This is how Mary P. Koss, one of the most prominent feminist researchers in the field of sexual violence in the United States, feels about male rape victims.

whelponry · 2015-08-23T18:12:49+00:00

A radio program on men raped by women includes an interview with her. Credit to user/nothinghere3 for his post on /r/FeMRADebates.

Edit - Partial transcript from user Tamen_ (Source)

Theresa Phung: "For the men who are traumatized by their experiences because they were forced against their will to vaginally penetrate a woman.."

Dr. Mary P. Koss: "How would that happen...how would that happen by force or threat of force or when the victim is unable to consent? How does that happen?"

Theresa Phung: "So I am actually speaking to someone right now. his story is that he was drugged, he was unconscious and when he awoke a woman was on top of him with his penis inserted inside her vagina, and for him that was traumatizing.

Dr. Mary P. Koss: "Yeah."

Theresa Phung: "If he was drugged what would that be called?"

Dr. Mary P. Koss: "What would I call it? I would call it 'unwanted contact'."

Theresa Phung: "Just 'unwanted contact' period?"

Dr. Mary P. Koss: "Yeah."

Stripes1974 · 2015-08-23T16:53:02+00:00

No.
Fuck no.

If the definition of rape can currently include the idea of a rape victim being a female who engages in unwanted sexual intercourse with a man, then it cannot be "inappropriate to consider as a rape victim a man who engages in unwanted sexual intercourse with a woman".

To do otherwise is a double-standard in the least, and a gross and intolerable victimization and brutally sexual objectification of a crime at its worst.

BruceCampbell123 · 2015-08-23T17:02:15+00:00

Ok Mary, what would you call it then? I'm curious to know what watered down term you'd come up with for male victims of "unwanted sexual intercourse".

I'll bet she had to hold in a giggle as she said that, as if thinking to herself "Male unwanted sexual intercourse, ya right."

Edit: spelling. Damn phone.

McFeely_Smackup · 2015-08-23T17:43:30+00:00

Somehow I suspect her "must have been penetrated to be raped" standard is not going to apply to female victims.

Which had the interesting result that not only can women not rape men, but women can't rape other women, or female children.

Bascome · 2015-08-23T18:18:33+00:00

[permanently deleted]

JealCo2014 · 2015-08-23T21:50:22+00:00

More from Ms. Koss:

"Rape is indeed an extreme form of behavior, but one that exists on a continuum with normal male behavior within the culture."

girlwriteswhat · 2015-08-23T18:12:47+00:00

That's a very partriarcal view of rape: it only matters when it's done to women because it robs their husband of the exclusive use of their reproductive capabilities.

MrDoradus · 2015-08-23T17:27:23+00:00

No one should be too surprised by her stance on this issue. I haven't met many feminists known for their unbiased way of thinking.

I personally don't care if they label female on male rape as sexual assault, or invent a whole new expression. Just as long they don't down play the seriousness of the offence and keep sentences and conviction rates equal to those of male on female rape.

Edit: I also think that a new word to describe the female on male forced sexual intercourse, without penetration from her side, would actually be beneficial. That way we'd have an easy way to recognize this repugnant act and quickly contribute to it a very negative social stigma that it deserves. This way there'd be no "but this isn't rape" discussions started by feminists, because there was "no penetration".

Let's not forget that the archaic definition of rape in US was exclusive to women victims: "The carnal knowledge of a female forcibly and against her will.”

And the current federal definition also excludes woman on man rape without forced penetration from the perpetrators side: “Penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim.”

That really needs to be rectified and a new word to describe the criminal act of female on male rape could be beneficial, especially legally. Though I doubt that's what Mary had in mind.

Edit nr2: /u/garglemesh42 pointed out the biggest fear of not calling it rape, which I also share. It's a very solid argument, but if not calling it something else, we should at least call for a better and universal definition of rape.

supercold1 · 2015-08-23T19:15:59+00:00

Mary P. Koss is responsible for all the major feminist lies that our society is forced to swallow, such as the "1 in 5" lie and the "wage gap" lie. What a cunt.

manicmonkeys · 2015-08-23T18:24:43+00:00

Don't you just love these bold assertions with no explanation as to why they think that should be the case?

Smaskifa · 2015-08-23T20:46:20+00:00

So, if I may paraphrase, she's saying men being drugged and forced to have sex with a woman is not "legitimate rape". I wonder if women could still get pregnant from such intercourse, or if the male body has a way of shutting that down.

Spyder_J · 2015-08-23T18:44:56+00:00

Is there any logic, convoluted or otherwise, to her stance on this? Did she expand at all on why that's "important" after the quoted statement?

SilencingNarrative · 2015-08-23T18:55:28+00:00

a man who engages in unwanted sexual intercourse with a woman

The slipperiness of this wording is truly awe inspiring. Imagine at some point, she is called on the carpet for this. She can then say

I meant a man who regrets sex that he freely engaged in. As for coerced sex, I was simply not aware that that happened enough to worry about.

The fact that her definitions played a role in preventing the word from getting out was an unintended side effect, she would say.

2015-08-23T21:15:29+00:00

So forcing, coercing, a man against his will or without his cooperation to stick his dick in another human being, is not rape?

2015-08-23T21:28:01+00:00

Inb4 "Why do MRA's always attack my feminisms?!"

theskepticalidealist · 2015-08-24T01:07:52+00:00

The crazy irony is she said it shouldn't be considered rape for men because it's only "unwanted sex", yet the very definition she had used of rape for her "1 in 4" study in the 80s WAS "unwanted sex" for women.

blueXcat · 2015-08-23T22:01:02+00:00

She's a disgusting biaisés being

Kirkayak · 2015-08-23T22:42:30+00:00

Evidently, she considers a situation where a gun is pointed to a man's head, along with an order to "arouse yourself and prepare to be mounted", to be something other than rape.

konoplya · 2015-08-24T02:14:19+00:00

I just posted this to facebook with the hashtag #rapeculture. The SJWs in my friends list are getting really flustered trying to justify it.

Drakaris · 2015-08-24T12:01:01+00:00

This is because dumbass feminists have redefined the word. In their empty heads the biggest problem of rape is "penetration" and not consent. And since women have one more hole that can be penetrated - checkmate, men! You can't be "penetrated" by a woman! Aha! In fact if you don't give her consent and she still rapes... excuse me, "forces you" into sex - it's in fact you who raped her because you are the one who penetrated her! Checkmate again! Now go to jail with you dirty penetrating dick! And this idiocy comes from a fucking professor...

Just look at this bullshit piece of shit article in Wikipedia (dafuq is wrong with Wikipedia lately, I suspect that only SJW are updating it... JFC):

Rape is a type of sexual assault usually involving sexual intercourse or other forms of sexual penetration perpetrated against a person without that person's consent.

Who the fuck is the idiot who updated this article to include "sexual penetration". But shit just gets better and better. Here's Merriam-Webster definition:

unlawful sexual activity and usually sexual intercourse carried out forcibly or under threat of injury against the will usually of a female or with a person who is beneath a certain age or incapable of valid consent

You done goofed, Merriam-Webster... At least their verb definition is not that biased:

to force (someone) to have sex with you by using violence or the threat of violence

Yea... good job. But wait. Look at the examples:

He is accused of raping the girl.

She was raped by a fellow student.

"He" is the rapist, "she" is the victim. Splendid. Totally not projecting and pushing an agenda. Fucking idiots.

At least good guy Encyclopædia Britannica is coming to the rescue with something that is neutral:

Rape, act of sexual intercourse with an individual without his or her consent, through force or the threat of force.

And:

The legal definition of rape has changed substantially since the late 20th century. The traditional definition was narrow with respect to both gender and age; rape was an act of sexual intercourse by a man with a woman against her will. As rape is now understood, a rapist or a victim may be an adult of either gender or a child.

2015-08-23T18:17:35+00:00

I honestly don't even understand what was written.

PeteTheFirst · 2015-08-23T19:19:09+00:00

Has anyone asked her to actually justify this appallingly sexist approach? Has she ever supplied any attempt at justifying it?

emperorhirohito · 2015-08-23T19:48:37+00:00

Good way to tell if someone's views on rape are in anyway legitimate? Do they think that they could physically commit rape? If not then their views aren't legitimate.

modernbenoni · 2015-08-23T22:11:00+00:00

I honestly still have absolutely no idea how people justify this line of reasoning. Genuinely, please, if anybody could at all explain to me how a woman having sexual intercourse with an unwilling male is possibly not rape, please go ahead.

koji8123 · 2015-08-23T22:36:18+00:00

Of course not. That would make a womyn a rapist.. And we can't have that.

TheAngryGoat · 2015-08-23T23:14:00+00:00

This must be fake since feminists always make a point of shouting over and over and over that feminism is as much for men as it is for women! I can't believe that would be an complete lie.

Daemonicus · 2015-08-24T00:51:00+00:00

Not exactly surprising, honestly.

They rally to get the FBI to change the definition of rape so it includes more violations (hence raising the stats in women's favour). They even include any anal rape, so that men can be defined under that term as well, but only when raped by other men (which increases the incidents of men raping).

Then, after that... When you criticise feminism by saying they don't fight for equality, they bring up the updated FBI rape definition (always happens).

Thing is... They deliberately leave out envelopment because they want to keep the statistics skewed.

Tmomp · 2015-08-24T01:11:08+00:00

She is a rape apologist according to that quote.

eyecandigit · 2015-08-24T04:13:49+00:00

If they lose control of the narrative, the become irrelevant.

2015-08-24T18:47:09+00:00

It's like there is an alternate reality these people live in.

TerryTerrorist · 2015-08-23T20:35:46+00:00

Fucking human garbage.

Pathosphere · 2015-08-23T18:01:44+00:00

You can look at her face and tell she is an evil piece of shit.

2015-08-23T20:12:54+00:00

Her belief system seems to be based on the patriarchal dominance theory of rape i.e. men rape because of power. It's the same with the social justice inclined who believe sexism doesn't exist toward men.

Now we know why rapists counted in stats are virtually all men.

InvaderDem · 2015-08-23T20:24:48+00:00

Okay, so what is going to be the term of being forced, unwillingly, to penetrate?

ABC_Florida · 2015-08-24T08:04:23+00:00

It is simply a sexist justification of a double standard to privilege one gender over the other.

2015-08-24T12:17:36+00:00

I've said it before and I will say it again; if you cannot be sexist against men, if you cannot rape men, how long till you cannot murder them either?

I know it sounds ridiculous, but actually I have heard the first whispers of this bullshit already, where the murder of a white infant was referred to as reverse colonization. I'm not kidding

recon_johnny · 2015-08-24T21:15:43+00:00

Absolutely disgusting.

HoundDogs · 2015-08-24T22:55:08+00:00

I would question the validity of This woman's entire body of work based on that single quote. Definitions matter. What is this woman calling legitimate rape? One absolutely MUST be taking liberties with the definition of rape to come up with a figure that misleading.

Stink186 · 2015-08-25T04:56:23+00:00

And feminists are always calling MRAs "rape apologists". The feminists have the true rape apologists on their side.

When feminists use the word rape apology, they are merely attempting to hide the fact that MRAs are advocating for upholding due process.

2015-08-23T23:07:30+00:00

So sick of stupid cunts like this

hexagram1993 · 2015-08-23T21:42:34+00:00

Can I get a source on this? The only ones I can find are mens rights websites as opposed to journalists or transcripts so I'm kinda skeptical about whether or not she actually said this.

ThePedanticCynic · 2015-08-24T05:16:05+00:00

Oh. So your standard feminist? Could have just shortened it to that.

I have yet to meet a mentally stable or remotely intelligent feminist.

PM_NUDES_AND_ADVICE · 2015-08-23T23:23:12+00:00

I can't understand the statement the way it's worded.

Unenjoyed · 2015-08-24T00:16:45+00:00

That's some serious illogic.

If I was from the uni where she got her credentials, I'd want to get them back.

fuckin_bubbles · 2015-08-24T02:01:27+00:00

Mary Koss' wiki page doesn't even have the word feminist on it... which i find odd.

thebigsky · 2015-08-24T04:51:36+00:00

Does she offer another term, a comparable one that does not diminish the crime's severity? If she's a law person, her comment might be mixed up in technical legal mumbo jumbo.

jokoon · 2015-08-24T07:27:53+00:00

is she considered a scientist ?

ahwsun · 2015-08-24T08:19:10+00:00

In my country there is no such thing as rape, only sexual assault.

skekze · 2015-08-24T09:18:24+00:00

The smugness of all these worm-filled walking dead. Shadowed photos from another age.

AlexReynard · 2015-08-25T05:03:10+00:00

I would be very happy to see Koss spend the rest of her life in a really shitty jail.

girlwriteswhat · 2015-08-23T20:43:49+00:00

[permanently deleted]

HarryPeckerCrabbe · 2015-08-24T03:58:47+00:00

When are people going to wake up to the fact that progressives are the most hypocritical group of individuals out there?

Want another example? Check into Margaret Sanger's (founder of Planned Parenthood) background and her beliefs on eugenics. Read her autobiography about her presentation she made to the Women's KKK chapter in Silverlake, New York. She was quite popular with the KKK afterwards. But you would never know that by listening to Obama, Clinton, and Planned Parenthood advocates.

MageeDisease · 2015-08-24T16:22:54+00:00

some woman grabbed my boner and stuck it in her after I said no :(

roharareddit · 2015-08-23T22:48:29+00:00

Does she care to explain why she believes it to be inappropriate?

reaxxionrj · 2015-08-24T03:23:29+00:00

What a bitch

OgreMagoo · 2015-08-24T01:43:54+00:00

To be fair, this opinion is older than many of us are. Has she indicated a change of heart any time in the last 22 years?

CRISPR · 2015-08-23T21:33:09+00:00

http://quran.com/12/23-29

And she, in whose house he was, sought to seduce him (to do an evil act), she closed the doors and said: "Come on, O you." He said: "I seek refuge in Allah (or Allah forbid)! Truly, he (your husband) is my master! He made my stay agreeable! (So I will never betray him). Verily, the Zalimun (wrong and evil-doers) will never be successful."

And indeed she did desire him and he would have inclined to her desire, had he not seen the evidence of his Lord. Thus it was, that We might turn away from him evil and illegal sexual intercourse. Surely, he was one of Our chosen, guided slaves.

So they raced with one another to the door, and she tore his shirt from the back. They both found her lord (i.e. her husband) at the door. She said: "What is the recompense (punishment) for him who intended an evil design against your wife, except that he be put in prison or a painful torment?"

He [Yusuf (Joseph)] said: "It was she that sought to seduce me," - and a witness of her household bore witness (saying): "If it be that his shirt is torn from the front, then her tale is true and he is a liar!

"But if it be that his shirt is torn from the back, then she has told a lie and he is speaking the truth!"

So when he (her husband) saw his [(Yusuf's (Joseph)] shirt torn at the back; (her husband) said: "Surely, it is a plot of you women! Certainly mighty is your plot!

"O Yusuf (Joseph)! Turn away from this! (O woman!) Ask forgiveness for your sin. Verily, you were of the sinful."

rsashe1980 · 2015-08-24T06:15:52+00:00

Cunt.

Dorminder · 2015-08-24T02:29:41+00:00

Well if it's not rape, then whatever it is considered to be is just as bad as rape.

Jacobtk · 2015-08-24T02:14:28+00:00

Being penetrated is much worse than getting enveloped. But that doesn't mean they can't be both sub categories under rape.

Akesgeroth · 2015-08-24T00:46:01+00:00

I have a feeling we're missing context here. Certainly no one can make such a fucking stupid statement and be taken seriously by anyone but idiots.

I_will_just_say_it · 2015-08-24T01:59:36+00:00

Just because this woman calls herself a feminist, doesn't make this a feminist view. Based on this quote alone, it sounds like she's a feminist like people from the Westboro Baptist Church are Christians.

Savipalooza · 2015-08-24T13:39:05+00:00

This is a very old quote. There is a strong possibility that she doesn't hold this view anymore.

thisprofilenolongere · 2015-08-23T21:35:55+00:00

how can a man engage in unwanted sex

Rawpick · 2015-08-24T06:11:43+00:00

Lower the glass ceiling, blame this bitch if anyone asks

karlthebaer · 2015-08-24T01:27:30+00:00

This quote is being taken way out of context. The article is called "Detecting the scope of Rape..." It is about defining the term rape. For her, the term rape must include unwanted penetration she has another term for forced sexual intercourse with a woman. Specifically, she was clearing up a definition for researchers and research papers on what they should count as 'rape'.

Title	This is how Mary P. Koss, one of the most prominent feminist researchers in the field of sexual violence in the United States, feels about male rape victims.
Author	Jasperkr672
Upvotes	1593
Comments	239
Date	August 23, 2015 3:59 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/3i395g/this_is_how_mary_p_koss_one_of_the_most_prominent/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/this-is-how-mary-p-koss-one-of-the-most-prominent.972729 https://theredarchive.com/post/972729

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