There is VAST chasm between the amount effort required to secure a partner that is reasonable for a healthy realtionship, between men and women.

DerayRevan · 2023-06-18T20:37:40+00:00

It all comes back to:

men being horny

Therefore makes women more selective

lonelyspaceboy1 · 2023-06-18T19:59:52+00:00

Tbh at this point it feels like this problem only really exists on online spaces (social media and dating apps) I’m an engineer, I make make six figures, am fit, etc, and as far as I see from women who are engineers who are in my company and match my salary/lifestyle all are basically dating engineers aswell basically within comparable situations (some level of exposure bias). The problems u describe feels like it only exist on dating apps and those apps have progressively become more skewed in favour of women purely because of the gender ratio on those apps (the ratio for men to women is like 7:3 or 8:2 now).

Epiphanic_Eros · 2023-06-19T12:42:31+00:00

No kidding — there’s way, WAY more decent and competent, emotionally stable women in the world.

cromulent_weasel · 2023-06-18T21:07:20+00:00

I have no idea whether the gendered generalisations OP makes are valid for young people.

But I can categorically state that it's basically complete rubbish for people in the 40+ group.

My current relationship, she approached me initially, and while I would say we're definitely trying to maintain equality in our relationship, probably there's a slight asymmetry of effort on her side.

a fit guy making 6 figs who is of average height is going to be much, much lower on the "dating value" realm to a fit women making 6 figs.

So, there's a hidden assumption in here. When a couple have kids, and one parent becomes stay at home, who gives up their job? Disproportionately it's the mother who does that. So 'man making 6 figures' and 'woman making 6 figures' is kinda valid if you are talking about non-parents, but a single mother making 6 figures is basically a unicorn. That's not a reasonable expectation to have.

picture a guy who is fit, is average height, has an engineer job, and is generally confident/intresting.

If you replace fit with strong, that's probably me.

now picture a women who is fit - she puts makeup on and a form fitting dress

No thank you, that's not who I am looking for, or rather it's far down the list of traits I want in a partner. I want someone who is kind, smart, into me, has similar attitudes regarding kids, spending money, sex etc etc. Those things are all FAR more important to me in terms of finding a partner I am compatible with.

Pictures on social media are basically all lies. Don't believe them, OR think that visual media really are a good substitute for a real relationship in any way.

you also find out she has some charm/makes good money and owns her own place

Sure, money / home ownership is nice, but in the 'divorced with kids' dating pool I am in, EVERYBODY is fucked financially to a certain extent.

I feel women completely do not recognize this vast chasm and the privilage it provides, and is a huge reason why a lot of men get frustrated/bitter towards the dating situation.

Sure, and there's an element of truth in that. But men who are assailed by this thought weasel are being obtuse and intentionally blind to some of the downsides that women face in dating. Imagine if instead of women, men were dating grizzly bears. And every second bear you dated kept making persistent suggestions that the two of you take a stroll in the woods to 'get comfortable' after dinner. What's not to like about that? Those bears are probably perfect gentlemen and will respect your no.

sexualdeskfan · 2023-06-18T21:36:31+00:00

These overly whiny “effort” posts are just out of touch with reality and always overstate how much effort a man has to put into being attractive and minimises women’s efforts to look attractive to a level that makes me think you have never spent any time with women.

If you compared my effort expended to be/stay attractive with my wife’s she would win by a landslide. I don’t meticulously take care of every little part of my body (nails, hair, skin etc) like she does, I haven’t had my body hair lasered off, I don’t spend half an hour a day applying different serums, moisturisers and masks to my skin, I don’t spend hundreds of dollars on getting my hair done and then on top of that she diets harder than me and works out almost as much.

How out of touch with reality/women do you have to be to think that all women are just 20lbs and slapping on some makeup away from being attractive.

wtknight · 2023-06-18T20:06:27+00:00

Yet most men, and especially older men, are having sex. Do you really think that these men are putting in a lot more effort than the men who are not having sex, or are that much better than the men who are not having sex?

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dyngladfel · 2023-06-19T18:45:55+00:00

"Throw on some make up" see you lost me there. You seen uninformed about the realities of performing femininity; the cost, the skill, the practice etc. You may not see the difference but you would know the difference.

The 6 figures thing is a v American thing. Income isn't something my girlfriends have ever discussed about potential partners in a serious way at all, and I don't think that's unusual. Sure, you want someone financially stable, but I think that's mutual.

A well dressed, good looking man with good social skills and a job absolutely would clean up.

FlyV89 · 2023-06-19T20:21:42+00:00

I'm what dudes here would call a Chad and while I've dated some women who were broke, I've mainly dated a long range of professional women who made good money and, on top of that, were in awesome shape and had intresting personalities.

And when I say "a long range of women" I mean it, in all aspects, like across race, income, nationality, you name it. I can recall a quite hot black girl from Dominican R. who owned a night club (her father was quite wealthy), an spaniard fashion designer who worked for Zara Inc., a quite well off norwegian cougar who worked for an oil industry, and even an argentinian VIP escort who was hella popular in Turismo Carretera (known here as "TC", it's the argentinian homologe of Nascar races) and made in a Saturday night as much as my whole salary...

And in the same vein, and just to show you how weird life is...

I got in a LTR of eight years that almost ended in marriage with an average looking gal (ABSOLUTELY average, there wasn't a single remarkable thing about her) who worked as a cook in a shitty restaurant and made a quarter of my salary, in the best moment of my life, when I was in the best shape of my life, when I was the most confident I've ever been, and when I was starting to be finsncially well off.

And I loved that girl with all my heart. And I gave her everything. And she put me in a deadbedroom of almost 2 years.

My longest and most fulfilling and loving relationship to this day.

Now currently in three open relationships (not looking for commited, monogamous relationships anymore) with a 32 years old single mom who owns a small bussiness, a 28 years old accountant and a 23 years old girl who studies psychology, models and is huge on social media (can't believe how much MONEY these girls can do just by being good looking, I have a ton of crazy stories about this gal and we have been going out only for a year and a half).

Now, to your post...

That's where you're wrong.

Women who make good money are not a monolith ok, but even if they were, they don't need a man who makes more money than them.

My coach at the gym is married to a nasty rich woman. He doesn't even make a living with all the money he spends on proteins and T-pills.

I know a dude who's a 35 years old stripper. He lives with his stunningly beautiful (and younger) girlfriend in an appartment a good looking widow cougar gives him for free under the condition he gives her dick for free whenever she's up to. And the widow knows he has a girlfriend, and the girlfriend knows who's the appartment is and who gave his boyfriend the car he drives her around with, and both of them are all fine with that, and also with the fact that the dude makes a living fucking other men's STBW at bachelorette parties.

My younger brother's wife comes from a rich family, yeah my brothers and I have our own bussineses but nothing close to what this girl's father is making.

Do you think she cares how much he is making? She felt in love with the dick dude, and even convinced his father to make the dude a place in the company (which my brother politely declined, my man is proud you know, I raised the motherfucker well, props to me).

You know how these dudes mannaged to date across economic leagues?

No wonder, they are good looking and in awesome shape, that's that I mean. But then, the women they date and get married to are good looking too. So what's the trick?

All of them, INVARIABLY, don't give a fuck about "High Value Women". There is no such thing as a high value woman. A man who's tall, fit, good looking, smart, level headed, well off and acomplished doesn't give a fuck about a woman beyond looks and a healthy mind.

"Assortative mating" my balls.

Rich men tend to marry rich women not because they care about a woman's money but, surprise surprise, because the places they go to and the people they hang around with tend to be other rich people.

Your not going to meet women of lowe socioeconomic classes if you travel for fun every summer to fucking Aruba. But back home with the girl they met abroad, if the girl doesn't behave, the guy is gonna cheat on her with the first low life broke ass (good ass thou) bitch that comes to him.

Whenever you see a motherfucker hugging a good lookkng woman from behind while she's paying the bill at a fast food, you know that motherfucker is broke. How did he do it? He doesn't give a fuck that the woman has the money, because he has the dick. That's how he did it.

These dudes just spot a woman they like, approach her and make it happen. Once they get in the sack, all they have to do it's give the girl a nice time, and that's it. The bitch gets hooked.

You all spend the day talking about "women pair bonding through sex" and all that...

Well, I tell you, that's the frikin' truth here. Women get hooked after sex. Even sluts get hooked.

Even VIP "Turismo Carretera" hot escorts with an awesome place, travels, a car, a rich social life and a career can get hooked after sex I mean, that's the story of my life bro... An right from the HORSE MOUTH, she "would never get hooked after sex with a client because..." ta tan ta tan... "money is in the middle". Funny uh?

Then all these dudes have to do is to not fuck up their way out of the relationship by being extremely disrespectful to the girls, or cheat on them with whatever low life whore they find around.

The mistake some motherfuckers do is to think they are just TOO AWESOME, that's it.

Well, it's not. You just had lucky and the girl felt for it, but there are a ton of dudes out there like you who would treat that woman better. She likes you... But you can still screw things up.

So basically, that's where you wrong.

Women want men who make more than them?

Absolutely. But only if you're a lame ass.

If you keep yourself in good shape, you have some swag and know your way through the sheet, and on top of that you feel confident in your own skin, women would put up with whatever shortcoming or redflag you have.

Hell, they put up with some REAL crazy shit sometimes. I know a dude who has shit going on for him and cheated on his smart, well off acomplished wife with her FUCKING SISTER, and the girl knows it and pretends nothing happened. He fucked his wife's sister, in the bed SHE bought, with the condoms SHE bought. The motherfucker.

On the other hand...

If you don't have "it", yes... Absolutely...

You will need A TON OF MONEY to compensate for it.

In fact, the more money you have, and the more you try to compensate for the things you don't have with money, the more women will reach to you to take advantage of your money.

The more you will fall in the "husband category", the more they'll make you wait and make rules for you, the harder they will make for you to meet them in the middle.

In fact, I believe money had diminishing returns for men when it comes to dating. The more money you have, the harder getting a good woman who actually likes you for you and not the things you provide it gets.

And I'm saying here as a dude who was broke until 22, but still had a good sexual life, and now is well off at 33 and keeps getting plenty of sex.

So you would ask "why are you well off now and keep working like hell to make more money if you could get plenty of sex while broke"...

And the thing is, I fucking like women and sex.

But I like money more.

fiftypoundpuppy · 2023-06-18T20:13:49+00:00

Jesus I'm tired of these whiny posts. "Acknowledge the effort we do to have muscles!" "Acknowledge the effort we put in to get laid!"

Our effort!! Our effort!!

You guys want a cookie or something? Fine.

Men do literally everything in dating and everything is so unfair to them and they have to put in a trillion times more effort for little to no results. The deck is massively stacked against them and the dating world is so terrible for them and everything is awful all the time and by gawd THEIR EFFORT. SO MUCH EFFORT they have to put in!! Has anyone acknowledged the millions of hours of blood and sweat and tears they have to put in to even have a woman look their way?!

Women literally do nothing and get everything and men do everything and get nothing.

Like seriously tf do you guys want, a parade? A ceremony? Something akin to the Oscars where all women vote for Most Effort?

Fuck it, there. I've acknowledged it.

Now what? We done with these posts forever, right?

10throwawayantsy · 2023-06-18T19:48:59+00:00

Im kind of sick of this same type of post repeatedly storming this subreddit.

-Women have said thousands of times we don't care much about "muscle." I'm not sure how much more we have to say it. Hollywood's hottest women are simping over skinny ass dudes repeatedly

-Stop with the weird financial lies about dating. Men and women date within their own socioeconomic statuses, so no, a 6 figure man isn't looking to benefit an impoverished woman, and is also seeking a 6 figure woman to date and build a life with.

-Women like shy guys.

If you're a dude and fail regularly at dating, it's likely just your personality. I can't even tell you how frequently attractive women will give ugly men a chance, and get burned.

Flightlessbirbz · 2023-06-18T21:27:06+00:00

Physically, a woman has to meet a threshold of facial attractiveness just like a man, along with having acceptable body proportions, not just weight, in order to be considered attractive. Unattractive people of both genders still find partners, though, it’s just considerably harder.

Financially, a man may not care when he marries a woman, but he soon will if they are struggling to make ends meet. Not all women require a man make more than they do, and few men make six figures, yet most still find partners.

Social skills are more important for men, but poor social skills seriously hinder women too. Especially in terms of partner quality. Shy nice guys are too afraid to approach shy women because RBF and general awkwardness sets off their rejection sensitivity, and more outgoing nice guys usually have some options and don’t want to deal with an awkward woman because she won’t fit into his social circle. The men who DO approach shy women tend to be predatory types.

And last but not least, there are arguably more “bare-minimum dateable” women than men, not just because “women are picky” but because men tend toward extremes more than women. Meaning that even though more top-earners and achievers tend to be male, there are also statistically more men who are homeless, in prison, low-functioning addicts, living with parents, no social skills, etc. So when you look at couples, you’ll see more outstanding guys with somewhat above average women, but you’ll also see more somewhat below average women with bottom of the barrel men.

InjectAdrenochrome · 2023-06-18T20:46:27+00:00

Nah, men only need to be genetically gifted and they have a far easier time than most people. This effort stuff is for guys with average looks. Don't you guys ever want to include all those guys who are considered attractive? They are men just like you. They don't have to hit the gym because their face, height and frame are already good. Naturally high metabolism as well. More likely to develop social skills due to positive reinforcement. You act like you are a different species from these guys.

This is the one thing I agree with the manosphere about. Attractive guys get all the benefits in life. My mom said if a guy was wearing a suit, was tall and good looking "he will always get his way". It's 100% true. That being said looks aren't the only important thing (pls don't ban me again)

WholeSoft9088 · 2023-06-18T21:15:11+00:00

A women who is overweight needs to lose 20-30 lbs, throw on a dress/makeup and will be objectively attractive.

She won´t automatically be attractive to me, possibly even less as I prefer taller and/or heavier women. I've (cold) approached a sizeable amount of big woman and the majority already had relationship, I interpret that the ones that rejected me were still confident enough that another more worthy guy will one day sweep them off ther feet to not even entertain a date/short conversation. Moreover I see slim guy-big woman couples frequently. There's a lid for every pot when you´re a women. We can probably thank the continued existence of many diseases and unfit genes on the fact that the majority of women get to reproduce as was the case across history.

y2kjanelle · 2023-06-18T20:54:16+00:00

Tell men to stop being so horny and thirsty and socially deprived. Then these problems will go away.

Like what are you expecting women to do? Go for broke ugly men?? Cool you’re just going to blame us anyway for not choosing well when we’re not happy with the lifestyle and partner we chose.

I’d rather be happy and choosey and have men hate me than be unfulfilled in life, unhappy and miserable and men happy with me because 1 ugly guy got his sexual needs met.

Like bffr what do you want to come from this? What is the solution?

Safinated · 2023-06-18T20:37:45+00:00

Assortative mating and demographics indicate otherwise

Most people marry others of similar attractiveness, education, background and income as themselves. Unless you believe that men are behind women from the start

figuringLifeIsGood · 2023-06-18T21:51:33+00:00

really? i thought all the men on ppd had such high standards and would never date certain women because those women are so imperfect. thought y’all were drowning in pussy. wow who knew you guys were struggling so much. this is crazy.

BaadKitteh · 2023-06-18T22:49:19+00:00

All you guys' posts read like you live in some ignorant bubble. I love how men dismiss the idea of "putting on a dress and makeup" as easy when they truly require levels of effort and expertise they can't even imagine. All you guys have to do is shower and smell good.

Can you imagine one of these red pill geeks shaving every hair below their eyebrows as they expect women to do, let alone putting on makeup? Seriously, picture liquid eyeliner... I could die laughing.

Barneysparky · 2023-06-18T23:46:28+00:00

Where are all these amazing guys where 50% of the population has 200% of the population to choose from that are awesome?

Some people are right.for you, some are not. The people who are right for you do not exist in infident quantities.

"if you are a single attractive woman countless guys just want to build a life with you".

Meanwhile here "I pumped and dumped two women today, give me man points".

DeepHouseDJ007 · 2023-06-18T21:49:39+00:00

What exactly was this post trying to achieve other than make you look bitter?

LSAbomber · 2023-06-19T02:53:24+00:00

Men: Do everything to make the relationship work SOME WOMEN: exists

purpleunicorn888 · 2023-06-19T04:59:55+00:00

I’m sorry, but there is WAY MORE grace and tolerance for less than ideal physical looks for men than there is for women. The emphasis and importance placed on women’s physical looks far exceeds that placed on men.

NakedStreets · 2023-06-18T21:00:59+00:00

What is your explanation for WHY this is the case?

operapeach · 2023-06-18T23:24:30+00:00

To secure a partner, sure.

What you don’t understand is that men’s efforts can feasibly end after that with no consequences. Women are the social glue which holds relationships together for the rest of their duration, however long that might be.

SierraMistSoda · 2023-06-18T23:50:37+00:00

Why am I a single hot 21 year old women without a boyfriend or husband? I don't care about his income, height above 5'7, not overweight, under age 30, Christian values. Not finding them.

Kullervo92 · 2023-06-19T03:54:28+00:00

You are in fact asking two distinct questions:

Is it easier for the average man or average woman to *attract* a partner?
Is it easier for the average man or average woman to *keep* a partner?

If we control for other factors, such as age and "attractiveness" (however you choose to define that), I believe that the average woman has the advantage whilst attracting a sexual partner, yet she must cede her advantage to the average man when it comes to converting that sexual partner into a long-term mate.

I agree that women do not have to make much effort in the initial stages of dating (which consist of building rapport, seduction, and then escalation to sex). The reason for this is simply that the male sex drive is so much higher and more constant in nature than its female counterpart. As always, there are exceptions - if you are an especially desirable man, most women will require no persuasion whatsoever to sleep with you. I will touch upon what I think makes a man desirable to women in a later paragraph.

Sexual contact affects men and women very differently. For men, sex is a means to satiate desire, much like how food relieves hunger, and sleep relieves fatigue. For women, however, sex is also a means of exerting power. Once the man is satiated, she has no means to control him, and this sudden change in fortune unsettles her. Suddenly he starts to notice things about her that are not so appealing: perhaps she is ill-tempered, an impulsive spender, or prone to spread slander and gossip.

I also disagree with many of the claims you have made in the second half of your post. While becoming more active makes sense if you are overweight, there is a threshold beyond which more gains in the gym will lead to rapidly diminishing returns with women. Once you have lost the fat, you are far better to focus on other factors that increase attraction, such as building a robust social network and mastering the art of conversation. If you are a talented, well-connected, and discerning man, you will never have to look far afield for desirable women. They will find you. Women are not the delicate little coquettes that they so often affect to be.

Always remember that women are only able to drain a man's time, energy, and money despite being broke, obese, ignorant, and obnoxious because some men are so bereft of purpose and desperate for affection that we let them. You need to hold the women in your life to high standards of conduct and be prepared to walk away if they are not met. Life is simply too short and fragile to waste on mediocre people.

honeycean420 · 2023-06-19T05:22:34+00:00

This is complete bullshit and partially why the birth rate is falling. You can’t simplify relationship differences between men and women down to 5 paragraphs.

Kullervo92 · 2023-06-19T05:41:14+00:00

Most of the men I knew who chose the Chad strategy in college are now saddled with child support for all the illegitimate children they fathered. Because they neglected to cultivate a skill set of value outside of seduction, they now have miserable, backbreaking work to look forward to in the morning and a rapidly aging coterie of whores for company.

Meanwhile, I can look forward to my next trip to Tuscany.

If I had any advice for OP, it would be this:

Women are like ornaments over a robust melody. They can add more color and grace to the phrase, maybe, but their artifices cannot compensate for a weak foundation. To be happy in life, you need a purpose to fulfill, the freedom to pursue it, and a fraternity to aid you in your quest for mastery.

If there is anything undervalued in the West today, it is surely the transformative power of intimate male friendships. I am immensely grateful for the support of my own father growing up, as well as in more recent years, the many men of note whom I have met on my journeys. If you find a group of men who share your vision of the future, combine your efforts. You will achieve the power collectively which would be impossible to acquire if you had acted alone. Finding a tribe of like-minded men to join, or creating one, should be as great a priority in your life as advancing your career.

I suspect that much of the stigma directed at heterosexual men who enjoy the company of other men, men who are united in purpose, is a direct consequence of the threat such fellowship poses to women. I have observed that women love to complain about how their beta boyfriends and husbands are socially incompetent and needy, and how they feel like they are unpaid therapists and maids. But in truth, most prefer their relations with men to be this way, for when men find succor through each other, women have far less ability to influence us.

Lameador · 2023-06-19T08:59:13+00:00

Not really sure about that. There is a huge imbalance when looking for a short term partner. For a long term partner, the field evens out.

Anxious_Adult123 · 2023-06-19T05:20:27+00:00

Well I agree with your post in general but I do have some difference of opinion.

A man has to make more, and ideally 6 figures+

I think this is a gross over exaggeration. You don't really need to make that much. Unless you are going for someone making between 5 and 6 figures.

A women can be shy and still be attractive.

This is not entirely true. Yes, a shy woman has better chances of getting approached than a shy men. The entire effort needed to make the relationship work is harder for shy men compared to shy women. But for the relationship won't work if the girl is too shy, especially if she is dating a outgoing person.

I feel women completely do not recognize this vast chasm and the privilage

I do agree with this. I have talked about the in past. Most of my female friends are generally oblivious to the dating scenario of average men.

badfirstdate- · 2023-06-18T21:51:50+00:00

These days attractive women have unlimited options. Wether those are short term or long term options, they are still options. Your point about social skills is facts. A women with unlimited options can be the most dry/shy person, and the man has to say everything right in the early stages or else she will drift to another option after losing any attraction. This only applies to decently attractive girls, but to even have a chance with them you need to be close to the engineer type of guy your describing, and even then you are now competing with all of her options.

Oli_love90 · 2023-06-19T19:25:40+00:00

I find these posts so funny. If it was simply this easy for women, all women would be in a relationship.

I consistently struggled and finally gave up while checking off all the minimum requirements, it’s almost like guys have way more standards for what they want in a woman.

Sabrepill · 2023-06-18T23:06:23+00:00

There is more initial sexual selective pressure upon men. This has always been the case even before the degenerate modern era and hookup culture. History has proven that a far greater percentage of women pass on their dna than men. Men have always had it rough in the mating game.

https://psmag.com/.amp/environment/17-to-1-reproductive-success

NearDeath88 · 2023-06-19T00:30:07+00:00

On the flip side, I feel like men can change a lot about themselves to help himself improve SMV, whereas women who are born ugly will find it very hard to improve even if they work out or get a good career.

RedPill115 · 2023-06-19T01:15:43+00:00

Matthew 6:24
No man can serve two masters: for either he
will hate the one, and love the other; or else
he will hold to the one, and despise the other.
Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

What I see when education and career reach a level of being someone's "god" (it's a metaphor don't take it overly seriously) they have to choose one or the other. And it's not hard to understand that women choose the mpre reliable long term option.

"But, doesn't this affect men as well?

It depends if his career overlaps with what women find attractive.

If he's a hunter in a tribe then a single activity - hunting - gives him food, and makes the tribe like him, and makes him attractive to women. 1 skill.

If his job gives him social status, social skills, and money, then it works well for him.

But the more what makes him valuable to his employer - is different than what makes him valuable to women - the harder things get for him. Bartenders get laid way easier than techies.

ChiStoner · 2023-06-19T02:04:38+00:00

This is very true and also why a woman not being overweight or a single mother, are the 2 standards I’m wholly unwilling to shift on. If you cant do something as simple as being healthy, or not having children out of wedlock, that’s too much enabling for me. There has to be some compromise.

userhasleftchat · 2023-06-19T02:48:36+00:00

I get your point but this seems a bit out of touch and unrealistic to me. I think it’s much more common to see people of similar levels of attractiveness, educational, and socioeconomic status together regardless of gender.

And if you think that “all women have to do is not be overweight/obese, put on a dress, and wear makeup” then you really have no idea how much effort women put into their appearance. You forgot the constant full body hair removal, skin care, nail care, hair care, ever changing fashion trends, etc that women are expected to keep up with which is very expensive, time consuming, and even painful/uncomfortable (waxing, wearing high heels and tight fitting clothing for example). Not all women are “high maintenance” but these are still pushed on all women by the beauty industry.

This is not to say that men don’t have their own struggles when it comes to their appearance, but try not to be so dismissive of womens’ efforts to be considered attractive.

jewdiful · 2023-06-19T02:53:25+00:00

Idk man, I think it’s equally difficult for men and women to date and find lasting love, it’s just that the ways in which they are difficult tend to be so different. To the point where if you don’t have close platonic friends or family of the opposite sex to talk to about these things and to learn from, you will struggle to understand that EVERYONE struggles, regardless of sex. With every aspect of being a human, not just dating.

It’s gonna be hard for someone to learn that BOTH men and women struggle with finding love if you’re the kind of person who also believes men and women can’t be platonic friends. People who feel that way tend to have biases about the opposite sex that literally prevents them from being able to recognize the unique struggles and challenges of that sex. They mentally devalue and “other” the opposite sex, which makes it near impossible to seek our and form the kind of opposite sex platonic friendships that are literally the greatest teacher to understanding that fact (that men and women both struggle and suffer, just typically in different ways).

My best friend is a man. I have many close male friends and acquaintances that have never once crossed a boundary with me, or hit on me or made me feel devalued or dehumanized or objectified or anything at all like that. And I’m not ugly, I’m fairly attractive. But the energy I put out is that of love, acceptance, and openness, BUT ALSO with a clear aura of “I have solid boundaries, I expect respect, don’t fuck with me.”

Men respect that, and I have found that most men ARE genuinely good people, but they just don’t always know how to connect with others emotionally, especially women, especially platonically! Because society (and folks like you, and others commenting here) put forth the idea that men and women can’t be friends. Not all men can be friends with all women, no.

Sometimes there is an attraction or unrequited feelings that make it too difficult to be the other person because it hurts, and I get that. But that should be RARE. If men can’t be friends with women or don’t want to “because men can’t not see women as sexual objects,” well fuck you. You WILL struggle to find love, to find a good woman who loves you for you because you’re a good person. Because you’re not a good person — good people don’t write off 50% of the human population as unworthy of platonic friendship.

I’m just saying that I’ve noticed a definite correlation between these things. When you start forming genuine friendships with the opposite sex, dating becomes way easier because you meet people through your friends and sometimes even be set with someone perfect for you.

If you don’t have any friends to meet potential partners through, then you’re limited to online dating and to random chance encounters or cold openings I guess. Which isn’t really how most women want to be approached.

Basically — you’re focusing on the shallow outward characteristics of finding a partner which shows me that you’re not considering anything else. You can’t find a good woman because she knows you’re just trying to find ANY woman who checks off the right boxes for you, all outward shit, instead of who she is as a person. PEOPLE CAN SEE THROUGH THAT we want to feel special and wanted for who we are, not what we look like or what we have!!

Anxious-Tailor-7182 · 2023-06-19T02:54:29+00:00

No. Hard part is to find somebody to ask out. After that thing either go well almost immediately or you start looking for somebody else.

obviousredflag · 2023-06-19T08:05:16+00:00

Why do you analyze equality of effort on the same dimensions for men and women? You are comparing apples and oranges here.

A man who does the same may only be attractive if he is 1) not short, 2) has his hair 3) also has some muscularity. Also - to get the same "wow" effect for physical attraction a man has be in visibly good shape (muscular), tall, good face, good dress, etc. a women in general just has to not be overweight, throw on some make up and a dress.

Physical attractiveness of the body (not face) plays a minor role for female attraction to men, regarding potential relationship partners. Get out of your male perspective. Women find things hot about men that require absolutely no effort at all.

What is the effort cost for being confident? Zero. What is the effort cost for being funny? Zero.

Women being funny and confident? Not that important for attractiveness at all.

When a a guy tries to find a girl that is reasonable for him - he struggles. because that women commands a much higher value than the guy

It's inherently impossible that looking for a reasonable partner is more difficult for men than for women. Every time a woman finds that partner, a man finds a partner too. You think women don't have to go on endless dates with people in order to find that reasonable partner?

iassureyouimreal · 2023-06-19T10:41:57+00:00

If you gotta try way hard, she ain’t worth your time

DoinIt989 · 2023-06-19T12:34:11+00:00

Losing 20-30lbs is much harder for women than it is for men to lose 20-30lbs and get some muscle - they are smaller on average, dieting can affect their hormones a lot worse than it can for men, women have less muscle mass.

Money does not matter for men. As long as you don't mooch off of a woman, women don't really care if you make six figures or not

Social skills - being awkward or shy is a problem for women who date. The "one wrong word" thing is a bit of a challenge for men, but it's a difference between "harder to initiate" vs "harder to keep things going". Women often have anxious attachment styles, and they can scare men away by "doing too much", being clingy, etc. Or others are the opposite - they are shy and avoidant, so men think they are disinterested and ignore them.

Title	There is VAST chasm between the amount effort required to secure a partner that is reasonable for a healthy realtionship, between men and women.
Author	Rach1943
Upvotes	136
Comments	299
Date	June 18, 2023 7:43 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/14ct5qg/there_is_vast_chasm_between_the_amount_effort/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/there-is-vast-chasm-between-the-amount-effort.1222833 https://theredarchive.com/post/1222833

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