Being Emotionally Available and a Good Communicator is Reduces the Chance for Sustained Attraction for Men Seeking a Relationship.

figuringLifeIsGood · 2023-06-09T16:34:40+00:00

they’re insecure and/or have attachment issues. you’re vetting these women based on initial attraction and what they choose to tell you. most normal human beings who aren’t totally messed up aren’t going to say “lol btw i need male validation because my parents ignored me” or “hahaha i was beat and abandoned as a child”

KirthWGersen · 2023-06-09T10:15:33+00:00

If something comes too easily it is hard to value it. So women do tend to appreciate a man who is hard to get.

My experience is that of a man who has always been hard to get, as I have never been emotionally needy or rushed into commitment. Yet, at the same time, I find it easy to develop closeness and intimacy quickly. So I am emotionally available, but not available for commitment (as I am emotionally available to other women at the same time). I don't play games like waiting to text, but I often text late simply because I am doing things... It definitely leaves women intrigued and keen.

On the other hand, I have observed that when men commit early (because it is in their nature), all too many women see that as a sign of weakness and try to shift the terms of the relationship so they are dominant over the man. Then their attraction to him wanes even as he does more for her.

Human sexuality and relationships are a curious mix of things. It is not that women or men are good or bad, so much as that we are driven by desires we don't tend to consciously comprehend and often act against our own interests without realising it.

KayRay1994 · 2023-06-09T14:11:34+00:00

A large part of it is knowing when to be emotionally available - ie. the first time you sleep together probably isn’t the right time cause it will make you come off as clingy, especially since, frankly, most people have developed unhealthy attachment styles and don’t even know it (a lot of what you’re describing sounds like the basic avoidant/anxious dance) - what I find usually works is becoming more emotionally available with time, in other words - maybe don’t go towards the extreme of ghosting for her to get back to you cause that can border on manipulation, but maybe hold off on the opening up till after a sense of emotional trust is established.

What I found also works is let her emotionally open up first (it won’t be as clear or obvious as “hey let’s get serious” but she’ll start hinting it), and you kinda wanna let her feel like she’s trusting you before the bigger questions come in/ larger symbols of trust make their way - thing is with being emotionally unavailable is that it gives off the illusion of strength, stoicism and control (again, major sign that so many people are mentally not healthy), but also at one point if you remain emotionally unavailable, it will kill a relationship because eventually, the illusion will ware off.

No-Rough-7390 · 2023-06-09T10:25:32+00:00

Power dynamics 101. The person who has the most power in any relationship is the one who needs the other the least. Additionally, showing all of your cards right away not only diminishes any mystery for her, but also (given the ick factor level being so subjective for many women) can put off the vibe you are clingy.

I truly believe most women don’t know what they want (not as a whole, at least, and not without a bunch of caveats that are unclear to anyone except for them) and have no clue why what works on them works on them until it actually happens to them. That’s why a lot of this “emotionally available” shit is really projecting what they feel they are as a virtue onto someone else. They want you emotionally available for them, not for you. And that really tells you all you need to know about it.

Stop dichotomizing things into a good versus bad or nice vs fuckboy categorization and just focus on what works and why. When it works, it means it’s working for both you and her. Stick with that. Makes shit less complicated. And don’t try to moralize it. It’s not why we are here.

ThisBoringLife · 2023-06-09T14:45:22+00:00

The irony that the best strategy to get into a serious relationship is to embody the mindset that the last thing you want is a relationship.

I've had an older coworker tell me something similar in the past, and even seen it in media, so it's a bit of a stereotype.

I never was able to process it in my head, however. To be attractive to women, you have to act like you don't really care.

If you actually don't, then that doesn't work. But if you care too much, it's a turn off. It's that weird sweet spot I never got.

thennicke · 2023-06-09T09:50:21+00:00

Who knows. Women differ a lot and have different views when it comes to approaching relationships. My girlfriend adores my emotional availability, because that's what was modeled to her in her relationship with her parents, and her parents' relationship with each other. On the other hand my hot female Chinese colleague can't stand men who want any kind of emotional connection whatsoever, and gets rid of them at the first opportunity. She told me she "doesn't believe in unconditionality" in romantic settings. Surprise surprise, her parents are very distant with her, so I suspect she's had that kind of relationship modeled to her and learned from it.

thetruthishere_ · 2023-06-09T12:15:45+00:00

Im betting most of those women coming back for more when you acted avoidant were anxious attached/fixers.

I would not be coming back to a man that ghosted me...

DapperDan1929 · 2023-06-09T12:34:07+00:00

Agreed. Quit trying in 2020 due to the weirdness of it all. I totally agree with your assessment

Epiphanic_Eros · 2023-06-09T18:13:17+00:00

It’s an American thing, in part. But also, it might well be that you’re getting too serious, too fast. Women generally want someone who’s emotionally vulnerable, but they want it to come from centered strength, not from neediness.

Zadacat · 2023-06-09T11:02:02+00:00

I think it is a pretty good filter though. If you are truly like that, wanting good intention etc. And many women are put off by it, then they’re not for you and not worth your time. But if someone sticks, you know you have found a good one

Gtedx · 2023-06-09T11:16:26+00:00

Women want to earn a mans affection. They don’t want a man who gives his commitment away too easily because that signals it’s low value.

Just like men don’t want women who give sex away too easily, it’s the same thing.

Gr4nd45 · 2023-06-09T09:37:12+00:00

I noticed something similar in my experience, and then that experience was further proven by watching close people interact with their SOs or dates, and then further proven by all the forum posts on the internet.

Now, idk if I can put it words well, but...

My running theory is that women want their men to... take up a higher position in the power dynamic of the relationship. To take charge, in other words.

All these actions you do - being emotional and vulnerable, showing how much you desire her approval and affection, etc. They shift the power dynamics in the relationship to her favour. And they make you look weak.

And despite all the popular media is talking about how men should be more vulnerable and emotional, in reality women are repulsed by it.

RRBeachFG2 · 2023-06-09T16:46:54+00:00

Dropping some wisdom in here today.

GlamSunCrybabyMoon · 2023-06-09T17:49:40+00:00

It reduces the chance with a woman who is emotionally avoidant herself.

colonize_mars2023 · 2023-06-09T17:54:13+00:00

Bravo! This actually sounds scarily probable state of things

plumtastic · 2023-06-09T09:35:52+00:00

I don't think it's just lack of anxiety that's the problem. You want to build tension, you want to withhold a bit, that's a sign that you're dating someone within your own league. Men are like this too, they enjoy the chase and conquest, it makes the spoils sweeter. If a woman just lays down and opens her legs is that the same as someone who you won over and now submits in the heat of passion? This is the fun stage of a relationship, not that the rest of it can't be fun, but dating especially is an opportunity for excitement, and that's the same for both genders.

One-Introduction-566 · 2023-06-09T13:39:57+00:00

It probably depends a lot on the demographics and each girl. I want something serious that could lead to marriage. Now when I date, If a guy doesn’t initiate more dates and initiate the I want a relationship talk I’m out of there. If he plays games with the texting… like either you are immature or not that into me or both. And it’s seemed to work because I’m left with marriage minded men who are actually into me and not just with me for the sex(I also don’t put out right away anyways). Doesn’t mean I won’t decide you aren’t for me though. And you can be too keen where you seem desperate

c0pk1ller · 2023-06-09T16:09:11+00:00

it creates too much certainty, which eliminates anxiety.

No, this only works on certain types of thinkers. For example when I'm friends with someone, actually close to them, I might speak to them and think about them less often because my mind is thinking they are safe and secure. I have access to enough information about them that I don't HAVE to think about them often. Otherwise my mind might be in a mode where I'm searching for the others. I'm aromantic and antinatalist. I don't really date. But I have relationships, and they often work this way. So someone being distant might be a signal that something is wrong, and therefore people are seeking you to 'fix' you. What you are seeing is sometimes called the 'nurse curse' from what I've heard about. But outside of romantic relationships that so called curse can be a power. Empathy foundationally builds the type of society humans want to be a part of.

shonenhikada · 2023-06-09T18:01:18+00:00

It's not only that, you also have to continuously display value to women by showing her that other women find you attractive and you have other options.

This is a video of an attractive man in his 30s who came from a well off family due to his father's hard work and dedication. And in the first couple of minutes, he basically says that women tend to go after men that other women want. Women are most sexual attracted when they know a guy has tons of options and can replace them. And whether you are this type of guy or not, the moment you commit fully to a girl and close off all your options, she begins to no longer see you as special and begin to lose sexual attraction towards you.

https://youtu.be/GoiO7taTR50

He goes onto say that a lot of his relationships/sex that he got from girls came about from them being aware of him dating another girl. And while he did not cheat, these girls were actively position themselves and waiting for him to become single again in order to be with him. And this type of phenomenon is not just a US thing, I remember a few years back that there was a term called "revolving men" in Findland, where guys that just got out of a relationship won't single for very long and women were actively willing to date them not long after their breakup. In contrast men who were single for a long time were basically screwed, and had to wait for women to become desperate and old for them to give them a chance; so not so different from anywhere else.

Essentially, women chase after the men who already have a harem in place or are sexual satisfied. Other men that are sexual starved continue to be sexually starved. And usually that helps female mating strategy later down the line because they use these sexually starve men for a retirement plan when their looks are degrading, the party is coming to a close and they need someone to commit to them long term.

Cjaylyle · 2023-06-09T11:18:35+00:00

Cos you’re givin it up cheap

threeman_2 · 2023-06-09T17:21:55+00:00

I haven’t read the comments as yet but prepare to be gaslit into oblivion

NataliaCaptions · 2023-06-10T04:59:39+00:00

Men dont want the redpill to be true but the redpill is true The vast majority of women functions the same

Wait for these girls to suddenly have an epiphany in their late 20s about having only dated "emotionally unavailable men" and now seeking a beta chump Like clockwork

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Diddy_1978 · 2023-06-09T10:21:24+00:00

The mind hive you mean? 😂 women are all different. It would actually be interesting to know what ages are we talking about.

AlmostKindaGreat · 2023-06-09T17:42:04+00:00

Interesting thoughts. In general I think being emotionally available is good and necessary for building a relationship, with a few caveats.

Expressing vulnerability and emotion is almost always great with women and causes a bond to form. It's also just an amazing way to feel alive and connected to others. I do it for me. I am eagerly expressive of my emotions with people whom I recently met, men and women, and though I'm just doing what I feel and not trying to "game" them or anything I find it is very endearing and gets people on my side. I continue to vividly express almost all emotions throughout a relationship. Is this being emotionally available? I think it is.

The only exception (and I know this is controversial) is expressing negative emotions to a woman in a way that suggests weakness or instability. That's just for my therapist and close guy friends. I want to express these too in my closest relationships but experience tells me I have to be careful here to sustain a relationship with a woman.

Intuitively what you mention a few times is another good exception - explicit expressions of devotion. It's safer to express these implicitly through actions (but also don't overdo this). And in this case it usually shouldn't be gifts or favors, but showing how much you enjoy her company, being fully present with her, and being vulnerable and emotionally expressive.

Specifically, I would avoid "I like you" for a long time. I think "I enjoy your company" should be fine. It's surprising that you got bad results from that. How you say it is important, obviously. I wouldn't say "I feel close to you" until we were at least exclusive with each other.

I don't like playing games, but there is probably a danger of being overly available, especially at the beginning. I haven't thought about this a lot, but if I wanted something to last long-term I'd hold back a bit (if necessary) with the number of days in a week I'm available, but put effort into making the times we are together amazing.

Relative_Bee8356 · 2023-06-09T19:41:30+00:00

I don't think this is entirely gendered. I've always gotten the most interest when I've been at my most emotionally unavailable. It's the human condition to want what seems unattainable.

If I tell men straight up, early on, "I like you and would like a relationship with you" they decide I'm clingy and lose interest. If I make it kinda clear they're just part of my rotation and I'm not really looking for anything serious, they pull out all the stops to get me to change my mind.

Gleefulpride · 2023-06-09T21:26:40+00:00

It’s the women you pick. Plain and simple. Source: I used to be this woman. Women who are not used to be treating well will be surprised why you are treating her well b/c in her mind she is a piece of shit and if you treat her as a human being than there is something wrong w you. A woman who has been treated well will expect it and treat the man well in return.

indrawls · 2023-06-09T18:57:10+00:00

I agree with your perspective. It seems to me that many women don't understand what real emotional availability looks like and they are completely freaked out when they see it. This is another area where they get the benefit of the general population thinking women are emotionally available by default. It's not true!!! Lots of times guys don't realize this until later in the relationship.

purpleunicorn888 · 2023-06-10T06:09:25+00:00

I see how you could come to this conclusion, but I think it's conflating a lot of things. Overall, if you want a real connection and relationship, don't play games. If you play games and she is only responsive to those, then she has issues she needs to work on before being emotionally ready for something serious. If you turn someone off by being real and authentic, then that will save you time by ruling them out quickly and finding someone who is right for you and what you're looking for. Good luck out there! :)

anewadult · 2023-06-10T14:23:29+00:00

It depends on the attachment style, an avoidant woman would love bomb and enjoy the attention you give her until the deactivation starts.

Anxious_Adult123 · 2023-06-09T09:36:45+00:00

Well I've had experiences both supporting as well as refuting your opinion.

A lot of female friends of mine have shared that they want a man who is emotionally available and matured with good communication skills. For modern women, they are earning by themselves. They don't need much from a male partners except for these kind of qualities.
A lot of couples from the friends circle have broken up because the guy was too emotionally immature or was not there for the woman emotionally which really tainted their relationship.

But there are few experiences that I've seen a that kinda support your POV:

Guys that I known of has less sucess in online dating as well as irl when they told they are looking for something long term. Maybe these women themselves were not looking for anything long term or they preffered to make a guy looking for something casual want them for long term as some sort of weird power play.
Women who they were texting with texted them better when it took sometime for the guy to return their texts and respond when compared to texting them immediately when they get a messages.

Again, I think the latter two are my biased views and the reason why I predominantly think you POV is not accurate.

For a modern women, she has acess to wide options of men- be it for casual sex or serious relationship. Plus they earn as much as a guy as well as they receive more assistance from institutions. So I believe modern women are looking for partners who are emotionally available partners and who are more than just a cash cow. Hence I think your POV is not accurate.

windowsfrozenshut · 2023-06-11T04:25:52+00:00

I learned this early on in life, while I was still in my teens. It was one of the first big breakthroughs I ever experienced.

There was this one girl who I had a HUGE crush on throughout high school. She would breadcrumb and string me along for a long time, most of the time never answering my calls or calling me back. I was going to leave for a week long road trip and event with some friends and was calling her the day before to talk to her before we left. This was wayyy back when we all had flip phones and couldn't leave your area code without massive roaming charges. I wanted to talk to her before I left because I was going to leave my phone at home for the trip. She never answered or called me back that day. I was talking to her friend the night before we left, and I told her friend "fuck her.. I'm done, I never want to see her or even speak to her ever again". I turned my phone off and went on my trip. Came back to fucking dozens of voice mails from the girl. Now she suddenly wanted to talk all the time, always calling me, wanted to go out on dates. I was stupid and didn't know any better, but I let her in for about a month and went back to being the dependable and respectful communicator that I am. She faded away and ended up ghosting me again. WTF.. but I leaned an important lesson.

After that, I moved in with a bunch of guys into a big party house. And I used this tactic to completely game the women that came to party. If there was one that caught my eye, I would acknowledge her presence one time and then totally ignore her for the rest of the night. I'm having a blast with my buddies and every other woman there, but I'm literally ignoring the woman I had my eye on. Not being a dick, just not acknowledging her. After a few hours when the party would wind down, I'd sneak off into my room and it would be about 5 seconds before that woman would B-line straight into my room and be all over me. Wasn't even 20 years old yet and already learned that treating them like they aren't important and ignoring them was what actually attracted them the most.

Title	Being Emotionally Available and a Good Communicator is Reduces the Chance for Sustained Attraction for Men Seeking a Relationship.
Author	Rach1943
Upvotes	64
Comments	116
Date	June 9, 2023 9:14 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/14508o0/being_emotionally_available_and_a_good/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/being-emotionally-available-and-a-good.1221685 https://theredarchive.com/post/1221685

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