Men having lower standards of cleanliness is not a "flaw"

bluestjuice · 2024-01-27T03:37:11+00:00

I really think it depends on the specifics here. Are we talking about getting fresh towels out every week instead of every other day? Or are we talking about piles of unwashed dishes covering every surface of the kitchen?

relish5k · 2024-01-27T04:50:31+00:00

It’s not an aesthetic difference to have dirty dishes piled up in the sink.

It’s not an aesthetic differences to have overflowing trash and dirty laundry bins

It’s not an aesthetic difference to have floors covered with dirt and grime, and mildew all over the bathroom.

Especially in a house with children, these sorts of conditions create an unsafe and neglectful environment. So yeah, everybody better do their fare share of dishes, laundry, trash, cleaning. It’s about hygiene not whether or not the curtains are dusty.

Economy-Shake-1448 · 2024-01-27T03:10:04+00:00

How often do men vacuum? How often do men wipe down the surfaces around them with a wipe? How often do men mop? How often do they dust? How often do they scrub their toilet?

These are things I do weekly, and more if needed.

MiddleZealousideal89 · 2024-01-27T03:25:56+00:00

You can be flawed and not be a bad person but those flaws can make you a less desirable partner. Someone not meeting my standard of cleanliness is not a bad person but they are someone who I wouldn't consider for a relationship. Which is fine, we're just not compatible.

Something-bothersome · 2024-01-27T02:51:12+00:00

Ok, thats an easy to fix.

All you need to do is lower the threshold of importance and skill set of home maintenance and its presentation among women. It’s kind of happening anyway. A lot of women appear to be much less “house proud” than their mothers.

It’s become much more of a compatibility check now. Men that feel more comfortable in cleaner environments and are happy to maintain it will be more comfortable with a woman the feels the same - much less conflict that way. Men with a higher tolerance for mess will also experience less conflict with women that feel the same.

Easy.

WilliamWyattD · 2024-01-27T03:07:37+00:00

Unless a partner is getting into OCD territory, I believe the one with a lower floor just has to up their cleanliness standards. It's hard to drop your disgust level, etc. If you compromise, then the partner who needs it cleaner will spend their whole life uncomfortable in their own home. Why do that to someone you love? Or worse, they will just do the extra work to raise the cleanliness levels to what they need and resent you for it. Why do that to your relationship?

MyHouseOnMars- · 2024-01-27T03:34:33+00:00

Men will do anything (like writing this kind of posts) to avoid adult house chores lol

btw I've always dated men who are cleaner than me. So either I'm a mess or the stereotype is flawed. or both.

MongoBobalossus · 2024-01-27T02:53:44+00:00

Cleaning up after yourself is a pretty basic part of being an adult.

SleepyPoemsin2020 · 2024-01-27T02:49:09+00:00

Your conclusion (in bold) is not saying the same thing as your title. Someone can be flawed and not a "bad person."

That said...what kind of cleanliness standards we talking about? Because on reddit what I see women often complaining about is men not, you know, washing their butts or brushing their teeth etc. Basic stuff.

So are you taking your conclusion all the way to say at no point is being messy a flaw?

MyLastBestChance · 2024-01-27T03:32:42+00:00

That’s fine but it means that I will not share a home with him, spend any time in his gross home or allow him to pollute my home with his filth. So basically, he’s effectively ruled out as an option entirely. Win / win.

You guys wonder why women choose to be alone?🤣

TheRedPillRipper · 2024-01-27T04:21:12+00:00

different people have different standards of cleanliness

Nope. There’s a floor. I know, because I’m the organised/clean freak in my relationship. I’ve had enough experience now, to know there are ton of people who could not care less. Hell when my wife was on maternity leave, we got a few cleaners in. They lasted a few months in, then my wife had to let them go. They just weren’t cleaning up to my standard.

Cleanliness too isn’t a standard. It’s a necessity. Regardless of how ‘low’ someone’s habit of cleanliness is, it must by necessity, surpass a minimum level. As anything below that, is living in squalor.

Godspeed and good luck!

chalkandapples · 2024-01-27T06:33:12+00:00

I am woman with a very low standard of cleaniness and messiness. I'm also someone that is bad at details and likes to deal with bigger concepts.

In every living situation I've been in, with my husband, roommates, with my parents, I have always been less clean and worried about less stuff than others.

I think it's a flaw but I don't think I'm a bad person for being this way. However, it becomes a problem if the result of my actions put extra stress on other people. If I don't clean up the bathroom, my clean roommate that can't tolerate my mess would be forced to clean it herself. If I leave dirty dishes everywhere, my husband that gets stressed from seeing messes would have to put away my dishes after every meal. I am not wrong for being myself, but because I care about other people's feelings and quality of life, I will try my best so we can both be reasonably happy. I might not be as good as them, but I will aim to be at a level where I'm not a significant source of distress to them. My husband was ok with the result of my efforts to be better since his standards were moderate. My friend and I agreed that we should never be roommates since she told me she can't tolerate even my best efforts because her cleanliness standard is much higher. That's ok to just choose to not be together because of incompatibility, it's not ok to know you're causing distress to someone you care about and not care.

Sad_and_grossed_out · 2024-01-27T02:36:13+00:00

If you want to live like a slob you do you.

I agree it doesn't make you a bad person, but it's certainly going to put a huge limit on the amount of women willing to be in a relationship/marriage with you 🤷🏻‍♀️

howdoiw0rkthisthing · 2024-01-27T02:43:02+00:00

I’ve said it before but I’ll say it again. Most men have higher standards for their children than they do for themselves or even their partners. So no, he might not nag his wife to cook and clean if they’re child free, but he might have certain implicit beliefs about how much she should cook and clean for his children.

HmanTheChicken · 2024-01-27T04:10:47+00:00

If your standard of cleanliness gets everyone sick, how is that neutral? Is it just a difference in preference when the family gets salmonella or staph infections too?

North-Son · 2024-01-27T03:47:04+00:00

Nah mate, some men live like animals and stink. That would be solved quite easily with basic hygiene. It’s completely understandable why women avoid men like that.

gothiccbitch · 2024-01-27T05:59:14+00:00

i can smell this post

Lenovo_Driver · 2024-01-27T04:26:05+00:00

Yes it fucking is.

Nasty people should stop making excuses for being nasty. It takes more effort to be clean? so fucking what!

The reward is being called clean over nasty. I took it as a point of pride when my friends complimented how clean my bachelor apartment was because even though it was tiny they had something good to say about it especially when that same friend frequented another dude’s place that was never clean.

As a dude never accept nastiness. That can never be erased. If she smells your BO she will remember it. If your place is dirty she will remember that.

My philosophy is if someone won’t keep their environment clean their genitals won’t be either.

ezbyte · 2024-01-27T05:20:56+00:00

The men who make this argument are the same ones that won’t wash your hands after taking a dump. Your lower level of cleanliness is disgusting.

Triglycerine · 2024-01-27T05:21:55+00:00

Nah bro that's just a no-go. A household is a team.

Makuta_Servaela · 2024-01-27T03:32:26+00:00

Men aren't bad people for not meeting your expectations.

I think it would depend on the expectations. If the level of hygiene the woman is interested in "at least safe for the self, partner, and children", then it would make sense for a man who wants to treat his partner and children unsafely could be considered immoral. There's a point where the only compromise is just leaving him single.

And yes, just because you can't see the potentially dangerous bacteria doesn't mean it's not there.

sublimemongrel · 2024-01-27T04:03:23+00:00

I hate this so much this is such a cop out have a decent standard of living and kids and tell me again men love living in filth (they don’t) and are willing to accept it let alone prefer it( they don’t)

The standard of “cleanliness” between your average man versus woman isn’t so disparate to cause major discord. This is just an excuse for men being lazy, yet again.

HmanTheChicken · 2024-01-27T05:31:32+00:00

The nice thing about having a stay at home wife is that the division of labour creates itself

If she wants things super clean she can do that, if not I’m perfectly fine, but I won’t get blamed either way

bluepvtstorm · 2024-01-27T06:56:44+00:00

I’m not sleeping on sheets that are two weeks old and I don’t care how that makes anyone feel. That’s gross. Skin cells and sweat get in the fibers. No thank you.

Having standards is basic hygiene. The shower needs to be cleaned weekly, the toilet needs to be cleaned weekly otherwise it gets gross.

If you clean things more frequently, it’s easier to maintain and also breaks down less often.

LouisdeRouvroy · 2024-01-27T06:57:53+00:00

And sorry but this actually a myth:

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0049124119852395

We find that men and women respondents do not differ in their perceptions of how messy a room is or how urgent it is to clean it up.

Furthermore, the cleaning is often assessed by time spent cleaning, which is missing a very important aspect of the physical action of cleaning: efficiency.

Men are more efficient at cleaning, as evidence by the fact that single men living alone spend less time on housechores than single women living alone despite all having the same standards (see above).

As for any physical actions, men are just more efficient because they are stronger, faster, taller.

AidsVictim · 2024-01-27T09:14:13+00:00

Being too messy (especially when there's pets in a home) is definitely undesirable but there's also definitely some level of neurosis people (more commonly women) have over relatively benign levels of mess.

AceOfSpadesGymBro4 · 2024-01-27T12:44:43+00:00

I've dated a lot of women whose apartments were way messier than mine.

MistyMaisel · 2024-01-27T04:35:29+00:00

Listen, Martin Luther, you could keep trying to write your relativistic 95 theses on why men don't have to do the dishes and it's ridiculous for their wives to leave them over it...or you could just do the fucking dishes and stop losing your women over having a poopy butthole. And yes, wrecking your marriage to grandstand on some bizarre sense of "I should be allowed to be a pig in literal shit" does make you a bad person. If you're being nagged, take it seriously because that's what people who love other people do.

januaryphilosopher · 2024-01-27T10:28:06+00:00

You can't pretend like it's different standards of cleanliness when every time women stop doing it their partners complain. Turns out they also have an "aesthetic preference" to not live in filth. You're also ignoring that the majority of chores aren't cleaning - do men also have different childcare preferences, eating food preferences, wearing clean clothes preferences, paying taxes preferences and eating off clean plates preferences?

Sebermin · 2024-05-22T12:01:52+00:00

Men don't have lower standards of cleanliness than women, because women don't have THAT high standards.

apresonly · 2024-01-27T19:33:23+00:00

men don't get to control what women think their flaws are

if it would make my life worse than when i was single, its a flaw.

> Men aren't bad people for not meeting your expectations.

ah so you're assuming women think men who are imperfect are "bad"

you don't have to get universal approval from women

no one has that

what other people think about you is none of your business

Cethlinnstooth · 2024-01-27T19:35:45+00:00

It's not a flaw so long as you don't let him in your house like ever or attempt to live in his house or have kids with him.

He's fine to go live with himself or stay with his momma.

ComfortableOk5003 · 2024-01-27T05:31:44+00:00

I love how majority of the women are screeching and flying off the handle making out of pocket comments like men are just lazy, or if your standard of cleanliness makes people sick…

Like come on argue in good faith NO ONE, i repeat NO ONE is advocating for toxic levels of "cleanliness" jesus h christ

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Different_Cress7369 · 2024-01-27T05:54:14+00:00

Flawed people aren’t bad people. Seriously, one of my aunts has a seriously lassaize faire approach to cleaning. Cobwebs mean the spiders eat the mosquitoes, dim lights in the bathroom means you don’t see old copper tub needs a scrub, outside toilet means you don’t need to bother cleaning it, chooks crapping and laying eggs in the house means you don’t have to go far for fresh eggs- you get the idea. I couldn’t live like that, but her husband isn’t bothered and her kids don’t care.

dabbydab · 2024-01-27T05:56:23+00:00

Picking up after yourself, especially in shared spaces, is part of being a considerate housemate

snowyjenna · 2024-01-27T06:29:39+00:00

There are different levels of uncleanness. I would definitely mind if I go to the man's apartment and there's a pile of dirty dishes. But for example, before I lived with my partner, I definitely didn't expect him to do weekly deep cleanings as a blue-collar man who works 6 days a week and lives alone. It's just unrealistic. Of course the guy would use that one free day to relax.

Safinated · 2024-01-27T09:25:18+00:00

If you want and expect your partner to do things that she doesn’t necessarily want to do at your level, you are expected to do the same. If you’re a hypocrite or have double standards, then yes, you’re shitty

A1Dilettante · 2024-01-27T11:49:21+00:00

I'm not the neatest woman, but some dudes make me look like the neat freak because their standards don't even exist. Dishes don't exist. Grim is just backdrop.They can't even bother to half ass it because the mess just doesn't cross their radar. At least my lazy ass can acknowledge it and begrudgingly clean it up.

No-Rough-7390 · 2024-01-27T15:16:14+00:00

The same woman you first hookup with whose apartment is a literal post Katrina FEMA zone somehow will become OCD cleanly after you move in together.

Here’s a tip. If this happens to you, it has 0 to do with cleanliness/chores/etc. It’s a desire issue.

boom-wham-slam · 2024-01-27T15:53:23+00:00

If you can't compromise

Why would you have to compromise if different cleaning standards are OK? Any compromise in this situation admits wrong doing. Thats breaking frame. If she wants you to do a handstand every morning and you don't ever do hand stands like a normal adult, any "compromise" is ridiculous to entertain.

hearyoume14 · 2024-01-27T22:49:55+00:00

The partner who has a higher standard of cleanliness and aesthetic should do that themselves or learn to let it go.

I’m not talking bi-hazard more of having to have multiple throw pillows,not having anything on the coffee table or having Knick knacks that have to be dusted.

HighestTierMaslow · 2024-01-28T05:27:39+00:00

Yeah but a significant portion of men like this move in with women and just expect HER to clean more than he ever has. Essentially raising his cleaning standards because a woman is there. Also it depends on the standards of "less clean" one of my exes went so long without vacuuming with a dog youd drop something on the floor and itd be completely covered in dog hair...he said my standards were too high

Title	Men having lower standards of cleanliness is not a "flaw"
Author	AI_CODE_MONKEY
Upvotes	0
Comments	108
Date	January 27, 2024 2:32 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1ac05ya/men_having_lower_standards_of_cleanliness_is_not/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/men-having-lower-standards-of-cleanliness-is-not-a.1243902 https://theredarchive.com/post/1243902

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