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[–]Telekinesis75 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Thank you for posting, I was actually going to post the exact same thing, found the same poster at my doctors office in the unisex bathroom, was above the toilet (for standing males to see). Was disgusted by it and took my own picture.
You know every man is a potential beater, and you never know who it is, better to be paranoid about all men even when they're relaxed and cordial like that.
Funny becuase in all my personal life experience it has been the woman who have attacked the males, 3 different times with butcher knives (3 different woman), thrown objects, destroying things, attacking with belts in a rage, slaps, etc. My cousin was attacked with the knife by his girlfriend in his 20's but instead she told the police he attacked her and they of course due to female privilege, immediately believed her and charged my cousin. It took over a year to clear his name when she finally admitted she lied. Rumors started though and he lost his managerial job at work, it really messed him up for a long time and he never did get his job back when he was cleared.
I know abuse happens on both sides but the point is there is an incredibly small amount of support for men facing abuse, and in fact outright hostility and derision if you even mention it but you never see anything like this holding woman accountable for their actions or even accepting it exists via education and recognition.
Hey we're both in Calgary :)
[–]Bangaa33 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Funny becuase in all my personal life experience it has been the woman who have attacked the males
Same has happened in my family. My older brother was almost killed a few times by an abusive partner. Then she had the gall to call the police on him in the last incident. They turned up, saw him black and blue and bleeding (he NEVER fought back because of the archaic chivalry thing) and had only pushed her over (because she had a fucking knife) so she called the cops because she had a booboo. Cops turned up, took one look at him and took him to the hospital.
The fat slag got off with the entire thing because most men are too fucking nice for their own good and he didn't press charges (and probably would have failed in those days). And they rely and prey on it.
[–]friestogo4 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
How's your brother now?
[–]Bangaa7 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I don't see him much but he's fine, still putting his girl before all else. He's working overtime and doing everything he can to provide for his current girl who has very little respect for money, if you know what I mean. Has a holiday every year while also paying for a mortgage though he can barely afford it. Because she didn't like the house he already bought. Or something. I think its complete BS, but what can you do. He's his own adult.
[–]Lurker_IV3 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Introduce him to http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights thats what you can do.
[–]electriophile3 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
At least they took him to a hospital instead of prison.
[–][deleted]19 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
better to be paranoid about all men even when they're relaxed and cordial like that.
But that's not what this poster is suggesting. Its audience is men; not women. It's saying don't be an abuser; not be paranoid of potentially abusive men.
[–]friestogo10 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
It's audience is men
It's audience is abusers, or potential abusers. The problem is that they seem to think only men fit that description.
[–][deleted]4 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Well in the post I replied to it was for a male audience.
Well if you ever see a poster campaign targeting female abusers, be sure to let us know.
[–][deleted]2 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Lol. Yeah, the whole time writing on this thread I've been wondering about that. If it was equal opportunity, with each gender getting their own gender specific PSA, that'd be a no-brainer - not sexist.
[–][deleted]-1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Are you kidding? The number of physically abusive females would be far outweighed by the number of abusive males. Domestic violence is a major social issue and it's predominantly carried out by men - this is a poster aimed at men who are abusive or feel they could be and who want to get help. How on earth can you imply that it constitutes some kind of unfair, sexist treatment? Full disclosure, I'm male and I'm stumped as to why anybody would take issue with this.
[–]WhamBamMaam3 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Just because a majority of abuse is perpetrated by males doesn't mean that they should be exclusively targeted for it. It's equivalent to saying "well, a greater proportion of gay men have HIV than anyone else, so let's only tell them to wear protection." Plus, the statistics for female abusers are likely wildly underreported due to cultural taboo and the law's bias.
Plus, the statistics for female abusers are likely wildly underreported due to cultural taboo and the law's bias.
Agreed, but that notwithstanding are you going to say that the vast majority of domestic violence isn't carried out by men?
The rest of your point is analogous to a black man in South Africa seeing a poster designed to encourage black South African men to wear condoms and being incensed because he feels persecuted. AIDS is a massive problem for black men in SA, so of course there is more effort aimed at that group of people. I guarantee you, if the number of women beating up their boyfriends were to explode tomorrow, these kind of posters (but aimed at women) would start showing up. The point is: this poster isn't aimed at men because the people producing it are hard-core feminist bitches - it's because this is where the problem is currently. You are not being persecuted as a result of your gender; your gender is being targeted in this case because that's where the problem lies.
A quick caveat: I understand there are massive issues with respect to male vs female equality and in some cases men are utterly and unfairly fucked over (custody disputes etc), but this isn't one of them. Pretending that it is damages your cause.
[–]on_a_moose4 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Yes, I'd say that.
The whole system is designed to prevent the issue being acknowledged.
Man reports domestic violence = man removed from home.
Woman reports domestic violence = man removed from home.
To say nothing about charges.
Police departments in many areas have rules specifically defining this. They work on the policy that in ALL domestic violence incidents, arrest and remove the male.
Is it any wonder men don't report? Aside from being called pussies by the responding law enforcement, they'd basically be asking the cops to throw them out and/or charge them. And then the statistics makers use those arrests to compile more skewed results against males, counting all the cases where men are charged for being abused by their partners.
There have been recent studies showing up to 65% of domestic violence being perpetrated by women, and I bet not even a tenth of those resulted in charges against the women. The system is horribly fucked, and your outdated and outmoded views don't help to change anything.
[–][deleted]1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I find it incredibly hard to believe that the majority of domestic violence is perpetrated by women. I know there are a number of studies floating around which purport the opposite but I can't believe it. In your experience have women been more likely to physically abuse their male partners? It's ridiculous.
Yes, men get the short end of the stick in a lot of domestic violence disputes (and custody disputes and a in a number of other areas), but to say women are more physically abusive than men is a joke as far as I'm concerned. Sorry if that's an outdated view, but there's not a single person I know who'd take the opposing view.
[–]on_a_moose3 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
In your experience have women been more likely to physically abuse their male partners?
Yes. They know they can get away with it. They know they won't be punished. A horrendous number of women tend to be slap-happy, free with their fists, stabbing, hair pulling, scratching and object throwing people. The only repercussion they need to worry about when they do this is if the man hits back, and if he does, then they can cry to the police and he goes to jail/loses his job/loses his home/loses his kids. Nice.
The situation is only getting worse, as successive generations of girls see the system for what it is, and how it can be exploited. They're told (and tell each other) that girls hitting boys is empowering, and boys hitting girls means you can throw them in prison.
[–]Jesus_marley2 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I find it incredibly hard to believe that the majority of domestic violence is perpetrated by women.
It would be a good idea for you to familiarize yourself with this lovely little document. It contains a list of close to three hundred independent studies and analyses that show women are just as abusive if not more so than males.
The fact that the abuse inflicted by women is conveniently ignored does not mean it doesn't happen. The fact that there are no support services for men, does not mean they are not needed. And the fact that you refuse to acknowledge the need does not make it go away.
[–]WhamBamMaam1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I believe that limiting any message to exclusively one gender, especially such an important issue as this, is not only sexist, but damages our collective culture. If men are constantly taught that they are abusers, but then become the abused, and feel they can't respond or defend themselves, what will that produce? Battered women have a multitude of outlets, and men, only men, are demonized by these campaigns. My single request- why not insert a female face in that picture? Just one. Is that so difficult? And then, once we accept that women can be called out as well, the culture will begin to change.
My single request- why not insert a female face in that picture? Just one. Is that so difficult?
Great point, I would have zero issue with this. But you must understand that the reason this poster exists in the first place is because men are far more likely to victimize their female partner than the other way around? You make a great point though.
I just believe we should address the issue at hand as a whole, rather than a majority of the population that contributes to that issue. Once you remove gender from the equation, it becomes everyone's responsibility to be proactive. And thank you for this thought provoking exchange!
[–][deleted]3 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Right back at you - nice to have an (at least semi-civilized) discussion. I get what you're saying but why aim a social program where it's not needed? If female genital mutilation, a very culture-specific practice (google it if you need to) is an issue in your society, you don't aim the program at every single person in that society, you aim it at the groups who are likely to perform the practice. The same goes with any other societal problem which is inherent to one group; road responsibility programs are aimed at high-schoolers/new drivers as they are the most likely to race etc.
I think our main disagreement here is that I believe there should be a semblance of balanced representation, and that ignoring women abusers is a surefire way to send the wrong message and rub people the wrong way, as this post demonstrates. Even if they're in the minority, ignoring them is a mistake. I think it tells women that when they abuse men, it doesn't really "count" and tells men that when they're abused, it doesn't "count" either. And it does happen, especially in more forward-thinking countries like the US and Canada, where men don't have all of the social power.
Fair enough, but wouldn't "balanced" imply that the effort given to fighting an issue is in line with it's impact on society? Male domestic violence would, I assume (and I'm not going to pretend that I have any sources here) be far more of an issue than female on male violence. So it would be understandable that not much effort's put towards fighting female-on-male violence.
Other people in this thread might contest it, but I've known an awful lot of women who've been beaten by men, and zero men who've been beaten by women.
I agree that's a suitable definition for balanced here, and I also agree that women experience domestic violence more often. However, I think ignoring female on male isn't healthy for society. I also think it vilifies all men, casting suspicion on the gender instead of raising awareness about the issue, a point made elsewhere on this thread. I really need to sleep now, but rock on dude!
Cheers buddy, sleep well, hope you have a good weekend mate.
[–]clone12053 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
It is because research (that doesn't have an agenda) indicates there is gender parity among abusers in relationships. There is a link to plenty of research in the sidebar.
I may look into this (and excuse the arrogance implied in that), but if you could answer the following it might save me time - are you saying that physical abuse in relationships is gender neutral? (as opposed to physical / mental / some combination?).
[–]clone12051 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Well I am pretty cynical when it comes to organisations producing statistics that tie in perfectly with their aims, I mean not like conspiracy theorist level sillyness but just slightly more than skeptical. So I'd encourage you to look at real information as opposed to just listening to me, but I'd say that about everything and wish more people would engage in critical thinking as opposed to just learning what they are told. (Please don't take that as a dig at you, it is meant to be a comment on society in general)
Anyway that said, I believe that men and women have a roughly equal disposition towards abusing each other but that there is a lot more pressure placed on men not to be abusive than there is on women. I also think that men are much less likely to report abuse, especially for "trivial" physical abuse that causes little lasting injury. E.g. Slapping, breaking things, belittling him in public, etc.
The link I posted previously summarisies several surveys and reports with links back to the original source which support my belief that abuse is more equally distributed than feminist funded organisations would have us believe. It only takes a couple of minutes to read and was written by someone who has put a lot more effort into their research than I have on this subject :)
[–]theskepticalidealist2 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
The number of physically abusive females would be far outweighed by the number of abusive males
Not according to actual studies. More men are victims of abuse, but women tend to get worse injuries because when men hit they tend to hit harder.
[–]friestogo2 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
The number of physically abusive females would be far outweighed by the number of abusive males.
There is substantial evidence to suggest that this is not the case. I think someone already linked you to this, but here's the sidebar, and there's plenty more where that came from.
The broader issue, in relation to this poster, is that domestic violence towards men is largely ignored, when there is evidence to suggest that it occurs at a similar rate to domestic violence towards women.
[–]EvilPundit1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Domestic abuse is more equal than you think.
This bibliography examines 286 scholarly investigations: 221 empirical studies and 65 reviews and/or analyses, which demonstrate that women are as physically aggressive, or more aggressive, than men in their relationships with their spouses or male partners. The aggregate sample size in the reviewed studies exceeds 371,600.
[–]DinosBiggestFan-2 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Now hold it right there.
No one said a damn thing about physical abuse being the only kind of abuse you can put someone through, and women are -very- good at getting into your head.
[–][deleted]0 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
No one said a damn thing about physical abuse being the only kind of abuse you can put someone through.
I never said that was the case - I'm responding to a post that directly relates to physical abuse and doesn't once mention any other kind, so I don't understand the relevance of your point. Also, fucking with someone isn't a crime, physically abusing them is. Except in very limited cases (beaten wife syndrome etc) where mental abuse is considered a social matter, how you let other people talk to you or treat you (in a non-physical way) is your own business and not society's.
[–]DinosBiggestFan2 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Mentally abusing someone is still abuse. If you're unable to accept that, you're probably someone who does so.
how you let other people talk to you or treat you is your own business and not society's.
Tell that to all the women who falsely accuse someone because their feelings were hurt.
Women have power over men because of these situations. They can abuse someone mentally, destroy them to the point of defending themselves or make a shell out of a man.
Mental trauma is equally bad as physical trauma.
If you're unable to accept that, you're probably someone who does so.
Really sad, weak attempt mate, but no.
Mentally abusing someone is still abuse.
Yes it is, but not in the same sense as physical abuse. In some very limited circumstances as I stated before, it might be considered as such, but for the vast majority of cases mental abuse is something that you have to deal with.
If you follow your point to it's logical conclusion every schoolyard joke is abuse and a matter for government. At some point people need to either stand up for themselves or bear the brunt of being bullied - this is possible with mental abuse, not so with physical abuse. Mate, I understand your point believe me, I've had relationships go south with women and they can fuck with you like no other. But that is completely different to a man beating his wife - there's little or no comparison.
This is a valid point, but it's got very little to do with the original matter that we're discussing.
This is idiotic. Mental abuse is incredibly destructive, and it may happen far more frequently but it's in no way comparable to one person physically assaulting another. I know, I'm the child of an abusive relationship.
I'll apologize for that. Overly irritable due to sleeping issues. Mybad.
At some point people need to either stand up for themselves or bear the brunt of being bullied - this is possible with mental abuse, not so with physical abuse.
Children are easily able to be influenced by a group of people mentally abusing them every day. It then becomes physical abuse, if it hasn't already.
This is what causes shootings, because losing your sanity is not a pre-established birth condition.
Bullies also have another nice little thing on their side- Schools don't put the effort in to prevent bullying, and there are quite a few stories of kids being thrown out of school after they FINALLY stand up for themselves.
Pretty much anything about abuse, this can be brought up because mental abuse is still mental abuse.
I say it's worse because it can cause the victim of mental abuse to completely change for the worse. It can cause them to do things that no one would approve of, because their mind and self esteem were shattered by relentless attacks.
Eventually, one starts to feel like the world is against them and they turn against the world in turn.
And that's why it's worse. Especially with the state of mental healthcare in America right now.
Thank you for that. And apologies for "idiotic". I don't think we're going to agree and you make some reasonable points. I just don't get how the poster we were initially talking about, which is designed to help men who may be abusive or have inclinations that way to get help turns into a male versus female thing just because a women's group paid for it. I get there are inequalities and that when men are hard done by, they're generally ignored while similar issues experienced by women are lauded but what the fuck good does it do any of us to turn a good deed (the poster - a force for good which might help some poor fuck get help) into some kind of plot against us? It just seems weird to me. Anyway, I hope you have a good weekend.
[–]DinosBiggestFan1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Some people just like to rant. I do too. I've probably brought up my run ins with an extremely feminist mod on /r/CreepyPMs more times than I should have, for an example.
It's just that the poster is essentially showing that you should always distrust men, and that's not a good message you want to get across.
As for having a good weekend..Well, sleeping issues for the past week means I'll -want- to sleep all weekend but have too many obligations, so that's out the window.
However, hopefully you and everyone else has a good weekend, because good weekends are nice and I'm envious of people who have them.
That sucks you can't sleep mate. If it means anything, I hope you have a good one and it all gets better.
Well, at least somehow, on Reddit, we've managed to quell an argument that probably could've gone for hours.
[–]theskepticalidealist0 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Every study that I've seen that asks the same questions of men and women gets the same result. Here's a paper that also talks about various other studies, but dont assume this is some kind of anomaly.
GENDER SYMMETRY IN PARTNER VIOLENCE: THE EVIDENCE, THE DENIAL, AND THE IMPLICATIONS FOR PRIMARY PREVENTION AND TREATMENT
...Despite these writings, the prevailing conceptualization of PV remains that it is primarily a male crime and that the few women who do perpetrate PV do so almost exclusively in self-defense or in retaliation for a long history of victimization. Because of this conceptualization, it is necessary to present the evidence on symmetry in perpetration rate, motivation and risk factors for partner violence before moving on to explanations for the misperception and the implications of the misperception for designing more effective modes of prevention and treatment of PV. ....Several studies, including large and nationally representative samples, have found that that the most prevalent pattern is mutual violence, and that female-only violence is as prevalent as, or more prevalent than, maleonly violence. This is true even for severe partner violence such kicking, attacks with objects, choking...
I'm trying to figure out why you're replying to my post with this, as I've stated what looks to be exactly what you're stating- That women perpetrate violent acts toward men as well.
[–]theskepticalidealist1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I posted it because you implied that women may not be violent but they are "very good" at perpetrating mental abuse. The studies show that women are also very good at being violent too.
Oh. I never that they WEREN'T physically violent. I was saying they don't have to be physically violent to abuse their partner.
[–][deleted]7 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
This should be top comment, you're absolutely right - everybody's getting all worked up when they don't understand the basic premise of the poster - it's a men's support group. It's not trying to give any information to women or to imply that any man can be abusive. Sure it's paid for by a woman's group, but what's wrong with that; they have vested interest in the issue, let them do some good and stop bitching about it because you feel you've lost an imaginary point.
[–]theskepticalidealist9 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
it's a men's support group. It's not trying to give any information to women or to imply that any man can be abusive. Sure it's paid for by a woman's group, but what's wrong with that;
Its the same as all the "men can stop rape" and "men can stop domestic violence" campaigns.
Its stupid because you'd never see anything like that in reverse, or something thats gender neutral that reflects the real facts of DV. Its stupid because they are still openly suggesting to women that they should fear men. THEY COULD BE ANYONE.. MALE! Its still intending to promote the idea that its a male on female issue.
[–]benshere3 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
what kind of though process where they going through if all they thought it took was a poster for an abuser to stop? "all men could abuse someone, lets put up these signs reminding them not too"
[–][deleted]6 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
How else would you run a public campaign to reduce domestic violence?
[–]benshere4 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
by not painting an entire subgroup as potential abusers and aiming it at both genders, while reminding them the punishment for the crime. It it was a table full of women can you say there would be no complaints?
Does all marketing have to be aimed at both genders for it to not be sexist? (Aside from the obvious things like marketing for tampons or facial razors.)
[–]benshere2 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
not really comparable, one is marketing a product, the other is more of a PSA. Its like saying watch out for knife crime in london while showing a poster with only black people.
True, but perhaps a better example would be a PSA saying watch out fordon't commit knife crime using a poster with only men, not women. Would that be as bad as this abuse poster?
Depends on the statistics were as I would imagine male knife crime is a lot higher than male domestic abuse.
[–][deleted]5 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Alright, so if the statistics make it clear that one gender is the main perpetrator of a type of crime, then targeting just that gender in a PSA isn't sexist, yeah?
Which isn't the case with domestic abuse, btw. The CDC says "one in four women and one in seven men have been the victim of severe physical violence by an intimate partner" and goes on to say that opposite sex partners commit the majority of those crimes, which suggests that while men commit more domestic abuse crimes, women's rates of committing abuse are up there too.
[–]benshere1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Nope thats not what I said, I said if mens abuse of women was higher than mens knife crime then it would make sense, I would imagine that for example men are the large majority for knife crimes so it would make sense to target men in a knife crime PSA, but as you pointed out yourself that 1 in 7 men are still victims to the same abuse it doesn't make sense to make ads targeting only men as the perpetrators.
for example men are the large majority for knife crimes so it would make sense to target men in a knife crime PSA
equals
if the statistics make it clear that one gender is the main perpetrator of a type of crime, then targeting just that gender in a PSA isn't sexist
1 in 7 is not an overwhelming majority however, men are still a large portion of the victims, where as knife crime can be committed to both males and females but mostly perpetrated by men, I think who ever the victims are should be appealed too and whoever the ones perpetrating should be addressed in PSA's. OP's picture seems to neglect the fact that women can be the abusers too while painting all men as potential abusers.
Right. That's why I said domestic violence doesn't fit the examples you and I listed above for when it would be appropriate to target a specific gender only.
Its sexist when over 50% of abuse is committed by women, yet 100% of PSA/posters like this is directed towards telling men how horrible they are.
Source that over 50% of domestic abuse is committed by women please.
And not just because I think that's incorrect, but also bc I've been looking for gender stats on abusers not victims and couldn't find any.
[–]theskepticalidealist3 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
You're looking in the wrong place. A common tactic of feminists and their DV campaigns is to only look at the police reports or to use DV studies that only ask women. Once you look at the studies that ask men and women equally the same questions, you get a very different picture.
Here's a paper that also refers to various other studies that have reached the same conclusion. Every single study I have seen that has conducted a study on the topic using this unbiased methodology and using a method of collecting data that also includes men, comes to the same conclusion.
Okay that points out flaws in other studies but where's the study that says over 50% is committed by women?
Uh, it says it right there in the quote and its even highlighted for you. "More prevalent" means "over 50%". At least or more, is always the findings.
So I'm supposed to just blindly believe a sentence in a summary that doesn't cite an actual study?
Its cites a myriad of different studies, thats the whole point of the paper.
Every single study that has looked at this finds the same conclusion. I challenge you to find one that has the same methodology finding a different conclusion.
[–]Questionable_Concept-1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Considering that most domestic violence is committed by men against women, it's far more applicable to portray a group of males as potential abusers. Domestic violence against men does account for about a sizable third of all DV however that's not the majority, speaking with common sense, why would you appeal to the minority over the majority in an attempt to reduce DV?
Maybe because the minority is usually the more helpless group? male suicide is higher than females by a large margin often because they feel helpless in situations like this, because society tells them its not a "manly" thing to get help especially when being bullied by a female.
Considering that most domestic violence is committed by men against women,
Except thats the lie they keep promoting. Men tend to hit harder, but women are more abusive and violent. All studies Ive seen that ask the right questions of men and women come to that conclusion. Feminists promote all kinds of myths, especially surrounding domestic violence, such as the idea that men are more abusive to their partners around major sporting events, total nonsense.
Except it isn't.
Recognise the facts first. They wont do that and in fact cant do that. It can only be that men abuse women.
We know that is what they are implying at least as its secondary purpose if not a sneaky primary purpose. We know that the organisation that put this out does perpetrate this idea directly, because thats what they all do.
[–]jenniferinalaska15 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I agree that it is a gender rights issue that should take both genders accountable. Funnily enough, however, the only personal experience I've had with abuse has been male to female, showing that really it goes much outside the scope of personal knowledge. The sad thing is that although none of the people that I know pressed charges (something I would have done), if the gender of the attackers and victims had been switched, they couldn't have done so anyway for the very reason you describe above. It's about time people realize that abuse is abuse, regardless of gender. I think that a better poster should be one that has a table of both men and women saying, "One of these people abuses their partner."
[–]fearlessducttaper3 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Sexism. :(
Ive been abused but still, not cool.
[–]AnAdultWoman2 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
found the same poster at my doctors office in the unisex bathroom, was above the toilet (for standing males to see)
You should've pissed on it.
[–]FAN_ROTOM_IS_SCARY14 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Because random acts of vandalism = Exposing the bigotry that men face in the world.
[–]AnAdultWoman6 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Ok, fine, it's crude.
Write a letter or go in person and complain that you feel they're being discrimatory and unnecessarily bashing men. Send it to the office manager. Things being what they are, that will probably solve the issue.
[–]ThePigman5 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
It would show the assholes who put it there that at least one man found it objectionable.
Nonetheless, i wouldn't recommend pissing upwards onto something that is level with your face!
[–]seriesoftubesguy-3 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Doesn't change the fact any self respecting man should and would tear a poster like that down the second they see it and no one is looking.
Posters like the OP are hateful, shaming, and degrading.
They shouldn't be tolerated just because some of you want to call removing posters "vandalism".
Vandalism is posting hate speech on public walls and expecting no one to take issue.
[–]FAN_ROTOM_IS_SCARY6 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Alright then:
a) "Self-respecting man"? I'm not one to latch onto the small things but that comes off in really the wrong way.
b) You're overreacting to the poster, seriously. It's not saying that all men are abusers, or even that only men can be abusers. It's saying that some men abuse and may need help dealing with that. Is it part of a larger overall problem that there is little recognition of male victims and female abusers? Yes, I'm not denying that it is. But you cannot seriously think that its aim is to shame or degrade men.
c) Yes, removing a poster is vandalism. There are ways to prove to the world that men face issues, but tearing down a poster (which the person I was responding to did not suggest) is certainly not one of them. You don't win an argument by refusing your opponent the right to speak.
d) No, vandalism is:
Action involving deliberate destruction of or damage to public or private property.
E.g. tearing down a poster.
Really, think of it this way. Suppose a feminist saw an AVFM poster and decided to tear it down on the grounds that it was "hate speech". Is there a difference? Well, while there are some obvious differences, the fact of the matter is that individuals cannot be allowed to simply tear down posters based on their own opinions about its moral value. We have our case. The facts are on our side. How about we use them to good effect, present our case to the people who made this poster, and if they listen they listen, and if they do not, then that's just how life goes sometimes. But let's not stoop down to the level of the feminists who tried to stop people entering Warren Farrell's talk a few months ago.
[–]seriesoftubesguy2 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
"Self-respecting man"? I'm not one to latch onto the small things but that comes off in really the wrong way.
So then you condone men being ok with bullshit like in the OP, bullshit where they are painted with the broad brush of abuser or possible abuser for simply being male.
Thats what you're saying, you're ok with this?
I find it hard to believe a shit for brains like you who responds with a wall of text can be such a human doormat.
But ok.
You're overreacting to the poster
I'm overreacting?
Overreacting is looking at abuse of women by men stats and saying essentially all men are abusive to women or that people should treat men in such a way THAT'S OVERREACTING MOTHERFUCKER.
It's not saying that all men are abusers, or even that only men can be abusers.
Yea I guess its only a coincidence a piece of feminist propaganda about abuse uses ALL men as examples on the poster about abuse and violence.
For them, the creator of the poster, men are literally the posterboys of abuse and violence.
It's saying that some men abuse and may need help dealing with that.
No its saying all men are possible abusers and since you don't know which its best to distrust/brand them all.
The poster doesn't just label men as abusers it entirely refutes the possibility that women could abuse anyone.
Is it part of a larger overall problem that there is little recognition of male victims and female abusers? Yes, I'm not denying that it is. But you cannot seriously think that its aim is to shame or degrade men.
So wait, this poster is contributing to an overall problem that there is no recognition of abuse by women of male victims, yet the fact it paints solely men as abusers...isn't shaming or degrading anyone.
Holy fuck you're retarded.
Yes, removing a poster is vandalism. There are ways to prove to the world that men face issues, but tearing down a poster (which the person I was responding to did not suggest) is certainly not one of them. You don't win an argument by refusing your opponent the right to speak.
Vandalism is putting up hate speech posters that treat all men as monsters.
Vandalism is graffiti and destruction of property.
People have a right to speak, not a right to slander and shame half the goddamn human population.
Really, think of it this way. Suppose a feminist saw an AVFM poster and decided to tear it down on the grounds that it was "hate speech". Is there a difference?
Yea actually, AVfM posters don't paint all women as evil fucking cunts out to get all men.
Feminist propaganda almost always does.
[–]francis_hunter_brosh5 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Wow, now you're really overreacting. Go have a nap.
[–]vortex302 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Are you okay, man? :s
[–]FAN_ROTOM_IS_SCARY1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
So then you condone men being ok with bullshit like in the OP, bullshit where they are painted with the broad brush of abuser or possible abuser for simply being male. Thats what you're saying, you're ok with this? I find it hard to believe a shit for brains like you who responds with a wall of text can be such a human doormat. But ok.
Okay, I'm going to try to keep this formal as possible, but stop with the strawman there. What I'm saying is that you are not making an argument by saying that "self-respecting men" agree with you and that anyone who disagrees is a "human doormat". I don't think that activism is done through petty vandalism, but that has no impact on whether I'm okay with men being discriminated against. Also, don't assume that I'm male, please.
I'm overreacting? Overreacting is looking at abuse of women by men stats and saying essentially all men are abusive to women or that people should treat men in such a way THAT'S OVERREACTING MOTHERFUCKER.
As I have said, the poster in the OP does not state that "essentially all men are abusive to women or that people should treat men in such a way". It's saying "some men are abusers, here's a help line for men who want to avoid being one". Yes, it's saying it in a clumsy and insensitive way, but no, it isn't making any of the claims that you say it does.
Yea I guess its only a coincidence a piece of feminist propaganda about abuse uses ALL men as examples on the poster about abuse and violence. For them, the creator of the poster, men are literally the posterboys of abuse and violence.
Yes, men are used because there is little recognition of female abusers right now; that's a problem. However, the Calgary Women's Emergency Shelter does not directly state anywhere that they do not acknowledge male victims and female abusers. Certainly the language they use in their posters and websites is rather gendered, so it is almost a certainty that they do not, but I have sent them an email to verify and will either update this post or reply to another of yours if I receive a response.
No its saying all men are possible abusers and since you don't know which its best to distrust/brand them all. The poster doesn't just label men as abusers it entirely refutes the possibility that women could abuse anyone.
No it doesn't. It's not directed at women, so it is not telling them to "distrust/brand them all", it is saying (albeit clumsily) that "if you are an abuser you should consider that your behaviour is harmful and try to get help for it." I recommend reading their "Am I Abusive" section on their website. It does imply that only men can abuse, but it is certainly not saying that all men abuse or that all men are untrustworthy scum because there are male abusers.
So wait, this poster is contributing to an overall problem that there is no recognition of abuse by women of male victims, yet the fact it paints solely men as abusers...isn't shaming or degrading anyone. Holy fuck you're retarded.
You're not winning any points here by insulting me with ableist slurs, buddy. It is not shaming anyone, as I have already pointed out that it is not saying all men are abusers. It is potentially shaming male abusers. That's it. The problem it poses is the fact that a large group with influence is exclusively portraying abusers as male and victims as female, meaning that people are affirmed of that misconception through a trust in authority.
Vandalism is putting up hate speech posters that treat all men as monsters. Vandalism is graffiti and destruction of property. People have a right to speak, not a right to slander and shame half the goddamn human population.
No, vandalism is not putting up hate speech posters that treat all men as monsters because vandalism is, as you correctly stated, vandalism is graffiti and destruction of property. Property including posters. Also, this is not "slander" by any definition, nor is it shaming anyone. Unfortunately, a right to free speech applies to the people you disagree with
Yea actually, AVfM posters don't paint all women as evil fucking cunts out to get all men. Feminist propaganda almost always does.
You've missed the point entirely. You disagree with what you perceive the poster has to say. That does not give you or anyone else the right to take it down on those grounds, because if we could do that, no one would be able to keep any poster up because someone could claim that they perceived it as hate speech and were thus justified in removing it.
Also, you're assuming that the CWES is feminist. To my knowledge, there is not evidence that it is.
[–]seriesoftubesguy-1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Yes, it does, it makes it explicitly clear that the poster is conveying the idea only men abuse and women are always the victims, if that weren't the case men wouldn't be their little posterboy for abusers.
Get it through your thick fucking skull.
I wonder how ok you would be with a poster featuring all women that said
Just because you and he got divorced, doesn't mean he owes you.
or
Just because you were drunk, doesn't mean you can accuse him of rape
My guess is you would cry and cry about how sexist it was.
As I have said, the poster in the OP does not state that "essentially all men are abusive to women or that people should treat men in such a way".
Again yes it does, the poster was designed specifically to target men and paint them as abusers.
Yes, men are used because there is little recognition of female abusers right now; that's a problem. However, the Calgary Women's Emergency Shelter does not directly state anywhere that they do not acknowledge male victims and female abusers.Certainly the language they use in their posters and websites is rather gendered, so it is almost a certainty that they do not, but I have sent them an email to verify and will either update this post or reply to another of yours if I receive a response.
You just can't help but defeating your own arguments.
You say they're not explicitly ignoring male victims and female abusers yet in the same breath acknowledge its a problem.
I guess when you acknowledge drunk driving as an issue and a truck driven by someone trashed out of their fucking skull speeds by you ignore its very existence.
The fact is your being here, "participating" in this sub is a show, nothing more than to quell your conscious telling you what a piece of shit you are.
You don't give a damn about men or their rights, you're happy to give man haters and misandrists the benefit of the doubt.
Go fuck yourself.
No it doesn't. It's not directed at women
http://i.imgur.com/tsIZGJy.png
so it is not telling them to "distrust/brand them all", it is saying (albeit clumsily) that "if you are an abuser you should consider that your behaviour is harmful and try to get help for it.
You're getting there, but not quite
it is saying (albeit clumsily) that "if you are an abuser you should consider that your behaviour is harmful and try to get help for it. if you're male
Afterall, only men can be/are abusers.
It does imply that only men can abuse, but it is certainly not saying that all men abuse or that all men are untrustworthy scum because there are male abusers.
Denial sure sucks, maybe one day you'll get over it and stop being such a man hating piece of shit...who knows.
You're not winning any points here by insulting me with ableist slurs,
Lol...go back to shitredditsays.
It is potentially shaming male abusers. That's it
It took you halfway through that giant wall of text and quotes and quite a bit of berating before you were even willing to entertain that idea.
I'm guessing this is after you went to the source to see for yourself and now your pride won't allow you to admit you were full of shit.
Pa-fucking-thetic.
The problem it poses is the fact that a large group with influence is exclusively portraying abusers as male and victims as female, meaning that people are affirmed of that misconception through a trust in authority.
And thats just such a tiny little nothing issue to you.
Does it matter?
If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, guess what bitch ITS A FUCKING DUCK.
Honestly at this point I'm only responding because I find your struggle with your own cognitive dissonance hilariously entertaining.
I am not continuing this any further. You have proven that you are unwilling to have a rational discussion without resorting to insults and I see no point in further attempting to make my point known.
[–]Sazura2 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I've seen some of the same things.. Thanks for sharing!
Right on :) I love Calgary.
[–]Windex0072 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
these are at MRU as well. Raged.
[–]RPrevolution1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
:p every person is a potential something, so men=bad
[–]yunolisten1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I'm in Calgary as well. Surprised about all the check ins!
Remember you're in the town of rig pigs and cowboys, most men "cowboy up" in Calgary and don't seek support or would even accept it if provided.
[–]hellohaley1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Also fun piece of anecdotal trivia: a prison worker and her husband a deputy sheriff came in to my office today, they both work in prisons, and they said the women's prisons have at least twice as many fights as the men's prisons do. They have at least one a day in the women's prison where as that's not the case at the men's facility. Don't know if that is an over all trend or just in the prisons they work for. I just found that interesting.
[–]MiniMosher0 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
ya know if we're such monsters then why are they making our toilets unisex? surely you'd want to isolate us when we take a shit to lower the chances of men going into auto-rape mode at the sight of a female /s
[–]LadyOlduvai1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
It's often to make trans and intersex people more comfortable, so they don't have to choose from a binary. It has nothing to do with the idea that men can actually keep their hands to themselves in such situations.
In fact, when the unisex bathrooms opened up at my university, that was one of the concerns I overheard (completely unofficially).
[–]Sand_Shepherd73 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
..............Am I the only one that noticed the faint outline of
"Bitch Left The Kitchen"
in the middle of the poster
http://i.imgur.com/mj8kMo2.jpg
[–]kupfernikel41 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Because of men like that this type of feminism grow in strenght...
[–]Sand_Shepherd2 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Its not because I'm sexist, a woman-hater, abusive, or anything of that nature that I noticed this scribbling (I am not any of these things to be clear).
Its because I'm an engineer and a mechanic. I look for little things that could be wrong with a system or a machine every day. It makes me very observant and keen on things most would ignore.
Now that we've got that out of the way, the person who wrote this is either a complete asshole, or a troll looking to start some trivial argument amongst people they'll never meet.
If they're the latter, it looks like they succeeded.
[–]nevyan-chail12 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I think kupfernikel was referring to whoever drew on the poster, at least that's how I read it.
[–]seriesoftubesguy0 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Quite the opposite I'd imagine.
Thanks to feminism like that men like that show up more and more.
That said, you spew hate, you're gonna get it back.
So I can't say I give a damn if some men become hateful to alot of women after being demonized by, guess who, alot of women.
[–]kupfernikel15 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
There are more inteligent and non sexists ways to respond to their dumb sexism.
A woman shout "you are a abuser!", and a man shouts back " go back to the kitchen,bitch!". One is no better then the other. Bouth are spewing hate, and it doesnt matter who begun.
Its pretty much like saying that being racists toward whites is ok because there are whites who are racists.
[–]illegal1amigo3 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Intelligent an abuser both* not a great speller myself, shit not even american, but that was bugging the shit out of me.
sexism only breeds more sexism towards either side
[–]rogersmith254 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
While I agree that is a horrible thing to write on that poster, I think that a dark sense of humor is a coping mechanism that many men develop. Honestly, it's depressing to see this sort of poster accusing men of being a potential abusers, and a lot of men feel like they have little recourse for defending themselves. In mainstream conversations, Men's Rights ideas aren't exactly considered PC, so the only outlet for the feelings of frustration and depression is a detached ironic sense of humor.
I obviously don't think that it's right, but I do think that it is a product of the anti-male environment many of us have or currently endured.
In a career class in grade school, my class had to suffer through a tirade about the glass ceiling and male chauvinism. The boys in the class were dejected - we hadn't hit puberty and we were already shouldering the blame for the "sins of our gender". Honestly, it was after that point that all the cliched "make me a sandwich"-type humor came out - like this, I believe that it was a defense mechanism.
[–]Arcnsparc54 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
"One of these men is abused by his partner."
[–]Valens21 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
That's more likely. But it's not called abuse when women do it. If she hits you, you probably deserved it :/
[–]InNomine24 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
It's equally likely not more
[–]hounvs-1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I don't have a source so I could be wrong but I've read before that most domestic abuse situations are started by women. As in the woman hits first, not just starts the argument. If that's true, then it is more likely.
[–]Ashanmaril1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
AW, YEAH! YOU GO GIRL!
GIRL POWER!!!
[–]MinimaL_SC1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Where does it say that? Do you hear that from sane people? Or do you selectively remember all the crazy stupid shit you heard and use those specific examples to paint a shitty picture of what "the feminists" think...? Come on, now.
[–]yourotherusername1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I would support a sticker to correct the poster. Vandalism, but this time I am o.k. with it.
[–]Planner_Hammish1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
ninja edit every time you see one of these posters
[–]Arcnsparc7 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
A sharpie is the best slackivist tool.
[–]Not_A_Dinosaur37 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I don't know what's worse: the fact that they are all men, or that it is implied that you don't know which one so you can't trust any.
[–]Brainzz12 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
It indirectly says; One in five men abuses their partner Of course they cant actually print that, because they don't have facts to back it up. But I believe this is what the poster is implying.
[–]Broke_stupid_lonely11 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
That's what infuriates me. All men are made out to be monsters because of the one guy who did hit his partner.
Same here. Just as bad - if they really want that one guy to call in, it's not going to help making him out to be a monster either. So not only is it offensive to men, but it doesn't even effectively target abusers as otherwise ordinary people who need help dealing with their problems.
That's actually what I got out of the ad when I first saw it. I really don't know what they were going for. Why would they promote paranoia?
Maybe it would have been better if they said
"Four of these five men do not abuse their partners. We want to help you become the fifth.
If you are having trouble in your relationship and need someone to talk to, please call... No one should have to feel that violence is their only option."
At least then the ad doesn't raise suspicion, actually targets male abusers particularly, and doesn't make them feel like scum, but someone with problems who needs to talk them through.
I'm no expert on ads, but whomever created this one clearly isn't either.
[–]raynman3725 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I see nothing wrong here. This was provided by a women's emergency shelter and is made from the standpoint of a woman. If it were a group trying to promote equality, then sure I'd have a problem, but this was designed to speak to their target audience specifically on behalf of battered women.
[–]dalsgaard9 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
The issue I have with this poster is the issue I have with being asked the question: "Have you stopped beating your wife yet?". It's a famous trick question, because it doesn't matter what you answer. You can answer yes or no, but in the end of the day the accusation is still there between the lines, implied in the question.
By saying "One of these men abuses their partner. You don't have to", it's implying that the reader is a violent individual who is capable of battering his partner, simply because he's in a men's bathroom. I'm not going to accept that implied accusation, and I'm not going to condone it. It's important to help women who are in abusive relationships, but it's not OK to criminalize all men in an attempt to do so.
[–]itsnotlupus1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
"Have you stopped beating your wife yet?"
That's some standard scientology handling shit right there.
The more shocking thing I take from this is that 20% of men abuse their spouses. Is that true, and how does that compare to women abuse their spouses?
[–]dalsgaard0 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I don't know about the 20% thing. Honestly, that seems like it's something that is just grabbed out of thin air. Regarding comparisons though, there are just as many women who abuses their spouses (If not more), than men.
[–]theskepticalidealist-1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
It just continues to perpetrate the myth that domestic violence is against women only by men.
[–]EvilPundit-1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
The poster is offensive to men. That's what's wrong with it.
[–]dalsgaard22 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
This poster treats the reader like he's already a criminal. Not only that, it instills paranoia by depicting everyone in his social circle as a potential violent individual.
I've never laid a hand on anyone nor has any of my male friends, and I resent the implication.
Same. People have too much compassion for females.
Not that compassion is bad- Compassion is good. I praise females so highly, and I would -never ever- attack my girlfriend or anyone else at all.
But when you show up to a domestic abuse complaint and the guy is painted in his own blood with several stab wounds struggling to live and the girl is virtually wound free, and still don't do anything about the woman, there's an issue.
And sadly, this is what happens more frequently than the media will let people know.
I'm right there with you- I resent this poster and everything it stands for. It is an offensive piece of material that has no bearing on anything.
[–]disposable-identity1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
"This poster treats the reader like he's already a criminal."
Only if the reader is in fact an abuser. In that case, yes, they apparently do want him to call them for the counselling service they're offering.
[–]dalsgaard1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Only if the reader is in fact an abuser.
If you don't feel offended by posters like these that's fine by me. But a similar campaign wouldn't fly against blacks, jews, women or a any religious group. Ask yourself why.
[–]disposable-identity2 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
But it works everywhere else: Don't drink & drive.
Ads are written to speak to the "buyer", not to everyone who reads them. ...but ...but I don't do that! They're unjustly accusing me of something I would never do!
Your comparison is not applicable. One is a gender identity, something half of the world's population define themselves as. No one identifies as drunk drivers. You won't find a subreddit called "Drunk drivers rights".
Ads are written to speak to the "buyer", not to everyone who reads them.
Ads are written so they speak to a certain demographic. And there are ways to address abusers only, instead of ambiguously targeting all men like they're doing here. Like in this example. Or this.
Again, if you're not offended by it, fine. But respect the fact that some of us are. We've grown up being told everyday that we're violent assholes by nature, and we're tired of it.
My argument is directly applicable.
We're all drivers and only some (maybe 1 in 5?) are drunk drivers.
That ad only needs to speak to the abuser. That's the only person they want calling.
[–]darth_redemption19 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
In my relationship I'm more likely to take a swat at my fiance in annoyance, HE needs to remind ME not to hit HIM. This isn't angry slapping and shoving and desire to hurt either. Just habitual light swatting when I say I look like a sea cow and he reminds me they're called manatees. Still NOT OK. Why is it that there are no posters to remind women like me that it's never OK to even jokingly strike someone? It's a hard habit to break but I'm working on it. The worst is that people have witnessed this and don't seem to think anything of it. But when I dropped the clock on my face EVERYONE thought he was beating me. That poster should be a 50/50 mix maybe and say "one of these people abuses their spouse" ,':/
[–][deleted]11 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
In my opinion, a light-hearted swat or pat on the shoulder or arm is okay. I mean, usually it's easily discernable what kind of contact is meant to be hurtful or to cause pain, and what kind naturally accompanies a conversation between two people that are comfortable with each other.
Unless the contact is made in real anger or rage, or is meant to inflict pain, I just see it as a normal part of conversation. That being said, I suppose everyone should be careful when, where and with whom this type of playful contact is made and how much force is put behind it.
I hope this is taken in the spirit with which it is intended, I'm not condoning violence. I just hate the idea that in protecting victims from abuse, we don't stop being humans.
[–]TBoneTheOriginal5 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
My problem is purple nurples… my wife does it all the time just joking around, but… I'm not a fan. lol
[–]darth_redemption3 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
It'd probably be fine but since his reaction is to stop being fun and seriously tell me to stop it's clearly inappropriate behavior on my part. I have asperger's though so I need to be careful learning new behaviours, this was one I developed from spending time with people who thought it was all good fun.
[–]maybesane14 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
My aunt made her kids watch her beat her husband with a clothes hanger on a regular basis. Where is she in this picture?
It depends on what the definition of "Abuse" is.
I have heard neo gender-feminists claim that if you don't put youre paycheck right on the kitchen table where she told you to put it, and she has to ask you for it...thats abusing women.
There was a list floating around a while ago that had all kinds of bullshit on it. I shit you not, right on top of one another were:
He has sex with her when she doesn't want it. And Refuses to have sex with her.
So basically, if your partner is in the mood and you're not, you're abusing her if you say no.
[–]Harddaysnight19905 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
And following that logic, the first one could be construed as saying that it's abuse if she begrudgingly agrees to sex, even if she's not in the mood.
[–]inyouraeroplane1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
It kind of is.
[–]TheoreticalFunk8 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Meh. I think this is fair. Maybe one of those fictional people do hit their wives. Not for me to judge the guy who drew the picture.
I really think this poster is for helping people who ARE abusive and want to stop. In that vein it's trying to be helpful.
edit: Probably would be better if there was a woman or two in the picture... so fair point. I've been drinking and I'm a super happy/friendly drunk.
Are you new to mens rights or something?
I see a lot of these kinds of comments here today which i suspect is because of new people that joined because of the recent reddit highlight of this sub.
People who understand what mens rights is about regarding DV would instantly understand whats wrong with this poster.
[–]TheoreticalFunk1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
No, been on here a while. I think both sides have their panties in a bunch and are super sensitive.
This poster continues to promote the idea that its men that are abusers and not women. Not even a single women at that table. What about this do you not understand?
[–]ichlibejuice6 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
It's probably the black guy.
[–]CaptainEZ6 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I fail to see what's wrong with this picture. There are 5 fictional people, one of them is an abuser. It's not like it's saying every man abuses his wife or anything. I think it's just trying to get across the fact that it doesn't take a special kind of person to be abusive. Sure, it might be a little one sided, but there's nothing inherently anti-male about it. It's a hotline for men to call to work through their anger issues, why put a woman on it?
Seems like you're just looking for something to be pissed about in this case.
Reverse the genders, then understand you'd never see anything like that because they'd be horrified that you are saying women are abusers. Then consider that men are regularly told they themselves are abusers when they report being abused, being diverted to abuse lines that this poster is referring to. Then consider that more abuse and violence is committed by women, and you might see what we see is wrong with this poster.
[–]Joseph_Broebbels6 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I had my nose broken 4 times by my ex, and everybody I tried to talk to for help/support laughed at me for being a "pussy" because she was a foot shorter and 100lbs lighter than I was.
This kind of shit really pisses me off.
[–]Rationalization5 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
It's the one in orange isn't it? That smug smirk gives it away.
[–]AnUnchartedIsland1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Ha, that's exactly what I was thinking. 2nd choice would be farthest guy on the left.
[–]iheartbakon1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I thought it was the meat head on the far left but he's obviously gay.
[–]ObsidianOverlord4 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
It's the one on the far left that looks like Nixon.
[–]atlasdependent3 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Is the one in the center a young Nixon?
[–]yourotherusername2 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Young mitt Romney
[–]amemebyanyothername3 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
bruce willis is too busy beating bad guys to beat his wife
[–]bgmrk3 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Should complain to the establishment about this. Tell them how it makes you feel. I realize we are here to talk about issues facing men, but we are also here to change the way people see men. Go be the voice and get this slander removed from the walls.
[–]Jiral3 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
The positive: Free counseling service for men.
The negative: It's riddled with anti-male sentiment.
[–]Planner_Hammish8 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
The positive: Free counseling service for men who identify as being an abuser
FTFY
So if they reversed the genders, women wouldnt get upset at being called an abusers?
The whole point of a poster like this relates to the similar idea expressed in Schrodinger's Rapist. ANYONE can be a rapist, even if he's someone you knew for a long time, even if he seems like a really nice guy. A table with a cross section of male demographics is meant to say, fear all men. That is its secondary and I would say sneaky primary purpose this poster is intended for.
I don't disagree with what you are saying.
What I meant by my comment was that the phone line is not a free counseling service for men; it is a free counseling service for men who think/know they are abusers of women and want to be told not to do that anymore. Those are two very different things.
[–]Sharkictus3 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I dont see issue with this, there could opposite gender equivalant somewhere. And its only says one of them..
Any human being is potentially a beater killer raper stealer, etc.
I dont see issue with this, there could opposite gender equivalant somewhere.
But there isn't. That's the issue.
The poster falsely depicts men as potential abusers, while ignoring women.
[–]Sharkictus1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
You can't actually prove that, I mean it's unlikely, but there's a chance there could be somewhere else.
TBH when I saw this poster, I first though one of those guys in in a gay relationship with one of others, and beats him
[–]MinimaL_SC3 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Oh no, a poster that says "HEY, REGULAR PEOPLE WHO YOU MAY CASUALLY KNOW HAVE A DECENT CHANCE TO BE ABUSIVE TO THEIR PARTNERS." Why are you all freaking out about it?
[–]rottingchrist3 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
REGULAR PEOPLE MEN
[–]MinimaL_SC4 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Prepare yourself for a crazy idea here, but how about you guys make an informational poster and set up an organization and a hotline that people can call for when women are abusive to men? Or even MtoM and FtoF? How about you fucking do that instead of bitch and whine about it on this horseshit forum? Start helping and stop fucking hating.
[–]rottingchrist6 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Red herring. It's not an either or thing. Helping men does not stop the annoyance men feel from the kind of demonization this poster peddles.
It is worthwhile to set up resources that can help men.
It is also okay to be annoyed by people who make posters like these.
So fuck you, and your sanctimoniousness.
EDIT: Also, it seems like you don't belong here anyway. Why don't you go hang out with your own sort.
[–]MinimaL_SC-3 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Be honest: do you think there are abusive men in the world?
[–]clone12056 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
At no point did he insinuate there aren't. We aren't in the business of denying that some people who share "our" gender are capable of violence unlike the makers of this poster*.
In response to your previous post, any informed individual would be well aware that there are far fewer support services for men not because of a lack of requirement but because there are almost insurmountable obstacles to overcome with regards to funding and societal pressure.
*This can be inferred with a little research that indicates the only support services they offer men are phone based with one having the sole aim of protecting women (the counselling mentioned on this poster). Unless I have missed anything on here.
[–]MinimaL_SC-1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I don't understand how that is insulting to men and I don't understand why a poster saying that there are men who beat women is bad. That fact is true. It doesn't say anything about you specifically, or your friends, just men in general. AND IT IS TRUE.
Also, I imagine they offer better services to women is BECAUSE THEY NEED THEM. There ARE shitty guys out there, who any of us could have a conversation with, who have or will beat a woman. This poster was put up by the CALGARY WOMEN'S EMERGENCY SHELTER, which I would imagine aims to protect women.
If this subreddit was worth a damn, it would start a movement to get support for men who have been abused. It would start an ad campaign demonstrating how it is okay to be a guy and to report abuse, AND IT WOULD MAKE A FUCKING HOTLINE AIMED AT SUPPORTING MEN.
Instead, you guys bitch about how much support women have, and take offense to a poster that aims to help women AND men in the Calgary area. Do you see how pathetic that is?
[–]clone12052 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Be honest: do you think there are no abusive lesbian couples?
Just because a woman needs help in an abusive relationship doesn't mean that it is a man that is abusing her, yet this is how this poster portrays it. Non-biased research indicates women are roughly as abusive as men within relationships and the worst violence happens within mutually abusive relationships. Yet centers like this (which are the overwhelming majority) focus on women and children = victim and men = abuser.
The fact we are having this discussion now shows that we are doing something, we are challenging deeply held beliefs about social dynamics. The idea that men can't be abused by women is the first thing that needs to go before it will even be feasible for most people here to try to open an outreach centre aimed at men without huge societal resistance and backlash.
Your posts however makes it blindingly clear you are just here to call us out on our perceived bullshit and that you don't give a flying fuck about equality as you are repeating yourself now. So unless you have something worthwhile to add I think I'm done talking to you.
Be honest: do you have to caricature his argument because you can't address what his position actually is?
His position is that the poster offends him because it demonizes men. I asked if he thinks there are men in the world who beat women. He didn't reply.
His position is based on taking the poster personally, when what the poster suggests is true. Domestic violence is a big problem, and this poster suggests that any of us could be sitting in a room hanging out with someone who is abusive. That is TRUE. You cannot deny that. Abusers are regular people.
The reason I asked if he thought there are abusive men in the world is because his position could actually make sense if he didn't think there were any.
Also, in no way was my response a caricature.
I asked if he thinks there are men in the world who beat women.
Implying that he doesn't believe men beat women. This is not what he ever implied in any part of his argument. Therefore, strawman.
Domestic violence is a big problem, and this poster suggests that any of us could be sitting in a room hanging out with someone who is abusive.
No the reason people dislike this poster is because once again it presents the idea that DV is something only men do, despite the fact that while men tend to hit harder women commit at least half or more abuse and violence towards their partners than men. If there were an equal amount of men as to women in the picture and the language was gender neutral to say both men and women are violent and abusive and provide a helpline for them all, no one would have a problem.
[–]MinimaL_SC0 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
But the poster is for the CALGARY WOMEN'S EMERGENCY SHELTER. The ONLY idea presented in this poster is that you may be, or be hanging out with, a guy who abuses women.
This organization helps battered women, so they make their poster oriented towards helping battered women and helping the abusive men control their shit.
Once again, this is a organizations that caters specifically towards women who have been abused, and their posters and other media are in alignment with that fact.
Also, have fun picking quotes and citing fallacies and >implying instead of attempting to understand what I wrote.
CALGARY WOMEN'S EMERGENCY SHELTER.
All big DV organisations present the same view. Its always that men batter women not women batter men (outside the occasional courtesy footnote). The only ones that dont get next to no funding, like Mankind. Also you seem to entirely forget that women also abuse women, you know... like in lesbian relationships or when the mother abuses the children. How do you rationalise the absence of targeting even them?
If you can find an example of a prominent DV organisation that actually presents the facts of DV and targets men and women then please do present it.
In the mean time, we see stuff like this and get a bit pissed off: http://i.imgur.com/NgqKJ3Y.png
[–]rottingchrist0 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Your disingenuousness was already pretty stark with the pseudo-hysterical all caps comments, but you removed any lingering doubt with your reply.
The poster plainly says "you too can stop beating your wife". If you can't see why that may be offensive to men then you are either a troll, or really lack any kind of empathy towards men. And in either case, you don't really belong here.
It says "you too can stop beating your wife" because that NEEDS TO BE SAID. There are men who beat their wives, and they NEED to be told that it is not okay. They even offer a number to call and talk to somebody about their problem.
What I don't understand is how you can take offense to this? Abusive men are real, and are a problem.
Why does it matter where you think I belong?
It says "you too can stop beating your wife" because that NEEDS TO BE SAID. There are men who beat their wives, and they NEED to be told that it is not okay.
Please show me some PSA's from some DV organisations that target women to not beat and abuse their partners. Cheers!
Here's some advice. Call that number if you're a man. It may help you to stop beating your wife.
If you are a woman, [call this line] (http://www.webmd.com/balance/ex-prostitute-helpline). It'll help you to stop being a prostitute.
If it was gender neutral and the hotline was gender neutral it would be hailed as a breakthrough surprise for mens rights that a domestic violence group actually acknowledged abusive women to that degree.
It is an organization based on protecting WOMEN. Their goal is to protect WOMEN, because it was set up by people who are or know ABUSED WOMEN and want to help.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that there haven't been any shelters or hotlines for abused men because the men haven't made one or supported one.
The women's shelter exists because it was needed. Men hit women enough to get them to make a shelter.
The men's shelter doesn't exist, and that could be for several reasons.
I dont see why you keep capitalising women as if I dont already know that.
The fact that DV organisations only believe DV is something men do to women, and all their PSAs and posters target men as abusers and women as victims because of this idea, is exactly the point people are making.
The men's shelter doesn't exist, and that could be for several reasons. >1. Nobody tried to start one
Haha, you really need to look into Erin Pizzey. She started the first DV shelter in the world. She soon realised how many violent women were coming to her and also how many men needed help, she wanted to get funding for a mens shelter too and GUESS WHAT HAPPENED. I'll tell you end of the story, feminists chased her out of the country and killed her dog. Not the first time feminists have reacted this way to the idea that women are abusers too. You just cannot get funding for mens shelters and help. Men are laughed out of police stations, more likely to get accused themselves even legally due to predominant aggressor policies, more likely to have the female violence condoned and supported.
EVEN THOUGH A FUCKING BATTERED WOMEN'S SHELTER WOULD HELP A GUY OUT AND SEND HIM IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION ANYWAY.
As you'd know if you had the first clue about what you're talking about that many men who try and do just that will be sent to helplines and services for men who abuse women. And what will a man do if he tries to get shelter at a womans shelter? He cant get shelter just about anywhere. Not even if he is a boy over 12 is the rule in many shelters.
[–]circuitology3 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I don't think I quite agree with that.
It's good that there's a counseling service. But I would be willing to bet that there is equal amounts of (if not significantly more) abuse by women aimed at men.
Someone needs to do a proper study on this subject, and find out how much more women are the abusers than the abused. Or maybe they have already, if so would someone please reply with info?
There are several studies linked to in the side bar. Summary of studies on domestic violence
But I would be willing to bet that there is equal amounts of (if not significantly more) abuse by women aimed at men.
No need to bet. Thats exactly what the studies show and there's been plenty of them.
[–]direwolfed2 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
So one out of five males is an abuser? Next time I'm out for another man night I need to look very closely at my friends.
[–]Planner_Hammish7 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
and if you dont see one, you are the abuser!
Nnnnoooooooooooo!!
[–]Greyfeld2 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
While the underlying message is disgusting, it's hard for me to get too riled up about it. I mean, the poster is funded by a women's DV shelter, so it seems obvious to me that they would focus on the female side of DV.
That, of course, doesn't change the fact that I think the over-abundance of female DV shelters is a crock of shit (there should be an equal number of men's shelters, or change all of them to gender-neutral), but that's another topic for a different discussion.
[–]UP_BO_AT_S1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I don't think having a gender-neutral shelter is a good idea at all.
The point of women's shelters is that they are places where women can go to get away from their husband. Men aren't allowed in them because a lot of abusive spouses will try to track down their partners.
If men are allowed it in it would be way too easy for a husband to track down his wife or vice versa.
[–]Greyfeld1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I don't think I follow your logic.
[–]UP_BO_AT_S0 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Women's shelters are a safe haven for women to get away from abusive partners. I know that, at least in my town, men are not allowed in the shelter to prevent abusive spouses from tracking down the women to the shelter and forcing them to go home. If a shelter was gender neutral it would be easier for men to get in and intimidate their partner into going home.
The same can be said for men's shelters. They should be a place where men can escape their abusive partners without fear that a woman will be able to get into the shelter and force them to go home.
I'm pretty sure that you can't just storm into a shelter and drag people out, no matter what gender you are.
No not physically but a huge aspect of domestic abuse is the psychological aspect. Many women deny that they are being abused because they are too afraid of their partner and believe that there is nothing they can do.
I've never been to a shelter myself, so I can't speak from personal experience, but it seems to me that each person coming in should probably be screened first, to avoid such situations.
Which pretty much makes your assertion for gender-specific DV shelters moot.
Because deeming who is and is not a victim of domestic abuse when they are at a shelter is a really easy way for people who need help to be denied it?
There is nothing sexist or wrong with having separate women's and men's shelters for domestic abuse. Not everything world needs to be gender-neutral.
there should be an equal number of men's shelters, or change all of them to gender-neutral
You obviously skipped right over part of my original post.
Oh...I did miss that. Well, I feel like an asshole now.
[–]jpaul32112 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Can we include a few women in the group?
If we do that can we also change the text to be, "[Number] of these people will be abused by their partner. Don't be that partner. Find a better way to handle your relationships and change controlling or abusive behaviors."
[–]stopsayingfaggot3 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
It's a counseling service specifically for men. Of course it's only going to be men in the picture.
[–]PoopInMyHand2 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
What drives me nuts is the constant misuse of statistics. I'm taking a Crime Prevention Strategies class and we're doing the IPV section right now. I'll first off say my prof wholly admits that men are abused, there is little empirical data on it, and historically this was a 'women are the only victims' issue. He also said that women don't use physical violence as much and it's more mental abuse. The thing is there is a "model" for people/men who commit DV. 18-34, unemployed or blue collar, previous victims of abuse, etc. This of course doesn't mean that people fitting this will commit DV or that no one else can. But when trying to combat DV, you want to target those groups. It's far more likely that there is 5 guys at a bar in a poor part of town where 4 of 5 of them abuse. Putting signs like this up at random that throw out statistics and mis-representations do nothing for all sides.
But its worse than that. All the studies that I've seen that asks the same questions of men and women gets the same result. Here's a paper that also talks about various other studies, but dont assume this is some kind of anomaly.
[–]PanoramicEgo2 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I'm sorry, but did anyone else notice 'gay' written on the shirt?
[–]Chairyou22 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
So is anyone going to call the number and protest this ad? Get them to change it to something less offense? I would but long distance and the call would surely be long.
Download a Voip program (like Skype). Long distance for me is less than 2 cents a minute.
I'm going to ring them up tomorrow I think.
[–]DerpMatt2 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
emailed one of the administration team. About all I can do.
[–]Estephe2 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
One of these men has a sister who was stabbed by a woman out of jealousy.
Women who are victims of violent women are treated as second class victims (to avoid embarassing the gender ideologues).
[–]buddydog8662 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Lets get the ducks opinion on this one: http://m.quickmeme.com/meme/3stl59/
[–]RPrevolution2 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Oh man, a group of men. They must be up to no good, especially if they don't look like they are
[–]jakenichols2 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
What if his partner is a man?
[–]jolly_mcfats2 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
someone needs to print some "is Abused by" stickers and go do some culture jamming.
[–]UP_BO_AT_S2 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I took it as saying that statistically speaking 1 in 5 men beat their partners. It seemed to me like it was saying domestic abuse isn't ok and you shouldn't do it.
I know it may seem like it is just male blaming but shouldn't these kind of things focus on stopping abusers from abusing rather than telling victims what do if they are abused? Isn't prevention better?
However, I agree that they definitely need to discuss female on male abuse as well as male on female abuse. Both happen and both should be stopped.
With it being a woman's shelter it is understandable they are only focusing of abused women but someone should explain the radical notion that sometimes women are romantically attracted to other women and they also become abusive to eachother.
And that women abuse men, another radical notion for a feminist.
I agree. There is way too much focus on the idea that only men beat women, not men, and that women don' beat anyone. Everyone is capable of abusing someone else.
And its nonsense that 1 in 5 men beat their parters as well.
Just as nonsensical that 1 in 3 women will be sexually assaulted in their life but that doesn't make it less true.
While it isn't ok to paint all men as rapists and wife beaters, ignoring the facts and not allowing ads targeting the perpetrators of crime instead of victims does not help anyone.
I said it was nonsense. Its not true. They obtain that figure by just widening the definition of sexual assault, and then they ignore the fact that men will also be included for the same reasons. So someone whistling at them can be defined in the same pot as rape. This is what happens if you want to get maximum female victims, you broaden your definitions, only problem is, men get covered as well. Feminists can have what they want, they can have rape and DV being just about 100% male perpetrators, but then they're going to be left with only a handful of female victims and only a handful of male perpetrators, and thats not their agenda. All the have left is to lie because reality isn't how they'd prefer it to be.
Downplaying female rape and domestic abuse is just as bad as downplaying male rape and domestic abuse. Yes, they both happen. However, it's a little overboard to call feminists liars about female rape. Female rape is a serious issue and it isn't something anyone is happy about. Being for men's rights doesn't mean you have to be against women.
However, it's a little overboard to call feminists liars about female rape.
They are absolutely lying. They will say 1 in 3 women are sexually assaulted and then equate those figures with rape, it is a complete lie when you find out what they define as sexual assault and how they obtain those figures. In many of the methods they dont care if the women even considers herself a rape victim. They'll ask questions such as, did you have sex when you were intoxicated? If she says yes, they'll put it down as rape. Or, they'll ask something like, did you ever when having sex did you ever feel pressured? And putting that down in the rape pile along with women who were raped at knife point and beaten up. Or as I said, a women gets wolf whistled at and gets put down in the sexually assaulted pile. Its asinine. The intent is simply to get a shit load of female "victims" to get everyone shocked and appalled and throw tons of money at feminist groups.
They downplay male victims, and they overplay female victims. Thats why they water down what rape is to the point where foreplay can be rape, drunk sex can be rape (but never when its a man of course!) Why? Because foreplay and drunk sex happens all the time obviously, so that means more women they can say are being raped. Manufacturing victimhood is their agenda
Being for men's rights doesn't mean you have to be against women.
No shit. New here are you?
I got my statistics about rape from a national crime survey not a feminist group.
Unwanted sexual contact is rape...If a person has sex because they feel pressured to is also considered rape. If a person is drunk they can't legally make decisions mainly because when people are black out drunk they can't make that kind of decision.
Those definitions apply to men too. I think the reason it appears that women are raped significantly more than men because there is a ton of underreporting for men due to the way we view male rape in society.
You dont think feminist lies permeate everything? You are quite naive. That is how they get that figure. It cannot be gotten by honest means.
Unwanted sexual contact is rape.
So if I grab your butt, thats rape? No Sir.
If a person has sex because they feel pressured to is also considered rape.
If a girl doesnt want to, but then decides she will anyway, thats not rape. Coercion isnt fucking foreplay. Thats retarded. Coercion is threat of violence or something. Not foreplay. Good lord. /r/MensRights isnt for you, I can tell you that right now.
If a person is drunk they can't legally make decisions mainly because when people are black out drunk they can't make that kind of decision.
I didnt say black out drunk I said intoxicated. If you're unconscious you cant consent, obviously.
Those definitions apply to men too.
And feminists will never apply that equally or they'd end up having to ask women who claim rape some awkward questions. Did HE say yes to sex or did you just assume he wanted it? Was HE drunk when you had sex? Did YOU touch him before he said he wanted you to? Did HE say he wanted sex, before you started foreplay? You know, stuff like that.
Can you imagine an anti-rape or DV campaign that targeted women saying "WOMEN CAN STOP ABUSE" or "WOMAN CAN STOP RAPE" referring to women not beating up and assaulting their husbands, boyfriends, lesbian partners and children? Hell, even if you make the smallest suggestion of a women committing the act and not being a victim or is responsible for their safety in any way and you'll be called a victim blamer. So imagine the idea that a campaign like this exists where it says in no uncertain terms that women are absuers and rapists! Well thats the only place you'll ever see it, in your imagination.
Ok you're getting a little paranoid, no offense.
But I think you're assuming that I disagree with the way male victims of rape are treated. It isn't ok that the only domestic violence discussed is that of men against women. Women are just as able to commit acts of rape and violence against men and it isn't ok. That's why I sub to this subreddit because while I support women's rights I also support men's and don't think that men should be constantly shamed and guilted.
I think the reason it is such a touchy subject is that for too long women have been blamed for their own rapes. That isn't ok. But saying that they can prevent themselves from raping/abusing someone is perfectly ok and should be promoted.
No Im not. Where do you think they get that figure? They get it from studies that are complete nonsense. They will put women down in stats as being raped even if a woman doest consider herself a victim, but only because they asked them a vague question. That's absurd. You yourself argued foreplay is rape, or that it can be rape even if she consents to sex. This is ridiculous and makes a mockery of what rape means.
I think the reason it is such a touchy subject is that for too long women have been blamed for their own rapes.
And what you dont seem to get is that if feminists treated men as they currently treat women, they would be forced to accuse women of being rapists or start asking awkward questions such as "was he drunk too?". They would be forced to become the "victim blamers" they rail so hard against today, where you cant even suggest maybe a women should watch how much she drinks. They cannot treat men as they do women. Its not that they dont currently, they literally cannot
If a person consents to sex or foreplay than it isn't rape. But someone forcibly touching a person's genitals is sexual assault.
I would really appreciate if you would actually listen to my points instead of just pulling out the feminist parts to bash and ignoring the parts where I equate men and women as equals in this situation. If a man is drunk and a women takes advantage of that to have sex with him then I also consider that rape.
As for people "preventing their own rapes." That is utter bullshit. No, a person should not have to stay sober just to prevent being raped. It's called people should learn to listen and respect the answer.
[–]kragshot2 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
"One of these women abuses their children."
"You don't have to. "
"Find a better way to handle child rearing and change controlling or abusive behaviours. Free, confidential women's counseling service:"
Now if a poster like that was put up somewhere, it would be a shitstorm, wouldn't it?
[–]CountGraduon1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Maybe she abused him first. Let's try to balance things out a bit.
[–]jmkiii1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I agree with a lot of stuff in this sub, but it's just plain overreaction if this makes you angry.
[–]ThePigman1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
It's the guy on the far left. In fact, he's thinking about beating up his wife right now -- that's why he's laughing.
[–]gwolf1001 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Did anyone else think the middle guy looked like Nixon?
[–]nostriano1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
It's shit like this that makes me afraid. The assumption of guilt is always on the man. God forbid we make a poster with a bunch of chicks, with the phrase, "One of these women is certifiably insane and will try to kill her partner."
Because, you know, male privilege and all that...
[–]Defengar1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
The guy in the middle is clearly Elliot Stabler from Law and Order: SVU, so that counts him out...
[–]salient_punt1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Nope. All cops are wife beaters. Don't you real?
[–]JohannFriedl1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Definitely the one on the right
[–]Suitecake1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Dude on the right. Calling it.
[–]Electroverted1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
It's definitely the guy who rolls up his sleeves. He looks the most intoxicated too. He will definitely go home and abuse his partner.
[–]BUTTEFFINSTINK1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I call the guy in orange... He's not showing as much emotion as the others
[–]Swift3lade1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
While we are stereo typing, why not hang a picture of some black men around a table and say the same thing about committing crime?
Nothing wrong with that!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9PXL7-WsLQ
[–]silverionmox1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Next week: a poster with five black guys, and the text: "one of these five is a mugger".
[–]Bobsutan1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I'd like to see a response activism movement where people put related stickers or posters over or next to those types of ads so to give them context. For example, in the case of the picture this thread is about a good response would be a sticker you could put over it saying "and 1-2 of those men are abused by their partner. Men, if you are abused call ........."
[–]CaptainCooksCat1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
The Italian one.
[–]AndrewSZ111 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
intolerable.
[–]blueoak91 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
And two of them are being abused by their wives. and you'll get either of them to admit it to you with the attitude that poster is displaying.
[–]Octagonecologyst1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Clearly the asian dude. He looks shady as fuck (No racist).
[–]TheLoopOfKarma1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
is that Marc Maron?
[–]vaselinepete0 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Jokes aside, I see nothing wrong with this.
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[–]WhamBamMaam1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–][deleted]2 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]clone12053 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–][deleted]1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]clone12051 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]theskepticalidealist2 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]friestogo2 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]EvilPundit1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]DinosBiggestFan-2 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–][deleted]0 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]DinosBiggestFan2 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–][deleted]1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]DinosBiggestFan2 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–][deleted]3 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]DinosBiggestFan1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–][deleted]2 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]DinosBiggestFan1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]theskepticalidealist0 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]DinosBiggestFan1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]theskepticalidealist1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]DinosBiggestFan1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–][deleted]7 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]theskepticalidealist9 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]benshere3 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–][deleted]6 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]benshere4 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–][deleted]6 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]benshere2 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–][deleted]6 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]benshere2 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–][deleted]5 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]benshere1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–][deleted]2 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]benshere1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–][deleted]2 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]theskepticalidealist2 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–][deleted]1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]theskepticalidealist3 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–][deleted]1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]theskepticalidealist2 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–][deleted]1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]theskepticalidealist2 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]Questionable_Concept-1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]benshere1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]theskepticalidealist1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]EvilPundit1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]theskepticalidealist0 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]theskepticalidealist1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]jenniferinalaska15 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]fearlessducttaper3 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]AnAdultWoman2 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]FAN_ROTOM_IS_SCARY14 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]AnAdultWoman6 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]ThePigman5 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]seriesoftubesguy-3 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]FAN_ROTOM_IS_SCARY6 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]seriesoftubesguy2 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]francis_hunter_brosh5 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]vortex302 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]FAN_ROTOM_IS_SCARY1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]seriesoftubesguy-1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]FAN_ROTOM_IS_SCARY1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]Sazura2 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]Windex0072 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]RPrevolution1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]yunolisten1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]hellohaley1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]MiniMosher0 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]LadyOlduvai1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]Sand_Shepherd73 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]kupfernikel41 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]Sand_Shepherd2 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]nevyan-chail12 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]seriesoftubesguy0 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]kupfernikel15 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]illegal1amigo3 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–][deleted]2 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]rogersmith254 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]Arcnsparc54 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]Valens21 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]InNomine24 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]hounvs-1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]Ashanmaril1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]MinimaL_SC1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]yourotherusername1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]Planner_Hammish1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]Arcnsparc7 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]Not_A_Dinosaur37 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]Brainzz12 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]Broke_stupid_lonely11 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–][deleted]1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–][deleted]7 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]raynman3725 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]dalsgaard9 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]itsnotlupus1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]dalsgaard0 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]theskepticalidealist-1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]EvilPundit-1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]dalsgaard22 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]DinosBiggestFan2 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]disposable-identity1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]dalsgaard1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]disposable-identity2 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]dalsgaard1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]disposable-identity2 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]darth_redemption19 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–][deleted]11 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]TBoneTheOriginal5 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]darth_redemption3 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]maybesane14 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–][deleted]11 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–][deleted]5 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]Harddaysnight19905 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]inyouraeroplane1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]TheoreticalFunk8 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]theskepticalidealist1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]TheoreticalFunk1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]theskepticalidealist1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]ichlibejuice6 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]CaptainEZ6 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]theskepticalidealist2 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]Joseph_Broebbels6 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]Rationalization5 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]AnUnchartedIsland1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]iheartbakon1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]ObsidianOverlord4 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]atlasdependent3 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]yourotherusername2 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]amemebyanyothername3 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]bgmrk3 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]Jiral3 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]Planner_Hammish8 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]theskepticalidealist1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]Planner_Hammish1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]Sharkictus3 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]EvilPundit1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]Sharkictus1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]MinimaL_SC3 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]rottingchrist3 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]MinimaL_SC4 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]rottingchrist6 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]MinimaL_SC-3 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]clone12056 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]MinimaL_SC-1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]clone12052 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]theskepticalidealist3 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]MinimaL_SC-1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]theskepticalidealist2 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]MinimaL_SC0 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]theskepticalidealist3 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]rottingchrist0 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]MinimaL_SC0 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]theskepticalidealist1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]rottingchrist0 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]theskepticalidealist3 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]MinimaL_SC0 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]theskepticalidealist3 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]circuitology3 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]clone12051 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]theskepticalidealist1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]direwolfed2 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]Planner_Hammish7 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]direwolfed2 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]Greyfeld2 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]UP_BO_AT_S1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]Greyfeld1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]UP_BO_AT_S0 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]Greyfeld1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]UP_BO_AT_S1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]Greyfeld1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]UP_BO_AT_S1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]Greyfeld1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]UP_BO_AT_S1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]jpaul32112 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]stopsayingfaggot3 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]PoopInMyHand2 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]theskepticalidealist1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]PanoramicEgo2 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]Chairyou22 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]LadyOlduvai1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]DerpMatt2 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]Estephe2 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]buddydog8662 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]RPrevolution2 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]jakenichols2 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]jolly_mcfats2 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]UP_BO_AT_S2 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]clone12051 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]theskepticalidealist1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]UP_BO_AT_S1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]theskepticalidealist1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]UP_BO_AT_S1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]theskepticalidealist1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]UP_BO_AT_S1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]theskepticalidealist1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]UP_BO_AT_S1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]theskepticalidealist1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]UP_BO_AT_S1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]theskepticalidealist1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]UP_BO_AT_S1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]kragshot2 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]CountGraduon1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]jmkiii1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]ThePigman1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]gwolf1001 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]nostriano1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]Defengar1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]salient_punt1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]JohannFriedl1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]Suitecake1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]Electroverted1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]BUTTEFFINSTINK1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]Swift3lade1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–][deleted]1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]silverionmox1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]Bobsutan1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]CaptainCooksCat1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]AndrewSZ111 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]blueoak91 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]Octagonecologyst1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]TheLoopOfKarma1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]vaselinepete0 points [recovered] | Copy Link