"If you want a movement for men so bad, just start one yourself. There's nothing stopping you."

WeEatBabies · 2023-05-04T01:57:52+00:00

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jan/27/to-drain-the-swamp-of-men-only-clubs-there-must-be-a-public-register

https://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/is-it-time-for-men-to-reclaim-the-campus-international-mens-movement/ “The formation of men’s groups on campus is discouraged. At Wagner College, as most places, there are ‘gender guards’, faculty who report any activity that would be considered male-positive since such activity is deemed anti-female and indicative of continuing to favor males.”

RockmanXX · 2023-05-04T03:56:28+00:00

Ironically, the reason why Red-Pill took off in popularity is because Feminists cancelled/suppressed male advocates for not being feminist enough, even milquetoast moderates like Warren Farrell are smeared as rape apologists. If feminists weren't so vindictive, they could've helped create a male advocacy movement for lost young men that now follow PUA scammers like Tate.

I'll get a response from some exasperated feminist saying that they aren't obligated to help (true)

No, they ARE obligated because they call themselves egalitarians, they claim that they are driven by Empathy and that they stand in solidarity with other groups in their fight against oppressive structures. The ONLY reason they would deny men help is if they were lying about who they were, this whole time!

ChrongrariusWimble · 2023-05-04T01:22:41+00:00

When you say you want to start a men's movement: "Feminism is for men too, just be a feminist!"

When you ask feminism to do something for men for once: "feminism is for women, start your own movement!"

publicdefecation · 2023-05-04T01:11:52+00:00

There's definitely something stopping us. People will interrupt your meetings with protest, blow whistles into your ear and send death threats and bomb threats. All these things have happened.

Men's issues are actively being suppressed.

International_Crew89 · 2023-05-04T01:27:42+00:00

This kind of applies to any passion-project; if the sentiment of society is so strongly opposed to your cause, you run a significant risk of being ostracized out of your career, as well as relationships with friends and family. For example, just imagine living in the 40's or 50's (in the deep south of the US, as a white person) and taking a personal stand against racism; for a lot of folks it was social suicide. Plus, you can add actual physical threats of violence at the extremes (and right now I feel like the men's movement is viewed by the general public as extreme, given the dominant narrative around gender)

Title_IX_For_All · 2023-05-04T03:42:09+00:00

It is true that there are serious challenges and biases that men's advocates face that feminists are extremely privileged to be insulated from. Feminists do not regularly face screaming hordes of people shouting down their speaking events, assaulting them on campus, making career-ending false allegations against them because they don't like what they are saying, or people harassing their employers to terminate them simply because they hear a different point of view. Instead, they have all this on their side and, to top it off, a biased press that will tend to accept whatever narrative or statistics they put forth and funding by the millions upon millions.

But the reality is that if we want to make any progress, at some point we have to accept that there are risks.

It's not going to be fair. It probably never will be. But if we give up before we ever begin by simply citing the challenges before us, we truly will never get anywhere, and it will be that much harder for the next generation to make progress. We need to pick our battles, shore up whatever weak points we have, try to reach those who can be reached, and do what we can to build a better world.

Focus only on what you can influence or control, and just let the rest go.

MachoManShark · 2023-05-04T03:38:30+00:00

even ignoring external pressures that are opposed to men's movements, we also have to contend with the empathy gap and men's lack of in-group bias, which make our aims enormously more difficult than any women's movement's aims.

i guess we can't expect a feminist to acknowledge those things though, so we're just going to have to continue deal with being called slacktivist manchildren. it's not the worst thing they call us, so i won't complain too much.

Several_Sock_4791 · 2023-05-04T07:53:10+00:00

Fun enough the thing that stops men movements from taking off is the feminist movement and their staging antiprotest pulling fire alarms and what not or they do like what they did to the men domestic violence shelter.

TooHornyToFap · 2023-05-04T03:14:41+00:00

They want a separate movement because they don't want to do the work, while at the same time they want you to defer to feminists whenever there is a conflict.

ProfessionalPut6507 · 2023-05-04T08:17:45+00:00

Except when you even suggest it, you are met with derision, mockery and accusations of sexism, hatred and being an incel - you will also be a target of twitter mobs, harassment at your workplace and in your personal life..

But sure, nothing stopping you.

OrangleyOrange · 2023-05-04T12:52:38+00:00

The irony of feminists saying feminism is for men too whilst also saying this will never get old

pm_me_your_buttbulge · 2023-05-04T17:19:41+00:00

"If you want a movement for men so bad, just start one yourself. There's nothing stopping you."

Except you can look at Reddit (overall) and find it's quite hostile to the idea. In fact simply posting in these subreddits has a tendency to get you banned for simply existing here. So clearly they feel threatened.

I'll get a response from some exasperated feminist saying that they aren't obligated to help (true) and that if I want to do something for men, I should just do it myself because women did the same. After all, they say, there's nothing stopping you.

You tend to quickly find that these particular people also get upset when you don't go out of your way to help them. Often enough they'll claim you hate women if you don't actively support them. The logic there is pretty broken - because one can't support every single cause (actively). At some point you have to pick and choose. Time, money, and energy are finite.

People see men as so empowered that they don't perceive there to be any forces that would impede men from making a movement.

Anecdotally, for me, I've observed they honestly and sincerely view that men have zero disadvantages. This is why I think they view men's rights as a threat and, specifically, why the cannot have certain discussions honestly. It's why 2X ad such will ban you, even if you're a woman, for asking questions that fall into these areas where men aren't privileged.

Every race and gender has privileges others do not have. It's pathetic I have to say this but this does not mean all privileges are equal. Certain races tend to get more scholarships. Women often can go to a bar without money and expect men to pay for drinks without offering anything in return. I have ex's who have specifically done this when broke. They don't think there is anything wrong with it.

But when you point out family law issues and such that's when, in my experiences, they distract and attempt to change the topic.

It blows my mind because I can see pressure against my views everywhere I look, and it feels like someone would almost have to be intentionally ignorant to the backlash against men's issues

Historically speaking - this is how it works. Look at how we view basic Civil Rights. There were people who were honestly against this and used similar (broken) logic. We're in the state of "fine, then do it, but don't ask me to help" and in 40 years I suspect they'll say something as silly as "the times were different then, I didn't know any better".

The good news is I'm observing a significant change in the last 3-5 years. I'm finding considerably more support. I'm finding more women having those uncomfortable conversations. I'm finding the younger generation generally isn't like that (although I think that's because the extreme attitudes in politics and ideologies has drained them and made them... more critical? I don't now).

I know often it's not intentional, but how is it possible that people genuinely don't see men hurting?

Because this implies men are not 100% privileged. This could be viewed as a threat to their privileges or rights. The problem is if you can nail them down to the specifics of what they are fighting for - men's rights rarely conflicts with that. I've found in way too many discussions of a WIDE array of topics people are not willing to nail down specifics as well as they generally aren't willing to say "let's look that up and see".

I ran a few accounts many years ago which reversed age/sex/race/etc and oof... did that trigger people. "If an X person said this would you consider it discrimination:" and then reversed it. Everything else was word for word.

There's also the: Those in the position of privileges tend to view equality as oppression.

These are simply my observations. I could be wrong.

Dapper_Platform_1222 · 2023-05-04T20:01:59+00:00

Feminism has put up so many roadblocks against men all the while claiming that they are there for men. The movement itself hates men and more people need to take that seriously. If you took a normal piece of feminist literature and switched out the word "Men" with any other group and it would suddenly read like Mein Kampf. It is absolutely not built on synergies and is built on oppression.

tzaanthor · 2023-05-04T07:30:08+00:00

Without fail, I'll get a response from some exasperated feminist saying that they aren't obligated to help (true)

False. It's called 'humanity', you are obligated to help your fellows.

gratis_eekhoorn · 2023-05-04T14:02:07+00:00

same people then accuse everyone who think men could be disadvantaged in some situations of misogyny

Sir_vendetta · 2023-05-04T11:07:25+00:00

The approach to the MRA movement needs to change, the movement needs to go centre-left to be taken seriously.

Too liberal, no good

Too Conservative, no good

Far-right won't work because it encourages misogynism and extremist views.

Far-left won't work either because it plays into the hands of the Far-right branches of the feminist movement.

coolboy_24278 · 2023-05-05T00:22:50+00:00

Theres mra groups, mens shelters, boys clubs that get shut down by feminists because it “is misogny and derails from womens issues”. Feminists are a hugr hinderence to mens issues

StatisticianBig6210 · 2023-05-05T20:19:04+00:00

I know often it's not intentional, but how is it possible that people genuinely don't see men hurting?

They usually do see it, but the response is one or more of the following:

It's men's fault (in one way or another)
Men's issues don't need to be taken seriously until women's issues are solved
Men don't have any issues and are just unused to "gender equality"
The pendulum is swinging but things will become more balanced soon
Men deserve to suffer (because of simplistic ideas about the past, male privilege, so on)

The poison is in the bottom of the well. What I mean is that men's issues aren't new, and they never were just a result of "male privilege backfiring" or similar dogmas. Good luck getting people to even come to terms with that, let alone advocate for men if they think it might affect their efforts advocating for other groups.

MSHUser · 2023-05-04T14:09:22+00:00

This is very contradictory to what feminism says. That it's beneficial for everyone, that they talk about and help solve men's issues. Without fail the amount of ppl I see tell men to start their own movement, the fact that they'd delegate men's issues to a potential men's group means that feminism actually does not want to help solve men's issues, or they dismiss those issues as a part of the patriarchy (cuz patriarchy hurts men too even tho the idea of that contradicts the definition of patriarchy, and patriarchy theory is largely based off of an apex fallacy.)

Updawg145 · 2023-05-04T20:04:47+00:00

Good points and I'd say one of the main issues is the fact that mainstream culture and political philosophy tends to group all men together and act as if we're a monolith that equally benefits from any real or perceived advantages that some men have. But the reality is that throughout history men have been treated as disposable assets by women AND men, especially elite, powerful men. Most of the issues feminists have with power structures in the world today are exclusive to a tiny percent of men. Those men don't share their power and "privilege" with the rest of us just because we're all men.

So, you end up with, to over-simplify it, three separate groups: normal men, elite men, and women. There are also elite women but I don't think that's entirely relevant to this issue.

With that in mind, you have feminists that represent the interests of women, and no one to represent the interests of normal men, because they're associated with the elite men. But, elite men also don't look out for normal men, either. So, in the end, no one looks out for normal men.

matrixislife · 2023-05-04T04:27:17+00:00

Just ask them how Big Red is doing. Then when they start to talk make a dive for the fire alarm.

Sure-Vermicelli4369 · 2023-05-04T15:53:29+00:00

Women are not naive to this fact. They know full well that men are powerless than to abide by the status quo.

Ohyarlysmiles · 2023-05-05T01:19:31+00:00

that they aren't obligated to help (true)

This is not true. If feminism truly is about dismantling patriarchy, it must recognize that men largely suffer under patriarchy and hegemonic masculinity as well.

hotpotato138 · 2023-05-06T11:46:20+00:00

This is a comment I received from a feminist on another sub:

"If you're not a feminist, you're either a misandrist or a misogynist. It's pretty concerning that you're talking about feminists as a separate thing from what YOU are.... men's rights is actually part of feminism, by definition. So like"

BornBhodi · 2023-05-19T02:26:19+00:00

Earl Silverman. Never forget. This is why we fight ✊🏾

zaph239 · 2023-05-05T17:05:40+00:00

It isn't that easy, the first problem is the power of shame. Any man who dares disagree with feminists is in for a world of very personal abuse. Feminists will attempt to destroy him, destroy his life and career. This isn't paranoid, plenty of men have been cancelled for daring to fight feminism.

The second problem is men and women are fundamentally different. Men compete for sex, women do not. That dynamic in the sexual marketplace means it is simply easier for women to show solidarity with one and another.

To put it crudely, no man wants to admit they struggle to get laid or struggle in their relationships. So building a political movement becomes an impossibility.

Title	"If you want a movement for men so bad, just start one yourself. There's nothing stopping you."
Author	Sorry-Difference5942
Upvotes	278
Comments	109
Date	May 4, 2023 12:37 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/1374qzl/if_you_want_a_movement_for_men_so_bad_just_start/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/if-you-want-a-movement-for-men-so-bad-just-start.1217735 https://theredarchive.com/post/1217735

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