The arguments on here are so circular

Livid-Log7463 · 2025-09-22T00:43:33+00:00

Simply acknowledging that these points are true and are unchangeably inherent I believe IS the whole point of arguing them in the first place as there are a lot of those who would still push back and argue otherwise. Widespread acceptance may not be able to possibly make a change but at least it would be acknowledged as the truth that it is instead of some other likely vilifying facade as a means to absolve women of any collectively effecting roll they play.

OppositePerspicacity · 2025-09-22T01:55:04+00:00

The arguments are circular because women don't care about men's complaints when it comes to relationships, and men don't care about women's complaints when it comes to relationships.

Men come here to complain about how women shouldn't sleep around, go for assholes, shouldn't demand gender-role benefits while avoiding their own, and shouldn't expect high value men while most women are mid.

Women come here to complain about how men only use them for sex, aren't more committed in relationships, don't do more, aren't meeting their standards (they love the phrase "the bar is on the floor"), and how most men don't put in the work to be attractive enough for most women.

Nothing will change because we're effectively in a zero-sum game where both sides are refusing to blink.

So, circling back to those circular arguments: what do you get out of them?

Online entertainment.

7186997326 · 2025-09-22T06:06:19+00:00

This sub is very niche. Most normal people don't have the kinds of discussions that happen here.

Triglycerine · 2025-09-22T00:22:26+00:00

People on both sides know that there's something wrong with the status quo they're just incapable of articulating what.

(It's the Kali Yuga)

Emotional_Meal748 · 2025-09-22T19:01:18+00:00

At least now women are listening and responding. Before the election, they were on such high horse that they wouldn’t even entertain these arguments

LawfulnessSuper5091 · 2025-09-22T00:48:13+00:00

Occasional snippets of wisdom and high interest, but yes so many people whose complaint really sounds like "I ignore heaps of good options, I clearly try and often fail to punch above my weight, now I'm pathologising it to the nth degree."

So often I find myself thinking "Oh if only I could see your online profiles, footage of you in conversation and a selection of people you think are reasonable targets for your amour, I bet I could explain it all."

Also the key problem of our day writ small - so many people's tendency to black-and-white, either/or everything.

ConstipatedAvocado · 2025-09-22T08:07:40+00:00

LOL I'm not even a redpiller, but its amusing to me seeing women and "bluepillers" say shit like this ultimately because they're upset and frustrated a lot of men seem to be bucking the system and refusing to commit to nonsense women.

The top thread here is a guy who self proclaims to be "non-monogamous" trying to lecture people about why being called husband material is actually a good thing. So essentially a guy who, for all we know, could actually be a cuck, is telling cisgendered straight men what a wonderful thing that is.

For me, its not different than the political discourse in much of the west, especially America right now. I dont like Trump, never really liked Trump and dislike a lot of the people around him even more. However, after the 2024 election I really started to get it. I started to understand that a lot of his appeal wasnt even because many of his supporters particularly liked him either but because he was a check against the deep self serving inauthenticity of much of the mainstream political discourse and centre-left neo liberal cultural and economic values held by many today. Whether it was the fallout of metoo movement (with cases like Danny Masterson, Kevin Spacey and DeppvHeard largely falling apart) or the decline of movements like BLM (where many of the organisers ran off with the money donated to them), a lot of people have come to feel that these movements were largely just a self service vehicle for its proponents. The gender discourse is no different.

Yesterday I watched Andrew Wilson (another odious grifter) completely dismantle a woman who asked him to rate his own wife, he did, only for the woman to completely crumble when asked to do the same. The way to defeat many of these manosphere types is through honesty and a genuine belief in what you're saying. Problem is, when it comes to dating, a lot of women are completely dishonest, hence why the movement only continues to grow and more of the rhetoric u see on this sub is spreading beyond it.

BobtheArcher2018 · 2025-09-22T04:50:28+00:00

The point is that there is such disagreement about basic facts that of course any higher order arguments about what they mean, what should be done, etc. are bound to be circular. What needs to happen is to get a general consensus about the underlying facts that is much closer to actual reality. But this is hard because most humans are not really that rational, and one's take on the underlying facts has become an aspect of people's social/political identity. Humans are stuck in herd psychology.

Jolly_Teacher_1035 · 2025-09-22T07:15:39+00:00

To me, the most appalling thing is that the saying is true, men are very easy to understand and to make happy.

But still a lot of women claiming they don't understand men, or asking questions that clearly shows so. Like, you can understand us if you thought for 5 minutes, but you will not do the effort, then go to reddit and ask the same questions again and again.

esdebah · 2025-09-22T00:23:06+00:00

IMHO, it's circular because it is bullshit. Oldass stereotypes. General insecurity and risk aversion. Grandstanding. Misanthropy. People are fucking people and most of the issues you see here come from a desire for a sure-fire dating strategy or simple definitions of gender and sexuallity. Neither exists in a useful way. Approaching people as individuals with genuine interest works....not all the time, because of course not everyone is compatible. But risk and exploration are rewarded...more of the time. So much of this sub is just trying to convince you of hacks that aren't hacks.

Work takes work

RahLyt · 2025-09-22T00:29:21+00:00

A change is happening clearly. Society is becoming more fragmented. Therefore easier to control.

Society erases male pain while attributing maximum accountability to their outcomes.

At the same time it explains women's issues as societal imbalances while any benefit modern women have is due to their effort and talent ("women being more attractive because they groomed since they were children". Or "they learned to mask when they were 5 years old", etc). While having any shortcomings rationalized or projected ("a man who doesn't pay is not a real man" lol) therefore theres barely any incentive for introspection.

So what's going to happen, women will grow more delusional and men will atrophy their emotional development even more.

This already reflects childhood development between the sexes girls are encouraged to express while boys to supress. Most differences on how we handle emotions were socialised.

I don't think men will revolt at all. Men will more likely freeze as many already do and rationalize their decision as logical. Its mostly out of fear of being judged or rejected.

Regarding circular arguments. People here are arguing ideology not looking for truth. They are here for a sense of belonging or identity validation. So as longs as they need those the longer they will loop.

BlueberryAccording45 · 2025-09-22T07:50:03+00:00

change is happening though, more and more become aware of women and in turn start dating to their advantage, like dating over seas for more traditional women.

"change never will happen"

it happened, so i guess op is 100% wrong?

Logos1789 · 2025-09-22T03:32:56+00:00

Asserting truth

MidnightDefiant1575 · 2025-09-22T06:42:30+00:00

I agree with the comments on feedback loops and circular arguments. I'd put it another way. It's people with a given ideology simply repeating the same thing over and over, usually attacking those with a different ideology as a form of entertainment or as a way to vent. There is a minority that want to hear new insights, different opinions, additional information, intriguing arguments, etc. but we're a minority. I think it's unfortunate because there are a lot of important and fascinating issues that should be discussed, but that's the way it goes.

I rarely come to this subreddit now, and when I do go on Reddit, I'll check out feeds that focus on specific hobbies, health issues, travel opportunities, work-related topics, or very focused sex-related questions because I find those forums to be dominated by people asking interesting questions and (usually) reasonable people making a good faith effort to answer the question, provide new information or offer their judgments/opinions/experience.

The best part about this subreddit is that it isn't burdened by the type of censorship that permeates many of the dating and relationship-related subs. At least people can say what they think, even if it is ridiculed and attacked without mercy. That alone makes it worthwhile, I suppose.

Outside_Memory5703 · 2025-09-22T01:05:22+00:00

That’s because people are different, and do and think different things

small-pp-small-smv · 2025-09-22T03:32:25+00:00

I'm holding out the day for when women admit that they were outright lying or at the very least abusing language this whole time.

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brentifil · 2025-09-22T11:40:44+00:00

It's not about doing anything about it. Its about understanding. It's about knowing. You spend your whole life looking for a fairytale. Life shows you otherwise. You cant punish people or change things. Only thing a person can do is take it in and adjust your own path, knowing what is actually happening. This makes some people angry, some people motivated. There lies the problem, angry people are more vocal. They want some comeuppance. They want to scream and argue how unfair things are. Those people didn't really get the message.

chocobolamo · 2025-09-22T13:24:28+00:00

The red pill is what to do?

Like i don't get it. you disregarded the entire red pill which objectively is what to do about it and then say there isn't anything to about it and discussions are meaningless.

It sounds like you just dont have a concept of what the pills even are.

onlyaseeker · 2025-09-23T16:58:00+00:00

I know redpill is about accepting that women are the way that they are, and that men are overshadowed by them.

Is it? You know it for sure?

Because that's not what it's about.

Being red pilled is about accepting truth. What is the truth is up for debate. There are certain conclusions that the community has come to that many people will agree with, but there's plenty that they will also disagree with.

Most who become "aware" will manipulate their own situation to benefit off of the system, which is understandable.

In my experience, it's blue pilled people who do the most manipulation of the system to their benefit. They are monsters at it and see it as completely normal and do whatever they can to maintain things that way, which is why society works for them so well.

How do you think people got red pilled in the first place?

A change never will happen, since, due to looks, hormones, societal standards, priorities, affirmation, etc, women are more desirable, and men are less likely to be desired. It's just how it is. We all know this.

A change will happen, it's just a matter of whether or not it will be a change that we like or not. It's our choice. We can keep going down this path that we're going down and watch our society collapse, and then if we're still able to, choose to do something different. Or we can choose do something different now.

One of the things I find most disgusting about our current society is this nihilistic, defeatist, self-indulgent attitude of "nothing is ever going to change, so why bother? Why not just enjoy ourselves while everything collapses."

It's self-centered and weak-minded. It's also something afforded to those with privilege. Because for people who are actually in are problematic, change isn't a choice. It's forced upon them.

Pro-IDGAF · 2025-09-22T18:26:37+00:00

the problem i see is that now days women have more options, power and more knowledge and act accordingly, choosing the path they see fit. thats on them, they are the gate keepers. its been that way ever since rape became illegal. dont read into that, rape is never ok.

men on the other hand have become lazy and think women owe them sex. it’s on us men to attract someone and stay in your lane for fucks sakes. if your a 2,3,4 guy, stop demanding 7+ women be attracted to you unless you bring something special to the game when you open your mouth to a woman. they’ll see that.

caption291 · 2025-09-22T10:56:49+00:00

A change never will happen, since, due to looks, hormones, societal standards, priorities, affirmation, etc, women are more desirable, and men are less likely to be desired. It's just how it is. We all know this.

I strongly disagree and I think you're missing the forest for the trees here. There has never been a point in history where changes to the average human experience happened as quickly as quickly as it currently does and it keeps getting faster and faster.

I understand it can be difficult to discuss what's going to happen in the future but assuming nothing will change is one of the worst guess possible.

Anyways, I think a lot of debates are essentially one side saying 1+1=2 and the other saying "nuh huh I don't like that". In other words, one side is trying to keep things circular while the other is trying to break trough. When you recognize that you should shit on the side that's trying to avoid the main question in some way. 95% of the time that's going to be women or white knights and pretending it's a both sides kind of issue is unhealthy at best.

EducationPatient4622 · 2025-09-22T11:03:08+00:00

Men dont have bigger sex drives.

Title	The arguments on here are so circular
Author	RequirementMinimum36
Upvotes	40
Comments	133
Date	September 22, 2025 12:03 AM UTC (10 months ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1nn7q7c/the_arguments_on_here_are_so_circular/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/the-arguments-on-here-are-so-circular.1562514 https://theredarchive.com/post/1562514

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