Thoughts on “the wall” and beyond

thetruthishere_ · 2023-10-21T13:26:10+00:00

We only have a fertility 'wall'.

People still date and marry at all ages and youre right marring older marriages tend to last longer.

Lift_and_Lurk · 2023-10-21T12:12:22+00:00

The wall is just a RP/young man revenge fantasy that “one day thier looks are going to fade and then all the cute girls my age will regret ignoring such a great guy like me!”

Let’s be real tho: what hot and attractive woman, even into her 30s and 40s is looking back at old HS-college-past co workers that they never wanted and going “oh damn it. I really missed out on that guy in HS that never spoke to me. I could be with the assistant manager of a GameStop!”

Excellent_Badger123 · 2023-10-21T11:18:41+00:00

There are never guarantees in people. Even if you marry the perfect guy at the perfect age in the perfect decade, he can change or you might in ways other than aging…which actually is a certainty for both genders.

Fiestygirl000 · 2023-10-21T12:02:42+00:00

Agree. I never understood the fascination of getting married young when so many men on the forum proclaimed that only beauty matters to them and only younger women have value. If an early 20s woman was to marry there is no guarantee that her partner will stick beside her bc she gave him her youth; wife googles are not real.

Women shouldn’t be pressured to get married just live your life

Electronic_West_1831 · 2023-10-21T11:51:37+00:00

Any man spouting off about “the wall” is unlikely to ever get a wife in the first place

Cool_Relative7359 · 2023-10-21T12:23:47+00:00

The "wall" is a revenge fantasy men have. And propaganda so that women actually marry them before they figure what they want out of life.

The fact is, at least looking at my parents, my mom always had options even when they were together, men were always hitting on her. and that's still true now that she's divorced (but is voluntarily celibate) and my dad...does not. It is not voluntary. And he looks good compared to most men his age. (not fat, full head of dark hair in his 60s) and has more money than most. Still not enough to make him interesting to most women. My mom on the other hand, is annoyed by the amount of attention she gets from men.

Nellylocheadbean · 2023-10-21T13:06:42+00:00

Another shaming tactic because the men that use this are typically miserable that they’re not wanted or respected or both. Men want a woman that’s in her peak beauty and want her to settle for an average man who splits the bill because he can’t afford to take care of her.

It doesn’t even make sense numbers wise, especially if every women were to do this. There’s only but so many attractive 30+ men who make enough to take care of a woman and be in shape.

What exactly is the incentive for the beautiful 21 year old woman to be with average Joe who makes 45k at 33 years old, overweight, and beginning to bald?

Pola_Lita · 2023-10-21T11:20:19+00:00

"The Wall" popularity is mainly with those who would have been happier in the times when women had little choice other than to marry.

It's a form of revenge fantasy.

Dagenius1 · 2023-10-21T16:34:32+00:00

I’m a big believer that the “wall” is now just a tool for both sides of that debate. The pill people overstate it..the anti pill people understate it.

I don’t say anyone should or should not get married young but I will say that women who want children should try to have them earlier rather than later.

grillopie · 2023-10-21T11:39:53+00:00

its not so much a wall as all the good ones get taken. it affects men too. marrying too early has problems too, so the “optimal” time to get married is around the time everyone gets married; late 20s to mid 30s.

in reality, you only meet who you meet so if you don’t meet people you think you want to get married to you shouldn’t, and its better to wait. its just that if you know marriage is what you want, you should probably start looking earlier, to give yourself time to fail and give yourself time to learn. like early 20s.

Stop_Maximum · 2023-10-21T13:15:30+00:00

The wall doesn’t exist, it’s a social construct which is usually used to put fear on whoever you’re targeting. Also, it’s in the interested of some for people to get married that young as they are usually very naive.

Ok_Smile_60 · 2023-10-21T15:33:41+00:00

If divorce is what you’re concerned about, get married after 25 and have mother sexual partners. Overwhelmingly the biggest impact on divorce.

As for ‘the wall’ it’s less to do with people aging badly, and more that decent people tend to get married. So if you’re 33 and looking to get married, it’s not that you’re bad, it’s that the remaining men are worse.

I’d say it’s worse for men, as women have much less resistance to finding a relationship, while plenty of decent men just don’t have the social skills to court a women, but are great partners, so more diamonds in the rough 30+ for women to find.

Flip side, older men as you say can date a little younger, so I guess balances out

sheep5555 · 2023-10-21T18:39:29+00:00

Urban dictionary defines "post wall woman" as

A woman who has passed her fertility window and has become very unattractive to men. https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Post%20Wall%20Woman

If a man is dating with the intention to start a family, women who have hit "the wall" will not be selected.

Some rough googling, ~80% of women ever have children. If you are intending to not have children "the wall" doesnt really matter, but you're looking for a smaller and smaller percentage of options as you age as people get married or are dating with the intention to have children

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2018/01/18/theyre-waiting-longer-but-u-s-women-today-more-likely-to-have-children-than-a-decade-ago/

tl;dr as a woman you have numerous options and a lot of time in your 20s, when you get into your mid 30s you become invisible to a large percentage of the dating market aka hitting the wall

TheOffice_Account · 2023-10-21T14:57:20+00:00

"The wall", as explained by Rollo (the dude who coined the term) is that everyone - men and women - reach a point in their life where they realize that they are not getting the sexual attention from people that they used to get. The reason this is called the wall, and is used to poke at women, is because in the dating-sexual arena, women hit the wall in their late 20s/early 30s, whereas for men, it is more phased-spread out, and at a later age. Men never have a peak in sexual value attractiveness the way women do (the reason why so many men in their 20s tend to struggle with dating), but they also don't have a wall (or a cliff) that they encounter.

I don't particularly see the error in this logic but I'm happy to be corrected.

uterine_blackmail · 2023-10-21T19:20:50+00:00

I have never been attracted to a man over 28-29. Period. Mysoginists are using scare tactics to force women into marrying men they are not truly attracted to. It's a recipe for disaster. The wall is a lie. Yes, women age and become less attractive (even though there are cases of women who are more attractive in their 40s than they have ever been in their 20s). But men age too, and they age terribly. Women are not attracted to old farts, contrary to popular belief. Yes, we might use an old fart as a walking ATM machine, but we will not be truly attracted to an old fart. Kissing an old guy's mouth is like licking cemetery soil.

The wall is a revenge fantasy. The wall is a smoke screen. The wall is a lie sold to desperate guys who are clinging to hope.

All these guys who are talking about the wall act like you get married in your 20s, and then you live happily ever after. These guys are nuts. Even after you get married, it is not a done deal. Every single woman I know who married in her 20s is divorced by age 35 and if she is not divorced, she is miserable.

Women, if you are reading this: never settle. You were sold a lie. Everybody was sold a lie. It is biologically impossible to keep the "flame" of attraction forever. Do not marry young. Terrible terrible advice

no202 · 2023-10-22T04:16:59+00:00

“The wall” is a thing that incels believe and not someone I’d want to be in a relationship with in the first place.

Junior_Ad_3086 · 2023-10-23T05:55:36+00:00

i wouldn't have left any of my exes just because they aged. when you grow and build a life together, have history etc., stuff like that is much more important than being with a young hottie (at least for me). sure there are men who divorce their wives later in life to date a younger woman but how many are like that really? most divorces are initiated by women and not all men who initiate do so to get a 'younger model'. so it's a tiny fraction of men.

if i was with my college gf now, i'd know that she doesn't have trauma from other men and didn't ride the carousel for a decade. we probably would already have kids or at least plan to have children soon. we would have a meaningful bond, having gone through different life stages together. if i date a woman my age now? very different scenario. there's no history or bond, they're just strangers. you can't compare the two.

you often hear women complain about the dating pool above 30 and how the single dudes that are left are peter pans, don't want to commit, narcissists, men who are single for a reason, all the good ones are taken and so on. well, it applies to lots of women in their 30s too. the good women i know from high school or uni (women who i would've considered dating back then if i was single) are almost all in relationships or married now for example.

obviously women still have options in later years, just not as much or with the same types of men necessarily. that doesn't mean that nobody wants them or they can't find anyone.

captainsaveahoe69 · 2023-10-21T12:59:48+00:00

The wall is just biological. Women's eggs dry up by a certain age. But women will always have access to sex and relationships at any age.

kvakerok · 2023-10-21T14:41:08+00:00

Age gaps are also shown the impact the likelihood of divorce.

So does high N-count, but for some reason y'all vehemently defend the hoes. 🤔

AceOfSpadesGymBro · 2023-10-21T11:10:21+00:00

Girl, marry young so when you inevitably get divorced you are still cute enough to get another guy.

SamuraiGoblin · 2023-10-21T11:49:57+00:00

Female fertility drops rapidly after the age of 32 and the probability of a genetic disorder increases rapidly.

Usually, when a man and woman gets married, they would like to have children together. Having children is not always an easy thing. Some couples try for a long time before getting pregnant and sometimes there are gut-wrenching miscarriages. Years can tick by before a child appears.

So if a man is genuinely looking to date with the hopes of marrying a wonderful woman and having multiple babies with her, it makes total sense to err on the side of caution and find someone in their 20s.

Yes women can have babies much beyond that, but as every year passes by the likelihood of there being a problem increases a lot.

Obviously a woman's worth os more that just having babies, but having babies is a very very large part of why a lot of people want to get married.

It's not "men are perverts for wanting younger women". It's "why would a man choose a women who's fertility window is rapidly closing, over one who has a much greater chance of having healthy children for a longer time?"

It's not sexism to want to increase the odds of having healthy children.

upsidemaze · 2023-10-21T14:21:16+00:00

The wall as a concept was made to explain why a 30 something woman is now ready to fuck a beta engineer, while not giving a fuck about him in his 20s. It was meant to explain that women baby fever ends beta will suddenly not be entitled to sex.

It was used to warn men to use Birth Control with women in her 30s because she is more likely to baby trap you.

It was used to guide men to marry women in their 20s if they are in their 30s because women hitting the wall have reached their epiphany phase and you are more likely to be settled for and get a deadbedroom with you marry woman in her 30s.

It was meant to be used from a male's perspective. It was descriptive of women, not prescriptive for woman. Its the weebs who wanted to feel good about themselves started shelling the advice to women to marry young.

As someone who’s in her early 20s, of the reasons I would never go for a much older guy is that I’d be aware that a big reason he’s interested in me is because of my age.

And the reason a 30s stable beta guy should not marry the 30 year old version of you is because you want him for his money, stability and put him in deadbedroom

That’s not going to bode well for someone who chose me for my youth and I’d expect to get swapped out like a tired pair of shoes.

Men your age can swap you with younger version of you too. Technically they would find it easier

Whether or not a woman gets married during her ‘peak’ she’s going to get older regardless.

If you want to find a man when you are in your 30s you are gonna have less options than in your 20s. By how much, depends on how hot you are. A man your age i.e. is his 30s will choose woman in her 20s to you given all things equal.

So I don’t really see the point in caring so much about this “wall”.

You will, when you reach epiphany phase, until then its something you can forget.

If anything it seems like once you’re in your 30s and dating men your age, you know they’re not after you for solely superficial factors and the hopes you’ll be impressionable and not have a backbone.

Solely is the key word, there will always be superficial features at play. And they will determine how many options you have.

Marriage market is free market, men want to find women that match their value. You will get man in your 30s that match your value. Its not that difficult. Feminists are trying to shame men into not marrying young women and they are failing.

So you have a choice and you bear the responsibility of your own life. You get to choose what to do and so do "redpillwomen" who marry young. We can argue about it for days, but truth of the matter is, you will find out, one way or another.

NataliaCaptions · 2023-10-21T15:45:02+00:00

ITT : Women proving they can't properly understand abstract ideas and are unable to project themselves in the future.
Most "redpillers" understand that dating is gonna be hell for them after college because of the male:female ratio and the fact there is no third place anymore. They also understand most of them have no chance on dating aps.

Meanwhile, most females think that generalizations are oppressive, that everyone is unique, that you can't analyze reality. The wall isn't you becoming ugly and rejected. The wall is you having extreme decreased chances of bagging the top-tier guys you want ("Oh, I like them tall and chiseled but it's just my individual preference tee-hee").

Yes, men are into YOUTH and BEAUTY but the thing is, a man, even after his partner ages will still look at her as if she didn't age provided she is sweet. Meanwhile, women are into many things but their partner somehow stop having them (Money for example) they will LEAVE

So YES, marry young or you're gonna end up like all these 30+s women wondering why the guys they want are acting like fuckboys (spoiler alert : Now they can, they have the advantage)
Inb4 "Oh no, it didn't happen to me/my friends". Statistics don't care about your anecdotes

PS : I was provocative on purpose. Lots of women can think properly ;)

RuggedIndividualist7 · 2023-10-21T17:23:35+00:00

I know some women who're closing in on 40 and definitely can't get the men they use'ta be able to get. Most of those guys were players anyways and I guess the lowly average guys still aren't on their radar.

It's just how it goes. A lot of older guys can still find someone decent, though. So, I don't know if there's a wall, more like they have to come down to Earth or stay single. Most guys should avoid those types anyways.

lolthankstinder · 2023-10-21T12:23:35+00:00

If a guy is telling women to get married early they’re probably some ancient conservative old fart. Most young guys talk about the wall because women neglect us 18-30 and then only finally start to give us the time of day facing the imminent loss of their fertility whilst complaining about how bitter, resentful, insecure, and inexperienced we are. Most young guys don’t want to get married early either, especially when we’re neglected and have a hard time exploring and meeting women and figuring out what we actually want long term.

Bro_with_passport · 2023-10-21T15:58:25+00:00

The wall is just saying that women get less physically attractive over time after a while. But if you’re growing old with someone, that relationship grows, and it more than makes up for any loss of youth.

Is it a good idea for women to get married in their prime? Probably, but idk I just work here. I’m probably waiting a while, I want to get married in my late 20s/early 30s.

_Remember_me_not_ · 2023-10-21T13:40:54+00:00

You should try it and then tell us latter how it feels to trying to date after reaching 30. The wall always comes as a steep slope for women. Sure, you will still get sex and young ones will still want to screw you but the scope of real relationship will be very slim. You do see the social media filled with crying, complaining and whining old women and single mothers right? You don't even have to go too far for that.

Crafty_Letter_1719 · 2023-10-21T12:22:23+00:00

People tend to use the term “the wall” as the end point for a women’s beauty and sexual attractiveness but that’s not what it means at all.

It simply means that practically all woman( in the eyes of heterosexual men) hit a physical attractiveness peak about their mid 20’s. This is not an “incel” revenge fantasy. This is the conclusion of numerous studies that show men universally, regardless of race, age or social status, find woman most sexually attractive between her late teens and mid twenties. This is all tied into evolutionary biology as this is when woman are most fertile. It’s all very logical but of course causes some anguish because nobody wants to hear they have peaked ( from a beauty standpoint) by the tender age of 25 and there is nothing they can do about it.

However “peaking” is not the same as suddenly becoming unattractive. A post wall woman in her 40 cam still be incredibly beautiful-she’ll just never be as attractive( to the majority of men) as she was when she was 25. This is nothing to get upset about. This is just a fact of life. Everybody ages and everybody on the planet( male and female) has that brief moment in time they are at there sexual peak. Some people have higher peaks than others but everybody has a peak and everybody hits “the wall” at some point.

The idea then that a woman should settle down during her sexual peak isn’t so much about marriage and ever lasting happiness it’s also rooted in sex and evolutionary biology. In a post sexual revolution age people almost forget that sex is primarily about reproduction and not just a fun past time.

If a woman wants to have the strongest and healthiest possible offspring( which is what she is subconsciously calculating every time she is horny jumps into bed with somebody) it makes sense for her to procreate at both the time she herself is at her physical peak and also with a partner at his peak-both physically and in terms of his capability of raising the child.

virtuousgo · 2023-10-21T14:19:39+00:00

The main reason men tell woman to marry sooner is because we won't marry a woman who's been "ran through".That's the biggest reason.The more you age the more you've been fucked especially in today's society where woman are complete sluts.You take a 35 year old virgin woman and a 22 year old woman who's been with 25 guys I assure you everyone would pick the 35 yo virgin except for some weirdo loser beta.

fucksiclepizza · 2023-10-21T18:53:37+00:00

The wall isn't a thing, women in their 30s and 40s are still hot as fuck.

uterine_blackmail · 2023-10-21T22:32:24+00:00

That’s not going to bode well for someone who chose me for my youth and I’d expect to get swapped out like a tired pair of shoes.

You vastly overestimate men's abilities to get younger women. It's a lie that society is spreading. It happens in badly written novels and in stupid romcoms, not in real life. You don't see crusty old farts pulling hot young women. It's pure fantasy. I tell all of my girlfriends to never ever ever waste their youth with an old fart, but some women will date an old fart and get his money or use him and then discard him, because we are not attracted to old men. Old men can't satisfy us in bed and they are just yuck

Excellent_Badger123 · 2023-10-21T13:04:45+00:00

Anyone who bases their self esteem on their youthfulness is doomed. I’m old, it’s really not terrifying.

Intelligent_Dead1 · 2023-10-21T13:17:01+00:00

There is absolutely no wall for woman unless she’s at a advanced age 60-90 before they hit these ages they are treated like gods and can practically sleep with/date anyone they want besides like 5% of Chad’s who wouldn’t look in there direction .

Lina-Inverse · 2023-10-21T16:31:46+00:00

Everyone has an age at which some aspect of their physical attribute peaks, so in that respect everyone has a wall. For looks I think it is pretty much universally agreed that women looks peak around their mid 20s.

For men it is a lot more variable. Men who look a lot younger than their age peak later in their mid 30s, and men who are bit more "rugged" peak earlier in the 20s..

What I think thos is a man can easily maintain the looks he has in his 30s well into his 50s.

I don't think I've ever seen a woman maintain the looks they had in their 30s into their 40s.

This is assuming both parties take care of themselves.

That said I'd imagine life in terms of dating is still far easier for a woman in their 40s and 50s than guys (except for Chad ofc)

Turbulent-Tonight975 · 2023-10-21T23:23:17+00:00

Women don't usually understand that it isn't just an age thing. It is the fact that women who are single for a substantial amount of time usually have or develope personality characteristics that men usually don't want.

Women over 30 (I am over 30 so I've met them) have VERY HIGH standards for men. Even though most of these women have gained a substantial amount of weight since their early 20s and are not even close to how pretty they once were, they often want a man to marry who is either the on par with best they have have had or better than the best they have had. They don't understand that their value to men has declined at 30+ compared to in their 20s and thus the challenges of getting this guy.

I rthink a large part of that is hookup culture where almost any woman can have sex with guys a lot hotter than her. If a woman in her 30s has had the body counts that many women of that age do, it means she has very likely experienced sex with hotter men than the caliber of men who are willing to have a relationship and marry her at 30+.

I have seen this with numerous women in my social circles who are 30+ who went from being able to easily get hot guys to fuck or have relationships with at age 27 to at age 32 having mostly men in their late 30s and early 40s (often divorced and with kids) who are willing to have relationships with them now. These women don't find them sexy or appealing because they could get way hotter partners only a few years earlier and these guys by comparison don't measure up.

The picture I am painting I think shows what a majority of single women are like over 30 years old. Also its a further issue with these women strongly prefering men who make more money than them when at 30+, these women might be doing well thus further making finding a partner she wants to be that much more challenging.

I have dated women 8-10 years younger than me and I can tell you that not even including looks, it is so much more refreshing than dating older women. Dates I've been on with 30+ age women feel like a combination of job interview and interrogation asking if I want kids or marriage and digging into finances and its just incredible. With younger women it is just fun and much more carefree. They appreciate things way more and enjoy experiences way more because they likely haven't done them. To these women there is still magic in the world while most 30+ women are way more jaded. These young women haven't been ruined by hookup culture and a distorted sense of their own value and entitled expectations they feel they are owed.

Cool_Ranch_2511 · 2023-10-22T02:28:53+00:00

How to avoid your post getting turned into a cmv by the gay mods: just put 30 different affirmative claims on your post and call it “thoughts”

WilliamWyattD · 2023-10-21T11:55:00+00:00

You have to address the Wall as a fact before thinking about what that means for a woman's life. The concept of the Wall is timeless. The Rose has lost its bloom. Etc. Etc. It was always based on the quick decline in a woman's sex appeal compared TO ITSELF. It is not meant to indicate anything about how women compare to men in overall appeal, etc. The Wall is based on 3 things: 1) Men's attraction to neoteny, 2) women's closing reproductive window, and 3) that women age superficially worse than men in some respects like wrinkling, though much of this point is basically an extension of the point about male love for neoteny.

The Wall is still a thing. Compared to men, female SMV does drop more steeply as you close in on 30. However, these days, I would argue that while still existent, the Wall shifts later and the incline is less steep. In absolute terms, women age better now. Less sun exposure. Less hard labor. Less children and breast feeding. Better skin care and technology. The reproductive window is longer due to technology and other factors as well.

But perhaps the key point is that women don't really allow as much intergenerational intersexual competition as well because, for various reasons, age gap relationships are not as attractive to modern women. And women have more agency in choosing their mates. This includes, most importantly, that the 'stay single' option is no longer a lifestyle death sentence. Women also exert pressure on the men in their lives (brothers, husbands, friends, coworkers, etc.) not to date too young, further decreasing female intergenerational competition.

Thus, all in all, the actual impact of the Wall on mating--beyond the reproductive window still closing--is greatly reduced for a woman. But it is still very real psychologically, especially for attractive women. If you ask older women who were quite pretty when young, being young and beautiful is like being a rock star. The way you are treated is different. Youthful beauty doesn't just get more attention from men, it gets a kind of romantic ideal attention (even if somewhat fake). The quality is quite different: these are the kind of women men wrote poems for, died for, and so on. As a woman loses her neoteny, even if she is still considered sexy and gets a lot of attention, that romantic gloss goes away. Women can feel the difference. It is more conventional sexual attraction or even romantic interest. But there will be no poems, no adulation, no wars fought for their honor, and so on. To what extent an individual woman cares about this is on her, of course.

AccountantLeast1094 · 2023-10-21T11:25:54+00:00

The idea behind get married before 30 is the belief that women should pick someone good for her and tie him down while she is youthful & beautiful isn't it?

And that after 30, her looks begin to fade and her choice of men starts going down.

I think it's true. as shallow as it sounds, being beautiful is very beneficial for both men and women, especially women.

A beautiful women will have a much larger pool of men to choose from than a women who's average looking.

Women generally starts to lose their beautiful looks after she hits late 20s and early 30s. Wrinkles, dry skin, gain weight etc.

I've dated a women who was 32, I thought she was a good-looking until I saw her photos from 5-6 years ago. And holy hell she was not just good looking, she was asian movie actress level good looking in her mid 20s.

Edit: it seems like the fact that women's appearance starts to go down after 30s seem to offend many people. That's one of the bitter truth if life.

ratboi34 · 2023-10-21T11:28:34+00:00

There is a decrease in physical attractiveness in women after the age of 30. Women in their 20s are physically the most desired one's for men of every age group. That doesn't mean dating gets much harder for women at 30, since it's easy to attract and get dates with all types of men as a woman. 50%+ of women get married past the age of 30 in the US. Women that are single at a later stage of life tend to be more bitter tho, so there might a psychological wall for some older women, that might make dating harder for them. I think there is the fertility wall around the age of 35. Women generally prefer men that are at their status level or above and these men, like most men, want children and might start to filter out women of that age group and look for women that are younger than them. There is a wall for men as well. I have described it in other comments in more detail, but according to studies on men and commitment and attractiveness, men seem to have their prime years from their mid twenties up to the age of 33. After that there is a slight decrease in willingness to commit and some are giving up. Their experience still remains fairly positive until the age of 38. At 39 many men seem to lose hope and give up dating. So I would say in general women hit the wall at 35 and men at 39. Women's peak is 19-29 and men's peak 23-33.

banned4tellindtruth · 2023-10-21T11:33:55+00:00

Women can marry whenever they want. But men tend to be more attracted to younger women so younger women tend to have more dating options.

If a woman can find the man of her dreams when she's 40 or 50, more power to her. But usually the younger women just have more guys chasing them, and more guys willing to marry them as opposed to just pump and dumping.

Lina-Inverse · 2023-10-21T11:54:32+00:00

So why would I commit to someone if they only primarily value me for something temporary?

Uh everyone values physical attractiveness in a partner and that is temporary. You're then just assuming it is the primary thing they value you for.

once you’re in your 30s and dating men your age, you know they’re not after you for solely superficial factors and the hopes you’ll be impressionable and not have a backbone.

Wait how exactly do you know they're not after you for solely superficial factors just because you are both 30? As a guy in my mid 30s who dates between ages 25 and 35, my mind doesn't just switch from superficial mode to non-superficial mode if the first digit of the woman's age is a 2 or a 3.

One could argue any age choice is superficial right off the bat. I'm personally choosing ages where I feel the woman is (old/mature) enough and established enough in life to have a serious relationship (ie over age 25) and if the relationship goes somewhere meaningful, there is the option to start a family, but no pressure to do so immediately as I do not want kids within the next 3 years (so I don't date women over the age of 35) That's the reason for the age range. After that physical attractiveness comes into play.

All of the women are getting "chosen for their youth" so I'm not sure how magically this isn't superficial if I chose a woman who is the same age as me, vs choosing someone who is 25. They all are getting chosen with the exact same criteria in mind. Women who are ~25 years old have more to offer than looks, even if looks is one of their peak attributes at that age and to assume anyone in their 30s only values looks if they date a 25 year old is pretty silly. There isn't THAT much difference in looks between a woman in her mid 20s and early 30s.

throwaway651109 · 2023-10-21T13:18:46+00:00

It is not about getting older. It is about options.

Young women have many options to pick men she wants, and if she settles down early, that means it is more likely he is what she wants all along. This is in contrast to settling down later. There is a possibility that she settles down because she is running out options and her current mate might not be what she wants. However there is a risk if she breaks up with him, she might end up alone forever.

This is comparable when you have plethora of choices but decide to pick one early instead of trying everything because you already get what you want.

"How about women who find a man she wants at late 20 or early 30s?" Obviously there are such women, but as I said there is an element of "running out of options" due to her not being as young and running out of time. Unfortunately there is no way of knowing which one is which. There is no third party assessment for this. One can know from asking her history and make their own decision.

So on your reasoning, yes men are attracted to youth, however it is not just that, but we also feel more secure since you have options open wide but choose to be with us.

AdEffective7894s · 2023-10-21T13:22:25+00:00

https://youtu.be/3F_KlBKUSv4?si=ukHmweSu_0ugHQZn

This is video where the Psychiatrist breaks down the best possible timeline for childbirth

SecondEldenLord · 2023-10-21T11:54:42+00:00

The wall is real. Women are at their prime in their 20s so they should get marry and have kids quickly with the man they want, otherwise, they have to settle with a guy they do not want.

Horses4causes · 2023-10-21T11:45:41+00:00

A woman hits the wall as a result of her engaging in sexual intercourse before reaching full physical maturity, which is the approximate age of 28 years.

MrBrittle · 2023-10-21T11:49:08+00:00

"As someone who’s in her early 20s, of the reasons I would never go for a much older guy is that I’d be aware that a big reason he’s interested in me is because of my age"

If so, then you shouldn't get involved with younger guys either, as they are also interested in your age. And look, what you said is a double standard, you are turning off older men because of their age due to the fact that they turn off women because of their age, while you and younger men do the same.

My fiancée (25F) is 7 years younger than me, if I can have a 25 year old woman, it's obvious that I will prefer her over a 32 year old, after all the skin is better, less trauma from exes, counting of 0, no children, etc.

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AdEffective7894s · 2023-10-21T13:22:10+00:00

https://youtu.be/3F_KlBKUSv4?si=ukHmweSu_0ugHQZn

This is video where the Psychiatrist breaks down the best possible timeline for childbirth

Teflon08191 · 2023-10-21T16:20:44+00:00

So why would I commit to someone if they only primarily value me for something temporary?

Why would you conduct yourself in such a way that someone would only value you for something temporary? A woman who brings more than just her youth and beauty to the table need not be concerned that people will only value her for those temporary things.

Professional_Bad_282 · 2023-10-21T16:29:20+00:00

There's no wall for women. Forget it. They can fuck around, cheat, marry and have children with someone stable(+not even have sex with him later) or even pass someone's else kid as his. And he will be okay to raise the kid bcz he bonded with the child. Enough of those cases out there. So just go back to your room and lock yourself and take your medication of SSRI, Adderall or whatever. Women can do whatever they want.

There's just fertility wall and coping about their husband beating his meat to 25 yo women that is on his screen.

Capital-Literature-9 · 2023-10-21T16:37:34+00:00

You're leaving out half the actual point of this "wall" idea (I've heard it called many different things). It's not purely for your youth that men will want to marry you for, it's everything that comes with being younger: innocence, purity, and also beauty and fertility. Not solely for those two things.

But innocence/ lack of experience is a big one because a masculine man wants to feel like a leader/ teacher in the relationship, which is also reinforced by a lot of women wanting this from their man. And the idea is if you're with someone young you can do this much more easily, you will have experienced less and as a result that man will feel like the leader/ teacher. The older people get, the more things they go through in life: trauma, difficulty, experiences etc. and generally for women this results in them becoming more masculine, and most masculine men don't particularly want a masculine woman. Call it unfair, misogynistic or whatever this just how it be sometimes.

Purity also playing a part because as much as people live to masquerade with this lie that "body count doesn't matter", it absolutely does. There are always consequences to actions whether they are immediate or not, it's no different for sex and to pretend otherwise is delusional. And being with someone younger ideally should mean that this person has been with less people sexually.

I know this might seem like nitpicks but it's a huge part of this ideology that you should be aware of so you know what you're arguing against.

CasseroleTruck · 2023-10-21T17:28:26+00:00

I mean looks are temporary - you can maintain to a point but generally you look worse as you age, yet there's this overall belief that it's better to be wanted for your looks than your money. Everything is potentially temporary, but with money at least there's this idea that if you're smart you can grow it long term ergo you will only get more money with time. But either way, looks or finances, modern relationships to a degree will always be shallow and transactional-based.

CalmNeedleworker3100 · 2023-10-21T18:27:24+00:00

"I’m not going to look the same in 10, 15 years"

He will fall in love with you when you are your prettiest, then when your good looks fade he will still love you because he has those memories of you when you were young.

MxMaster9907 · 2023-10-21T18:40:57+00:00

Men hit a wall too lol

SlowEffective8146 · 2023-10-21T19:19:28+00:00

Your peak is for your own dating purposes. How many millions of women on tiktok are posting about how dating 30+ sucks and their options suck and men don't want to commit and yadda yadda.

Your 20s should be used to secure the best possible man for yourself when your value is at it's peak as a woman. It's good advice from men.

C0UNT3RP01NT · 2023-10-21T22:03:28+00:00

I wouldn’t say a man is interested in you just because of your age. He’s interested in you because of your looks. He marries you because you add value to his life, and it’s pretty hard to add value to someone’s life on looks alone.

When a man sees a beautiful woman he thinks she’s beautiful. He doesn’t think she’s young and that’s why she’s beautiful. So don’t take it like he’s approaching you because you’re young.

That being said I’m neither condemning nor condoning age gaps but I think this purity culture around what is and what isn’t an acceptable age gap is a little asinine. If you’re 18 you’re free to do whatever you want. You want to date a 45 year old, go for it. An age gap doesn’t inherently mean abuse, honestly it probably just means he’s an interested in a hot girl.

But live your life and date who you want. “The wall” only exists on the internet. Stay in shape, moisturize, eat healthy, you’ll pull at any age.

thisreallyisnotok · 2023-10-21T22:43:22+00:00

Men looking to start a family there late 30s and 40s date women younger because women after 37 have exponentially more issues conceiving.

There’s no looks wall but there’s definitely a fertility wall and it’s called menopause

Uglypostwall · 2023-10-22T01:35:30+00:00

Good solution is death after 30 lol

rothkochapel · 2023-10-22T12:06:45+00:00

So why would I commit to someone if they only primarily value me for something temporary?

aging together with someone ≠ meeting them after a certain age

rootsnyder · 2023-10-22T13:35:44+00:00

"The bottom line of this discussion is usually “and that’s why women should marry while at their peak before the age of 30”.

Okay and… then what? After someone gets married at 25, they’re still going to age."

I fail to understand how a group of people could be so willfully ignorant about the blatantly obvious, over and over and over again. Nonetheless every time I log into ppd i see this cope-cycling that continuously happens.

Everything has to do with fertility and sexuality is all evopsych. Men are far more interested in COUPLING with women in a certain age range, after they've coupled it doesn't matter they can grow old with you and not give af, but men who have the option to couple with younger women will, because that's the age range of fertility, and theres no evolutionary reason to couple up with someone past the ages where they are fertile. There is however plenty of evolutionary reasoning for STAYING coupled up with someone past age of fertility (kids duh).

Now being younger and finding a man younger is extremely important FOR YOUR AGE GROUP. All of the men of any value will of all ready coupled off by the time you hit wall, its a completely different game, IDGAF what some ex-fds, pinkpiller, double xx chromosones, ppder tells you. The quality of men you are going to be able to get past a certain age will see a very sharp decline.

Title	Thoughts on “the wall” and beyond
Author	AdhesivenessLevel379
Upvotes	78
Comments	414
Date	October 21, 2023 10:59 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/17d005x/thoughts_on_the_wall_and_beyond/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/thoughts-on-the-wall-and-beyond.1235881 https://theredarchive.com/post/1235881

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