What would the ideal conditions for financial abortion look like?

Charming_Parking_302 · 2023-12-04T18:14:53+00:00

The government will never support financial abortion because if the father doesn't pay for the child...the government will have to. And they aren't having that! It's a lost cause!

sublimemongrel · 2023-12-04T20:53:57+00:00

Pre-sex consent that he has to obtain from her beforehand. Some type of written consent like they started doing in Canada for unofficial sperm donors.

Win-win everyone is on the same page before having sex/getting pregnant and whomever is on the hook has an incentive to use any means of birth control they can.

NothingOrAllLife · 2023-12-04T18:00:34+00:00

I hate this topic. There’s no good way for this to be implemented.

If you’re arguing that it’s for financial reasons, should that man then be barred from having any kids until his financial status improves? Should this baby have to get a restraining order against the bio dad in order to stop him from contacting it in the future when he’s “matured”?

Unlike actual abortion and adoption, this financial abortion isn’t really doing anything. You don’t want to be financially responsible for this kid?

My advice, bank some sperm, get a vasectomy and double up on birth control when you’re having sex. Or just don’t have sex, you’ll 100% never have to take care of any children you don’t choose to that way.

Mobrowncheeks · 2023-12-04T18:04:45+00:00

Imagine not paying for your own child. But paying more taxes in general for everyone’s child.

EulenWatcher · 2023-12-04T18:02:15+00:00

Safe, accessible and free medical abortions.
A financial abortion has to have a time limit that leaves enough time for a woman to make a medication abortion. The time limit for that is around 11 weeks, so it's almost 3 months. The timeframe for financial abortion could be around 5-6 weeks then.
State benefits for single parents meaning higher taxes on everyone.
If a man opted for a financial abortion, he can't get in touch with the child later on without the other parent's consent and if he gets in touch, he's obliged to pay child support.
Could consider a maximum number of financial abortions a man can make so we wouldn't have men impregnating multiple women and bailing on them.
A pregnancy that was a result of rape can't be financially aborted.

Of course, there are a lot of details to ensure that a man gets notification in time and doesn't hide from getting it to bail out of pregnancy.

KayRay1994 · 2023-12-04T18:46:01+00:00

i’m gonna say for a financial abortion especially - it has to be done early or there has to be proof that the man tried and the woman refused. If you want an abortion and she doesn’t at, let’s say the 3 month mark at the absolute most, a lawyer should be able to provide such documents and verify that they’ve been signed - that way if she refuses to sign it early, she’s liable for legal trouble.

That being said, the concern for this and the need for it to be early primary stems from the possibility of the man initially being involved, the couple planning on keeping it, then him backing away later into the pregnancy. This needs to be accounted for as well; men who attempt to twist the situation to get out soon as the seriousness of the situation gets to them.

That being said, if he can prove that she didn’t tell him until the cutoff point she should be liable to legal trouble as well.

theReaders · 2023-12-04T18:41:24+00:00

they should be able to void any financial responsibilities towards the child. I’m curious as to what this would actually look like because I imagine a lot of men would take advantage of this.

Hard to say what the outcome would be but if the mother doesn’t get child support from the father she will have to get it from the government/aka taxes. Needless to say this will never happen irl but I’m interested in peoples thought process behind it.

This is actually talked about as necessary in radical feminist/leftist politics. The number one cause of death for pregnant people in the US is homicide, and it doesn't have to be that way. I think many people look at the idea of dissolution of parental rights as unfair, but if the social systems needed by all people to thrive (universal child care, health care, schooling including post-secondary, housing, and food) were in place I don't see the issue.

So many are lied to by the person who got them pregnant, and told that they will be there and be present only to bail out. It is actually less common for people to openly express not wanting children and have the person they impregnated continue. Legally, the finances can come into play no matter what because some states force you to file for child support in order to apply for government assistance. All of these situations put both the pregnant person, and the other party in unwanted positions. Ultimately the right to terminate parental rights at will, and the security of social support would fix at least that aspect.

To be clear, my father dissolved his parental rights. I'm Canadian and unless that happens, you can sue for child support as an adult and he didn't want that. The reason it was allowed by my mother was because he was abusive, and it would protect us from him. I doubt she would have approved without his abuse because it was so hard financially to raise us. With the financial incentive to keep a partners parental rights, the only reason I can imagine is the brigade that believes unwilling parties make good parents. They don't.

As for abortions, late stage abortions should exists regardless of child support/parents rights laws. Until you literally birth that fetus it is our body and they are a visitor. If your circumstances change, you learn a new side of your partner, or you simply don't wish to become a parent 38 weeks into your pregnancy I don't see an issue with that.

SnooBeans6591 · 2023-12-04T19:34:36+00:00

Pregnant mother goes to the father, lets him sign (or not sign) a paper that he won't take a financial abortion. That way, she can know immediately what she is up to.

If the father doesn't want to respond, she delegates this to some "notary" (or any official instance) - the father now gets, say one week, to decide.

There is no time limit - the father can do a post-birth financial abortion, but ONLY if the procedure wasn't made before. Remember, he has one week from the moment he is informed about the child, if he wasn't informed before the birth, he wasn't able to decide. The purpose of the "notary" is to note when the father was informed, so that he cannot just "let time pass" and then do the financial abortion when the mother has no option to abort anymore.

jonabay4 · 2023-12-05T00:32:20+00:00

"would the same limit go for financial abortion?"

You can't have an abortion past 24 weeks --- because there is too much development between the brain and the spinal cord at that point.

I am also a pro choice woman. But these limits are not as arbitrary as men like to view them.

bifewova234 · 2023-12-05T00:53:20+00:00

Child support is for the child. You must obtain the child's consent for a financial abortion. Good luck.

YaKnowEstacado · 2023-12-04T18:11:59+00:00

The window for financial abortion should fall between the time when you're able to get an in-utero paternity test and a few weeks before the abortion cutoff. There should be enough of a cushion for the woman to still seek an abortion after the man financially "aborts." Otherwise he could rescind financial support at the last minute and she wouldn't have time to get an abortion.

You also have to factor in that all this paperwork will take a while to go through.

Valuable-Marzipan761 · 2023-12-04T18:56:56+00:00

I don't agree with it morally but if we're going on the logic that a foetus doesn't become human until a random arbritary date, decided by the government, that would be the date for financial abortion.

I don't think relationship/income are relevant.

kendrac83 · 2023-12-04T21:54:01+00:00

"Financial" abortion is dumb...how many women would such a man do that to? As many as HE wants? HE needs to be the one to take responsibility for his sexual decisions. Not the taxpayers.

ColbyXXXX · 2023-12-04T18:22:07+00:00

I would gladly pay increased taxes (or just fix the lopsided budgets) in order for all children to be guaranteed basic needs without needing to depend on potentially idiotic or scumbag parents. This would also reduce the number of toxic relationships that come about just because they have a child together. Rather spend it on that than the police and politicians getting rich for making my life worse.

NefariousnessLife220 · 2023-12-04T18:58:59+00:00

Up to the point of viability
No difference
Can she raise the child without government assistance?
Universal. I believe abortion laws should be nationwide. No exceptions. No questions asked. On demand. Should be as easy to get one as going down to 7-11 for a candybar. (Just like it is in China.)

Or could the child already be 10 years old and the father could be like I’m done.

Oh, come onnnn. Are you one of those "abortions are allowed up until and right after the birth", Marjorie Taylor Greene-style or whatever nonsense?

TigerRude4 · 2023-12-05T00:14:51+00:00

It's definitely a hard discussion to have, but always baffles me is pro choice people providing pro life arguments when it comes to financial abortions.

Mitoza · 2023-12-04T18:45:34+00:00

The only acceptable conditions for legal parental surrender are:

total respect for abortion rights with no limits
a high guaranteed level of support for children. I'm talking guaranteed high quality nutrition, education, health and child care.

OtPayOkerSmay · 2023-12-04T18:04:45+00:00

The man may not even know at 12 weeks, especially if she keeps it a secret; so the upper limit would have to be higher than that.

Prior relationship shouldn't matter. It doesn't matter for women getting abortions.

Her income would only influence if she decides to abort after the guy has decided to financially abort.

Parallel with abortion laws.

Geselshaft · 2023-12-04T19:30:20+00:00

Financial abortion is the default unless a man opts in. She wants a kid, she can pay for the kid.

If a man wants to be involved he can pay. Kids inside marriages are by default paid for following paternity tests.

Women will never support it because it’s puts then at a disadvantage and stops their lying and gold digging.

Also they hate men :)

Women spread their legs for chad and get knocked up because they took no steps to protect themselves. They’re ultimately responsible. Blaming men is just women’s classic escaping from responsibility as always. They want the kid, pay for it. Don’t want it, about it or abandon it, or sell it off.

Women saying otherwise are just feminist, man hater, and gold diggers. There is no other option. There is not other response.

You want the kid, pay for it or abandon it. Women’s noises against this are just lies and hatred.

MrBrittle · 2023-12-04T18:21:15+00:00

None.

It's like asking yourself what the ideal conditions are for a rape, a massacre or a bomb exploding in a square.

If the outcome is a bad thing, no condition that favors it should be called "ideal."

A child depends on its father and mother to survive, abortion is condemning the child to death, be it financial or killing the child inside the womb.

People who support these things are not entitled to any moral claim when they have been victims of something, as they wish the worst for others.

thisreallyisnotok · 2023-12-04T20:57:24+00:00

You should be able to relinquish paternal obligations in the window where it is safe for them to have an abortion. The father should still cover half of medical costs for however long they remain in term or if they choose to carry term. Mothers can still put up their child for adoption if they have religious views against abortion

FutureBannedAccount2 · 2023-12-04T22:53:57+00:00

It should have the same timeline as a normal abortion. Up until that time the father can decide he doesn’t want to take financial responsibility.

If the mother fails to identify a father in a reasonable time that would allow paternity testing then she forfeits cho support unless the father is intentionally dodging the test to stall

jay10033 · 2023-12-05T02:18:54+00:00

Hard to say what the outcome would be but if the mother doesn’t get child support from the father she will have to get it from the government/aka taxes.

This should not be allowed. At the very least, there should be a contra Social Security account that offsets the expenses.

would there be a limit on how late you can have an abortion, would the same limit go for financial abortion? It’s different everywhere but let’s say you have until the end of the first trimester/12 weeks to officially have your “financial abortion” Or could the child already be 10 years old and the father could be like I’m done.

It should be equal to the legal limit that women have.

would a prior relationship with the mother change anything? a surprise pregnancy from a one night stand is very different to a pregnancy with your long term partner.

No.

would the income of the mother have any weighting on the outcome

No. Why would it? Hey body, her choice, her responsibility. If you're grown enough to have a child, you should know how much it costs.

would this be universal or only parallel to the abortion laws in each country/state since most people here are American.

Parallel.

DXBrigade · 2023-12-05T11:06:36+00:00

I am against the idea of forcing people to be parents, so I think it's okay for fathers to abandon their child. Maybe they should file a paper where they reject their paternal rights. I wouldn't call it financial abortion, you are just abandonning your kid.

AbsolutelyNobody0 · 2023-12-04T18:38:07+00:00

I would make child support not exist unless the following two conditions are met:

The man and woman are/were married.
It's verifiably his child.

Also, I'm leaning towards abortion illegal and welfare state gone.

No-You7911 · 2023-12-04T21:08:28+00:00

Actually, a few states in the US have recently suggested laws to address this. What they are suggesting is there has to be an existing relationship in place or the father can legally opt out of child support.

If the child is a product of a one night stand or FWB situation, she will not be able to get child support. This further will be based on actual child need and not his income so the amount will be capped so no matter how much the father makes, she will only get enough for basic needs.

This means no designer clothes, private schools and all spending will need to be reported to the state.

I think, but I could be wrong that they will be required to show proof the relationship was longer than a year to qualify.

They are also looking at making paternity tests mandatory at birth because of the sheer amount of false claims.

MyLastBestChance · 2023-12-04T21:32:30+00:00

Before any sex is had, the man advises the woman that he will not be willing to take any responsibility for any children born and they make an appointment at a "Reproductive Counseling Office" where they would verify the absence of a current pregnancy through a blood test (if there was already a pregnancy, they would not be eligible and normal child support laws would apply).

They would receive legal and mental health counselling both separately and together about the consequences of signing an agreement to that effect and confirming that both parties understand that verbal agreements do not supersede the contract.

Both are also counseled about birth control and conception (because sex ed is a crap shoot and people believe the darndest things) and provided with birth control if applicable.

If, at the end of the appointment both want to move forward, a legal document to that effect (and including language permanently stripping the man and his family of any and all parental or familial rights to any child that may be born and including a lifetime "stay away" protective order should a child result) is signed by both covering any conception that may occur between them during a finite period of their choice (3 months, 6 months, whatever).

That document is filed with the State and copies are provided to both parties. Should they choose to renew the document, they would need to both appear at the Office, in person, verify lack of current pregnancy and re-sign. If they did not do so and a subsequent pregnancy occurred, normal child support law would apply.

The man would be solely responsible for any fees associated with this process.

That is the only way I see it working.

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ItWasBrokenAlready · 2023-12-05T06:33:10+00:00

I think it would be okay if it was an written agreement with either a time clause or until revoken signed by both parties prior to the conception happening.

theannieplanet82 · 2023-12-06T11:30:54+00:00

Kids need child support, even when conceived by accident or without both parties into the idea of parenthood. Who not just freeze your sperm and then get a vasectomy?

Title	What would the ideal conditions for financial abortion look like?
Author	AdhesivenessLevel379
Upvotes	3
Comments	151
Date	December 4, 2023 5:53 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/18apsqe/what_would_the_ideal_conditions_for_financial/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/what-would-the-ideal-conditions-for-financial.1240016 https://theredarchive.com/post/1240016

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