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I find that interesting - I'm not MGTOW, but I advocate for mens rights as part of the step to gender equality.

The reason MRAs use the MRA term is because feminism is simultaneously outwardly pro gender equality, but also inwardly female centric - and also culture dominant

This was previously because women had the most pressing issues to solve on the path to equality, but now we're at a point where in my view, women have some minor problems (lack of representation in certain jobs, e.g.) while men have more pressing issues which aren't considered important enough to earn mainstream pressure (e.g. suicide and homelessness rates, domestic violence representation, treatment in criminal justice)

Because of feminism's gynocentricity and culture dominance, attempts to insert these things into mainstream feminist discourse tends to fail. Unfortunately the majority just don't care enough, so the only productive route is a separate movement with specialised goals - That's why IMO the term is needed separate to feminism

[–]dmt_dave3 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Interesting point, frankly I won’t associate with MRA because I think a lot of the culture is super toxic. Frankly the rape issue is still a major thing I care abt and I think is often ignored. Men get raped too but usually by other men. I also think that the lack of representation isn’t as minor as you think.

I get this is gonna get me shit but it’s genuinely crazy we haven’t had a female president. As an avid history fan I have come to learn of consistent pushes by women to attain more representation and work when there is none. To the same end there’s men acting as if this rebellion is oppression against men. In a way, it is, more specifically it’s a push against a society which causes unfair standards on men and unfair lack of standards on women.

Quite honestly, women will never be as much as people want them to be if they don’t have the power to be. I understand it’s easy to call them lazy from a higher position in life, but frankly you have to accept it IS a higher and easier position in life. As a man you will have more work and respect for doing the same things your female counterpart does.

[–]UddersMakeMeShudder3 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

There's certainly a lot of truth to what you've said. Especially re. The toxic aspects of the MRA scene - I think the problem with a lot of these movements is that they tend to attract damaged men, who have a tendency to convert that pain into anger. I guess helping men like that is one of the biggest goals for these groups to achieve

As somebody from the UK I can agree it's crazy the US has still never seen a female president - Another thing that really surprises me is that the two female PMs we've had, Thatcher and May, have both been conservative. Meanwhile the usual left wing group, Labour, have just turned up the chance to elect one of a number of female candidates to head the party up in favour of another man. The whole thing is really weird to me since I'd assume the Left would be the ones supporting and uplifting female candidates

But then if you look at the number of women becoming politicians, CEOs etc., while the number is growing, there's still far fewer than men. I don't think that's fully the fault of the system - definitely used to be more - but one thing I've noticed while studying Law is that a significant number of men I knew were aiming for jobs in London and nearly none (1 of maybe 20 that I knew) of the women wanted London legal work.

From what they said to me, most of them wanted a better work life balance than a high ranking Partnership position or a highly paid London firm would allow. The other men didn't seem to mind that theyd spend their lives at work, so maybe there's something to the difference between what the genders want on average. What the source that comes from is I guess what we should be looking for, and whether that's something we should aim to change

[–]dmt_dave2 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Overall, while it’s super simplified and probably useless to say, it’s not a men or women issue, it’s a societal one. Throughout history different women have influenced society in major or minor ways along side the men. A major theme is a simultaneous push to integrate women into the upper echelon of the work force and a pull away at the same time due to what I perceive as insecurity.

And I think it’s important to think about this whole argument about girls being able to make a 6 figure wage with something like only fans. This may or may not be true, I’m not gonna bother to look it up. Let’s assume it is, I don’t actually see a problem with this. It’s simply a progression of prostitution which in of itself, if some legally and safely is shown to be good. Genuinely I think a lot of incels or even j angry men could benefit from a couple sessions with a prostitute.

Now there is another side to this coin, if there’s always a market for female objectification, females will always be objectified. I think what the reaction of this sub has shown to lack of rules though is it doesn’t matter what women do, they’ll get angry. I still think we can have prostitution without chalking all women up to sex beings primarily as this is more a reflection of the repressed men that feel like they’re, as you said unwanted; damaged.

Let me add one thing, it’s just been good to have an open and respectful talk about this. The male to female ratio on Reddit is super small because of the toxicity and I think if we had more open and respectful discussion we’d see there’s a lot more in common than apart. Those are j my two cents anyway, have a lovely day my guy.

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Chastity is rewarding and actually enables growth. The popular culture is a total sham.

Shyness is natural and it should not be frowned upon. Encouraging behaviour through coercion is clearly not being true to oneself and will likely cause anguish in the event of a backfire. Shyness is a trait which almost everybody will shed by their late twenties.

There is nothing to gain from having sex and forming relationships, regardless of gender. Encouraging the loss of virginity is madness. Women abide by the popular culture without question because, like the mindless quip you repeat, "they don't know any better". Women bring each other down. They lack courage to challenge the status quo directed to them. They only admit fault much later in life, hence "grandma" is the typical figure with the confidence and belief to impart knowledge and advice.

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From Married Red Pill FAQ

Isn’t TRP against marriage?

Our goal is to help newly unplugging men trapped in loveless, unhappy, low-sex marriages. By becoming stronger and more assertive men, they can bring a lot of happiness to their marriage and LTRs. We encourage men to grow in those areas before reaching the point to "next that bitch." MRP was specifically created so that married, committed men could have a place to discuss marital issues without the younger crowd immediately howling: "NEEEXXXXT!"

Once you are married, especially if you have a family, it is not so easy to "Next" your wife. So yes, Red Pill is against marriage because of the way it works in modern society. However, in MRP we are already married. We don't support modern marriage, but we detest divorce even more. However, we no longer fear it.

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This couldn't be further from the truth. My biggest complaint when I dated is that it's become the other way around. Boys and men are expected to be pawns to women. Men are supposed to march forward, to their deaths, either by overworking themselves to an early grave or die defending more "important things" (Ie, property, women (the queen) the country and so on.

If a guy loves a woman, he better be ready to sacrifice for her, no matter how bad it is for him. It's the reason MGTOW is hated so much; how dare he walk away from the plantation.

You may have this altered perception cause you've never dated before, but women almost always get sacrificial, selfless love from men in a relationship, yet they still treat their bf like garbage. Being kind to women will just result in them cheating on you.

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Reality, most couples both work. He puts in a few more hours at work, she puts in way more hours cleaning and child care This study is from Korea “married men in dual-income families spent 546.8 minutes at their workplace, or 1.3 times more than women, who spend 412.4 minutes.

But after work on weekdays, the wives spent 129.5 minutes on household chores a day, or 7.4 times more than the husbands who spent 17.4 minutes. For childcare, women spent 52.2 minutes, 3.5 times more than men's 14.9 minutes during weekdays.”

Couples usually figure this out to be (hopefully) fair, but when you add up work, child care and housework, women work more.

If you want a stay at home wife and kids, be ready to have a really great job or work a whole lot more overtime than an hour or two.

As far as dying on the job? 3.5 per 100,000 full-time equivalent workers. Not statistically relevant.

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[–]badgersonice1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

You're trying to make it sound like the men sat on their asses all day while the women slaved away.

No, sitting on their asses all day while their spouses slaved away is how you portrayed women, and I corrected your silly, self-pitying lies.

Men worked a lot on farms too, it was a team effort. Only an idiot would think men or women ran the farm solo while supporting a “useless” (your word) partner. Which is exactly what you argued.

But glad you actually can actually acknowledge that you were wrong to call women “useless”, and that I am right.

Btw nice attempt to try and shame me for wanting good looking women.

I didn’t say anything about you wanting good-looking women. I said you obviously desired weak and useless women, because they are apparently the only women you acknowledge exist. Or now that you acknowledge the existence of competent women, you just assume they’re all ugly... so again, this is all about your weird prejudice where you can only see women as beautiful if they are “useless” according to your personal definitions.

[–]Siam-GuyThe Ultimate Crimson Pill1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

Notice all the things women did was to support and help men. Not produce on their own shit and products.

NotAll as women that are both beautiful and pull their weight existed and still exist but overall for all the work those women do there are way more thots that just take and then laugh at you for expecting anything. That is for today

Going back in time, any woman that said I will sit on my ass and do nothing either got an asswhooping or was kicked out. There was no government that said "Give her half your shit for leaving" so women behaved. It was the MAN's farm not their's farm but his.

But overall women are a net drain and require investment for both them and the kids and for that men need authority over their investment. Why would you pay for kids that are not yours. You shouldn't. Women objetively are in net useless. They can be delightful to have around when properly trained and you have a good patriarchal structure around but overall the only thing they produce are kids which are an expensive investment and as a man I would like to know that those kids are mine and that they can't be taken away by "Im not happy wah".

Show me the matriarchal societies that created anything. Show me the women in the jungle that survived alone. Show me the female temples were order was kept.

My point is that women are inconsequential on their own. They will die without men. They will follow wherever men lead.

Idealy a net taxpayer system would be best but 80% of the population is useless so the system is fucked.

[–]badgersonice1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Women objetively are in net useless.

Yeah, I know you think this, you’re just also wrong. I don’t care about your vomit-inducing whining about “training” women to be your slaves 🤮 — if you can’t acknowledge any of the good women have contributed to the world, then you don’t have to interact with women. It’s that easy.

Since you think women are just useless, then seriously just go your own way already. Women don’t want to be with a man who can’t appreciate anything about her and insults her constantly any more than you would want to be with a bitch woman who doesn’t appreciate him and insults him constantly. Because seriously, you sound exactly like the stereotypical nagging bitch wife who calls her husband useless and worthless— I’d tell her to simply avoid men too.

It really is better for everyone and all of society as a whole if you just keep away from the people you hate.

[–]Siam-GuyThe Ultimate Crimson Pill0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

My problem is not with women, it's with cucks and simps. They enable all the bad choices in women. The chads don't give a fuck and even they have been subjected to the whole "respect wahmen" bullshit and enable this shit. 88% of men think women have enough rights and around 46% think they need more rights.

These men are the cause of all the problems in society. I said it before women follow where men lead. These men have given these emotional children the wheel of society and you see the results:

76% percent out of wedlock births that lead to black people commiting 50% of the homicides despite being 13% of the population

A welfare state so large it eats 30% of the economy so everyone is getting taxed at 30% making everything more expensive

The giant police state with a lot of bullshit laws like jaywalking and insuring every component of everything

Family courts

Do I need to go on? All this shit was caused by weak men. Slaves? You said it not me. Do parents train kids to become responsible adults? So what is the problem with training?

"Vomit-inducing" now I am 200% sure you are a woman and don't give a fuck about any of the facts I listed. The reason I use such harsh language is because I hope one simp or cuck reads this, takes the rose colored glasses and realises that putting anything especially women on pedestal will make you a slave.

I can appreciate a dog for being a dog. Loyal, barks sometimes shits on the carpet.

I can appreciate a turbofan for powering a massive aircraft and eats 1 gallon per mile.

I can appreciate a woman for giving children, being nice to look at, and generaly just being there. I won't expect a woman to go to war, build me a house or make a turbofan engine in a giant factory in record time. I know what they are capable of and what makes them happy because it's what any animal wants including me.

Just like I appreciate something doesn't mean I wont take action when it fucks up.

Hating something is caring. I don't care.

You are painting me like I hate women for just existing. Stop strawmaning everything I said and actually try to address my points.

Women's nature being unleashed on society is just another symptom of the real issue. PEOPLE WHO HAVE NO SKIN IN THE GAME DECIDING THE FATE OF EVERYONE BECAUSE THEY WANT FREE SHIT

[–]badgersonice2 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]badgersonice1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Omg, you’re so mad you’re desperately fishing through my comment history for ammunition? Haha, so you are mad Chad won’t fuck you! Haha, calling me a slut and ugly won’t make Chad want you, you know!

I can watch how men treat ugly women without having to be a hideous troll myself— I have eyes and ears. Im not ugly myself, just not blisteringly hot either. I’d say I’m pretty average, honestly. And that was really quite a turn around from calling me a slut to calling me ugly. Flip flopper.

How do you know a woman is pissed: she says she ain't gonna fuck you!!!

Not pissed, haha, you’re just projecting your own feelings on me now. The way you know a pathetic man is pissed is when he calls you a slut. Or ugly. So you must be practically enraged to call me both.

A man who gets laid regularly doesn’t need to sooth a fragile ego by saying women are inferior, and he doesn’t call low-n women sluts like a complete dweeb.

I was just letting you know that sex with me isn’t on the table, so you can stop desperately fishing for validation in this conversation. I know the only kind of “respect” you want from a woman is a dick sucking, and I’m just completely uninterested in granting you any kind of respect. I doubt any woman would if she’d witnessed your little tantrum here.

[–]Siam-Guy1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]badgersonice1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I didn't imply you're an incel, I implied you're a woman-hater. But you do sound like an incel with your bizarre language choices. No one but bitter incels talks about "simps" and "cucks" or whines about how it's so sad men can't train women with "an asswhoping" anymore. That's the way bitter, selfish men talk, not confident successful men. I didn't call you an incel, but you seem to want to be called one, and by all means, you can call yourself whatever you want.

And when I say "successful men", by the way, I'm referring to the men who are successful in many parts of life, not just in fucking. You know, the kind of men who don't whine that women aren't house-pets or throw childish tantrums where they insult others with shitty names, then start crying when the person insults them back.

But yeah, of course I don't care about your ridiculous theory that the world is terrible because men are just too nice and should beat women or whatever. Seriously, that narrative is just transparent autofellation-- and normal men's spines really aren't that flexible.

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I actually go to church every Sunday. I'm pretty sure that if none of the women I've met there are capable of being faithful, then it's just not possible. All of the happy, married couples I've met have said they met in church, or through church, or through Christian friends. All of the women I've (casually) been with are women I've met in person, and I only met one of them in a place where you'd expect to find unfaithful women anyway (a club). I live in the bible belt, in a pretty conservative area full of Christians. The closest city is 30 minutes away from me, so logistically speaking, clubs and bars aren't really a good option for meeting potential LTRs anyway. By all estimates, I should be in the perfect area to find faithful women, but unfortunately, AWALT seems to be the case here too.

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Sat next to him on a bus. He was from the country I was visiting. I just made small talk like "I'm going there for X, what neighborhood do you recommend". Forgot about him. Then he added me on Facebook and invited me to hang out. I was happy to make a friend in that country so I went. Or maybe I wasn't and he pressured me. I did change my plans for him because he needed it to be right then (ie. while his parents weren't home). I was not "woke" to the reality of men only wanting to fuck women, especially this one. I eventually realized he was an incel with no female friends and few male friends that he kept for weed contacts. I don't think he's ever addressed a woman as a human being. He definitely just saw me as a ticket to sex. I was thinking I would meet his family and experience local culture and home cooking, I got there his family was nowhere and he wanted to drink. I still dated him because I'm just passive... I don't get mad when things aren't meeting my expectations, I just roll with it.

[–]sharksk8r1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago* (9 children) | Copy Link

> Me: in med school, volunteers, is in a global health committee, does neurology research, runs, dances, does to the gym, cycles, plays tennis, goes to yoga, likes to travel, hike, camp, is into mountaineering, is learning a third and fourth langues.

without wanting to get too chummy, i would not mind dating you at all. some people consider me a nerd, using that word in an endearing sense to say they think i'm intelligent. they tell me to go for women who are also intelligent and 'nerdy'. my counter to that is that intelligent women will still date losers they find outwardly attractive and that disappoints me more because i expect that shit from the average woman, not from women i deem to be intelligent. you aren't the first intelligent woman dating losers and you won't be the last.

EDIT: if you downvote without replying, it means ur mom gay

[–]Sewud0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago* (8 children) | Copy Link

They were not physically attractive. It's more about passivity... I just date the first guy who makes a move on me. And I think I actually avoid physically attractive men.

For example, before meeting that loser, I went on a date with a physically attractive resident. It was kind of a mistake! I thought from his photo he was 5'7 and nerdy-looking. I get there he's 6'2 Chad. (He just happened to pose next to a deceptively large surfboard.) I was way too intimidated. It went okay, but I was thinking "that guy is out of my league, NEXT". Didn't help that he was older by 5 years. I didn't know that men like younger women, I just felt not good enough. Anyway, I stayed passive, as I usually do. He would text me "hey I've been busy with work, we should get dinner some time" and I would say "I would love to" and this happened a few times and we never picked a date and after a month he stopped texting. So I was passive and nothing happened.

Then with the loser, I met him and he was so pushy that even though I was passive, it happened? Like he was pushy to meet me and set a date. And once he got drinking he made a move to kiss me.

But I don't know. Maybe I was even more passive with the physically attractive guy because I thought he was out of my league? I never said "yeah, when are you free? Let's pick a date, I'm free this weekend". I was just like "haha, yeah". Maybe I avoided him even? It's hard to explain, but he was too high SMV. Sometimes a dumb/boring attractive guy isn't that intimating, but he was hot AND worldly/awesome. Actually maybe by other people's standards he'd be nerdy, but for me he was like a celebrity. But I don't know. I'm so passive, all he had to do was invite me to his place and I would have gone and if he made a move on me it would have been like what happened with the loser. I accepted all invitations and moves on me. But he didn't do it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]Sewud0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

It's leaving it up to fate because it can be random whom I meet and who makes a move on me. It's usually not 100% random, but meeting someone on the bus was as random it gets.

But at the same time, the guy who wasn't pushy probably was out of my league, thus why he was only mildly interested in seeing me again, without pushing for a date. Or maybe he is a semi passive guy who is used to girls making plans. Or maybe he sunk into a painful social death as residency swallowed 100 hours of his week. I was not thinking about that. I was just "going along". He would say "hey how are you" and I would be like "hey how have you been" and he would say "I'm so busy, I never sleep". I think I didn't understand how insanely busy he was. I should have had more empathy and tried to understand his schedule.

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that I'm not sure if pushiness is a function of how much the guy likes you, his personality or his availability. If it's the former, then it's not a bad strategy to be passive. If it's the former then it's probably a mistake to be passive.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

> But at the same time, the guy who wasn't pushy probably was out of my league, thus why he was only mildly interested in seeing me again, without pushing for a date. Or maybe he is a semi passive guy who is used to girls making plans. Or maybe he sunk into a painful social death as residency swallowed 100 hours of his week. I was not thinking about that. I was just "going along". He would say "hey how are you" and I would be like "hey how have you been" and he would say "I'm so busy, I never sleep". I think I didn't understand how insanely busy he was. I should have had more empathy and tried to understand his schedule.

oh man, you overthink so much

> Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that I'm not sure if pushiness is a function of how much the guy likes you, his personality or his availability. If it's the former, then it's not a bad strategy to be passive. If it's the former then it's probably a mistake to be passive.

and then Ms. Renaissance Woman (you, in case that is not clear) will end up with a deadbeat or someone who is abusive or both. i'm seriously worried about you

[–]Sewud0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Sewud1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Oh no I meant a real dating website like OkCupid, or even Tinder. I am not into "meeting people in online communities". I prefer people in real life, I just mean with a dating website it gives access to interesting local singles. It works really well to find high quality people. But sadly I met a guy on a bus and went with that instead, which was stupid. If I picked someone on the dating website he would have been quality (ex: good job, good looks, no drugs). The guy on the bus was ugly, shitty job, smoked weed. It's because in real life you just talk to the person, you don't pick them "on paper". To put it another way, if the guy from the bus messaged me on a dating website, I would have ignored him (unless he faked his profile to look outdoorsy and lied about his smoking and managed to fake a personality). He probably would not have messaged me because my profile was outdoorsy, or he would have sent only "hey" to me and hundreds of girls and I would have ignored him in favor of guys who took the time to write a message. That was my selection process in online dating: only respond to guys who write a short paragraph. It works really well, all the guys were great. The guy I met on the bus is not the kind of guy who would be able to write a thoughtful message to a girl on a dating website. He would just say "what r u up to" and he would get ignored. In real life it just happened because he saw an opening and went for it.

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Average PPD Male

Comments

NotAll as women that are both beautiful and pull their weight existed and still exist but overall for all the work those women do there are way more thots that just take and then laugh at you for expecting anything. That is for today

Title	Average PPD Male
Author	Justanuglygirl22
Upvotes	615
Comments	378
Date	May 9, 2020 1:18 AM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/gg5zl0/average_ppd_male/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/average-ppd-male.662252 https://theredarchive.com/post/662252