy makes it out alive.

[–]ThirdTurnip 82 points83 points84 points 8 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

I'm concerned that he might lose.

If he does, I really hope the judge doesn't hit him with any punitive damages. It's already wrong that he has to pay the legal fees to fight this.

[–][deleted] 66 points67 points68 points 8 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

He is going to lose. There could be a womans only salon right beside his shop and he will still lose. This person brought hwr daughter there just to cause a scene. Showing her daughter that you find a someone you can screw over and then you push really hard.

[–]bastion72 74 points75 points76 points 8 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

He said there was a salon two doors down, across the street and one around the corner. She didn't care about that.

This is like going to an electrician with a plumbing problem then suing when they refuse to do the work.

[–][deleted] 34 points35 points36 points 8 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Unfortunately, vagina. She'll screech till she wins

[–]bastion72 13 points14 points15 points 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Sadly, true. The misogyny of this guy is too much for the strong independent womyn to bare. Xhe needs the courts to demand that this unqualified guy cut xer daughters hair.

[–]pitstatic 7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

daughters

Did zhor just assume xhir's genders?

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I've decided my pronoun is !# (and a squiggly line that my racist/sexist/normal hetero phone can't make and I am offended that people don't use it. /s

[–]harleypig 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Is that pronounced 'bangshesquiggle' or 'bangpoundsquiggle'?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Its a clicking of the tongue followed by a "nnnnrrrrrggggg" sound and the squiggle mark involves hands in the air with index fingers pointing upwards and thumbs turned out, turning counter clockwise while making a little growling/shree noise. Not addressing me like this hurts my feel feels, and you are sexist/racist and normo phobic.

[–]NecroHexr 54 points55 points56 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

He should hopefully file a quick civil suit for loss of wages (time he could've spent on his job) as well as legal fees and punitive damage to his image.

[–]cant_fix_crazy 11 points12 points13 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

From what I’ve read/heard about the way Australia treats men, he could be pretty fucked.

[–]Tymalic 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Well we should some howget him to open a Gofundme or something.

[–]_pulsar 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

whinge

I see this so much that I'm starting to wonder if this is actually a word in different countries??

[–]NecroHexr 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

By dictionary, to whinge is to complain persistently.

Imo, she was complaining so much so that she took the matter to court.

[–][deleted] 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Azurenightsky 37 points38 points39 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Amy Carr, says so in one of the pictures in the article. Top tier journalism.

[–]gooberfishie 18 points19 points20 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Whats really funny is she claims to support small startup businesses.

http://www.insideeagles.com.au/amy-carr/

[–]Str8OuttaTheBoneZone 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

She'll only support those that fit her narrow, discriminatory worldview. Truly a modern feminist.

[–]guillemqv 36 points37 points38 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

And if he had cut her hair and didn't do it right, we would probably be sued for doing it on purpouse... Poor guy, and what a bitch... using her daughter to push her agenda...

[–]Jesus_marley 56 points57 points58 points 8 years ago (52 children) | Copy Link

If i walk into a shop asking for a service, and the shopkeeper tells me that they are not qualified to perform that service, I am not going to insist they do it.

If this guy is smart, he should offer to demonstrate for the court and then proceed to completely butcher the girls hair as proof that he was not qualified to perform the task being demanded of him. If the complainant wishes to pay for his training so that he can cut women and girls hair, then I'm sure there wouldn't be an issue. but until that happens, this woman needs to grow the fuck up...

[–]Grasshopper21 41 points42 points43 points 8 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link

the guy should not be forced to acquire skills he doesn't want

[+]Drinkus -45 points-44 points-43 points 8 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

He had the skills to do what was being asked though

[–]Smallzfry 15 points16 points17 points 8 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

Probably not, men's and women's hair styles tend to be pretty different, and I'd he's in a barber shop then I bet he specializes in men's cuts.

[+]Drinkus -25 points-24 points-23 points 8 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

Lol she wanted him to trim an existing undercut, its a portion of shaved hair, its a skill he has, read the article.

[–][deleted] 8 years ago* (13 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[+]Drinkus -26 points-25 points-24 points 8 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

I dont understand this subreddit, is it like, pro-discrimination or something?

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points10 points 8 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

No, we are pro freedom, and forcing a guy to do something he neither has the skills for or desire to do is anti-freedom.

[+]Drinkus -6 points-5 points-4 points 8 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

He has the skills for what was requested, this is clear. He doesn't have the desire, due to discrimination, again I ask, would YOU be for it if he refused to do a technique he does regularly, but on a black person's head?

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points10 points 8 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Yes, absolutely. I'm also for it if a black barber refuses to cut a white person's hair. Ironically, those two types of hair are different and probably require different skills. So thanks for helping me make my point. Now, I won't support people who discriminate purely for discrimination sakes, but they should have the right. Enough people voting with their wallet will insure people like that fail.

[–]Randy_Dream_Weaver 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Black and white hair is completely different. The styling is completely different. She didn't go into a black barber shop because it's even more ridiculous than going into a white barber shop. You're "argument" is baseless.

[–]TrueGrey -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I think 90% of them didn't read the article and don't realize her claim was a very simple request he was definitely qualified to do (trim an undercut).

The other 10% just think she's lying (making a different request),or at least has zero evidence, and in a his-word-against-hers situation, you have to side with the accused.

[–]v574v 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

A ‘bob’ is a very specific hairstyle for women.

I image searched for ‘bob hairstyle men’ and a picture of Kurt Cobain was one of the top images which isn’t a ‘bob’ hairstyle at all but then I searched for ‘bob hairstyle women’ and I got the universal female hair style with hundreds of images of different women all with a very specific style.

[–]Drinkus 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

He wasnt asked to cut or style any part of the bob. Just the undercut. Its just shaving.

[–]Randy_Dream_Weaver 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Just leave this sub.

[–]cant_fix_crazy 16 points17 points18 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Then she’ll sue him for fucking up the hair.

[–]TrueGrey 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Just give her the super short cut every boy of her age asks for and say "You asked for it"

[+]Meewah -14 points-13 points-12 points 8 years ago (28 children) | Copy Link

If you can do a fade, you can do an undercut. It's just shaving a section of hair to one length in that whole area. My sister goes to a barber to get her undercut shaved all the time but when she doesn't have the time, I can do it in my kitchen easily. I just can't shave the designs into it.

[–]Jesus_marley 19 points20 points21 points 8 years ago (27 children) | Copy Link

being able to do a thing and being qualified to do it are very different things.

[–]guyau 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The fact that he was being made to do something he supposedley couldn't do is not the issue. Of course he had the ability to do it, those who say otherwise are just being obtuse. All had to do shave a part of her head. The real issue is that this man was clearly baited, that he may face charges for offering a traditional gender specific service (of which society has plenty others, the majority of which are female exclusive). He was probably should have made an exception and cut her hair from courtesy, but that he had the legal and moral duty to cut her hair is ridiculous.

[+]Meewah -14 points-13 points-12 points 8 years ago (25 children) | Copy Link

If you're a barber who isn't qualified to shave a section of hair down to the same length across the whole section, you're not qualified to be a barber at all.

[–]cublinka 14 points15 points16 points 8 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

how hard is it to understand? the man does not have a "magic stamp" (qualification) saying he is allowed to cut a females hair. I'm sure a butcher could do a pretty good job of amputating someones leg but he sure as hell isn't qualified to do it

[–]MRA-automatron-2kb 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

that's a good analogy !

[+]Meewah -16 points-15 points-14 points 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Wut. Lmao. You don't need a "magic stamp" to shave a female's head in the same manner you shave a male's. That's absurd. If you can't shave a section of hair on a female, you can't do it on a male. It's that simple. There is no special qualification for shaving female heads 🤣🤣

And your analogy is off. It would make more sense if you said, "a butcher knows how to butcher a female pig but isn't qualified to butcher a male pig" when they're done the same fuckin way.

[–]DrYoshiyahu 9 points10 points11 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

to shave a female's head in the same manner you shave a male's

I'm absolutely convinced you didn't read the article at all.

“The skills are different. Look up barber and it says 'a place where men get their hair cut'.”

The Australian Hairdressing Council’s Sandy Chong said there are different techniques used when cutting men’s and women’s hair.

“Someone like Mr Rahim - (after) cutting only men’s hair for so many years... I understand why he wouldn’t be comfortable cutting women’s hair.”

[–]Meewah 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

There are. I've done it. In cosmetology school, I cut men's and women's hair. I also have done an undercut. You shave men's heads the exact same way you shave women's heads. You CUT them differently but you do not shave them differently.

[–]DrYoshiyahu 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

You would need to actually see the girl's hair to be sure of that. For a man who has never done a woman's hair, and has almost certainly never done an undercut on a bob, it's not insignificant to ask him to use male grooming techniques on a female hairstyle.

[–]Meewah -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

So what you're saying is he's never had a man with long hair come into his shop to get an undercut? Because that used to be a really big style with men and women alike and it's done the exact same way.

[–]genisthesage 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This whole argument is off topic. It's about his right to refuse service to anyone he wants. If he only wants to serve a male clientele, then that's his right. Not even touching on the fact if he is or isn't comfortable cutting a woman's hair.

[+]guyau -6 points-5 points-4 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

The distance between hacking off a limb with a meat cleaver and surgical amputation is infinitely greater than shaving a part of a man's head and shaving a part of a women's head.

[–]cublinka 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Hence why i used it for the analogy. It's still the same principle...

[–]guyau -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

The point was that the two terms of the analogy are not functionally identical, therefore the analogy doesn't hold: the difference between hacking off a limb and surgery is nothing like the difference between shaving a female and male head precisely because the difference in skill, technique, time, risk etc between butchering and surgery is far greater than that between shaving a guys or girls head. no identify of relation, no true analogy.

[–]cublinka 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I was more hinting at the qualification difference.. Technically they can both be done by either party but it still wouldn't be ok to do due the lack of qualification.

[–]guyau 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

But a butcher couldn't do what a surgeon does, that's my point: medical amputation does not ressemble butchering. Saying they're both in the business of chopping off limbs (which you built the analogy on) is way too tenuous to get the analogy of the ground. May as well call me a surgeon because I pull wings of a cooked chicken before eating it.

[–]Jesus_marley 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

he's absolutely qualified to be a barber. He does not have a stylists licence, which is what he needs to cut women's hair. Not only that, but there are significant expectations when it comes to cutting womens hair that simply aren't there when cutting men's. That is one of the biggest reasons why it costs more to cut womens hair than mens. The point here though, is that the woman wanted something that he was not able to give, and in a fit of pique, brought down the power of the state upon him to avenge her oppression.

[–]Meewah -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

She didn't ask him to cut her hair. She asked him to shave an area in the back. I am not sure why so many of you don't understand that these are two separate things and the only qualification for what she asked him to do is "know how to run clippers over a section of hair". You do not have to know how to cut women's hair, not even a little bit, to do this.

It seems like you all want this to be a thing so bad you simply can't understand that there is a difference between cutting someone's hair and shaving someone's hair and while men's and women's hair are CUT differently, they are not shaved differently.

[–]Jesus_marley 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

It doesn't matter what he uses as a cutting device. The fact that she is female precludes him from being able to cut her hair as he has not received the proper certifications to do so. The hair is irrelevant. the style is irrelevant. Licensing and training are the only things that matter here.

[–]Meewah -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

That's completely false. A barber's license doesn't say you can only cut men's hair. That's pretty fucking absurd that you would think that. Pretty funny too. There is no special license for cutting women's hair. A barber can cut women's hair, legally, just like they can cut men's hair.

This is probably the funniest post I've seen today.

[–]Jesus_marley 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

http://www.news.com.au/finance/work/new-training-means-barbers-can-cut-their-teeth-for-men-not-women/news-story/bdde8cf2e65f31288604d4f3ff4d3748

well according to this article, A certificate in barbering is wholly separate from a certificate in hairdressing and people who take the barbering course can cut mens hair but not womens... So it would appear that your assertion is false. Have a good day.

[–]Meewah -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Except that went into effect two years ago and the article says that he has been cutting hair "for so many years". Which means he has the original certification, hairdresser III.

[–][deleted] 8 years ago* (8 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]ThirdTurnip 25 points26 points27 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Weirdly it doesn't appear to be the first such case.

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/woman-wins-battle-over-barber-shop-haircut

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-05/darwin-barber-refuses-woman-who-then-files-complaint/9509312

Unfortunately they might win.

Like one of those articles says, the barber shop industry may need to apply for a special exemption. It's stupid that they need to though.

[–]hjk85599g 31 points32 points33 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Australian judges are really 50/50. For all the shit America gets for electing judges, it really is a better system than unaccountable appointed judges.

[–]ThirdTurnip 17 points18 points19 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Definitely.

My dodgy arse lawyer was transparently working for the other side (aka the state government) and actually told me to ignore the advice of the Human Rights Commission (fed government).

My dodgy arse lawyer was soon after appointed to the judiciary by the state.

[–]mr_j_12 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I've been told "you can't say that, you're a man"

[–]mikesteane 9 points10 points11 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Why?

[–]hjk85599g 20 points21 points22 points 8 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Unpredictable, decisions based on their own moral compass and not the law, and aren't held accountable for shitty decisions. The shit ones are far to lenient on actual violent crimes then throw the book at people for irrelevant things like saying fuck in public and they are basically never taken off the bench.

[–]mr_j_12 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It'll go through, and the guy will lose.

[–]Spoonwood 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Well... for whatever it's worth, a similar complaint did NOT get thrown out in Pennsylvania:

http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2015/09/08/barbershop-fined-for-refusing-to-cut-womans-hair/

I don't know the legal differences.

[–]phoenix335 97 points98 points99 points 8 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

The human right to force other people to work for you against their will?

What human right is that?

[–]superhobo666 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

the right an american lesbian couple used to close down a christian bakery while there was still an LGBT friendly bakery in the same town.

[–][deleted] 8 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]tmone 31 points32 points33 points 8 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

The courts have ruled time and time again that these types of gender specific exclusions are legal and constitutional. This is where female only gyms come from.

So no. There is no discrimination going on. Or rather, we will soon see.

[–][deleted] 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]FubukiAmagi 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

That would be great, but it would still get thrown out anyway. The court doesn't care about shit like that when a woman has her ovaries in a twist.

[–]phoenix335 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

True.

And that is precisely why courts should never be involved unless people are injured, their property stolen / damaged or freely entered contracts broken. Not feelings hurt, not religious rules ignored, not "not giving them their way".

Courts should only in very limited and life and death related cases be able to force people to do something. In almost all cases, courts should only have the power to force to not do or cease doing something. (And the result should be a blacklist, ie things that are forbidden are listed and not the reverse, a whitelist as in "everything is verboten unless it's in the list of allowed things"),

[–]phoenix335 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

If the courts can force people to engage in contracts and perform work they absolutely don't want to perform, the result is a less free society.

There can be no human right to not be discriminated against unless freedom of association is removed as a human right. And since the first requires the forced cooperation of an unwilling part while the latter does not, the latter is preferable.

This is the difference between negative and positive rights.

This article explains these distinctions that better than I ever could hope to write.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_and_positive_rights

[+]Pathfinder24 -10 points-9 points-8 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Refusal of service to blacks can be justified with the same rhetoric. Your view needs to be more nuanced.

[–]phoenix335 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

That argument is correct and one could organize a society to achieve the goal of eradicating discrimination. The result is just the polar opposite of a free society.

People cannot be free and be forced to not discriminate at the same time.

If everyone freely transcends their human nature and chooses to not discriminate, all is well. But a free society cannot force it's people to enter contracts and perform work they don't want to.

We can always pretend that this wasn't the case, that we could find a way to force people to be good according to our own definition, but we will never get around the fact that forcing people to do X makes them less free.

I'm even willing to accept a gradual distinction between the one person bakery (the famous "Christian bakery gay wedding cake" incident), the small convenience store (the "Muslim store owner will not sell alcohol and forbid dogs from entering" topic) or this hairdresser who should not be forced to work for X and the huge multinational corporation with millions of customers who control large segments of the market to exert too much control over everyone (like Google deleting political content they don't agree with despite having a huge market share over online video content).

So it depends on what the most important values of society are. Egalitarian society or free society. We can't have both, unfortunately. And looking back at the 19th century history, everyone should be very sceptical of an egalitarian society or attempts to create it.

[+]theduncan -14 points-13 points-12 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

you are allowed to go, I do not like the look of you, go away. You are not allowed to go, your a female, I don't serve females.

[–]SinisterMJ 15 points16 points17 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

But you don't sue a gynocologist for not treating a man? Why would you sue a barber for not serving a woman? He has not specialized in it, and claims he has a good chance of screwing it up.

[–]MRA-automatron-2kb 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Or going to the Vet to get a medical diagnosis LOL.

[–]phoenix335 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Even if they hadn't specialized in one particular thing, it is still a valid question concerning how much free will can one person have concerning their work and association with other people.

Can one human being really be forced to work against their wishes to serve the interests of another?

It doesn't matter if that work is forced upon them because of anti discrimination laws or the stubborn will of an absolutist king. It only matters if one human being can be forced under threat of violence and ultimately even their death to bow down and work for someone they don't want to work for.

And we don't need to claim it's not forced labor. It is. If that barber doesn't comply, the court will sentence him to pay a fine, and a fine is simply more forced work. And if he doesn't comply, then it will be jail for him. And if he refused, he will be beaten. And if he still refused or responded to being beaten, he may even be killed by the police. So it is forced labor, just a few layers above it that will quickly be peeled back if he does not give in.

[–]babyfishm0uth 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

An undercut is a shave. Having had an undercut, I would not want a hairdresser who specializes in women's hair shaving mine.

[–]tmuhl 14 points15 points16 points 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Why is this type of dumb shit hitting our shores? Suppose it’s why I live in Melbourne the and not Sydney.

[–]mr_j_12 11 points12 points13 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

This shit hits us too in Vic. If you've/someone you know has been through family court or domestic violence stuff you'd have heard one a certain judge that doesn't like men.

[–]tmuhl 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Yeah that stuff really boils my blood. A lot of top Dads out there working hard for there kids after a relationship breakdowns.

[–]mr_j_12 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Some of the stories I've heard while. While waiting to go into court. One guy was living in the Bush in his Ute with his dog. Left house etc to his ex and she still wanted more. Guys that haven't seen there kids in over a year. A mate has it that bad he literally records and writes everything down. It's fucked!

[–]cant_fix_crazy 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I’ve got a couple friends that weren’t even Australian that got ass raped by Australian family court. Neither of them have seen their kids in years. Note to self: never go to Australia.

[–]mr_j_12 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If my son wasn't here I'd get out too.

[–]MisterDamage 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This suit was filed in the Federal Circuit Court. Meaning the same laws being applied in this case apply in Victoria the same as it applies in NSW. I'm afraid being in Australias second best city instead of Australias best city wont help much.

;)

[–]kingNero1570 14 points15 points16 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

This guy couldn't have won either way. Had he cut the girl's hair the mother would have found something wrong with it and sued him anyway. I hope they stick with this story, this guy need all the support he can get. As a woman, shit like this drove me away from this new "feminist" movement. It's not equal treatment they want. It's special treatment.

[–]MRA-automatron-2kb 7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I think that is what he was worried about, he could sense she was difficult to please.

[–]Lendari 38 points39 points40 points 8 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

Its amazing how entitled people are becoming when it comes to making other people do things for them. Why should anyone ever be obligated to cut your childs hair?

[–]Gambizzle 27 points28 points29 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Agreed. Replace men’s barber and hairdresser with iPhone repair shop and Android repair shop.

Will fix my iPhone? NO! We fix Androids here. There is an iPhone repairer across the road!!! BUT THEY CHARGE MORE!!! I’m sorry... iPhones are designer goods, so they are more expensive I guess. YOU JUST NEED TO INSTALL A NEW SCREEN!!! I dunno how to... never done it before... I’d probably break it further and you’d get even more pissed off at me for doing that. THE HUMANS RIGHTS POLICE WILL HEAR ABOUT THIS AND I WILL RUIN YOU!!!!!!! YOU MUST SERVE ME BECAUSE I AM FEMALE YOU SEXIST, WOMAN HATING, WIFE BEATING, OVER-PRIVELIGED, GOOD FOR NOTHING, WEAK, PIN-DICKED MALE!!!! Cool rant, I am now scared shitless because you’ll probably ruin my life completely, but I still can’t fix your phone...

[–]cant_fix_crazy 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You said entitled, but I think you meant crazy.

[–]Pathfinder24 -3 points-2 points-1 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Provided the girl is getting one of the cuts you provide (ie a boys cut) then the barber is morally compelled to do so. Idk if that is the case here.

[+]Drinkus -18 points-17 points-16 points 8 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

would you really be saying the same thing if this guy refused to cut black people's hair?

[–]DrYoshiyahu 16 points17 points18 points 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

That's a terrible analogy. A barber is literally, by definition, someone who grooms men's hair. It's not his job to cut women's hair, and he may not even be trained in it.

Serving exclusively white or black people is not part of his job description, nor is it a part of anyone's, but serving exclusively male clients, or at the very least, grooming exclusively male hairstyles, is his job description.

[–]WikiTextBot 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Barber

A barber (from the Latin barba, "beard") is a person whose occupation is mainly to cut, dress, groom, style and shave men’s and boys' hair. A barber's place of work is known as a "barber shop" or a "barber's". Barber shops are also places of social interaction and public discourse. In some instances, barbershops are also public forums.


[ PM | Exclude me | Exclude from subreddit | FAQ / Information | Source ] Downvote to remove | v0.28

[+]Drinkus -11 points-10 points-9 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Women's hair is not different from men's hair. The request was within the scope of barber techniques. If the case is they don't do undercuts, sure I can respect it, but it shouldn't matter the sex of the patron. If it does, barbers should not exist by law.

[–]DrYoshiyahu 13 points14 points15 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

The hair might be the same but the hairstyles certainly aren't. That's why there's different qualifications and different stores catering to different clientele.

[+]Drinkus -7 points-6 points-5 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Sure and I'm confident part of the lawsuit will be the fact that the cutting that was requested was the same as the styles the barber does on men's hair

[–]Lendari 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Then why do salons charge more for "long hair" cuts? Gee could it be that they take more knowledge and time to perform?

Theres a reason most women dont go to barbershops. At the end of the day you get what you pay for amd you're paying for a 15 minute job.

Cutting long hair is different and not sexist to identify the differences.

[–]Drinkus 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

He wasnt asked to cut long hair hahahaha just read the article

[–]MRA-automatron-2kb 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If he didn't know how and told the customer, I think the customer would be happy for not ruining his hair.

[–]Lance_lake 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

would you really be saying the same thing if this guy refused to cut black people's hair?

Yes.

I used to date a black girl. The amount of time she spent on her hair was staggering.

[–]Lendari 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Because he wasn't qualified to? Its a harder argument to buy for sure. In anycase thats not what happened.

Theres no question cutting long hair takes a lot more skill and time. Even at a women's salon they tend to differentiate between a simple short haircut and long hair stylings for purely economic reason that one takes more time to perform. They just arent the same thing.

[–]Whipit 11 points12 points13 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Why does this article only show pictures of the man?

What's the woman's name? Where are the pictures of her?

So she just gets to anonymously sue and possibly ruin this hard working man's life?

And if he's not guilty does anything bad happen to the woman? Or does she just get to walk away from this in complete secrecy?

[–]Mefi282 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

http://www.insideeagles.com.au/amy-carr/

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's in the article a couple of commenters have mentioned they posted her name and picture. Her name is Amy (can't remember the last name)

[–]TibortheChechen 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"The mother of the young girl, lawyer Amy Carr, claimed he breached anti-discrimination laws, despite the required skills to cut women's and men's hair being different. Picture: 9NEWS."

[–]-DANNI- 7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Using your child to act your unsubstantiated social agenda targeted at an unsuspecting innocent man. Fabulous parenting.

[–]AcidJiles 7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

My only point in this matter is whatever is applied here is applied equally. Either all barbers shops must now serve members of the other sex and have no ability to refuse service or the status quo will continue with barbers making decisions on who they serve genderwise dependent on their skills and ability.

Interestingly this would set a precedent that while barber shops could for example refuse service to someone of their suggested gender with a horrible quality hair that hasn't been washed or is filled with lice etc or they want a style the stylist is not familiar with they will be unable to ever refuse service to anyone of the opposite sex as it might lead to an equality claim even if it is due other legitimate reasons.

[–]Gambizzle 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

Agreed. It’s easy to get taken away with the drama but I guess the point is that they feel there was gender discrimination so complained.

She sounds unplesant and belligerent... and I doubt I share a lot in common with her. However, can a barber say they only cut mens hair?

—-

Rant:
My suspicion is that she has one of those ‘sharp modern female’ styles (aka what I’d call a ‘power cut’) that looks easy but is really popular right now, takes more technique than it looks (looking ‘casual’ is always harder than not) and would cost $$$ at a hairdresser (particularly one in Hunters Hill - it is like millionaire central in Sydney, no joke... on the water, sea views everywhere, no houses for less than $5m). Mum’s probably parked her $$$ European SUV on the main street (in a disabled spot), shopped around, complained about all the prices of fancy womens haircuts and then been told quite politely that you can’t actually ‘just shave under the bob’. Thus, after murdering every hairdresser in town (treating them all like pesants who don’t deserve their set prices) she has taken out her rage on a male barber, fuelled further by the fact he charges less than hairdressers (because he does 2 cuts... shave it all off or short back and sides). I get why there would be zero apetite amongst hairdressers/barbers for listening to a belligerent, rich, powerful woman who is trying to screw them over and insult the skill required to do a Lady Gaga style haircut by saying you just need to shave in 1 or 2 places. Hey if it’s so easy, why doesn’t she buy a razor and do it herself? This kinda rich, priveliged woman is seriously the new face of feminism and it has to stop. When people who already have a lot more than everybody else start claiming they are victims of discrimination, I have to laugh at how out of touch they are.

[–]snorkelbagel 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I would believe it.

You get these in the US bringing their kids in to a clinic after consulting webMD for 20 minutes.

[–]phoneticau 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

you nailed the back story 100%

[–]putittogetherNOW 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Third wave Feminism is a cancer.

[–]Porkupine_Adams 13 points14 points15 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

So she assumed her daughter's gender?

[–]oscar2hot4u 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

"SHE assumed"! Now you're assuming their gender!? What right do you have! angry old lady voice.

[–]Porkupine_Adams -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

old lady voice

UMMM. SWEETIE

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

SWEETIE

Reeeeing intensifies

[–][deleted] 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]hamletgod 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Can we start a gofundme for his lawyer fees?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's fine for there to be a men's only or a women's only thing as long as it's not blatantly motivated by sexism. Men have different hair, different hair styles, different interests in products and company and atmosphere while they're getting their haircuts so it's perfectly okay to have a men's only barber. I hate SJW.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

“I haven’t been able to sleep. My wife hasn’t been able to sleep. I don’t understand why someone would do something like this,” Mr Rahim said.

This woman is doing this because she's a lawyer and she wants to gain publicity, destroying this man's life in the process. As the article says there are 3 women's hair salons within a minute's walk of his barbershop, this is the equivalent of the gay couple that tried to demand a cake at the only baker's in the city that is proudly and publicly religious. They had other options and they did it to create controversy and create this case, absolutely disgusting.

[–]M8753 8 points9 points10 points 8 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

Do barbers serve women who have really short hair?

[–][deleted] 15 points16 points17 points 8 years ago* (8 children) | Copy Link

Don't think a "bob" is what barbers usually deal with. Which is what this troll said her daughter's hair was.

I'm sure some barbers would serve women with actual men's haircuts. But this isn't one of those instances, so it's irrelevant.

[–]killcat 16 points17 points18 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

He should have cut it, like a boys, and then laughed when she complained.

[–]theduncan 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

charge what the salons, charge. and cash upfront.

[–]killcat 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Now that's even better.

[–]M8753 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, I was just thinking that if he previously had female clients or if he didn't serve men with long hair, then he couldn't really be accused of anything.

[–]wredditcrew -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

The undercut section of a bob with such an undercut, like this, is exactly what a barber would excel in.

[–]Grasshopper21 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

except that isn't a bob

[–]Meewah -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

He wasn't asked to cut the bob. He was asked to shave the undercut.

[–]MisterDamage 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The barber disagrees apparently.

[–]wredditcrew 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

They should do, and the barbers I've used in the UK will do. Likewise when I had long hair, back when I had enough hair, hairdressers would do it.

[–]MrkPrchzzIII 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

'Don't ever speak to me or my hair ever again! Got it?' Mother probably.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Meanwhile, still no human rights charges for cutting into a baby boy's penis.

[–]Frijid 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Why won't the gynecologist look at my dick???

[–]gk3coloursred 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If you're a barber with insurance against pissed off clients whom you are qualified to cut the hair of then you are likely uninsured in case of a mad bitch looking for a court case payment after insisting you do work you are not qualified to do. Surely this argument ought to be enough in a sane world?

[–]LiNxRocker 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I don’t know the laws in Australia but in Canada any private business owner can refuse to serve anyone, like my dad operates 3 McDonald’s restaurants and has removed many people from them over the last 8 years he’s been doing this, because they restaurants are private property the owners can remove anyone from the premises unless it’s like a cop with a warrant.

[–]elonsbattery 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

He can’t refuse anyone based on their gender, race or sexual orientation. Look up Canadian human rights commission.

[–]TibortheChechen 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

but in Canada any private business owner can refuse to serve anyone

BULLSHIT!

The SJW Tribunals would crucify him. Google the case of the lesbian who tried to get a haircut in a mslim barbershop in Toronto about 10 years ago.

[–]LiNxRocker 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

But then all they need to do is say it’s for a different reason.

[–]BruceCampbell123 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Women only spaces, not a problem. Men only spaces, THAT'S SEXIST!

[–]undersight 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't get the point of it. If this is an issue then womens only gyms are an issue too.

[–]NoxHexaDraconis 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Wants to get rid of specialty hair cutting establishments tailored for men does she? Let's nuke all the female oriented establishments for hair, and take out the nail salons, undergarment specialty stores, not to mention fine jewelry establishments while were at it.

[–]DontThrowSoCloseToMe 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm female. This is so dumb. Great Clips would probably do a better job than a barber who has only ever cut men's hair. It's totally different.

[–]jeff_the_nurse 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

If he loses, men should sue every single women’s shelter in Australia.

[–]DatOpenSauce 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Don't think you have to pay to stay in one of them though.

[–][deleted] 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]benjwgarner 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

No. It's not the kid's fault.

[–]XenoX101 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

He should have said he doesn't serve lawyers instead, easier case to win.

[–]LoganBlade13 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh for fucks sake

[–]v574v 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

He needs to claim that his barber shop is a safe space where men are to be found in compromising positions that are gender sensitive.

Isn’t that how it’s done - we declare a ‘safe space’ and suddenly discrimination is permitted?

[–]btcftw1 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

He needs to claim that his barber shop is a safe space where men are to be found in compromising positions that are gender sensitive.

[–]Bigpappapunk 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

So are all traditional Barber Shops considered men only? Robs Chop Shop in Dallas was my first intro to a barber who had a no girl policy and he’s very strict on the rule. He reminds you of the rule when you call for an appointment and again before your appointment. Just assumed he had girl issues....

Dope barber and shop though for anyone in Dallas. The shop literally has 1 chair and 1 employee, which is Rob.

http://www.robschopshop.com

[–]TitanBrass 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

wut

[–]TibortheChechen 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This has the stench of an islamophobic hate crime against the barber.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I did not need him to style, cut or trim the rest of her hair,

Anyone who's even watched someone have their hair cut knows that's not a sensible request.

If you haven't this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ec0kGW0zL7I shows that with an undercut bob.

Notice how all the hair is pinned up all the way before making the undercut, a barber simply doesn't need to know how to do that, that's a classic hairdressing technique. She's basically belittling the skill of hairdressers by assuming someone who only has barbering skills can do anything they can do.

You might as well sue a window-cleaner for refusing to remove your windows, clean them, and re-install them.

[–]KingRobotPrince 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Would she take legal advice from a barber? No. So she shouldn't tell a barber how to cut hair.

[–]bearslikeapples 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

fucking cut it yourself. save money and stop fucking with people

[–]bendalazzi 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If she is telling the truth that he refused because his barber shop is for men only, and he loses, surely that would set a nasty precedent? We should all go in to women's gyms wanting membership.

[–]human_not_robot 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I've been refused service at a salon that specialised in women's hair - even though my hair was long at the time and the style I wanted was a unisex style that they explicitly advertised in their front window. I walked in, went to the front desk, they told me sorry, they only cut women's hair, I shrugged and went somewhere else. No big deal.

If only I'd been a lawyer, maybe I could've got a nice payout for the harm that it caused me when I was discriminated against and forced to walk 100 metres to a different hairdresser down the street.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Been checking this story on facebook and people are almost entirely in support of this man, and calling this out as ridiculous. It's good to see.

[–]NathanRav 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Hands up, who here has a normal wife? I do. Where the actual fuck. Did these women go wrong? I don't understand.

[–]Jajshdhs 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[email protected] Is the vile woman’s email

[–]philtubbse 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

her email is [email protected]

[–]moustache1209 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[[email protected]](mailto:[email protected])

this may or may not be the womans email who sued him....

i'm just going to leave this here.....

[–]the_unseen_one 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

But, barbershops are for men. Would a barber even know how to cut and style a woman's hair when they are trained exclusively to work on men? Unless she was going in to have her beard trimmed and get a wicked fade, this is utterly fucking retarded.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The "Human Rights Court" should really be called "The Whingers Court of Hurt Fee Fee's". And sadly, the bar that's set for plaintiffs in the court of hurt fee fee's is incredibly low. I have no confidence that this guy would win even though the reason for the complaint in the first place is laughably absurd. The woman who complained is pure trash looking for a reason to take offence.

[+][deleted] -26 points-25 points-24 points 8 years ago* (11 children) | Copy Link

Dear God.

Barbering is about cutting hair SHORT. It's very detail oriented, and a specific skill and hours and hours of training in making sure hair is tapered from anywhere from skin to a half inch.

Hairdressing works in layers. It's a different skill set to know how the hair is going to lie and to cut it in ways that it will hang the right way. It isn't just a case of "take every hair and make it an inch shorter". In either barbering or hairdressing.

This is like walking up to a carpenter and saying "could you take that screwdriver of yours and repair my carburetor?"

Don't go to a hairdresser if you have short hair, don't go to a barber if you have long hair.

I cut women's hair all the time, but it's ONLY if and when they have very short hair. And this is key.... because...

But that being said, before you get out the pitchforks and torches, there's something very important here:

"he basis of the claim is that the barber shop refused to simply run the clippers through my daughter's undercut, because she was a girl. "

Whoops.

What he was asked to do was not even remotely touch the "hairdressered" part of the girl's haircut, but to wet and comb the long hair out of the way, and use clippers on the undercut parts of her hair. That he absolutely could have done with his skill set. This refusal was unreasonable and she does have a case I'm afraid.

[–]Xale8 8 points9 points10 points 8 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

And how does she have a case? Her claim very well sounds like an exaggeration of his account of what happened, specifically the “because she was a girl” part. Her claim is what you quoted, while his claim is that he was uncomfortable cutting a girl’s hair, as he felt he would mess it up, not simply because it was a girl. He has every right to feel so, and he even said he politely pointed the way to hairdressers that were VERY close by who would certainly do a much better job. If anything, I find what he did to be really upstanding. Rather than taking on a job for the money and most likely messing up the girl’s hair, he wanted to point them towards people who could do it well. Oh and the mother suing is a GROSS overreaction. Just because someone declines to supply a service to you for somewhat sensible reasons doesn’t mean you should go and try to ruin his livelihood for it.

And... key point here... barbers are mainly for men, and the man had exclusive experience cutting hair for men. He, understandably, was very uncomfortable with cutting the girl’s hair. I find nothing wrong with what he did, so long as he did it for the reasons he said.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Well, I think she has a case because having read what the woman asked for, and knowing how to do it, any objection he had would be completely shredded under cross-examination.

Barbering involves cutting hair very short. Hairdressing involves longer, layering of hair. They are two very different skill sets. If the mother had asked him to cut a bob, he could have refused, making the perfectly reasonable argument he has no idea how to do it. I would affirm in a court of law, indeed, barber training does not teach you how to do a competent job at what was asked for.

But here's the rub. What she asked him to do was perform an undercut, and leave the rest of the hair alone. That is absolutely something his training taught him how to do. Whether it's a bowl cut or an explicit undercut (think Brad Pitt in Inglorious Basterds) or one of those soccer-guy/Persian haircuts that are popular, the nature of that request is something he knows how to do, can do, specializes in and probably did at least five times that week already on male clients.

I'm not telling you what he should have or should not have done.

What it will come down to, in court - is did he have the skill set required to do what she asked, and the answer is yes. You can give your uneducated opinion on this, but I'm giving you an educated one. Her side will call in a barber school educator, and a couple of barbers who will, under oath, attest that there's no reason why he could not have simply combed her long hair out of the way and used a clipper to shorten only the parts that have already been buzzed.

Because he will have done that in barber college, and many, many, many times on men in his professional career.

If he's going to get up on the stand and admit under oath he doesn't have the skill to cut only certain parts of hair with clippers, he's going to be making the argument that he shouldn't have a barber's license.

I don't see why this is literally a federal case. There's any of a number of barbers who would have eyerolled and said, Miss, come here, sit down, I'll do it. I also think the mom is being incredibly unreasonable and vindictive.

I don't think this case should be being tried, it's a waste of court time.

I'm just weighing in on the fact that the argument he wants to make will be SHREDDED in cross-examination.

[–]Xale8 7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Okay since my opinion is so uneducated, then I suppose the Australian Hairdressing Council’s is too?

The Australian Hairdressing Council’s Sandy Chong said there are different techniques used when cutting men’s and women’s hair... “Someone like Mr Rahim - (after) cutting only men’s hair for so many years - probably has more skills than many of the teachers of the course. I understand why he wouldn’t be comfortable cutting women’s hair.”>

I guess your educated opinion is more valuable than that of the CEO and Chair of Board of the Australia Hairdressing Council. You got me there.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

What the AHC said was correct, and I said as much.

But I also read and quoted what the woman asked Mr. Rahim to do, and I can assure you he had the skill to do it.

I don't think the AHC read the specific request the woman made.

Keep in mind I'm not weighing in on whether her case SHOULD have merit - I think he should have the right to tell her to kick rocks.

Barbershops are "safe spaces" for a lot of men and we've done a lot of good in them, from impromptu counselling, grief counselling to promoting prostate cancer awareness and things like Movember. A men's only space like that has a lot of merit.

I'm merely weighing in, sir, on the fact that I know what she asked him to do, and he is not going to win that argument on cross-examination.

[–]Xale8 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

And her main reason for suing is that he was refusing service on the grounds that it was a girl, not just that his skills were insufficient. Regardless if he has the skills, the fact remains that he was uncomfortable to cut her hair, because he never cuts women/girl’s hair and has no experience, not because it was a girl.

The case went to the Human Rights and Equal Opportunity Commission, meaning the mother is suing mainly on the pretense that he refused service because it was a girl, rather than a question of his skillset. I’m still of the opinion that she has no case, because she went the route of sexism for the lawsuit, since refusing service from not having the skill set versus sexism are two very different things. Regardless of what is said, that’s how I see it, so I’ll end this discussion with that.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

He can’t argue he doesn’t have the skill set. She didn’t ask him to perform hairdressing but instead asked him to buzz a small amount of her hair to one length.

I’m merely explaining why what he is about to try in court will fail.

[–]Emochind 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

So he can argue he doesnt do "small services", which is exactly the anwser id get in my hometown.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

He should have.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

He can’t argue he doesn’t have the skill set. She didn’t ask him to perform hairdressing but instead asked him to buzz a small amount of her hair to one length.

I’m merely explaining why what he is about to try in court will fail.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That’s what he said. She is a girl so no.

That’s why he’s fucked. He shouldn’t be but it is what it is.

When I say has a case I mean legally you realize.

[–]wredditcrew 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The real bones of your comment are spot on. But the way you've written it:

But that being said, before you get out the pitchforks and torches, there's something very important here

You're being downvoted for the structure and style of your comment, not what you're actually saying, if you get me?

You've got first-hand experience, insight, and relevant analysis. I upvoted you, but you'll get much better results if you reposted a more succinct and differently structured comment.

Browse all authors
You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

© TheRedArchive 2026. All rights reserved.
created by /u/dream-hunter