Does equality prevent divorce?

toasterchild · 2023-01-18T12:29:23+00:00

My friend who's a divorce attorney always gave the advice to marry someone with earnings in a similar ballpark whenever possible. Not just because it simplifies potential divorce and makes that less traumatic and painful but also it reduces the marriage misery scale.

Financial imbalance amplifies resentment of both partners. The non working spouse usually feels they have no control over anything and gets resentful and the working spouse feels the non worker is afreeloader who doesn't deserve anything.

Why set yourself up for extra resentment and power games? Relationships are hard enough already.

vapordaveremix · 2023-01-18T19:03:58+00:00

I'm a relatively new dad. My son is turning 2 and a half. Over the last 2 years, I've had to look up stuff when I needed advice.

What started as basic parenting advice went down into a rabbit hole, where I found mom support subs that aren't advertised or talked about. Very hush hush.

And when it comes to divorce, and when moms talk about divorce, it comes down to 3 main categories that I've seen.

1: Dad has a very rigid idea on how work should break down in a family. Dad thinks that by him working 8 hours a day and paying the bills, that his work is done. Meanwhile, mom is working 12 hours a day as a stay at home parent and gets burned out. She doesn't want to have sex. She gets resentful. Ultimately, she gets a divorce and actually finds that the overall workload decreases as a single mom. It's still hard, but they themselves report it's easier in comparison.

2: Dad is totally clueless and immature. Dad is a good guy but he doesn't have any common sense. He doesn't notice the work around the house that needs to be done. Has no idea how to take care of kids - for example he can't put them to bed, doesn't know what to pack in the diaper bag, doesn't get tickets for things beforehand. He still plays video games and goes out with his friends, trying to have the bachelor life even though he has kids, and doesn't put himself in the mindset of a caretaker. Mom is still doing it alone but it's from incompetence, not malice.

3: Dad is abusive, either financially, psychologically, or physically and she's desperately looking for a way out. Which, fun fact, when dad pays for all the bills and she can't work, she doesn't get an income stream or work experience and becomes totally dependent on him. She can't leave and feels trapped. When TRP talks about wanting this setup, it's about control.

There are more reasons and these categories overlap but this is the trend I've seen from the actual testimonials of women.

I have never once heard that a wife and mother wants to get a divorce because she's bored, or she's looking to cash out, or upgrade to a better man. That's RP projection. That's what RP guys would do in her situation, which is why they assume she would do it too. Every accusation is a confession.

That doesn't mean that all wives and mothers are good, or that all husbands and fathers are bad, or that a dad/father isn't justified in leaving a bad situation. Women can be abusive or neglectful too, but the general trend is that divorce happens because the entire family system is dysfunctional, and it take 2 people to make it work.

Early-Christmas-4742 · 2023-01-18T12:29:21+00:00

It wouldn't prevent divorce, if anything it would increase it because neither would lose out financially from it. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing.

hodlbtcxrp · 2023-01-18T12:50:47+00:00

Another thing that others have brought up is that, you don’t gain marital assets through divorce. You lose half. Unless you plan on marrying and divorcing multiple men, you’re better off just picking a wealthy partner and staying with them (unless they’re just hoarding their money and it’s not benefitting your QOL.)

Ok_Razzmatazz_1751 · 2023-01-18T14:29:35+00:00

Men who complain as RP don't like the woman having the ability to walk away. Individuals that think they own a person have a hard time letting go . Marrying within your economic class is best for equality. Best for the ability to start over without help. However alot of these men find a woman having a decent career horrifying . Even if a woman has a child there are daycare or academies you can send your children to ,and they'll grow up fine. Nobody I know does homeschooling. Childern do not stay small forever , people have to keep that in mind. So not all divorces need this kind of attention when including childern.. I live in the South . Everyone works. Personally don't know any homemakers, but of course I'm employed in Healthcare. One of the women dominated career fields in America.

I'm 43 . We had day cares ,and academies when I was a young child. People are so out of touch thinking these services just popped up this decade.

Equality is best always for all parties involved relating to divorce. Limited child support ,and less chance of alimony being needed by either party. Will need to work out the costs of day care ,insurance , extra accurliar activities outside of school costs.If applicable. Then scheduling of physical parental involvement.

Equality I think makes divorce easier.

AstronautLoveShack · 2023-01-18T14:49:29+00:00

I think men are looking at it wrong. They're thinking that the woman is divorcing them over money. Probably some are. But women divorce for other reasons - cheating, alcoholism, abuse, fundamental differences in values that developed over time, a lack of interest in helping around the house, etc.

Lift_and_Lurk · 2023-01-18T14:48:22+00:00

Divorce rape is like a RP boogeyman
“Be careful of the evil love and commitment! They will unleash the divorce rape! She’s out to get all your assets!” Meanwhile the dude is renting and leasing and all he’s got is maybe a nice gamer set up and some overpriced clubbing clothes.

obviousredflag · 2023-01-18T11:45:41+00:00

Of course. The men you talk about want a woman where there is an inequality and they are valuable for being the breadwinners. What else would those men be able to offer to a woman if she earned her own money? They want this kind of relationship but want a protection from divorce as well. In their ideal world, marriage binds a woman to a man with no way of getting out of that for anything than breach of contract.

8inchChineseCock2 · 2023-01-18T20:33:49+00:00

as a chinese/eastasian man, i find it mindblowing whenevee western men complain about having their kids taken away from them post divorce, because in asia its the other way around. asian women abandon their kids here post divorce, they don’t want anything to do with them after divorce, and usually ‘throw’ them on the husband. there is a chinese saying among chinese women: “its your kids, not mine!”. say what you want about western women, but at least western women still love their children post divorce and will even fight with their husband for custody of them after the divorce, that touches my heart becauss i have never seen something like that in asia. also, white womens divorce rates are actually lower than modern asian women though they always get shit on.

oneblackcoffeeplease · 2023-01-18T11:53:48+00:00

the guys who lament about being divorce raped are usually the same guys who want a SAHW ...if you and ur wife both earn money divorce rape is not that much of a thing.

From what ive noticed irl thats the case nowadays anyway (because life is expensive but also bc not all women really like doing nothing but chores and dealing with the children) and what some guys deem "divorce rape" is actually alimony for the children (if there are any)

propyl21 · 2023-01-18T12:19:49+00:00

The one thing that I have noticed is how the manosphere and right wing tropes cross over as if 2 Venn diagrams blended into one.

Just the word "divorce rape" alone should let anyone know what kind of person uses it. Throw in all the other right wing terms like soyboy, beta, cuck, etc. and you can see where things are headed. These men can't think for themselves and are empowered by these right wing tropes. Same goes for the red pill derogatory terms.

Do women have similar terminology for men? I can see only FDS has similar, but then we can all agree that FDS is a cult very similar to red pill...

velvetalocasia · 2023-01-18T11:56:57+00:00

Why would it prevent divorce? Women in this „traditional relationships“ don’t divorce because they find nothing better to do on a random Thursday. There are reasons and the more dependent they are on their husbands, the more severe this reasons need to be, to push them over the edge.

But nevertheless, obviously it’s better if both parties have their own income and build assets…..so in a divorce they both have their own things. That will not stop men though from feeling treated unfairly…..

gate18 · 2023-01-18T15:18:42+00:00

The argument manosphere use sounds like men are idiots

Of course, what they mean is "women are sluts" but in reality, if that's what happens, men are morons.

Then, the same sphere turns around, and rather than advocate for both partners to work and have their own money, they want to turn back the clock and have women stay at home!

They simply desire to shit on women. Otherwise, what you say is true. I'm in charge of my own life, I work hard, why on earth would I marry someone that would stay in my house, eat my own food, use my own money? Even if she never leaves?

"Because you are a man my son"

Bullshit, I am a man even if I never get married, even if I'm the one that stays at home...

But, they just want the status quo of the past, women cook and have no right to divorce and eventually get paid for all the unpaid labor.

Justinance- · 2023-01-18T12:02:59+00:00

In theory, probably, but in the real world people don't fall in love based on socioeconomic status. There are other inequalities outside of money as well. Even if the couple is financially equal, the could be mismatched on looks or skill.

An easier way to prevent this would be to have marriage contracts that predetermine what would happen in divorce. Many people think prenuptial agreements do this, but in my state at least, they don't. If I could prevent "divorce rape," alimony, and child support, I would. And if my terms are unsatisfactory to my partner, we don't get married. To me that seems more fair.

xzpw · 2023-01-18T12:43:22+00:00

The issue is that women earn less than men on average. The pay gap is mostly due to women choosing lower earning professions. The medical field is the most blatant example of this. Surgeons are 4x more likely to be men. Optometrists are overwhelmingly women but ophthalmologists are overwhelmingly men. (One is an MD and one isn’t - they’re different)

So while this is a nice solution on an individual basis (if you can swing it!) - it’s a terrible solution on a societal level because it’s just fucking impossible.

As a man who is single - this is my #1 complaint. It’s insanely difficult to find my socioeconomic match out in the dating world. Finding women who make anywhere near what I do is rare - add on that they need to be single and it’s never going to happen. So for men like me - the options are die alone or open oneself up to woes that come from large income imbalance.

gofigure62 · 2023-01-18T13:41:21+00:00

It's not that simple.

Some men and women do not want partners that earn as much or more than they do. Some men and women cannot find or attract partners that earn as much as they do. Some men and women don't care whether or not a partner earns as much as they do.

Most people don't bother to legally understand what marriage is. It's possible to protect assets PRIOR to marriage and even legally protect assets during a marriage.

Legally there is no "yours and mine" in a marriage. Once two people get married they are legally considered one person. Thus all assets and income acquired during the marriage are joint property (except for inheritance). Which is why it's irrelevant what someone has or hasn't done financially in a marriage.

Even in extreme income gap divorces, there is never a guarantee that the poorer partner can get more than half of what was acquired during the marriage, they may be entitled to spousal support depending on the state, duration of the marriage, and the case the poor spouse argues for support. The poor spouse also has to prove that the income and assets acquired during the marriage still exists. Most richer spouses also have a significant amount of debt and can easily hide income, wealth, and assets to make them look poorer than they actually are. The poorer spouse often can not afford the legal fees associated with fighting to prove what would be owed to them in the event of a divorce, especially if they weren't involved in much or any of the financial planning.

The issue is that people are delusional and believe that once they enter into a marriage they are an individual earner and property owner. They fail to understand that everything they earn and own during a marriage is also legally earned and owned by their spouse.

While finances are one of the leading causes of divorce. Preventing divorce is more complicated than just finances. To prevent divorce two people would have to be mutually satisfied, mutually respected, mutually fulfilled, mutually compatible, mutually in agreement regarding the boundaries of the marriage, mutually in agreement for the trajectory of the marriage, and not disproportionately burdened by the married for the marriage to continue.

A marriage could be completely fine financially, but catastrophic in every other category that would cause a divorce.

LCBrianC · 2023-01-18T13:57:10+00:00

Sure, but that’s a losing mentality. If your precedent is “make sure the wife works as equal paying a job as I do IN CASE we divorce SO THAT I don’t owe alimony”, that’s a pretty defeatist mindset. Why get married in the first place?

Not to mention that whole scenario is more beneficial to the woman anyway as she’ll have more financial independence, hence relinquishing the need for alimony.

KayRay1994 · 2023-01-18T16:11:26+00:00

i don’t think divorces are intrinsically driven by seeing the man as a “pot of gold”, most times a relationship simply falls to shit - and while equality won’t prevent divorce (at least not directly), it can at least ensure that divorce could be handled more equally - though in order to do that we also need to make some changes in how things like the family structure is viewed

Laurely4u · 2023-01-18T16:20:44+00:00

90% of men aren’t actually going to find a likable woman of exceptional looks with a million dollars who is a freak in the sheets and willing to marry them on the proposed zero sum basis. This is all hypothetical.

Scarce12 · 2023-01-18T16:45:42+00:00

The only thing, when women outearn men, divorce is 40% more likely.

RocinanteCoffee · 2023-01-18T22:49:58+00:00

Hard to say, I think we can argue that equality has made some progress (although big steps back recently on the gender front), but overall during the last decade/decades/centuries/millennia.

Zoomers and millennials are getting married later in life and reporting higher levels of happiness in these marriages. Divorce is easier than ever (as far as the paperwork) and yet Zoomers and young millennials are having much lower rates and percentages of divorce compared to their parents who grew up when women only had just gotten the right to have credit in their name.

So many components go into a happy marriage. Is it because Zoomers and young millennials are getting married a bit later, and the number one indicator of divorce is marrying young? ng into long-term relationships?

HazyMemory7 · 2023-01-18T23:07:30+00:00

However, can't this be prevented simply by ensuring that the man and woman are equal?

Hypergamy. Women have a tendency to date up in income. Equal is basically bare minimum generally. You are basically advocating to change something that is innate human behavior, it's not going to happen.

Depending on age, married men generally earn ~20-40k more per year than married woman.

And before anyone chimes in with some lame gender wage gap myth non-sense, when you equalize all variables iirc women earn 99 cents for every dollar men make, which can be attributed to men being more likely to ask for raises. The wage gap is a result of men being more inclined to work more dangerous, blue collar jobs, trade jobs, and being more likely to go into STEM.

You also have to bear in mind that at a certain income, the dating pool of people in the age range you're dating will become really narrow. You want a woman in her 20s, who isn't promiscuous, has no kids, and earns say 150k+? A small percentage of the population is making that. If you get to 300-400k+ and want an equal in that, now your dating pool is REALLY small.

crookedsummer2019 · 2023-01-18T13:15:35+00:00

There are many reasons why women choose to divorce their husbands. For every wife who chooses to divorce rape her husband because he has money, there are probably 5 who choose to stay in a shit marriage because he has money.

There are also lots of equal income earner couples who divorce for reasons that have nothing to do with money.

Like someone else here mentioned, the guys who complain about this tend to be the same guys who want a housewife/ bangmaid with no career or decent income of her own who will serve his needs while not expecting much in return.

If he doesn’t want her to work outside the home then the consequences of that is paying out if the marriage doesn’t work.

‘But he can get a prenup!’

Prenups are mutually agreeable contracts that stipulate how much the higher income earner WILL give his ex if the marriage ends. The more he makes and the less she makes, the more he may have to give her. Lawyers don’t create prenups where the lesser earning spouse gets nothing and even if they did, it wouldn’t hold up in court anyway.

The only way to prevent divorce rape is to marry someone who makes the same or more or to not get married at all and not have kids.

januaryphilosopher · 2023-01-18T12:08:50+00:00

It increases the incentives as neither party can perceived themselves as being the financial loser from divorce, whereas in the case of a substantial earnings difference, both parties can.

Gari_305 · 2023-01-18T12:36:44+00:00

However, can't this be prevented simply be ensuring that the man and woman are equal?

Negative u/hodlbtcxrp because one party in the relationship will always make more than another party. The judge will place onus on paying on the party that make more.

WowYouMustBeJoking · 2023-01-18T14:34:58+00:00

So your solution is some sort of a caste system where only people with equal incomes marry? I don't think it's equality. And how do you ensure they are equal? Would you police who people are dating?

What could prevent divorce rape are laws that make sense. They would be based on flat fees, not percentages. Musk and Bezos would build their fortunes no matter who they married, their ex-wives shouldn't get credit and half (actually not really, but still) of what they made after the marriage. Of course, this would apply if sexes were reversed, too.

BruddaMSK · 2023-01-18T13:05:30+00:00

Simply do not split anything. That is enough. Yes the man will provide more and I believe most are more or less okay with that. Splitting property is where divorce rape starts.

Oh uh eh but what if the married couple purchases a property and the wife invests but then they divorce

Buy it 50/50 or according to the amount each party gives. Just think in advance. Each person should be left with what they had before or what they paid for with their own money, of course unless you gonna admit the woman should get paid for the time she spends with the man (which makes her no different from a pr0stitute)

gobble6gobble9 · 2023-01-18T12:27:21+00:00

Honestly, you want as few barriers to divorce as possible. I think a lot of people, regardless of their “pill,” gender, or politics, like to fantasize about marriage being some kind of goal or even salvation, but it’s not. People who don’t want to married should not have to worry about “skin in the game.”

Financial_Chemist286 · 2023-01-18T14:18:48+00:00

Lol you haven’t met my woman, it’s not that she can’t work. Why should she she says?!

She did work once for the local school district.

Said why bother to work and show up all those hours for such little pay and by the time Uncle Sam took his cut.

She would rather stay at home and go to her daily yoga.

There are probably very few women you will find that have $1,000,000.00 in net worth and if they do, they are either not your type, are very dominant and obviously just wouldn’t work out for a long term relationship especially for what a man really wants in a woman.

Fun, fit, fertile.

The type of women who are fun, fit and fertile just don’t really seem to be the ones to hustle like a man and put in the work to get to $1,000,000.00 they’d rather just be in a relationship where they are going to submit to a man and be taken care of.

TermAggravating8043 · 2023-01-18T11:42:21+00:00

It can be equal if the women also works, and the guy also cooks, cleans and looks after the child

Simples

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daisydaisydaisy12 · 2023-01-18T14:02:03+00:00

Safinated · 2023-01-18T15:28:13+00:00

Yes, that is the whole point of alimony and child support

medlabunicorn · 2023-01-18T18:05:39+00:00

Divorce is just as likely because the woman is less likely to tolerate a man who is a ball and chain, but alimony is non-existent.

Fabulous_Dependent19 · 2023-01-18T18:53:26+00:00

Do prenups not prevent this?

hiddendance · 2023-01-18T19:37:08+00:00

If you are a dude getting married in this day and age I don’t feel an ounce of sympathy for whatever happens to you.

2023-01-18T19:51:34+00:00

I’m going to say no because a lot of the problems in marriages today is that women will not stop shopping for mates and will leave a guy who falters slightly in some aspect. While men pick a woman and stick with her even if she doesn’t work, gets fat, etc. Men have always been disposable it’s just getting worse.

Pathosgrim · 2023-01-18T20:37:46+00:00

Women fought so hard for equality yet they show no reciprocation of it towards a man that makes less than them. I dare say equality isn't real or at least an illusion

DisasterPeace7 · 2023-01-18T21:43:56+00:00

No, if anything it's another factor that initiates it

Sekina7 · 2023-01-20T01:50:00+00:00

Lol alimony is only granted in 10% of cases! Is this a serious post?

Title	Does equality prevent divorce?
Author	hodlbtcxrp
Upvotes	28
Comments	195
Date	January 18, 2023 11:31 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/10f55rl/does_equality_prevent_divorce/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/does-equality-prevent-divorce.1148694 https://theredarchive.com/post/1148694

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