Do men benefit from gender equality as well?

AstronautLoveShack · 2023-04-29T08:34:19+00:00

I have never dated a man who complained when I picked up the check or paid my share of the bills.

Pathosgrim · 2023-04-29T12:33:06+00:00

Men don't benefit from gender quality because we are still expected to make more money and shamed if we dont make more

HolyPenguine · 2023-04-29T12:08:41+00:00

When there’s gender equality, men have more freedom about how they express themselves and can be free from conforming to traditional gender roles such as being a provider.

And how many women want to take the provider role? As always with feminism, women's benefits are tangible and men's are theoretical.

nonplussedminus · 2023-04-29T09:36:22+00:00

I don't feel like I am more free to express myself. As a man, you are basically only allowed to play the role of a happy golden retriever in public who is unaware of his problems. As soon as you express anything negative or sad those liberal egalitarian types will tell you "ew gross, go see a therapist" (thanks, next appointment is in two weeks). Being an honest self aware man is basically a social death sentence unless you are with some really good friends.

abaxeron · 2023-04-29T12:12:45+00:00

Men don't benefit from gender equality because men don't experience gender equality.

One simple example: schools and colleges teach girls and women to "be their own man" in life (i.e. have a profession, earn for herself, live without a provider, and if she has a provider have a way out by divorcing him with minimized impact to her lifestyle).

Schools and colleges don't teach boys and men to "be their own woman" (i.e. do their own household management, know how to buy and take care of clothes, cook food, schedule house cleaning activities, learn how to raise and take care of a child by yourself).

As for "financial independence", I've discussed basically less than a day ago that there's this tiny little problem that married people mostly hire, promote, and give raises to married men.

Twenty-three percent of American married women between college and retirement have zero wage income. Versus something like six percent of married men.

VehementlyDrawn · 2023-04-29T11:47:32+00:00

Gender equality doesn't exist because women want everything that benefits them and nothing that doesn't benefit them; like

working labor jobs or long hours
one sided dating game
mental health issues, suicide rates, homelessness

But they'll fight for equal pay, you'll never hear them fight against male homelessness or suicide.

DueGuest665 · 2023-04-29T14:42:27+00:00

The problem of this whole discussion is that in the west the binary narrative of men vs women doesn’t really get us anywhere.

It doesn’t have the analytical resolution to benefit anyone.

The answer is yes some men have gained, others have lost out, or that most men have both gained and lost out in different ways.

With the equality under law that has been achieved there are only marginal gains to be made in some areas and most of these probably have pros and cons for different groups of men and women.

Kliere · 2023-04-29T08:27:55+00:00

Unless that man is ridiculously attractive and/or charismatic, if he ignores gender roles and isn't a provider he will never have a partner.

Additionally, it's good for men to shoulder the responsibility of paying for a family and stay-at-home wife. It gives purpose and meaning as well as a good upbringing for children.

mrsmariekje · 2023-04-29T09:54:00+00:00

As far as I see it, the only men you see complaining about gender equality are the men who would have relied on their provider status to attract a partner because they have little else to offer. Everyone else has benefitted enormously from gender equality.

LoopyPro · 2023-04-29T10:56:25+00:00

Generally not, and if they do, it doesn't last. The second men would benefit from gender equality, the definition of the word 'equality' gets changed, or other forms of goal post shifting occur. Lots of double standards are being applied.

I have yet to see somebody apply gender equality in a consistent, non-opportunistic way.

Podlubnyi · 2023-04-29T23:23:22+00:00

No - because gender equality is not meant to benefit men and is only pushed and enforced in areas which benefit women. We have enforced quotas for women in boardrooms, but no one ever suggests there should be less men and more women working in coal mines.

Little is ever done to address gender inequalities which disproportionately impact men, like life expectancy, suicides, homelessness, higher education, incarcerations, the sentencing gap, miscarriages of justice, paternity fraud, genital mutilation and male victims of domestic violence and sexual assaults (especially female perpetrated).

In scores of countries across the world, men are still forced to do military service while women are not. Very few women advocate for equality in this area.

TermAggravating8043 · 2023-04-29T10:09:43+00:00

Putting dating aside, men benefit from gender inequality all the time. Men still make more money, men are still more likely to be promoted over a woman, there is no where in the world where men don’t have the right to vote or have an education or have to cover themselves. There is s common saying “may your first child be a masculine one”

But of course, Because women can get sex a bit easier, because a women is more likely to be helped by society (mainly because she’s s victim of a man) the guys here believe women have all the benefits of life with no responsibilities

Comfortable-Dare-307 · 2023-04-29T12:32:00+00:00

Yes, gender equality benefits men and women. For the reasons you said. The problem with this is that a lot of women don't want equality. Most want special privileges. But if you point out women's privileges, it's somehow misogynistic. I want equality, but currently feminism doesn't want that.

Happy_Nuclear_End · 2023-04-29T10:49:39+00:00

"men have more freedom about how they express themselves"

Anything outside manly expression will result on partner loss of attraction, you're not free to express yourself.

"free from conforming to traditional gender roles such as being a provider"

Men are and will aways be locked in this role if he wants a stable relationship.

"When men are providers, they have less freedom or say in how their money is spent"

So what? Most men are able to live with less, so long his basic needs are meet he can happily support his family, in fact, is joyful.

"Men can focus on leisure and early retirement rather than working hard their whole lives to feed and house the family."

Early retirement is useless if he don't have a society, with "gender equality" sinking birth rates of the most well adjusted individuals while the less adjusted one breed like animals you're likely to not have a society to retire for.

"Many seem to believe that gender equality benefits women but it seems men have a lot to gain."

Gender equality will never exist because the genders aren't equal and women will never give extra benefits for the extra work men do to keep running the society she benefits the most.

"If a man ignores gender roles and is not a provider and splits everything equally with a partner"

He will die alone.

All the other points are repeated bs

grendalor · 2023-04-29T09:39:49+00:00

Yes, men benefit a lot from gender equality. Among other things it has reduced social pressure on men to conform -- if you want to live an unconventional life, you can easily do so without it having a lot of nasty repercussions on things like your work or professional life (which, under the prior social order, was not the case -- preferences were clearly for married men with children, and older single men were suspected and not favored in the workplace or socially etc). Things are more open and flexible for those who want to live in that way.

I agree with the comments that heterosexual relationships tend to require some degree of gender role play, even today -- the way that plays out specifically, and what it requires or entails specifically, varies a lot by social class and education level, as well as by the local culture and/or sub-culture to which you belong. But it's true that there remains some pressure to conform to gender roles in the context of heterosexual relationships. I don't know if this will ever completely disappear as long as there is sexual dimoprhism at the core heterosexual relationships, but I do think that way that it plays out and what it means, practically, has changed and will continue to change. But I don't think it's particularly realistic, even today, for a man to enter into a relationship with a woman and think that he has no gender role expectations -- in almost all cases, that is not true.

The provider issue varies -- there are women breadwinners, after all, and the recent statistics suggest it's around 35% now where that is the case. So definitely a minority of cases (and a lot of that has to do with child care cost, but not all of it), but a growing minority. Most of the time, the man is expected to breadwin still.

And, finally, if a man wants a traditional arrangement, obviously a society that leans towards gender equality won't suit him (it doesn't suit traditionalist women, either, since most men expect women to earn something today, even if the man is the leading earner), so there's that option that is harder for men, I guess.

InjectAdrenochrome · 2023-04-29T08:21:54+00:00

januaryphilosopher · 2023-04-29T11:47:32+00:00

As a whole no, as if you're advantaged then equality means losing out. But men of course won't all fit into a system designed to advantage men and some individuals are losing out already (generally those who don't conform to gender roles too well). And of course, knowing you got what you got on your own hard work and you're not pushing others down can be its own reward.

J4Plat · 2023-04-29T13:49:14+00:00

There's this idea that gender equality will somehow magically create some utopia and uplift men and women. In reality, men and women are not the same and as a result the same things will never have the same effect on both genders.

Men might not have to be providers for families but they'll still have to provide for themselves. Women rarely ever take care of men financially. I really don't see all the gender issues people grew up talking about. I was in honors classes and the vast majority of the class was girls. Even now the majority of college grads are women. I work in engineering and women get copious amounts of special treatment. It doesn't bother me but we do have a quota for women at my company and so oftentimes the women don't perform on the same level. Some people don't like that but most of us don't care and realize the reasoning behind a push for women in the space.

Healthcare... costs had to be equalized so men and women pay the same but men cost way less on average over their lifetime so women benefit. Women still expect men to pay consciously or unconsciously most of the time. Most women don't approach men. There's so many examples of things that will likely not change anytime soon until our technology allows us to remove the unique parts of males and females. All in all women will see more benefit than men. That's fine but I don't think we should be trying to gaslight ourselves into thinking they won't. I'm fine with the push for gender equality solely because I think women will benefit more than men and that's perfectly ok.

Niv-Izzet · 2023-04-29T14:41:26+00:00

date a woman who makes more money than you

DeshaunWalt · 2023-04-29T08:34:06+00:00

"Men have more freedom about how they express themselves"

What does have to do with anything ? Unless this is art class otherwise that made no sense

"such as being a provider"

But a lot of men want to be the provider especially for the woman they love like myself

"how their money is spent"

No they don't since your wife trusts you in such situations

"retire early and have financial independence"

You can have that while being the provider

If you make up to the 6 figures range

Also depends how many kids you have, if you only have two kids then you can be financially secure/independent once they turn 18+

But even then my dad had four kids while being the provider, and he still lives a nice lifestyle today with my mother, in fact funny enough he made more money once me and my brother moved out

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BioNipple · 2023-04-29T11:53:32+00:00

Only lazy gym bros benefit from this.

SecondEldenLord · 2023-04-29T11:53:55+00:00

I mean, I will have a woman pay for my bills and first date anytime.

Devourer_of_felines · 2023-04-29T13:48:20+00:00

Men would benefit greatly from reducing homelessness, work fatality, and suicide rates to be on par with those of women.

Salt_and_Vinegirl · 2023-04-29T14:09:39+00:00

To the ppl who say gender equality mostly hurts men: what is your ideal world? What would gender relations look like?

EndHlts · 2023-04-29T16:37:32+00:00

Gender equality doesn't exist anywhere in the world right now. Without a society where this has been achieved in existence this is impossible to know

anon-sucks · 2023-04-29T17:21:51+00:00

There’s differences generationally. I think if a man was raised to see chivalry and being a provider as part of manhood, he’s basically going to be considered a sucker and taken advantage of.

Younger men are more likely to not provide or be chivalrous and therefore won’t have issues with her paying her own bills.

szclimber · 2023-04-29T17:27:41+00:00

I morally agree with gender equality. However a lot of men will be left behind.

KikiYuyu · 2023-04-29T20:11:32+00:00

Of course they do. If they don't, it's not equality.

Reptheft · 2023-04-29T20:43:51+00:00

Men benefit from an imaginary version of gender equality that's consistently applied. We don't have that.

RealAmericanWeasel · 2023-04-30T01:36:01+00:00

I have nothing to say about equality of the sexes, or whatever you’re calling it, but I’ve always loved the freedom-to-do-something-almost-nobody-wants-to-do argument.

volleyballbeach · 2023-04-30T02:07:25+00:00

Yes.

Both men and women lose some privileges and gain other privileges with gender equality.

For example with gender equality: Men lose the privilege of being able to by default expect their partner to take on the majority of childcare duties. Men gain the privilege of not having to shoulder the financial burden themselves. Men gain the privilege of being free of pressure to suppress emotions to appear “manly”. Men lose the privilege of being taken more seriously in the workplace.

LingonberryGood3915 · 2023-04-30T20:36:44+00:00

no. equality is a manipulative political buzzword that really means gynocentrism and special privileges for females rather than actual equality. true equality also kills romantic attraction. attraction is biological based on superiority and inferiority, dominance and submission, power and lack of power. removing it destroys the equilibrium of nature and everything falls apart.

you cant have gender equality when women get money for having kids and with men by nature being more horny a society like that can not function because women will, like today, inevitably wreck families if they have the ability to do so without consequence because of sexual options

Jazzlike_Worth_9908 · 2023-05-01T19:39:21+00:00

I secretly agree with gender equality not out of compassion for women but out of interest. I dont want to work for 2 i share bills, im allowed to have my little tantrum here and there and women are and feel safe about le not judging us having casual fun. I dont see any downside actually

Title	Do men benefit from gender equality as well?
Author	hodlbtcxrp
Upvotes	9
Comments	171
Date	April 29, 2023 8:11 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/132n10x/do_men_benefit_from_gender_equality_as_well/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/do-men-benefit-from-gender-equality-as-well.1217330 https://theredarchive.com/post/1217330

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