CMV: it should be illegal everywhere to get sex using deception

throaway2s1fsfsf4 · 2023-09-28T15:57:37+00:00

So for example if a woman lie about being a virgin and the man find out after having sex, he can press charges?

63daddy · 2023-09-28T16:13:46+00:00

So it should be illegal for women to wear makeup to attract a man?

People deceive each other all the time and it’s ridiculous to think deception to get sex can be some magical exemption.

Zabadoodude · 2023-09-28T16:31:19+00:00

A lot of people would be in jail then.

"Ma'am, you claimed to have had 3 previous sexual partners, but we have 7 witnesses that testified that they have had intercourse with you. The victim has assured me that he would not have gotten involved with you if he had this information. You are convicted of rape by deception and sentenced to 10 years in prison."

Deception is morally questionable, but it's not rape, and we shouldn't get the legal system involved. Just like cheating isn't illegal, even if it is scummy

BoomTheBear86 · 2023-09-28T16:42:10+00:00

No.

Deception is too wobbly a concept to make legal sanctions a punishment. It needs to be codified.

For example “deception” as you define it could equal:

someone who lies about their job
someone who lies about their hobbies
someone who says they liked a certain film but didn’t really, but the person who went to bed with them really liked the film
someone who alters their appearance in any significant way, for example make up
someone who lies about their age
someone who lies about their sexual history
someone who lies about any aspect of their past whatsoever
someone feigns interest in something to spend time with another person
someone who isn’t honest about their financials
someone who falls foul of any of the above not by direct lie but by OMISSION where the other party merely assumed some contrary belief.

It’s a ridiculous idea, and your original framing as directed as male examples makes me think you haven’t considered the myriad of ways women deceive men in small but arguably significant ways before sex as well.

When I was a younger man I slept with a woman I met after meeting her at a club and going on a few dates. Post sex she tells me she is actually a single mother (the child was with their father over the two weeks we met, had dates and had sex, and she admitted to tidying the apartment of signs of having a child).

According to your logic, I was raped. I disagree. I consented to sex with her based on the knowledge I had at the time and she simply omitted mentioning she was a mother because I never asked. Nonetheless if she had mentioned she was a single mother, I wouldn’t have dated her in the first place. So really, it was sex obtained through deception in a way.

I don’t feel bad about it I just think it illustrates how silly this premise is.

Ok-Expression7575 · 2023-09-28T16:54:23+00:00

Maybe just don't sleep with people you don't know. How naive do you have to be to think everyone is good?

obviousredflag · 2023-09-28T17:54:01+00:00

I believe consent that isn't INFORMED is not consent at all.

Yes, your honor, i was sleepy and mistook her for a beautiful woman when i agreed to have sex with her. The next morning it turned out that she deceived me with makeup that i didn't notice and she didn't informed me to have used in this deception. My consent was clearly not informed and therefore she raeped me.

Did this change your view?

Flat_Pollution2541 · 2023-09-28T16:56:41+00:00

Women who lie about their body count should be in jail based on this.

KaptainBrix · 2023-09-28T17:14:58+00:00

Yeah sure, let's also arrest women that wear weaves and hair extensions, then have sex with men without revealing what they look like otherwise.

Let's not stop there, also arrest women that lie about their body count and claim being virgins, cause that's deception

Amiskon2 · 2023-09-28T16:03:57+00:00

You consent to sex or not. If there is no consent, that is r*ape.

Any other extra type of information that is irrelevant for sex (such as STDs) has nothing to do with consent for sex.

Responsible_Ice3149 · 2023-09-28T17:08:36+00:00

you could discuss this a long the lines of STDs and related stuff and so potentially harming the other person, that may be a valid point to explore.

If you put in the other points ?, should a woman be punished for lying about already having children in the same way like the neurosurgeon, or about being pregnant as example ?

Woke_Wacker · 2023-09-28T17:33:18+00:00

Seriously? Look, most would agree that lying to get laid is a shitty thing to do, but to compare it to rape is the kind of nonsense used to avoid any accountability for your own actions. Consent is consent even if under a false pretence. Take some agency and minimalise the risks you take.

Puzzleheaded_Pin4857 · 2023-09-28T18:06:04+00:00

Hmm. “I don’t have a boyfriend.”. Then you get your ass kicked. ?

bifewova234 · 2023-09-29T06:47:47+00:00

You seek to punish male deception in romance but do not seek to punish female deception in romance. This is selective enforcement based on gender. Something wrong with how youre thinking.

TermAggravating8043 · 2023-09-28T16:28:27+00:00

There was an interesting case a few years ago me and my partner discussed when it was out

A woman and man had consensual sex together after talking online, A few weeks later, she discovered she’s pregnant, she has an abortion and tries to file for rape. The case falls because she had consented even on paper She then sues him for rape but not as a crime but as a fraud, in their conversations before sex she had insisted on discussing BC but he had assured her he’d had a vasectomy so it wasn’t necessary. He lied

She won this case because it was clear she wouldn’t have consented if he hadn’t lied, and she had too go through an abortion because of it. He was fined and put in the sex offenders list

I’ve always thought this was interesting because telling someone a lie for sex isn’t unheard of, but the consequences of it perhaps should be taken more seriously

External_Pomelo939 · 2023-09-28T15:52:47+00:00

Get a life….

1Here4Bach · 2023-09-28T16:34:55+00:00

It’s unethical sure but I don’t think it crosses the threshold of illegal behavior. The punishment for this would be public shaming. Air their shit out. Let everyone know that person is a liar and let women know to stay away from him. I think that’s adequate treatment for people who lie to get sex.

calfshrug · 2023-09-28T21:11:05+00:00

Most people lie before they have sex. Cheating, even in marriage, is often a legal form of fraud. But of course, alimony and custody are a think

MassiveAd1026 · 2023-09-28T21:15:32+00:00

Why would she have sex with him, just because he’s a neurosurgeon? How would you prove he ever said it?

MotleyCrew1989 · 2023-09-29T04:46:46+00:00

So women should stop using makeup because it is basically a deception? dude...

There is an old saying:

"Men love what they see and women what they hear
Thats why women wear makeup and men lie"

DerayRevan · 2023-09-28T15:55:07+00:00

Give me break honestly

"Oh my gosh l thought he was a nice guy but turns out his just a player"

Seriously l've been on this deception stuff since talking to girls in high-school, it's not a big deal since that's part of direct flirting

I would consistently tell girls such big lies just to get their contacts or make the conversation more fun to engage

Deception is used as a seduction method to get a woman more interested in you

Cethlinnstooth · 2023-09-28T16:30:09+00:00

Personally I think that for a charge of rape by deception a few more specific things than just pretending to work as a neurosurgeon should be necessary.

I do think it should be rape if one uses some other real person's identity to get sex...it's one thing to claim to be a surgeon it is totally another to pretend to be a specific surgeon. Also it should be rape if things were lied about that no reasonable person would have gone ahead with if they knew the truth...for example sex with a close relative, sex with someone with ebola, sex with someone heavily radiation contaminated.

I also think deception about the basic nature of what is doing the penetrating should be rape. If she's consenting to a dick she's not consenting to a dildo. If she's consenting to a condom wrapped dick she's not consenting to bareback. If she points to a lump and says "what's that" and he says it's a pimple when he knows damn well it's a wart, that should be rape. If he says the condom is mylar but it's latex, that's rape. Claiming to have a vasectomy when you haven't...rape.

On the other hand, just promising marriage and then not following through....not rape. Pretending to be rich, witty, powerful, tall...not rape. Giving a fake bit of jewellery and saying it is real to help persuade her ...not rape. Claiming you can get her backstage...not rape.

Safinated · 2023-09-28T17:03:18+00:00

And I want people to never lie, ever, under any circumstance

Sound realistic?

MiddleZealousideal89 · 2023-09-28T17:50:10+00:00

This sounds like it would clog up the legal system and have people claiming they were deceived when they found out the guy wore a toupée, that the woman wore makeup to make herself look better than she actually does, that the guy didn't actually have a fancy car, he had just rented it, that the woman wore shapewear to make herself look slimmer, etc. I do agree that consent needs to be informed and that these things should be on a case-by-case basis (your second example and let's say, someone lying or not disclosing the fact that they have an STD) but just saying ''deception'' is a bit too vague and would lead to a lot of wasted court time. I also fear this would cause rape victims to be taken even less seriously. Someone crying because they were trying to gold dig but got hoodwinked themselves isn't winning any sympathy from anyone.

Objective_Ad_6265 · 2023-09-28T16:48:52+00:00

I agree. Consent based on lies and false impression and information is not real consent.

MistyMaisel · 2023-09-28T17:18:38+00:00

You aren't going to convince players that what they're doing is sexual assault or rape. Only having daughters is going to do that to them.

Luckily, as you've made clear, you don't really have to. The court system is on your side and more than that the court of public opinion. If some dude lies to get in your pants or is deceptive, call him what he is wherever you want to whomever you want. Ruin his reputation and if you've got the time and whimsy for it, take him to court. Social media is magic if you want to fuck a dude's life up forever. Call his boss even. Tell his job. Tell his mother. Go the whole nine yards.

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huolap8 · 2023-09-28T17:00:04+00:00

“Deception” in general is too vague a word. Not a realistic endeavour.

BillyPilgrim75 · 2023-09-28T17:01:32+00:00

Somewhat playing devil's advocate, but this is a slippery slope.

First, the guy slipping into the woman's bed raped her.

The guy pretending to be a neurosurgeon did not. It's a crap move on his part, but not rape.

As to the slippery slope, OP, do you believe a woman who pretends her SO is the father of a child is committing a crime? I don't but by your logic......

If 2 people have a conversation about sexual histories and a man or woman lies and that lie makes a difference in whether one of them consents, is that a crime?

If someone claims to be single but isn't? Childless but isn't? Never having had an STD or an abortion? Criminal past? Drug use?

Where do you draw the line, or do you want to fill jails with men and women who've told these orts of lies?

H3268yt_Co452dggsay · 2023-09-28T17:11:11+00:00

Lol wtf why isn’t this post banned. You should tell them whatever they want to hear and that’s what successful men do.

MarBitt · 2023-09-28T18:02:20+00:00

Do you think that if transgender people hides their biological sex from a person who would otherwise revoke consent if they knew of their trans identity, it should be considered rape by deception?

What about women who lie about their previous work as sex workers? Or about body count? For many men, this would also be a reason not to have sex with them. Should it be considered rape by deception on the part of those women?

If a man lies about his height or penis size and a woman lies about her weight or age, should that be considered rape by deception?

Puzzleheaded_Pin4857 · 2023-09-28T18:06:58+00:00

How about, “I’m on birth control.”.

jaybalvinman · 2023-09-28T18:48:09+00:00

I mean, if you slept with a woman, and later invite her to your house where she sees your action figure set collection, can she turn around and have you jailed because "she would have never consented to xes if she knew you were such a nerd"?

LogicalLetterhead272 · 2023-09-28T19:37:18+00:00

Would you be okay if it was similarly illegal to imply (either directly or indirectly) that you'll reward someone with sex if they do something for you, and then not have sex with them?

AnonPinkLady · 2023-09-28T22:13:50+00:00

Law typically doesn't focus on personal relationship issues and the morality of said issues because it's complicated and feelings are hard to litigate. So there would be no easy way to enforce something like this and worse, it could be abused for petty reasons with a good lawyer.

DrBoby · 2023-09-28T23:37:39+00:00

Women that claim they are virgin but they aren't. We have a special jail for them.

Women hiding their true face with makeup. Jail

Cheating on their height with high heels. Right to jail, right away.

Women claiming they know how to cook, but they don't. Believe it or not, jail.

We have the best women in the world, thanks to jail.

wtknight · 2023-09-29T00:36:47+00:00

[permanently deleted]

96tillinfinity_ · 2023-09-29T00:54:27+00:00

Deception is “he said-she said”

Court of public opinion leans towards women

I think we know where im going with this

SuitableStart · 2023-09-29T06:33:23+00:00

We live in a physical world 🌎 not in the idealist Pleroma. All things here are deceptions of some kind.

Notanothrshitthrow · 2023-09-29T10:57:11+00:00

Sorry but this is incredibly dumb.

Would you really advocate that someone who tells a fib about their interests and has sex with the person they lied to should be prosecuted?

Title	CMV: it should be illegal everywhere to get sex using deception
Author	Windmill_flowers
Upvotes	0
Comments	108
Date	September 28, 2023 3:51 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/16ujmeh/cmv_it_should_be_illegal_everywhere_to_get_sex/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/cmv-it-should-be-illegal-everywhere-to-get-sex.1233302 https://theredarchive.com/post/1233302

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