New South Wales, Australia adopts affirmative consent laws

Matt_Door · 2021-05-26T19:22:49+00:00

Sounds like the one who accuses first, wins. This is going to be weaponized by malicious people.

I don’t know the particulars of Australian law or their constitution, but if it’s similar to Canada, I can’t see how this would be constitutional. The Crown must prove beyond a reasonable doubt the guilt of the accused. The accused does not have the burden of proof. This law seems to put the burden of proof on the accused and assumes they are guilty and need to prove their innocence.

psypD · 2021-05-26T23:29:15+00:00

Sex should be had only in the presence of at least 5 qualified certified witnesses otherwise it's mutual rape. CMV

xFallacyx69 · 2021-05-26T23:04:04+00:00

In the words of the late, great pussy grabber himself “sounds good, doesn’t work”. It’s gonna be a race to see who can retract consent after-the-fact.

4derp · 2021-05-27T02:16:25+00:00

It's not worth the risk of interacting with women these days. Don't be alone in a room with one. Always have witnesses. Always decline "coffee".

NockerJoe · 2021-05-26T18:47:42+00:00

Haven't australians spent the last 20 years complaining their sex and porn laws are weirdly draconian?

xQueen-Bx · 2021-05-26T19:11:22+00:00

Consent is and always has been an affirmative defence in the US and as far as I knew in the other anglosphere countries so this is a little difficult to understand, also it is a bill that has been introduced not passed. These clickbait articles are ridiculous and uninformative

fakingandnotmakingit · 2021-05-27T01:28:22+00:00

Two minds on this

1) On one hand i don't approve of criminalising normal sexual behaviour assuming physical and enthusiastic consent (eg, kissing back, moving towards you etc)

2)On the other hand there are a lot of people who are TERRIBLE about "no means no". As in, woman is limp and literally not doing anything (and half unconscious) because shes too drunk. But this isn't rape because technically she never said "no". Or her body language was very much limp or non responsive, but because the word "no" never happened its fine. My fave was a story where he offered to drive her home and then implied that if she didn't have sex with him he'd leave her stranded at 2.00am where worse things could happen because she couldn't get home safe. That's technically not a "no" either.

Personally if the law just made sure to criminalise the 2 without criminalising 1 that would be great.

Laytheblameonluck · 2021-05-27T03:21:37+00:00

Women won't follow this, as they responsive desire and a preference for dominant men.

They won't be re-educating women, so it will just end up being misused and thrown out.

nemporisso · 2021-05-26T18:50:44+00:00

It's pretty much a sex ed gimmick. Great for them, changes nothing in terms of people going about looking for sex and relationships

Sage_Planter · 2021-05-26T18:52:54+00:00

I personally only want to sleep with people who are enthusiastically interested in sleeping with me and who are fully capable of consenting to the activity.

This law is a step in the right direction. It will likely still be difficult for rape victims to seek proper justice in many cases, but this kind of legislation encourages healthier conversations about consent overall. The culture shift from "no means no" to "yes means yes" is important.

CosmicBioHazard · 2021-05-26T20:18:25+00:00

the bill requires that a person who is seeking to raise the defence of “reasonable belief in consent” must demonstrate what actions they took or what words they spoke to ensure they had consent.

In any sexual event there will be one person who initiates and one who’s initiated upon. I suspect ‘going along with’ your initiation, whatever it may be, will not be considered proof of consent, depending on the situation. In theory, if gender bias doesn’t enter into the equation, any two parties will try to protect themselves legally by struggling against eachother to claim the passive role. In practice men will largely fear false accusations by women and try to weasel their way into the passive role.

In a feminists’ perfect world, however, being in the passive role won’t even protect you and she could literally rape you and then go on to file a claim because ‘you didn’t get her consent’ to have her do that to you.

TheJim66 · 2021-05-26T18:56:34+00:00

I didn't understand, did they actually pass this or its just in the talks?

Anyway, that's both insane and dumb. Like what's the point? The accused will just say "I asked" and then theoretically its back to square one.

Why is the man presumed guilty?

reluctantly_red · 2021-05-26T20:58:00+00:00

“yes means yes”

Doesn't have to be verbal. About six years ago I was at a party in Las Vegas. I invited a woman to come to my hotel room. She accepted. When we got to the room I excused myself to use the restroom. When I emerged from the restroom she was totally naked on her hands and knees on one of the beds. Thinking that's pretty "affirmative consent."

nemma88 · 2021-05-26T20:00:59+00:00

This is essentially how it works in the UK anyway. Rape is defined as...

In relation to these offences, a person (A) is guilty of an offence if (s)he:

Acts intentionally;

(B) does not consent to the act;

And (A) does not reasonably believe that B consents.

...

Section 74 defines consent as “if he agrees by choice, and has the freedom and capacity to make that choice”.

....

Deciding whether a belief is reasonable is to be determined having regard to all the circumstances, including any steps A has taken to ascertain whether B consents (subsection (2) of sections 1 - 4). It is likely that this will include a suspect’s attributes, such as disability or extreme youth, but not if (s)he has any particular fetishes.

The 2003 Act abolished the Morgan defence of a genuine though unreasonably mistaken belief as to the consent of the complainant. The defendant (A) has the responsibility to ensure that (B) consents to the sexual activity at the time in question. It will be important for the police to ask the suspect in interview what steps (s)he took to satisfy him or herself that the complainant consented in order to show his or her state of mind at the time.

And we've sexed fine for.... 17 years.

Edit; Naturally, very few are able to reach the bar for a guilty verdict either way but we still sex fine.

Consent only makes sense as affirmative in any case. Rape is sex without consent; which means the only way not to rape is have established consent.

LeadInfusedRedPill · 2021-05-26T18:56:56+00:00

the bill requires that a person who is seeking to raise the defence of “reasonable belief in consent” must demonstrate what actions they took or what words they spoke to ensure they had consent. A failure to do or say something (that is, to “take steps”) to ascertain consent means that any belief in consent will not be reasonable.

Sounds like guilty until proven innocent

superlurkage · 2021-05-26T19:30:53+00:00

You’re just not going to be able to fuck an unconscious person anymore, how sad

midwestufohunter · 2021-05-27T01:29:49+00:00

I think it will just help men think about actually checking to see if the girl is into it, which is good.

Mondholm · 2021-05-27T06:36:10+00:00

This means i've been raped by multiple girlfriends and lover multiple times?

basedmillennial95 · 2021-05-27T14:43:27+00:00

God I'm so glad I'm a Christian mgtow. I don't have to worry about any of this shit.

Sid_Insidious · 2021-05-27T15:54:11+00:00

Affirmative consent isn't the problem.

"Enthusiastic, Continual and Ongoing Consent" isn't even the problem, albeit totally impractical.

The problem now is Retroactively Revocable Consent.

The man has to know how she's going to feel about the sex the next day. Even asking "How will you feel about this tomorrow?" is pointless because she has 12 hours in which to change her mind.

When women are this incredibly weaponized to cry rape for legit sexual encounters so they can avoid fears of appearing "loose" or "slutty", it's going to be problematic. And ironically, it's going to be more problematic for women than it is for men. Why? Because when we make something as important as consent literally meaningless because it's "revocable at any time" we give men the wrong message. We give men the message consent really means nothing, because today's consent is simply tomorrow's rape.

Women need to be held to account. Feminism doesn't do this. Feminism says that EVEN IF you enjoyed yourself on Friday night, if you feel AT ALL uncomfortable on Saturday morning, then you were probably raped. This is because feminists are man-hating assholes.

We're going to see men covertly recording conversations around sex to protect themselves. Of course, they'll make that illegal too - if you record the consent, it's rape.

Everything is just rape now. And the word rape is slowly losing all meaning. Which is a very bad thing for actual victims of rape.

Timmy721123 · 2021-05-26T18:55:10+00:00

So no more stolen kisses in a movie theater at 16.

Police to 16 y.o. boy. Did you ask permission before you kissed her? No? 1 year in prison.

I'll presume that since this is a feminist endeavor that it applies to men and women? You know equality?

So I can turn in my GF for the waking me up blow job?

NTRollin · 2021-05-26T19:05:24+00:00

Damn I didn't know Australia was still so British

The era of upsidedowncels is upon us

SaBahRub · 2021-05-26T19:05:28+00:00

Yes, the person initiating and escalating sexual activity is now going to be held responsible for obtaining consent. What a concept

wtknight · 2021-05-26T19:42:24+00:00

I have no problem with this. If more laws like this are passed men will stop having sex with drunk women and will be sure to properly vet women to ensure that they aren’t evil or crazy before being in sexual situations with them. Both of these are good things.

OddAlternatives · 2021-05-26T19:51:11+00:00

Man there’s some dudes salty about having to check your girl is into it.

CockAFuckityFuck · 2021-05-26T19:32:51+00:00

Make sure you have your lawyer on speed dial so that he/she can draw up a contract for consensual sex.

flapperfemmefatale · 2021-05-26T19:55:49+00:00

Rape is already pretty he-said-she-said. I definitely prefer an emphasis on enthusiastic consent. Honestly, anyone complaining about this is probably so atrocious that they count on technicalities to get laid.

poppy_blu · 2021-05-27T00:14:12+00:00

Yeah I don’t really know how these laws realistically solve the problem, which is fundamentally that it’s he said she said in the first place. They seem to be more virtue signalling than anything else.

That said no decent man should be upset at the concept’s face value. If getting a simple yes is that much of a hassle maybe you’re not mature enough to be fucking.

JimBeamAndCoke2016 · 2021-05-27T00:41:46+00:00

NSW were also looking at making begging and nagging for sex an offence too.

The prisons would be full of married men.

just_a_place · 2021-05-27T03:36:47+00:00

When assholes make rules like this it seems like they are putting a gun in the middle of the table between men and women and daring both sides to each be the one to take the first shot before the other one grabs it and uses it.

This is totally going to kill all form of intimacy when in the back of my mind I am always thinking she's going to change her mind and cry rape and then it will turn into one giant shit show of her word against mine.

The solution here will be to take video evidence of sex so that there is no he said she said shit. This will create a very huge incentive for more men to have cameras involved and take it to the ridiculous extreme so signing written consent forms before and after sex so that there is legal grounds to prove that she consented to the sex before, during, and then after. Yeah, real fucking romantic I tell yah. Mark my words, professional prostitution will reign supreme.

Im_The_Daiquiri_Man · 2021-05-27T01:40:30+00:00

Hey look everybody, another law protecting women from any and all accountability and delivering plausible deniability on a silver platter!

Has any guy actually met a woman that behaved as Reddit women say they do?

Every first hook up I’ve had involved body language and looks and rarely if ever some form of “I want you to do X to me”.

What kind of autistic shit is that?

This is basically criminalizing 90% of sexual encounters where “may I insert my penis?” isnt spoken?

Regret sex will now become rape because you didn’t ask to put your dick in her mouth. She was only on her knees with her mouth open to show you her fillings.

The only person who will benefit from this is Chad.

Why? Giga Chad is going to be the only guy hawt enough for a girl to push past her passive / submissive nature in order to utter the words “I want you to enter me, Chad Thundercock”

One more thing, that is 100% true - the last hook up I had I got too drunk to fuck the girl the night she came over. We passed out in bed together and I woke up with morning wood with her sucking my dick.

Was I raped?

_lemazaki · 2021-05-26T18:50:01+00:00

Just send her a SMS / Whatsapp (whatever) confirmation and print it. lol

hesipullupjimbo445 · 2021-05-26T19:12:31+00:00

If this ever happens in America I’m going straight to a lawyer and getting a legally binding contract written up that proves consent was given

Dirty_Purity · 2021-05-26T19:14:03+00:00

Better safe than sorry - ask your partner for notarized written affirmative consent. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Flightlessbirbz · 2021-05-26T19:09:18+00:00

It’s very difficult to prove rape because of the he said/she said aspect of it, which is why the conviction rate is so low. This really won’t change much in that regard, however, it might close some loopholes and make people think twice about raping someone who is unconscious and unable to say “yes” or “no.” So for that reason, I’m in favor.

QuenchlessGato · 2021-05-26T20:17:47+00:00

So the next step would be...

Both parties before the date will have to sign an agreement detailing which activities they will pursue together. In case of any sexual activity all the the details have to be agreed beforehand to avoid any rape charges.

After the meeting the signed form has to be delivered to the local ethics inspector for confirmation and safekeeping.

Rizza1122 · 2021-05-26T20:28:50+00:00

It looks a lot like guilty till proven innocent isn't it? I'm for 8f4m jury splits is rape cases to try and make this crime more prosecutable but feel like this reverses a fundamental tenent of our justice system. Innocent until proven guilty

SonicBackScratcher · 2021-05-26T20:30:43+00:00

I generally consider her tongue in my mouth and her being naked to be affirmative consent.

the bill requires that a person who is seeking to raise the defence of “reasonable belief in consent” must demonstrate what actions they took or what words they spoke to ensure they had consent. A failure to do or say something (that is, to “take steps”) to ascertain consent means that any belief in consent will not be reasonable.

Ok good I'm not a rapist there ... I think.

And thats the problem, I really dislike laws that are vague in circumstance. "Reasonable" isn't an objective measure.

PeskyHijinks · 2021-05-29T01:44:39+00:00

I really wish it was socially acceptable to sign a pre-sex contract. It would make things so much better for everyone.

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woxmei · 2021-05-26T19:01:48+00:00

I'm confused by this.

No means no and yes means yes are the same thing?

Anyone wanna explain to me the point of this law and what it would achieve?

JazziestCabbage · 2021-05-27T15:04:29+00:00

As someone who has been through an assault, I just don't understand how the line could be that blurred unless you were absolutely shit faced drunk or too terrified to talk. Generally if you want something to stop, it's a good idea to express that. It's always a good idea to tell someone you're not interested. And if they don't listen? Well that's a pretty clear case. Dude who attacked me was found guilty because he admitted i wasn't willing over text. I still think proof of non consent is a better bar than simply 'no proof of consent'. Generally people are not signing forms before having sex.

Title	New South Wales, Australia adopts affirmative consent laws
Author	OddAlternatives
Upvotes	8
Comments	238
Date	May 26, 2021 6:46 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/nlobon/new_south_wales_australia_adopts_affirmative/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/new-south-wales-australia-adopts-affirmative.775511 https://theredarchive.com/post/775511

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