PPD community: Do you believe this sentiment is accurate or inaccurate?

WilliamWyattD · 2022-02-09T15:56:47+00:00

It happens. It is hard to say how often it happens.

But let's try to be fair. We are slowly dropping any rules or forms with respect to social, and particularly courting, behavior. The only new ones we are adding are based on PC bullshit, and everyone knows deep down they are unworkable.

Meanwhile, we have elevated sexual success to be nearly as much of a status symbol as economic success. This affects men, in particular. However, we also have mixed messaging as to what women truly want from men, and therefore about what men should base their expectations on with respect to what kinds of women are attainable.

Men who are low in the dominance hierarchy will naturally tend to be impulsive, taking great risks for even low-probability chances at sexual and other hedonistic activities. This is because such opportunities rarely come along, and the men have little to lose. Men also know that confidence and boldness increase their chances, even if they remain slim. Thus a kind of irrational self-confidence when taking one's shot with a woman who is being nice to a man becomes rational within a certain context. Later on, if you asked these men if the women were really flirting or just being nice, and paid them to get the correct answer, many would probably give you the right answer. But at the time, there is a self-perceived benefit to fooling themselves.

So I have empathy for all sides in these situations. I can see how this is a hassle for women. I can see why the guys, though ultimately misguided, would do as they do. Essentially, culture is failing us here.

baresquad · 2022-02-09T15:42:54+00:00

Accurate.

There’s a comment there that says “she’s not flirting with you. She’s just hot and talking” and truer words have never been spoken

sarkington · 2022-02-09T15:44:53+00:00

Accurate. I behave completely differently to strange men vs women, or women and men I know and like, for this very reason

No woman, for example, has taken eye contact as license to demand things from or threaten me, not even crazy homeless women

cvslengthbucketlist · 2022-02-09T18:56:14+00:00

A lot of men assume women are interested because societally men are expected to initiate, so dating for men can pretty much be summed up in three words: "taking calculated risks."

Men risk rejection but usually don't suffer unwanted attention, while women risk unwanted attention but largely avoid having to put themselves out there for rejection. That's the "gender trade-off," so to speak.

In the end it's basically a cost-benefit analysis for a guy:

A. If you play it safe every time then you'll never get called a creep, but you'll also end up alone.

OR

B. If you take risks when they reasonably make sense (the woman is friendly or enthusiastic towards you) then you have nothing to lose if you make a move politely and take no for an answer. At worst she'll judge you for a few seconds and you'll never see her again anyway.

effeteintellectual · 2022-02-09T15:45:31+00:00

Women should try to be empathetic. Men are the initiators, we have to take risks in order to get laid. Sometimes if my gut says I have a shot with a girl, I’m going to shoot my shot. If I misjudged the situation and the girl isn’t into me, that’s fine. I’ll take the rejection on the chin. The alternative is never taking a chance and dying alone.

Dell_Hell · 2022-02-09T15:39:39+00:00

You have a few things going on here:

Men are compliment starved
Women traditionally being taught they have to be indirect and just "give hints" that men need to read.
Men having had experiences where they "missed the signals" and only are told long after the fact when they can't take action anymore.

Between the three, you have guys over react to minor compliments, and as such perceive it as "the hint" they need to take and run with or risk having lost out on that "golden opportunity".

What's my solution to this?

Men must give other men compliments seriously and directly more. Stop this underhanded, "I give him shit to show he's my buddy" garbage. Just tell your friends what you admire about them. Stop making it "gay" to tell your friends something you appreciate about them in a serious manner.
Women need to smash the indirect, coy bullshit model they were taught. Take the risk yourself and flat out ask if you're interested. If you've dropped two hints and he hasn't bolted - just ASK.

PMmeareasontolive · 2022-02-09T15:59:13+00:00

Have made that mistake in the past when I was very young and inexperienced (and desperate). Have probably over-corrected in the other direction now.

Matt_Door · 2022-02-09T16:56:05+00:00

I think age is a big factor. When I was 13-20 I would follow around any girl that was nice to me like a puppy dog and would assume interest. With strike out after strike out, calibrating my “league” as it were, you learn that almost all women have no interest. Then you start missing opportunities assuming no women are interested. I know I have.

John_Oakman · 2022-02-09T16:16:45+00:00

The men who assume are more visible than the males who don't assume, so that might skew perceptions...

armordog99 · 2022-02-09T17:00:50+00:00

I read a great book called “The evolution of desire” by Dr. David Buss that explained this using an evolutionary model. He theorized that men are hardwired not to miss mating opportunities and so they see them even when they are not there. In some of his research he showed men and women videos of men and women interacting and the men were much more likely to say that a women was flirting (by a wide margin) then women were.

Watch_the_backflip · 2022-02-09T15:56:54+00:00

Well, I do not feel bad for women in this regard.

I mean, damn it must be hell for a member of the opposite sex to take your signals as interest, express interest in you, and be willing to risk rejection.

I guess us stupid men should stop approaching altogether.

All joking aside, if a woman is nice to me I'm going to assume interest because, largely, women do not pay attention to men they aren't interested in. Moreover, I'm not risk-adverse - I can take rejection. What I can't take is missing a chance because a woman is terrible at making her interest known and being coy.

GuitarsBack · 2022-02-09T17:18:13+00:00

So it seems like:

Men are more likely to hit on women who are nice and pleasant to be around.
Men are less likely to hit on women who are rude or unfriendly or come across as cold.

Now, how can we explain this?

Of course! It's "men misinterpreting friendliness and kindness"!

There is no other possible explanation.

flapperfemmefatale · 2022-02-09T16:35:01+00:00

Accurate. I've had customers hit on me because apparently smiling while you do your job is flirting...?

I'm sorry some men are so starved for attention, but that doesn't mean they get to drag me into whatever issues they have.

nick1812216 · 2022-02-09T17:57:24+00:00

For me personally yes. If a woman is nice to me there is a knee jerk reaction. I immediately hope/think she may be interested in me. This is an emotional response. However, the rational part of my brain overrides this emotional/knee-jerk response and I don’t act on the belief that she is interested. The rational brain thought process is something like: “she said a nice thing, but she is probably not interested, and it would be a faux pas to assume she is. She is a mature adult and if she were interested she would communicate it directly.”

(Side note, I’ve never had a GF so this may not be the best strategy to follow? I feel like the guys who take chances and pursue women even if it may be a faux pas are more successful than the guys who play it safe?)

wtknight · 2022-02-09T16:16:18+00:00

It’s because men will miss romantic opportunities if they don’t assume interest from a woman, because some women actually are interested, and the average man’s number of opportunities is limited. So yes, most men are going to assume interest because it’s advantageous for them, and the potential benefits outweigh the potential costs, unless it gets him into some kind of workplace sexual harassment scenario.

Hoopy223 · 2022-02-09T16:17:49+00:00

Yes

Most men get zero attention from women. Like ZERO. You know that guy at work or school who is “kinda cute”? He’s probably never heard a compliment in his entire life.

So when a woman is nice to them, asks about their life they figure she is interested on some level.

FlamingZebraFace · 2022-02-09T16:57:36+00:00

I think over-confidence by men, thinking that women are attracted to them, is a rational evolution-based way to act generally. Basically men (that were successful in our evolutionary past) work by the smoke detector principle; ie. "evolved systems that regulate protective responses often give rise to false alarms and apparently excessive responses."

Basically, a "successful" man (evolutionarily speaking) will assume that it's 'go time' with a woman, because there's little downside to him being incorrect; just a bit of rejection. This is analogous to a smoke alarm going off when there's no fire; there's basically no downside, except annoyance.

On the other hand, the cost of assuming there's no attraction could have tremendous consequences evolutionarily; just as the cost of a weak fire alarm is a fire+death.

abaxeron · 2022-02-09T17:28:56+00:00

When women see one of their own acting the same or similarly, they say she's a "victim of gaslighting".

I firmly believe that this is sufficient to make conclusions.

That__EST · 2022-02-09T15:36:27+00:00

Dipping my toe into the pool...

Yes. I do think that it's correct. But as another poster recently told me, it's mainly for men who don't get a lot of options.

KirthWGersen · 2022-02-09T16:19:23+00:00

I have learned that it is best to assume that women are flirting with me. A man really has nothing to lose that way.

Midnightchickover · 2022-02-09T18:20:39+00:00

accurate imo.

i fell victim to this in the past, but I never acted on it thankfully

cowfishAreReal · 2022-02-09T15:37:59+00:00

Some men do, some men don't. But I do admit that the ones that do are pretty fucking annoying with it

NoMarriageNoKids · 2022-02-09T15:36:55+00:00

If I find a woman attractive and she's talkative with me I'll flirt with her just because it's fun. It doesn't mean I'm going to ask her out even though I know oftentimes they want me to. It's all in their eyes.

DerekMorganBAU · 2022-02-09T15:57:52+00:00

I always assume interest unless proven otherwise or I’m just not interested in them myself.

That’s the healthy thing to do as a man when it comes to talking and flirting with women imo.

In my mind I’ve already won them over and the rest is just a formality. Gives you confidence assertiveness and outcome independence all at once.

Then if they’re not interested you move on cause who cares this one chick looks interested so let me go holla at her.

goatismycopilot · 2022-02-09T16:52:47+00:00

I do not think men are interested in ME specifically if I am friendly and they assume I want them. I am just a female arranged form with the body parts they want to poke. I just happen to be there.

I am in the south where talking to stranger people is the norm.

ohheyhi99 · 2022-02-09T17:12:43+00:00

This happens a lot.

If you’re not an attractive guy, you’ll notice that lots of women above a certain looks level have barriers up around you. When a woman at that level not only doesn’t have those barriers up, but also dotes on you or acts flirty, it might feel like more than it is.

On a related note, I’ve known attractive men who had women go nuts over them because they were nicer and sometimes flirtier than the women expected a guy that attractive to be with them.

FullyUsedChapstick · 2022-02-09T19:34:45+00:00

Can anyone here tell me the difference between "Assuming attraction" and "Being confident" when it comes to male-female interactions?

Maybe it's just because I'm black and the line for what's considered masculine for me is different for women, but overall it's better to assume attraction than to be like "Oh well she won't like me there's no way she could."

One of these is much more attractive to women than the other

heyitsjeape · 2022-02-09T15:48:32+00:00

I guess I don’t understand why that would be a problem. Of all the people I’m attracted to, if one is nice to me, why wouldn’t I try with that one?

LittyKitsune · 2022-02-09T16:59:07+00:00

Ime it's only accurate when he's attracted to you. If he's not nothing short of screaming "I love you" from the rooftop of the tallest skyscraper will give him that impression.

Midnightchickover · 2022-02-09T18:29:22+00:00

Women compliment or are polite to other women (older, younger, different ethnicities, religions)-- Neither one expects a date, usually.

Women compliment or are polite non-heterosexual men -- Neither one expects a date.

Women compliment or are polite an animal or pet -- For the most part, neither one expects a date.

Women compliment or are polite to children -- For the most part, no one expects a date.

Women compliment or are polite to a heterosexual men (18-50 ish_ -- I''d say most would not expect anything of it, though some do flirt aggressively. Given anyone from any walk of life or group can flirt, there's no problems with flirting, unless it is not reciprocated or given back.

I actually feel bad for guys who build up expectations in mere interactions or conversations, then get rejected or ignored after it happens. And, take the woman's rejection as a personal slight or ...I dare use the word "disrespect." When this action was never her intentions, or goal for that man.

Men say that they have to walk on egg shells around women, because they might take it as harassment or aggressive flirting.

Women say they are often put in situations that they don't know how to handle, because you don't want to bruise the guy's ego to the point -- it turns into an insult, negative interaction, or violence. Or, they think she is leading them on, even though they only paid a general compliment. This leads more into incels and some RP men.

Again, if we frame it where non-heterosexual men paid more compliments to heterosexual men -- how would many of them feel about that? Would most find that empowering and disgusting?

poppy_blu · 2022-02-09T23:04:22+00:00

Is that they think women are interested or they’re just shooting their shot?

You might not win the jackpot when you sit down at the slot machine but you definitely won’t win if you never spin.

Men with abundance mentality take the shot and if they miss move on to the next.

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WilliamWyattD · 2022-02-09T15:35:37+00:00

[permanently deleted]

cutiepiekitty13 · 2022-02-09T16:18:53+00:00

I’ve been nice/complimentary to guys before, and they seem to be more attached afterwards. I take it as a compliment. Nothing romantic ever happened in those instances, but if I assumed they wanted “more” I think it’d be vain of me. There’s a possibility they were attracted to me, but that’s not a bad thing. I don’t know why anybody, male or female would be “annoyed” by this. Women like this are partially why men find it difficult to initiate conversations with women and sometimes read between the lines. Getting annoyed by someone misreading your gestures is just human error.

Kentucky_Supreme · 2022-02-09T17:26:58+00:00

Accurate because it rarely happens. So when it does, it seems like there must be a reason for it. If the vast majority of women were really nice and friendly all the time, then it could be viewed as "normal".

nedinator3000 · 2022-02-09T21:03:58+00:00

Because most of the time it’s true.

Title	PPD community: Do you believe this sentiment is accurate or inaccurate?
Author	Midnightchickover
Upvotes	23
Comments	109
Date	February 9, 2022 3:32 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/sogc0g/ppd_community_do_you_believe_this_sentiment_is/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/ppd-community-do-you-believe-this-sentiment-is.1101559 https://theredarchive.com/post/1101559

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