CMV: The fact that surrogates are mainly used by women and gays show that men's threats about artificial wombs are not to be taken seriously

MiddleZealousideal89 · 2023-09-26T05:09:18+00:00

Even if artificial wombs do become a thing, that womb isn't going to be changing diapers and dealing with sleepless nights. I can't imagine that many single guys will want to be the single parent of a newborn. And I also imagine most single guys won't have the finances to hire a full-time live-in nanny to take care of the infant.

abaxeron · 2023-09-26T11:15:12+00:00

If you read SCUM Manifesto, to this day taught in certain gender studies courses, you would know that women have been threatening men with extinction decades before "manosphere" became a thing, and basically as soon as artificial insemination rolled out onto market.

There are more men than ever. Women's threats are not to be taken seriously.

And no; surrogates are mainly "used" by heterosexual couples.

RelationshipSalty369 · 2023-09-26T07:34:52+00:00

Nah, the type of men in the manosphere want "legacies", not children. Kids are hard work.

trettles · 2023-09-26T04:48:56+00:00

I can't imagine there will be many straight men who will want to bottle feed, raise & clean up after a baby on their own.

I'm more concerned about it for predatory/pedophilic reasons. I don't think most men who want to do this will be doing it for genuinely good reasons.

RahLyt · 2023-09-26T10:31:03+00:00

Lol the more I use this sub the more confused I am. I never heard of this in my life.

Firm_Shirt_2553 · 2023-09-26T05:08:56+00:00

Well there's the fact that surrogacy is really expensive. From a quick google search surrogacy in the US costs anywhere from $110k - $170k. Not exactly something something an average guy can do. The only reason it's used mainly by gay men and older women is because they have no other option. The average salary in the US is ~$74k and the vast majority of men would rather just admit defeat or decide to not have a child rather than pay twice their yearly salary. An artificial womb has the potential to bring down costs to a reasonable amount.

I also find it funny that you bring this up when what I hear a lot more is the reverse coming from feminists (saying how artificial bone marrow sperm will make men obsolete).

Amiskon2 · 2023-09-26T13:27:33+00:00

Surrogated moms also often have criteria. Many would reject having kids for a lonely guy, for example. They probably assume the worse.

Artificial wombs is not about being able to have kids, but that power taken away reproductive monopoly from women for good. For first time in history you would not need a woman to make babies, and the states would probably favor and pay for it if it implies higher population, as population decrease is a future economic problem.

Dry_Personality7194 · 2023-09-26T12:00:10+00:00

Or it could be that men who are really family oriented just find a wife and have them the old fashion way. Men support the nuclear family more than women.

Most straight men who has 100k lying around to spend on a surrogate usually has a good job and therefore options in the dating market.

The ones using surrogates are those without other options.

And quite a few of us grew up with single parents and doesn’t want to inflict that on our kids.

At least that’s my 2 cents

DietTyrone · 2023-09-26T11:47:44+00:00

Lol, MGTOW and artificial wombs aren't a "threat." A threat implies there are terms, like do XYZ or else. MGTOW guys don't really set terms. They just decide one day that modern dating isn't worth it and forgo a traditional relationship for personal development. No different than when women claim to be single by choice. Should that be taken as women threatening men, or is it just a personal choice?

ComfortableOk5003 · 2023-09-26T23:23:13+00:00

Artificial wombs and surrogates are exactly the same thing though.

Mandy_M87 · 2023-09-27T16:01:53+00:00

Don't the vast majority of women who use surrogates have a male partner? Is OP trying to say that he's not on board with it? I can see not many men using surrogates on their own though.

MarBitt · 2023-09-26T12:47:58+00:00

Aren't gays also men who are going their own way, living independently of women and potentially using artificial wombs to reproduce?

Of course, artificial wombs will be used mainly by heterosexual couples. And to a much lesser extent by single hetero women, unable to find a man who would suit them sexually and at the same time be willing to start a family with them.

A single hetero man who has money for a surrogate mother and wants children probably does not have such a problem getting a relationship with a woman who also wants children. Because men's demands on women and on relationships with women are generally not that high.

Nevertheless, there is a certain risk from this for women. Once the use of artificial wombs becomes widespread, the argument that women are inherently more valuable than men in terms of reproduction will fall. Which can have an effect, for example, when women will be drafted into the war.

Opening_Tell9388 · 2023-09-26T15:54:41+00:00

This and the fact that men do not fight for custody of our kids in divorces or splits. Men actually win the majority of child custody cases when they do fight for them.

Stunning-Potato-1984 · 2023-09-26T16:39:23+00:00

Most men can't afford a surrogate, most people can't and artificial wombs that can carry a human to term don't exist. Plus men realistically don't want that single parent life. It will be the greatest barrier if they ever do become a thing.

raldabos · 2023-09-26T06:12:34+00:00

If you were familiar with the manosphere a few years ago, you would often hear "threats" of men going their own way, of living independently of women and using artificial wombs to reproduce.

Really? Never meet a guy who thinks reproduction is so important they'll use artificial wombs, I've actually heard that "artificial reproduction" argument coming from women.I couldn't give a fuck about having kids in this fucked up world, actually I have some friends who have the vasectomy.

I'm guessing the men who said that are a minority.

Realistic-Science-59 · 2023-09-26T07:35:50+00:00

In Vitro Gametogenesis or IVG in conjuction with Artifical Wombs or Ectogenesis will absolutely change the world by rendering women biologically obsolete, but it'll probably only be available to the wealthiest of men much like surrogacy, donor eggs, and full time live–in nannies are now or it'll just be illegal (like surrogacy is today in a lot of jurisdictions).

It's too early to tell honestly.

And can we stop pretending that men are completely incapable of parenting all on their own, come off it now, this is real life not a sitcom.

HimNeutron · 2023-09-26T08:03:37+00:00

You just made up an argument that no group has ever advocated for. MGTOW has nothing to do with using artificial wombs to have kids, wtf 😂

ReplacementPasta · 2023-09-26T14:37:29+00:00

The fact that surrogates are mainly used by women and gays show that men's threats about artificial wombs are not to be taken seriously

Why would anyone take those "threats" seriously? Anyone who talks about AI girlfriends and artificial wombs replacing women arent dating anyone anyways.

I just think men want children from a rational perspective

I don't know, I had pretty strong feelings about absolutely wanting children. It would've been a dealbreaker if someone told me they didn't want kids

But tbf, I come from a family of 8 so that might have influenced it

Diamond-Breath · 2023-09-26T19:24:09+00:00

They'd still need women because you need an egg for an embryo to form. The DNA comes from the egg and the sperm, 50/50.

macone235 · 2023-09-26T06:23:56+00:00

The difference is when artificial wombs become a thing, then so will artificial mothers, which will fully unlock men's detachment from women.

I would say these threats should definitely be taken seriously considering they are inevitable.

Whether women will care or not though remains to be seen. Maybe they'll end up being content with robotic cats, or maybe they'll marry their own Chadtron 3000.

Chocat_X_Stencchi · 2023-09-26T12:06:35+00:00

Damn....ya got a point 👉

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Nihi1986 · 2023-09-26T12:46:35+00:00

Artificial wombs, sex bots, gf AI and shit like that...they don't matter, those things are Mgtow stuff and 95% of them are incels in denial, those were ignored by women to begin with, of course artificial wombs won't hurt women, if anything, they will help the women who want to do it that way.

obviousredflag · 2023-09-26T14:48:37+00:00

for women children are often an instinctual need

I'd argue that it's just culture. Evolution didn't require an instinctual need in women for them to procreate. It just required a sex drive. Occam's razor. Don't make it more complicated than needed. Women just become super into their child when they are already pregnant, for obvious, evolutionary reasons. People have children, because sex is so good, that they accept to fuck over their lives with children for it (and arguably, for most of humans evolutionary time, they did probably not even understand that sex is responsible for children). And prior to just a few seconds ago, in evolutionary times, there was no way to separate sex from having children.

If there was an instinctual need in women, we wouldn't see childlessness rise since the introduction of contraception and abortion.

OptimistInHell · 2023-09-26T16:06:24+00:00

Easy cmv: no one outside the special groups you've found yourself, no one really cares about this.

Able-Imagination3695 · 2023-09-26T19:35:29+00:00

Artificial wombs sound like a great deal to me, tbh. Maybe there will be better laws surrounding abortion and reproductive rights once men are finally responsible for the pre-natal care, birth and life-long care of a child.

2023-09-26T20:13:05+00:00

Men have a paternal instinct. They feel it for THEIR children more though. They talk about how much their entire psycholgy changed the moment their first hold THIER child.

I've never encountered men talking about using artificial wombs. I have encountered women talking about women should stop dating and having sex and breeding with guys and should just use sperm donors or even that, men should just go extinct and female scientist should just create artificial sperm somehow.

testamentfan67 · 2023-09-27T07:46:29+00:00

Never heard of this

Freeman_Goldshonnie · 2023-09-27T15:53:02+00:00

Unless genetic editing is also introduced we should not facilitate genetically inferior men to procreate. It's like a dog eating chocolate. They want to, but it's not good for society.

Title	CMV: The fact that surrogates are mainly used by women and gays show that men's threats about artificial wombs are not to be taken seriously
Author	Novel-Tip-7570
Upvotes	34
Comments	102
Date	September 26, 2023 4:34 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/16se20t/cmv_the_fact_that_surrogates_are_mainly_used_by/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/cmv-the-fact-that-surrogates-are-mainly-used-by.1232916 https://theredarchive.com/post/1232916

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