Double Standards | MensRights

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[+]worshipsatanNOW1 points 8 years ago [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

Why did you choose to risk impregnating a crazy person? Now your daughter has to live her entire life with a crazy mother and it's YOUR fault.

[–]SomeoneStopMePlease 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[+]worshipsatanNOW1 points 8 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

That really isn't "in your defense". You brought a child into this world and gave her a bad mother. That's the worst thing you could have possibly done. Men need to take responsibility.

Would you let a stranger baby sit your child because she is hot and you've "known her for a bit"? No? Then why risk impregnating her?

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A lot of men are specifically told this by legal council.

Absolutely true. I was told right out of the gate that the provincial default was that the primary caregiver was given default custody, and the non-primary caregiver had to fight to retain custody, so that typically meant Mom had custody by default, and Dad saw his custody vanish the day he moved out.

If you had a friendly ex-wife, you signed an agreement to share parenting and that unequal starting point didn't matter. If you had a non-friendly ex-wife, that unequal starting point meant she could negotiate much more firmly, because she had literally nothing to lose, unlike you. Any time she gets a deal she doesn't really like, she can torpedo it, and off to court you go, and she's the default custodian until you get that court date and plead your case.

Lawyers give you the advice they do, in order to avoid you bankrupting yourself banging your head against a wall.

[–]Lallo-the-Long 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

Was it more recent than mine?

My first hearing was in 2001, and it was a pretty different era for men in Family Law at that time. Near the end of my custody issues with my ex, roughly 2007-2008, we ended up in front of a female judge who was hard as nails, and it was like a light switch went off in that case.

She clearly didn't presume anything, and my ex-wife was asked to prove every allegation, justify every decision, explain why she chucked out gifts, kept information from me, etc. Long running issues like the fact my wife refused to make a copy of the separation agreement for me, because mine had been destroyed in a flood, were suddenly solved because she faced contempt of court for not providing it. From that day forward, it was fundamentally different, because that female judge applied the rules fairly and evenly to both parties.

Maybe there was a kind of 'changing of the guard' in justices?

As far as i know he never tried for "primary custody" but pushed really hard for equalized time.

That's probably part of it. I did, too, and in the end the fact that I was only looking for A place at the table, and not THE place at the table was the one thing that flipped my case and opened it up. You can't paint someone as an extremist looking to harm you when he still wants you to have a relationship with those children.

[–]Lallo-the-Long 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, mine too. My son opted to move in with me when he turned 16, and in preparation for his move, I did a once over for my province's legal stance around custody, and the custodial parent/access parent divide I saw at my separation was gone, replaced with far more egalitarian 'guardianship', and all I had to do was prove parentage (the standard was 'were you living with Mom at the time of the birth?') and residence for him, and I was made a guardian, whether my ex-wife wanted that or not.

There truly has been a sea shift in family law in North America, and now it's slowly percolating down the system. I think our boys will have a FAR easier time in Family Law than we likely did.

Edit: you see how I've literally just posted these entries and I'm already downvoted? I think I've got a stalker ...

[–]Imissmyusername 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

It's a gamble. I was told by a lawyer that lawyers and judges could tell when a guy really wanted his kids, that they would be calling daily to try and get things done but that when they didn't bother then they assumed they just didn't want to pay child support. A good balance would be to try your damndest without breaking yourself. There is legal financial aid in some big cities and you can find pro bono from lawyers fresh out of law school. If you can't find a lawyer then it would be better to show you at least tried, did your research, dressed appropriately (I wish that didn't have to be said), and took the effort to get things done as quickly as possible. I've seen some outright stall a court date however they can so they could go another 6 months without paying child support. It might not get anything for you but there's a chance that it could if you get a reasonable judge. Yeah they can besmirch you but also a chance that a judge won't fall for it without evidence.

I know someone right now who is paying child support when he's not been ordered to yet, kid isn't even legally claimed as his yet, and literally pays the mom to be able to keep his daughter for the weekend. He straight up fights to see her and that will look good on him since he's been keeping record of it all. Unfortunately he also thinks he has no chance and has been dragging his feet on the actual custody stuff. I was trying to help him get that in order but it eventually felt like trying to get a cat in a bathtub so I gave up. He's so demotivated about it that he thinks he's better off begging and paying to see his daughter than getting things set in stone. He's not, maybe he would be if he had something to hide, but right now he's only getting 2 weekends a month with her and paying more than he should, can't get much worse.

Some knowledge circulating about how this shit works would be good too. I didn't know until recently that in many states, the dad doesn't automatically have rights of the kid, even if their name is on the birth certificate, unless they were married or legally legitimized the kid through the courthouse. Some states have statutes of limitations on that. Any guy that isn't married and for sure wants rights to his kids needs to get that shit done immediately but no one I mentioned it to knew about it and I know a lot of dads who aren't married.

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Not the situation in the cases I had exposure to. Kids lived with the dads full time, the dads went back to court, the court wouldn't budge. No relief, and a fair bit of money wasted on lawyers.

Family courts vary by state and county. Some are better or worse than others.

You raise a good point about the private agreement, though. I had to pay my ex spousal support for 6 months after she was arrested for making kiddie porn with one of our kids. I went to court, the court said there was nothing they could do. Swell, huh?

Do you think the average divorce agreement has a "spousal support should stop if you rape my child" clause? Do you think the court should have some ability to step into cases like this?

That period of time showed me a lot about what the court wants from men. I went from alternate weekend dad to full time, I was already broke from paying support. I needed furniture and clothes, and school supplies, and...

Who showed up? Lines of lawyers with their goddamn hands out. Fuck you, pay me, was their refrain. The court wouldn't do anything if I wasn't throwing money at it.

[–]Kzero01 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[+]babalu321 points 8 years ago* [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link

Faith in humanity restored

But your (ex) wife must be a total fuckup for this to happen

[–]SomeoneStopMePlease 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[+]babalu321 points 8 years ago* [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

Believe me, it could have been worse

Most of the child homicides are perpetrated by the mother

[–]SomeoneStopMePlease 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]human_not_robot 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Obviously while they're still children you definitely don't want to burden them with that. But don't completely write off the idea of talking to them about it later in life when they're adults and more able to understand.

My dad raised me alone after my mother split in the middle of the night when I was 4 years old. Most of my life I had no idea what actually happened and, like you, my old man never talked to me about it. Just recently when he was visiting my city, we sat down for a meal and he told me the story. Without giving you the gory details, it was pretty bad and eventually her behaviour became intolerable to the point that he told her to get out and never come back. Hearing about what he had to deal with in the courts, how hard he had to fight and everything he went through to make sure that I still had a relationship with her despite all this (which, in spite of his efforts, never really happened because, as I discovered for myself, she was very unreliable, had a different boyfriend from month to month, drug abuse and eventually outright refused to see or talk to me at all which is still the case to this day) really made me appreciate him so much more as a father and a man. It helped me understand why my childhood was the way it was, why he was the way he was and made it easier to forgive and reconcile whatever shortcomings he might have had as a single parent.

[+]Artiquecircle1 points 8 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

Teach us oh great one (bowing down)!!

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[+]DrScott881 points 8 years ago* [recovered] (15 children) | Copy Link

Man have i got stories!

I paid my child support on time all the time!

One day while visiting my child on the other side of the country, I decided to pay my child support at the office.

I walk in and tell the lady I want to make a payment.

She says rudely “we don’t accept payment here”

Wow, okay so what do you do at the child support office?

They avoided the question and ran me in circles.

Before I left I asked what would happen if I missed a payment since they don’t accept them.

I was told if i missed 3 they’ll put me in jail!

[–]Imawildedible 344 points345 points346 points 8 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

I had to pay child support for the first 12 years of my son’s life. Same thing where I tried to just run down and pay at the office. I was treated like I was trying to rob the place. Every time I was in there I was treated like a criminal. I’m august I was given nearly 80% placement and child support was to be switched and I was to receive. The courts messed up the paperwork and because nothing was filed correctly, I had to go in recently to answer why I haven’t been paying. When I explained the issue, to the judge that gave the order, I was told that none of it mattered and that it was my job to make sure all paperwork was done correctly and that I was responsible for paying support until a new order was in place. They found me in contempt, but put a stay on my jail time until I can appear again with my lawyer. They said if the paperwork is filed and/or I pay what is remaining they’ll cancel my contempt. So she should have been paying me support since September 1st. Instead she won’t have to start paying me until our court hearing, which I was told will be more than likely 6 months out from now and I may have to pay her for that time or face going to jail. Either way I’m now forced to pay a lawyer to defend me against a contempt charge because of the courts screw up, while not receiving the few grand she should be paying me. The system is so biased against men it’s not even funny.

[+]DrScott881 points 8 years ago* [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link

I’d say welcome to the system but looks like you’ve already been welcomed. It’s a shite deal. If you need someone to talk to shoot me a message. I now have full custody and no more child support payments so I’ve been around that block.

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[–]SoDamnToxic 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

Yea, the difference is when those choices are made.

Double standards will always exist when it comes to the literal most unique part that differentiates males and females. It's almost like we have completely different reproduction systems thus different rules apply.

You make you're choice when you decide to have unprotected sex, you don't have the right to make that choice after you fucked up.

She makes her choice much later because well... she's the receptacle and it's her body.

There are birth control options for both parties and it just so happens they take place at different stages in life because the reproduction systems are different, nothing we can do about that.

It's basic human nature for men to want to reproduce more often than women, but the times we live in now are different and you have to be more cautious as a man because that's just how it works for our reproduction organs. You are more than welcome to change that and get a vasectomy, but I don't think you want to do that, so just be mindful.

You make your choice when you let your seed go into someone you don't want it to. You let that happen you no longer have a choice. Women can make their choice after simply because that's how their organs work. Nothing we can do about the literal biological differences. This is similar to when SJWs complain about woman not being in male sports or transgender males not being allowed in womens sports. It's biology, biology isn't sexist, it is what it is.

The only thing I will argue for is that males (who are married or in committed relationships) should have a say in the abortion of a baby, even if a small one (even this is hard to argue).

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]SoDamnToxic -5 points-4 points-3 points 8 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

if pregnancy occurs and the man does not want to keep and the woman does, then she should accept full responsibility.

Sounds like the literal worst idea ever.

He fucked up, he has to face the consequences of his actions. You can't just do what you want and then when life hits you in the fucking face go "nah". The fact that you even think that's a good idea is astonishing.

The whole argument of women have the option of abortion so men should be able to completely abandon their child is the stupidest false equivalency ever. They have the option of abortion because that's just how their fucking reproduction system works, we don't because that's now how our system works.

It's biology get over it. Stop fucking strange women without protection and you won't run into that problem. Women have more free will with abortion because it's biology. It's like men being born naturally stronger, it's just biology. You don't try to match biology, you just work with what you got.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]SoDamnToxic -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

Yea, they includes he and she. So yes, he fucked up, so did she. They aren't mutually exclusive.

But the thing is, women's biological setup allows them an escape through abortion, the man's doesn't. Are you really going to argue against biology? It is what it is.

Similar to how males have an advantage biologically through their strength, if a woman and a man choose to compete in a sport, that woman should know shes at a huge fucking disadvantage and has to face the consequences because of biology.

Men should know, they don't have the option of abortion so maybe be more fucking careful. Double standards exist because one person has a penis and one has a vagina. Those are 2 different things, 2 different standards, males and females aren't equal things when it comes to child baring or anatomy, that should be obvious if you took a biology class in Highschool.

I'm prejudice for knowing basic human anatomy? Lol, ok.

[–]Imissmyusername 7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Jex117 36 points37 points38 points 8 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Jex117 31 points32 points33 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

This whole "keep it in your pants" argument died in the '60s. Anyone who tells women they can't have abortions because they should just "keep it in their pants" is utterly crucified by the Left - yet this argument is still routinely used against men. Why are women only granted this legal right? Why is it not extended to men?

MEN CAN WEAR CONDOMS

"Sperm jacking" is a thing. A few years ago there was a scandal where a famous basketball player caught his girlfriend squeezing the semen out of his used condom in the bathroom. It doesn't matter how she got your sperm - you're still the father.

MEN CAN ASK A WOMAN IF SHES PRO CHOICE BEFORE HE STICKS HIS DICK IN HER.

Women have no legal obligation to be truthful about their intentions - women can knowingly forgo birthcontrol while claiming to be covered. Women can poke holes in condoms. There's no repercussions against a woman for tampering with her own birth control.

Men on the other hand can go to prison for 'tampering with birthcontrol' - something as simple as a broken condom.

MEN CAN AND DO WALK AWAY FROM PARENTHOOD ALL THE FUCKING TIME.

But no option to walk away from custodial dues. That's the problem. Women can use birth control / abortion / adoption / abandonment, whereas men have no 'out.' You either pay up or you go to prison.

UNTIL SOMEONE TRIES TO FORCE YOU TO SHIT OUT A WATERMELON YOU DONT WANT YOU DONT GET AN OPINION ON A WOMANS RIGHT TO CHOOSE.

Nobody is making any impositions on a woman's right to choose; ironically it's you who's making impositions on a man's right to choose.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/09/02/statutory-rape-victim-child-support/14953965/

This is what men and boys are up against. You can literally be raped by a woman, yet still end up forced to pay her custody. This happens to underage boys too. Being a rape victim doesn't preclude males from custody obligations - again, it doesn't matter how she got your sperm, you're the father regardless.

And what do we get when we talk about it? Angry harpies, spouting off all-caps temper tantrums at the mere concept of men wanting the same 'right to choose' that women have.

[–]Unused_UserID 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]kegbueno -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Dude, women can certainly manipulate, lie, take advantage and rape. No debate there. But in the end, the person who owns the body that is going to give birth to the baby has the choice in the end, because it is their body.

Instead of being mad that someone can have say in what happens to their body, and worrying about someone lying and deceiving you try having open honest conversations with your sexual partners.

I'm not telling you to "keep it in your pants" and never have sex, I'm telling you to be particular, and maybe try talking to your partner about an unplanned pregnancy. We live in a society that treats unplanned pregnancy like it's only a woman's problem. Yes a person can lie. You can use that argument anywhere in any debate. It doesn't mean you shouldn't take some social responsibility and try to get your feeling out there. If you told a woman "look I'm definitely not looking for any unplanned pregnancy are you on birth control? I'm going to use a condom".

Solution to sperm jacking ---> throw your condom away?? Flush it? Give it the ole.rinse and toss? Is that gross? Yes, but you're really concerned a woman is going to trap you with a baby.

It's awful that being raped doesn't stop you from dealing with custody issues. Let's do some lobbying to change that. Seriously, bring that up to your starlte and local representatives. Do some research, get case numbers and hard facts and submit that.

Rape is horrible and unacceptable and no one should have to endure that nor be saddled with a child or child support payments as a result.

I hope you're seriously excited about male birth control, it's going to do wonders to address literally all of your concerns here (except male rape, which there is no debate it is just as wrong and terrible and real as female rape)

I just can't believe there's a "men's rights" post that is just mostly complaint after complaint about women forcing them to deal with or be responsible for a child they don't want, when right now women are in a frenzy trying to keep abortion legal. If you really are worried about these things support male birth control, support planned Parenthood. Because if it wasn't so difficult and stigmatised to end an unplanned or unwanted pregnancy there would definitely be less (not none, less) "forced" child support.

[–]Jex117 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Dude, women can certainly manipulate, lie, take advantage and rape. No debate there.

Yet you pretend that men have the option of simply asking a woman if she's taking birth control, like it's in any way a legitimate protection. You seem acutely aware that it doesn't protect men from anything.

But in the end, the person who owns the body that is going to give birth to the baby has the choice in the end, because it is their body.

Again, nobody here is making any impositions on a woman's 'right to choose' - ironically it's you who's making impositions on a man's 'right to choose.' Her body her choice? Fine. Then it should be his body his choice too.

Instead of being mad that someone can have say in what happens to their body,

I'm not mad that women get to choose what happens to their body - I'm mad that women get to choose what happens to my body.

His body, his choice.

and worrying about someone lying and deceiving you try having open honest conversations with your sexual partners.

There you go again, pretending like this is somehow a legitimate protection; it's not.

I'm not telling you to "keep it in your pants" and never have sex, I'm telling you to be particular, and maybe try talking to your partner about an unplanned pregnancy.

"MEN CAN WEAR CONDOMS." You were saying?

Yes a person can lie. You can use that argument anywhere in any debate.

That's quite the cop-out. Amazing how quickly and conveniently you brush aside such an enormous problem men face without the slightest iota of sympathy.

It doesn't mean you shouldn't take some social responsibility and try to get your feeling out there. If you told a woman "look I'm definitely not looking for any unplanned pregnancy are you on birth control? I'm going to use a condom".

She can literally squeeze his semen out of a condom and he's still liable for child support. Do you really not see this as being a problem?

Rape is horrible and unacceptable and no one should have to endure that nor be saddled with a child or child support payments as a result.

THEN WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU ARGUING AGAINST A MAN'S RIGHT TO CHOOSE?!?

I hope you're seriously excited about male birth control, it's going to do wonders to address literally all of your concerns here (except male rape, which there is no debate it is just as wrong and terrible and real as female rape)

Depends if the feminist smear campaigns keep development shutdown or not.

I just can't believe there's a "men's rights" post that is just mostly complaint after complaint about women forcing them to deal with or be responsible for a child they don't want, when right now women are in a frenzy trying to keep abortion legal.

What the actual fuck.

You're arguing against a man's right to choose while arguing in defense of a woman's right to choose. You seem concerned and frustrated that women in the U.S might lose their right to choose - yet in the exact same breath you scoff at the mere idea of men demanding equal rigts.

If you really are worried about these things support male birth control, support planned Parenthood.

Or maybe we could get the same legal protections that women get? Or is that too insulting for you to consider?

Because if it wasn't so difficult and stigmatised to end an unplanned or unwanted pregnancy there would definitely be less (not none, less) "forced" child support.

100% bullshit. You literally just made that up on the spot.

You know what else would end forced child support? Giving men equal rights to women.

[–]Unused_UserID 10 points11 points12 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Jex117 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

but you have to be very vigilant when introducing your semen into a receptacle designed for reproduction.

You don't even have to have met the woman to end up paying child support. You don't even have to be the biological father.

If the mother doesn't know who the biological father is, she can simply pen in a name - and if your name is on the birth certificate, you're liable for child support. Men can appeal this in family courts, and request a DNA test be performed, but the mother can simply have the request denied.

There's also adoptive custody situations - I remember one example from last year, a man ended up paying child support to the neighbor up the hall from his apartment, because he babysay her daughter 3 times - after the daughter called him "Daddy" once, he got adoptive custody. Doesn't matter if the mother coached her or not. Doesn't matter that he's not the biological father.

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So you mean with no consequences? He just declares himself out and walks away? Then she has the choice to have a child by herself or get an abortion? It's pretty harsh, and religious groups are going to hate it, of course because it forces women who don't believe in abortion to raise children by themselves.

I think I would advocate for a more proactive approach, where people declare their intentions beforehand. Before you all have sex, both parties declare their preference:

No child under any circumstances.
If it happens.
Hoping to get pregnant.

etc.

Then if one is hoping to get pregnant, then s/he can't be upset when the other person disagrees because they declared "not under any circumstances.

I think the only unbalanced part of any of this is that women have to be the ones who get the abortion, which is unavoidable, of course, but we can be mindful of it.

[–]Recklesskidjo3 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I'll even balance the scale by requiring the males in the situation to provide half the cost of the abortion.

He just declares himself out and walks away? Then she has the choice to have a child by herself or get an abortion? It's pretty harsh, and religious groups are going to hate it, of course because it forces women who don't believe in abortion to raise children by themselves.

Hmm don't we have a system now where women can just decide that they don't want the child and abort it? Or it the other way around where she can decide she wants the child regardless if the dad wants to be a father or not. Also, women have the ability to not tell the father they are pregnant and have the child, just to give it up for adoption. The current way the system is setup is unjust towards men and if we are to have an honest conversation about reproductive right then we need to include men in that discussion.

[–]sometimesynot 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]1493271 points 8 years ago* [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

People can be proactive and be upfront about all they they want until the one with control over reproduction just chooses, for the couple. I'm pretty sure both genders do it to each other one way or another, but women have protection against that, and men do not.

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I am pro choice but this has nothing to do with abortion. It has to do with alimony. And that goes for both women and men so that argument is used against women as well. If they aren’t the primary care taker, they’ll have to pay alimony. Don’t get your panties in a bunch.

Unfortunately women still get pregnant and men can’t. So there’s an imbalance and only women can decide whether or not to abort. Do you agree?

If so, then having sex always causes risk to a baby, for men as well as women (even though women can opt out while being pregnant, they of course cannot be forced to do so).

So when the baby’s born, he has to be taken care of by both parents. After birth, the parents cannot opt out without consent of the other (for adoption both parties need to be on board).

So bottom line is that you can’t force women to abort and can’t let a baby fend for itself after it’s born. It’s unimaginable to me that this seems so foreign to you.

[–]RacelessSexlessName 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[+]-Oizys1 points 8 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

Well apparently you value the well being of the father more (no contribution), and I value the well being of the child more (both parents have to contribute).

[–]RacelessSexlessName 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Jex117 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Can't carry and give birth to a baby? Then no you don't have the choice.

Why? It's her choice to carry the baby to term - it should be my choice to walk away. If I can abandon parental rights then I should be able to abandon parental obligations.

How about talking to the woman before you have sex and if she is pro-choice and you have a problem with that then DONT HAVE SEX!

Right, "just keep it in your pants boys." Good job bringing back that oldschool '60s sexism.

Otherwise it isn't your body to push a baby out of.

Right. Her body her choice. I don't have any right to tell her she has to carry it to term or to tell her she has to get an abortion - that's entirely her choice. But it's also entirely her choice as to whether or not I have custodial obligations; why? Why don't men get the same right to choose their own destiny? To make their own choices in life?

Sexually active women who don't want children should be up front, honest, and utilizing some form of birth control.

Right, because women never lie, women never take advantage of a man for personal gain, and women never seek vindication. Every woman on Earth is just a perfectly angelic model citizen. /s

Again though, I have to ask, what's your stance on male rape victims being forced into custodial situations? Underage boys groomed into sexually predacious relationships by female pedophiles? Unconscious blackout drunk men having their erections used in their sleep?

Even rape victims have to pay custody. Imagine that. Imagine being raped, having your semen conceived, taken to term, being sued by your rapist, having your parental rights stripped, having visitation revoked, and being forced to make custody payments to your rapist or get sent to prison by your rapist.

You haven't responded to this last bit in any of your replies. Again, I'm willing to bet you don't even have the courage to type out a simple response to this point. I doubt you'll even fully think about the heinous injustice of it all, specifically because it's happening to males.

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Obligatory r/MGTOW

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Are you guys seriously this fucking retarded? Holy shit.

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[–]LDinthehouse 12 points13 points14 points 8 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Not op but I think it’s unfortunate that the way it worked out, women alone have to carry the baby to term because it clearly creates an imbalance that not easily fixed.

I don’t think men should have a 50% say over whether the child is brought to term or not and I do think that we should be held partly responsible if it is and therefore help to pay for its upbringing.

The system clearly doesn’t 100% work the way it is because some women are left without enough to properly support their families and some men are being taking for mugs but don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.

More needs to be done educating children about the seriousness of bringing a child into the world and how easily it can happen if you don’t protect yourself properly.

Edit: comment guy two up said something along the lines of “you all can’t be serious?” Or something like that

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It's an evolutionary trait. Tribes that did not prioritize survival of their women did not survive.

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Lol, now show us on the doll where you were rejected by a woman.

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So you're saying that grouping them all together and assuming the loudest speaker is speaking for all of them is a helpful solution?

That's exactly the method feminists use to define men, if it's good for the gander, it's good for the goose.

What exactly is your goal?

Point out where double standards exist.

What do you want society to do?

Recognize it holds many double standards against men.

If you want truly equal rights then you have to see everyone's point of view and engage in fair debate, not start levelling stupid accusations at 'all women'

So I'm supposed to "rise above it", but it's cool when the other side does it?

Also, "levelling stupid accusations at 'all women'"... I didn't say women, did I? What did I say instead, and why do you think you changed it and tried to attribute it to me?

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what the fuck does that have anything to do with anything??? not in charge...lol....

You're not the director of the Feminist Majority Foundation and editor of Ms. Magazine, Katherine Spillar, who said of domestic violence: "Well, that's just a clean-up word for wife-beating," and went on to add that regarding male victims of dating violence, "we know it's not girls beating up boys, it's boys beating up girls."

You're not Jan Reimer, former mayor of Edmonton and long-time head of Alberta's Network of Women's Shelters, who just a few years ago refused to appear on a TV program discussing male victims of domestic violence, because for her to even show up and discuss it would lend legitimacy to the idea that they exist.

You're not Mary P Koss, who describes male victims of female rapists in her academic papers as being not rape victims because they were "ambivalent about their sexual desires" (if you don't know what that means, it's that they actually wanted it), and then went on to define them out of the definition of rape in the CDC's research because it's inappropriate to consider what happened to them rape.

You're not the National Organization for Women, and its associated legal foundations, who lobbied to replace the gender neutral federal Family Violence Prevention and Services Act of 1984 with the obscenely gendered Violence Against Women Act of 1994. The passing of that law cut male victims out of support services and legal assistance in more than 60 passages, just because they were male.

You're not the Florida chapter of the NOW, who successfully lobbied to have Governor Rick Scott veto not one, but two alimony reform bills in the last ten years, bills that had passed both houses with overwhelming bipartisan support, and were supported by more than 70% of the electorate.

You're not the feminist group in Maryland who convinced every female member of the House on both sides of the aisle to walk off the floor when a shared parenting bill came up for a vote, meaning the quorum could not be met and the bill died then and there.

You're not the feminists in Canada agitating to remove sexual assault from the normal criminal courts, into quasi-criminal courts of equity where the burden of proof would be lowered, the defendant could be compelled to testify, discovery would go both ways, and defendants would not be entitled to a public defender.

You're not Professor Elizabeth Sheehy, who wrote a book advocating that women not only have the right to murder their husbands without fear of prosecution if they make a claim of abuse, but that they have the moral responsibility to murder their husbands.

You're not the feminist legal scholars and advocates who successfully changed rape laws such that a woman's history of making multiple false allegations of rape can be excluded from evidence at trial because it's "part of her sexual history."

You're not the feminists who splattered the media with the false claim that putting your penis in a passed-out woman's mouth is "not a crime" in Oklahoma, because the prosecutor was incompetent and charged the defendant under an inappropriate statute (forcible sodomy) and the higher court refused to expand the definition of that statute beyond its intended scope when there was already a perfectly good one (sexual battery) already there. You're not the idiot feminists lying to the public and potentially putting women in Oklahoma at risk by telling potential offenders there's a "legal" way to rape them.

-karen straughan

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[+]Phr0ztByte1 points 8 years ago* [recovered] (11 children) | Copy Link

Almost all men have little to no power. Yet the western media treats us all like we do.

[–]AustinAuranymph 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[+]Phr0ztByte1 points 8 years ago* [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link

That is true, but does it matter to you and me? We hold no power. Are the people in power bickering among themselves about which genders control what, or is that an exercise for those who holds no power at all.

If almost no people holds power, but we pretend half the population does, and we are willing to skew the rules to accommodate for those we perceive to have less. Then are we not just hurting half the population because of rare instances?

I am putting aside that males are outliers in both ends of the spectrum. Woman rarely falls to the bottom of society, men does, in much much greater numbers than they rise to the top.

[–]AustinAuranymph -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[+]Phr0ztByte1 points 8 years ago* [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link

Am I? I meant to point out, that while men holds positions of power, a vast majority is on the other end, at the bottom of society.

How does that go against anything?

[–]AustinAuranymph -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]tmone 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]AustinAuranymph 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]tmone 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]AustinAuranymph -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]bufedad 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]LeSpeedBump 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[+]Trev_Holland1 points 8 years ago* [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm not sure if you've been informed, but you don't have to stay a virgin to not have kids. You just have to know more about who you're getting in bed with than the bar you picked him/her up at.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]nhdw 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Seems-Reasonable 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Seems-Reasonable 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]yaavsp 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[+]SoDamnToxic -18 points-17 points-16 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[+]UrMomWasABichToo1 points 8 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

So would you agree some women shouldn't have jobs a man is more biologically equiped to do?

[–]yaavsp -4 points-3 points-2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]nickevns1 points 8 years ago* [recovered] (18 children) | Copy Link

This is very true but let’s talk about how women can get abortions if they don’t t want the baby but the father does. Makes me sick feminists pushing the my body my choice bullshit, if the female is not in danger and the male wants the baby HE SHOULD HAVE A CHOICE

[–]Dissentient -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[+]nickevns1 points 8 years ago [recovered] (12 children) | Copy Link

And killing a human baby is 100% immoral, and I can’t imagine why you can’t see that.

[–]Dissentient -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[+]nickevns1 points 8 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

Wish your parents had that mindset

[–]Dissentient 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]nickevns1 points 8 years ago [recovered] (8 children) | Copy Link

XD im kidding

[–]Dissentient 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[+]nickevns1 points 8 years ago [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link

It is true that forcing birth may be extreme but atleast opening a discussion over the baby would surely be helpful. A woman acknowledges that pregnancy can occur from sexual intercourse just as we acknowledge we can get diseases and so forth, hopefully with a mature woman if an accidental pregnancy occurs during a relationship the couple can come to an agreement, cus i find it kinda shitty how a woman can take away something so life changing from a man. Im a male so i don’t personally know how painful or stressful childbirth can be but i mean like 20 hours of pain to bring a wanted person into this world should surely happen. Think of the joy a father would have to raise and love his child and the potential love and happiness the child could bring into this world ❤️

[–]Dissentient 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[+]nickevns1 points 8 years ago [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link

Then how is that not a double standard? If your only response is; then the man can fuck off and have a baby with someone who wants one, then why should a man be locked behind payments and suppourt for 18 years if HE doesn’t want the baby. If our case scenario is an accidental pregnancy then one gender gets to do whatever they want and the other is pay 60% of your wages a week or go to jail 🤔 i don’t see how this is equality. Before u sprout ur shit ooooo think of the womans term and how it affects them, think about the male and how it affects him limited custody if any at all, potential jail time for missing or skipping or coming in short of money, courts misplacing documentation or getting it wrong, lawyer fees, can’t travel, etc

[–]Dissentient 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[+]Calistilaigh -7 points-6 points-5 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]LivingCry 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[+]holader1 points 8 years ago [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

One is alive, one is not.

[+]Unused_UserID1 points 8 years ago* [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

Not in the case of adoption or abandon.

[–]holader 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[+]s460 -9 points-8 points-7 points 8 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

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[–]s460 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

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[–]s460 -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

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[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[+]Nightmare1591 points 8 years ago [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

We don't want child murder banned?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Incruentus 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Incruentus -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Incruentus 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm absolutely of the opinion that men should be able to give up the child to the state in the same manner that women are, and as far as I'm aware that's the law.

It isn't. In effect it goes to whoever has primary custody which is going to be her, especially in contested cases.

It's gender neutral in the way settling any dispute between a man and a woman with an arm wrestling competition would be gender neutral.

So you and that other guy are failing to understand what I mean by "abandonment," despite me clearly stating what that is a few comments ago. Women are not allowed to leave a child in a sewer drain. Men are not allowed to leave a child in a sewer drain. Understand?

Your definition being specific to sewer drains applied only to you. You aren't entitled to invent new definitions on a whim.

[–]rawbface 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]foxleader81 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]rawbface 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]BurritoSchits1 points 8 years ago [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

This is stupid. No one on any political spectrum I know supports abandoning children.

[–]travlisjack 32 points33 points34 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Jex117 16 points17 points18 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]i_dont_eat_peas -5 points-4 points-3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]bonenecklace 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]foxleader81 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]bonenecklace 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]Laesio -18 points-17 points-16 points 8 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]tmone 20 points21 points22 points 8 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link

Fathers have the same right to put a child up for adoption as mothers.

nice try, troll.

fathers have ZERO parental rights. zero. mothers give up their children for adoption all the time without the fathers consent or even knowing about it. fathers cannot do the same.

hen you're simply unaware of the feminist campaigns to put our current safe haven laws into place.

our courts straight up refuse to prosecute women who've hurt / killed their children by abandoning them. They can literally let their children freeze to death outside without repercussions.

fathers have absolutely no parental rights whatsoever. THAT is what this post is about. go ahead and argue that with me. go ahead and tell me it isnt fucked up when a father comes home to find out his children have been put up for adoption and there isnt a damned thing he could do about getting them back.

what a fuckn joke you are. pretty pretty please argue that men have the same parental rights as mothers. oh fucking pretty please try that bullshit.

[+]Twerklez0 points 8 years ago [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link

fathers have ZERO parental rights. zero. mothers give up their children for adoption all the time without the fathers consent or even knowing about it. fathers cannot do the same.

...is that the only paternity "right" in your view? Are you a retard, or just an ADD addled white male perma-victim?

go ahead and tell me it isnt fucked up when a father comes home to find out his children have been put up for adoption and there isnt a damned thing he could do about getting them back.

Seriously are you a fucking moron? A spouse cannot put a child up for adoption without the other spouse's consent.

please argue that men have the same parental rights as mothers

Sure. It's easy because they do.

Stop acting like a victim

[+]centaurboots1 points 8 years ago [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link

PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS. Please take pity on them, they only do this because they are in a place in their life where getting a rise out of making people angry is the only joy the know or legitimately they have no life and this is the way they interact socially. Either way they deserve our pity. Look at the post history and see it's simple ignorant anti-social behavior. You can't change thier opinion because they don't have one, only whatever angers you and everyone knows it. Please, do not feed the trolls.

[–]tmone 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]nforne 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]AustinAuranymph -4 points-3 points-2 points 8 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]Rolten 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

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[–]AustinAuranymph -4 points-3 points-2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Rolten 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]mwobuddy 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]AustinAuranymph 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]Brendyrose -6 points-5 points-4 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Dwarf90 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[+]Yellowhorseofdestiny -27 points-26 points-25 points 8 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]McFeely_Smackup 29 points30 points31 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 16 points17 points18 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]StopTop 18 points19 points20 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Jex117 8 points9 points10 points 8 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Want no kids = war a condom

First off "sperm jacking" is a thing. A few years ago there was a big MBA player who caught a woman squeezing his semen out of a condom in the bathroom, trying to impregnate herself to take advantage of him. Regardless of how she got your sperm, you're still the father. There's no legal protection against sperm jacking.

Secondly men and boys can get raped. There are many grown men who've been taken advantage of when they're too drunk to talk / blacked out - it doesn't take much to get a man erect, regardless of whether he's 'into it' and regardless of whether he's conscious. Furthermore, it's not hard for women to groom young boys into sexually predacious relationships. Again, it doesn't matter how she got your sperm - you're still the father. There's examples of underage boys making custody payments to their rapists. Being a rape victim doesn't preclude you from custody payments.

Thirdly you don't even have to be the biological father to be forced into custody courts. If the mother doesn't know who the father is upon birth, she can simply pen in a name - if your name shows up on the birth certificate, you're the father. Men can appeal this by requesting a DNA test in family courts, but the mother can simply have the request denied.

Lastly there's adoptive custody situations. One such example involved a man who merely babysat for a woman in the next apartment down the hall - after her daughter called him "Daddy" he legally became her adoptive father.

[–]LeSpiceWeasel 8 points9 points10 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]tmone 11 points12 points13 points 8 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Jarizle88 -3 points-2 points-1 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]XQuSe -15 points-14 points-13 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]AgincourtSalute 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Clearly that's equality to you, because in your mind:

 Feminism = Man Hate Therefore Men's Rights = Woman Hate

You will see a plethora of hatred for men in any number of subreddits that claim to embody equality, and if you frequent those sites then you will see hatred for 'the other' in any post you read. If you dismiss any issue raised as 'WomensHate' then you will never understand the issue.

[–]XQuSe -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Jarizle88 -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]btcftw1 -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]mrchooch -3 points-2 points-1 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Chef_Lebowski -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

To be fair, this should only apply if you didn't wanna have a child and you were tricked into it. However, if you did want to have a child, then that really is your responsibility and it's on both of you for fucking it up.

Let me explain. My mom divorced my dad and I couldn't be more thankful and happier. The guy is piece of shit. He didn't give two fucks about me and constantly cheated on my mom and was a lazy fuck while she was busting her ass to raise me and he was partying every weekend. Fuck him.

And he paid the bare minimum for child support - $40 every month until he eventually stopped. He's also an alcoholic and it was not fun growing up throughout high school with him. I always had to see him on the weekend and I dreaded it each time because he was a fucking asshole, because of his drinking. There were times I wish he was dead.

So don't feel too bad for every single dad on the planet. They're not all that great. And that applies for moms too. My mom is fantastic. Love her to death. My dad is a deadbeat. Hate him to death. And I fully support pro-choice. I don't want kids because I fear I'll end up being just like my dad even though I don't drink. Plus there's also being forced to have a kid by her poking a condom or blackmail. That's why I'm considering a vasectomy to avoid all that shit and cover my ass.

I guess this meme just comes off a little black and white, without considering a grey area or some middle ground, but I understand your frustration in posting it at the same time.

[+]yellowbrickroad01 -9 points-8 points-7 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]KingRobotPrince 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

first thing i see is this post. I’m out.

1, Why would you quit on the first post if you wanted to get a balance representation of different opinions? The next post might open your eyes to something you never knew existed.

I think you are lying.

2, How is the choice being missed? Maybe if you stop viewing things solely from the female perspective, you will see that this is complaining about the fact that men have zero choice when it comes to whether a woman keeps a baby, and if they want to opt out they are vilified.

Can you not manage to hold to points of view in your head at the same time? Can you not see that while it is right that women have a choice over what happens with their bodies, there is a fundamental unfairness that regardless of whether a man wants to keep the baby or not have a baby, he has no choice himself?

[–]yellowbrickroad01 -5 points-4 points-3 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]KingRobotPrince 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]yellowbrickroad01 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]Proteus_Marius -23 points-22 points-21 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Thefriendlypandabear 7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Proteus_Marius -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]nicknicknick5 -23 points-22 points-21 points 8 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

[+]Pithong -15 points-14 points-13 points 8 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

This subreddit is centered around women and feminists. The sub is about women and feminists, it is NOT about men and men's rights. When less than 5% of all posts are about activism or pro-men then it's simply not a MRA sub, it's an anti-feminist/anti-women sub. And it's majority memes that bash women and offer zero support for men and zero activism for men and zero positive messages for or about men, it's just a bunch of whiny, impotent men (impotent as in their ability to help their situation is broken or non-existent). All they know how to do is be angry and blame everyone else without lifting a finger to do anything, such as opening men's shelters, donating to lobbyists that will help change custody laws, running for state and federal legislatures to affect change, creating boys club to help them grow into productive, happy men, to be activists instead of anti-women internet meme-sharers.

[–]tmone 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]_IA_ 8 points9 points10 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]KingRobotPrince 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]BurritoSchits1 points 8 years ago [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link

I stand by what I said. This sub is plagued by the extreme right wing it seems. Free yourselves of them. Think for yourselves.

[–]Dwarf90 10 points11 points12 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points10 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Dissentient -3 points-2 points-1 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]KingRobotPrince 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[+][deleted] -8 points-7 points-6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You get in a very grey area with that though. What if they weren’t married and the guy was on board in the beginning of the pregnancy and decided after the baby was born that he doesn’t want to be in the kids life? Or they break up? That is an extremely likely case. WAY more likely than your condom breaking and the girl getting pregnant and deciding to keep the kid. Then you get into weird questions like, how early on is early on? Is it a time after the man finds out? After the kid is born?

There are reasons why these laws exist. And all of you guys are taking horror stories and dudes just being dumb as reasons why women have all this privilege. I’m with you, a man who is trapped in a pregnancy shouldnt have to pay into the kid. My friend was dating a chick and she lied she was using birth control and then he was stuck with a kid. That FUCKING sucks. But there is no way to determine that Vs a supportive boyfriend at first who decided after the baby was born to leave in a court of law. Just wear a god damn condom. I put a fucking iud up my vagina and it was an absolutely terrible experience so you can wear a condom.

[+]CountCuriousness -6 points-5 points-4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Title	Double Standards
Author	nihilpill
Upvotes	3897
Comments	480
Date	March 26, 2018 7:40 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/87c0aq/double_standards/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/double-standards.903757 https://theredarchive.com/post/903757

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