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Why do men complain so much?

YveisGrey

February 6, 2026

0 upvotes

Why do red pill men or more broadly manosphere men complain so much about dating being “unfair” to men? Do they think it’s fair that women have periods, go through pregnancy, deliver babies painfully and breastfeed while all they do is nut? How is that for “fairness”? They easily accept the unfairness of reproduction being much more costly for women but then complain endlessly about how hard it is to get sex with women. It should be very easy to understand why it would be harder for men to get sex with women than vice versa and no this shouldn’t be presented as some sort of advantage when women already pay the price via bearing the children. We aren’t getting a free ride, and actually women have been treated like second class citizens because they have children and because men want to control them sexually so if anything the whole dynamic is a burden for women.

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Post Information

Title	Why do men complain so much?
Author	YveisGrey
Upvotes	0
Comments	317
Date	February 6, 2026 10:14 PM UTC (5 months ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1qxvont/why_do_men_complain_so_much/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/why-do-men-complain-so-much.1572894 https://theredarchive.com/post/1572894

Comments

[–]I-wanna-GO-FASTRed Pill Man 35 points36 points37 points 5 months ago (40 children) | Copy Link

Men that complain about unfairness do so because they see women doing it and often getting sympathy and aid as a result. They think they'll get similar results if they do the same, because they've been fooled into believing that most people genuinely care about things like fairness or "equality" outside of using those ideals to further their own interests.

They do not realize that most people are simply genetically predisposed to caring more about women's problems. You say women take all the the risk in having sex for example. Western nations have gone to great lengths to alleviate many of those risks by making birth control easily accessible, helping women terminate unwanted pregnancies (even if that has been eroded recently in some states), and mandating child support from unwilling fathers as much as possible even in cases involving statutory rape and paternity fraud. Western laws have gone so far to help women that many argue that they've gone too far and made things completely unfair for men.

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[–]corey____trevorRed Pill Man 16 points17 points18 points 5 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]YveisGreyPurple Pill Woman[S] 1 point2 points3 points 5 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Can’t speak to the other post cause I didn’t make them

But a woman is not going to feel bad for a man not being able to have sex easily. This is because sex is risky for women so men having sex easily would be at the expense of women. This is what I mean when I say a person is not going to feel bad for someone who’s in a better position than them. I’m not saying that I could never feel sorry for literally anybody that had a better life than me going through something painful. I just mean I’m not gonna feel bad for somebody at my own expense. I probably could’ve worded that better though.

And you keep going on about this abortion being risky yes I know abortion is not dangerous. I’m just saying it’s more risky than not ever getting pregnant and having one. I’m pretty sure if I read the back of the abortion pill package it’s going to tell me all the side effects and all the risks.

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[–]SpookyPutinMan: Purple depressionmaxxer 5 points6 points7 points 5 months ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]YveisGreyPurple Pill Woman[S] 0 points1 point2 points 5 months ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]SpookyPutinMan: Purple depressionmaxxer 2 points3 points4 points 5 months ago (4 children) | Copy Link

If women didn’t make it hard for men to get them pregnant humans probably would have died out by now

Not really, men controlled women for hundreds of years but that's not really the point I want to discuss.

Women think men are dangerous and I fully understand why. There are millions of dangerous men out there and it only takes one to turn a woman into a statistic but the male population is around 4 billion. For every 1 dangerous man there's 10 who have zero desire to hurt women but women treat all men as if they might be said dangerous man. Women complain about bringing up false rape despite it also being a small section of the female population doing it yet men are in the wrong about women treat men like criminals despite it being a small section doing it.

Both have it rough in the dating scene and both have valid issues but I will admit women have it worse overall but that shouldn't mean men just have to suck it up. The squeaky wheel gets the oil and so the only way attention is brought to the issue is by people complaining.

[–]YveisGreyPurple Pill Woman[S] 0 points1 point2 points 5 months ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]SpookyPutin2 points 5 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]YveisGrey1 point 5 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]SpookyPutin1 point 5 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

it’s so easy why don’t men do that now because women choose wealthy men even today.

Some women choose wealthy men, name a male millionaire and he's either got a girlfriend, wife or a long line of Ex

If a man has to be wealthy or has to provide to get a woman then he has to WORK to get her.

Completely agree. When I said wealthy I meant it as relative to what she thinks her value is when it comes to modern dating. A girl will make is easy to spend time with you when she's into you but getting a girl to like you is difficult if you don't have a preexisting relationship.

This is what men complain about in the RP and I’m pointing out how lame that is.

To you it sounds lame because you don't have to try and get dates. Most women can go up to a guy they find attractive and unless he's already taken he will be likely willing to go on a date. Men's standards are way lower than women's will ever be.

Nobody has to feel bad for you because you can’t attract a woman.

Ultimately that's true nobody owes anyone anything before basic human decency but not about a lack of sex or even relationships it's about loneliness, the same loneliness someone feels when they have nobody they can rely on when times get tough or they need a helping hand.

Men are conditioned to be self reliant but it's almost impossible to be completely self reliant so men often turn to their partners for support since society doesn't like it when men complain.

[–]Ceazer4LNo Pill 0 points1 point2 points 5 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]corey____trevorRed Pill Man 23 points24 points25 points 5 months ago (19 children) | Copy Link

Do they think it’s fair that women have periods, go through pregnancy, deliver babies painfully and breastfeed while all they do is nut?

Three out of your four examples are only relevant to women who get pregnant and have kids. Do you think sex comes easier to a man with a vasectomy? If not, then those aren't the real reasons that sex is more challenging to get for men.

And we all know sex does not come easier to a man with a vasectomy. So they aren't really relevant to the "unfairness" of sex discussion. Because any man who doesn't even want kids, still has the exact same challenges.

The fact of the matter is the vast majority of men are not attractive to the vast majority of women, while the reverse is not true. That's the unfairness that men complain about.

Is there a way to solve it? Probably not.

[–]YveisGreyPurple Pill Woman[S] 7 points8 points9 points 5 months ago (18 children) | Copy Link

[–]corey____trevorRed Pill Man 19 points20 points21 points 5 months ago (14 children) | Copy Link

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[–]corey____trevorRed Pill Man 7 points8 points9 points 5 months ago (6 children) | Copy Link

OK, this assumes that everybody’s having sex not to ever have kids which doesn’t make any sense

No it doesn't. They can just have as much sex with protection as they want until they want to have kids. The men with vasectomies can provide them that safely. Yet they don't, why is that?

How could women collectively solve this problem by only having sex with men who have vasectomies if women did that nobody would have kids and we’d all die out as a race

Okay, well now women are choosing to go through with reproduction, which sort of removes the unfairness, no? The whole point of things being "unfair" is when there is no recourse to fix that lack of fairness. You're not just describing women self-selecting themselves into this "unfairness". They could adopt, they could foster, etc. But most women actually prefer to have their own kids. They prefer to go through all this unfairness you describe. Hmm, strange.

Men who struggle with getting sex in many cases don't have ways to improve that unfairness because the vast majority of women just simply will not have sex with them. On the other hand, women who are afraid of reproduction can simply use condoms, birth control, abortions or seek out men who are infertile or have had vasectomies and could have all the sex they want with basically no consequences.

[–]YveisGreyPurple Pill Woman[S] 1 point2 points3 points 5 months ago (5 children) | Copy Link

No it doesn't. They can just have as much sex with protection as they want until they want to have kids. The men with vasectomies can provide them that safely. Yet they don't, why is that?

Some women have sex with men who have vasectomies and many women use contraception. But that doesn’t mean they’re gonna want to have sex with any man just because they’re using contraception because there’s another factor to having sex which is that you would enjoy it. You would be attracted to the person you have sex with and you would have an orgasm. So a man simply having a vasectomy doesn’t automatically make him attractive to a woman and doesn’t mean that she would enjoy having to have sex with him.

Okay, well now women are choosing to go through with reproduction, which sort of removes the unfairness, no?

Women choosing to have children doesn’t remove the unfairness because they’re still going through pregnancy and delivery. The “unfairness” is biological, reproduction is more costly for women than it is for men because women get pregnant.

The whole point of things being "unfair" is when their is no recourse to fix that lack of fairness.

There is no recourse if a woman wants to have a child she must bear it if a man wants to have a child he just has to nut in a fertile woman.

I guess you could add the scenario of a woman not being able to have a child and then having to get a surrogate. But look at that? Surrogacy is very expensive. Isn’t it interesting how if a woman wants another woman to carry her child she has to pay that woman 50-60 thousand dollars and yet men are out complaining about how hard it is to date women?? I am a woman and if I wanted a woman to carry my baby, I have to pay her tens of thousands of dollars, but a man thinks I should carry his baby for free 🤔

Men who struggle with getting sex in many cases don't have ways to improve that unfairness because the vast majority of women just simply will not have sex with them.

Oh well. They aren’t entitled to it.

On the other hand, women who are afraid of reproduction can simply use condoms, birth control, abortions or seek out men who are infertile or have had vasectomies and could have all the sex they want with basically no consequences.

Okay and? The offset of that is men who have children nutted in a fertile woman, and women who have children went through excruciating labor and delivery or they have to pay tens of thousands of dollars to another woman to go through that

[–]corey____trevorRed Pill Man 8 points9 points10 points 5 months ago (4 children) | Copy Link

But that doesn’t mean they’re gonna want to have sex with any man just because they’re using contraception because there’s another factor to having sex which is that you would enjoy it.

Ah see now you've just admitted it. They aren't refusing sex with these men due to the reproductive risk, they're doing it because they aren't attracted to these men and thus wouldn't enjoy it. Just like I said in my first comment. If it was simply the reproductive risk, they have numerous options to solve that unfairness but are choosing not to use them.

Women choosing to have children doesn’t remove the unfairness because they’re still going through pregnancy and delivery. The “unfairness” is biological, reproduction is more costly for women than it is for men because women get pregnant.

To use your own words, they aren't "entitled" to children. They can simply choose not to have children.

There is no recourse if a woman wants to have a child she must bear it if a man wants to have a child he just has to nut in a fertile woman.

They aren't entitled to children. If a man wants a child, and he can't find a woman willing to bear that child, he has no recourse either. Is that unfair?

I guess you could add the scenario of a woman not being able to have a child and then having to get a surrogate. But look at that? Surrogacy is very expensive.

How is that any different for a man or a woman? Plus they could adopt or foster. If we are talking surrogacy than a man and a woman are in the exact same boat.

I am a woman and if I wanted a woman to carry my baby, I have to pay her tens of thousands of dollars, but a man thinks I should carry his baby for free 🤔

I am a man and if I wanted a woman to carry my baby, I equally would have to pay her tens of thousand of dollars. This is the same for men and women.

It's interesting how your comment drips with women being entitled to having children, why do you feel they have that entitlement? Why are women entitled to children but men aren't entitled to sex, and therefore children?

[–]YveisGreyPurple Pill Woman[S] 5 points6 points7 points 5 months ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Ah see now you've just admitted it. They aren't refusing sex with these men due to the reproductive risk, they're doing it because they aren't attracted to these men and thus wouldn't enjoy it.

Well, yes, but that’s a function of biology. The reason women aren’t as attracted to men as vice versa is because sex is risky for them. The fact that we can mitigate that risk with technology doesn’t change our instincts.

And even with that, it still doesn’t make sense to say it’s unfair. Men want to have sex with women because they’re attracted to those women and because they’re pretty much guaranteed an orgasm women don’t want to have sex with men because they’re not attracted to them and they probably won’t have an orgasm.

So what’s the unfairness here? it’s unfair that the woman doesn’t wanna have sex when she’s not going to enjoy it as much as the man? Men act like they’re doing women some kind of charity by wanting to have sex with them 😂. They are only doing themselves a favor.

Just like I said in my first comment. If it was simply the reproductive risk, they have numerous options to solve that unfairness but are choosing not to use them.

But that isn’t true women use contraception all the time so they are choosing to mitigate the risk of reproduction.

To use your own words, they aren't "entitled" to children. They can simply choose not to have children.

I didn’t say women are entitled to having children. Acknowledging that women who have children went through more than the men did to bear those children, is not saying that women are entitled to having children..

They aren't entitled to children. If a man wants a child, and he can't find a woman willing to bear that child, he has no recourse either. Is that unfair?

Again, I never said anyone was entitled to children. My point is it’s easier for a woman to have a child because it’s harder for her to bear a child. It’s harder for a man to have a child because it’s easier for him to “bear it”.

Like most people would rather borrow money than lend money. Because lending your money is inherently risky, to offset that risk you can do a credit check and charge interest.

The one seeking to borrow cannot be upset or call it “unfair” that the one lending their money is hesitant, especially if there’s no interest of course they’re going to be worried. They have a right they could lose their money.

How is that any different for a man or a woman? Plus they could adopt or foster. If we are talking surrogacy than a man and a woman are in the exact same boat.

Well, yeah that’s what I’m saying if a man wanted a woman to carry his child via surrogacy he would have to pay tens of thousands of dollars yet he wants any random woman to take the risk of carrying his child for free? It doesn’t make sense. Of course it’s going to be harder for him to find somebody willing to be bear his child than it would be for her to find somebody willing to nut in her!

It's interesting how your comment drips with women being entitled to having children, why do you feel they have that entitlement? Why are women entitled to children but men aren't entitled to sex, and therefore children?

Nobody is entitled to children however women bear children. They have more control over the situation because they are the one’s taking on the burden.

[–]corey____trevor6 points 5 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Well, yes, but that’s a function of biology. The reason women aren’t as attracted to men as vice versa is because sex is risky for them. The fact that we can mitigate that risk with technology doesn’t change our instincts.

So again, you just agree with me. It's not reproductive risk, it's that women instinctually do not find most men attractive enough.

And even with that, it still doesn’t make sense to say it’s unfair. Men want to have sex with women because they’re attracted to those women and because they’re pretty much guaranteed an orgasm women don’t want to have sex with men because they’re not attracted to them and they probably won’t have an orgasm.

How wouldn't it be unfair for a say a virgin? This guy has literally never even had the chance to give a woman an orgasm, and she's choosing not to have sex with him because other men haven't been able to give her one? That seems pretty unfair for that guy.

Honestly I'm getting tired of this convo because at this point you've moved the goalposts so far back and you've backtracked so much you've basically agreed with every point I've made accidently.

[–]YveisGrey1 point 5 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

So again, you just agree with me. It's not reproductive risk, it's that women instinctually do not find most men attractive enough.

Sure, but that’s not “unfair”. That was actually my point. We know why women are this way. It makes perfect sense given biology. Therefore it is not “unfair” and men need to get over it.

How wouldn't it be unfair for a say a virgin? This guy has literally never even had the chance to give a woman an orgasm, and she's choosing not to have sex with him because other men haven't been able to give her one? That seems pretty unfair for that guy.

If she’s not attracted to him, she’s probably not gonna have an orgasm. I think it’s way more than unfair to tell a woman that she should have sex with somebody she’s not attracted to so that he has a chance at an orgasm with a woman. And let’s not pretend that men want to have sex with women so that the women can have orgasms, come on now. Like I said, you’re acting like men generally want to have sex with women out of charity, but that’s not why they want to. It’s literally self-serving.

Honestly I'm getting tired of this convo because at this point you've moved the goalposts so far back and you've backtracked so much you've basically agreed with every point I've made accidently and don't even realize it.

I didn’t move the goal post at all. I explained very clearly what my position was and you started going into “but what if somebody doesn’t wanna have kids” and now I had to explain to you why that’s irrelevant.

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As a woman, and especially after dating several red pilled men, I can see that men also suffer from being put into rigid roles and being expected to perform a certain way. Not just red pilled men, but most men.

I’m also aware of how high male suicide rates are, and of the pressure many decent men put on themselves. I’ve seen my dad suffer unnecessarily because of society’s idea of how men should be. I watched him neglect his health and die early under the pressure to be successful, even when my mother, who also had her own job, asked him again and again to work less. He just felt he couldn’t.

I’m in this sub because I’m trying to understand male issues, even among the bitterness I read here. I already understand women’s issues very well, and it’s obvious that both sexes suffer in ways that are not intuitive to the opposite sex.

When I date, I try to be open and honest about how I feel, and to leave behind the gender role of being coy or “pure.” If I feel chemistry, I say so. I ask questions to get to know him. I show interest in his life. I ask him to see me.

I also try to check in with the men in my life and ask if they are okay, even my boss at work.

I honestly don’t think current gender roles will fully change in our generation, but understanding each other could be a start. We’re very defensive right now. Men and women will always be different, and there is a lot to love and a lot to be annoyed by in each other.

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I’ve seen no such study that indicates that.

"Furthermore, Individuals with high levels of neuroticism are inclined to post negative comments and feedback on social media" https://www.researchgate.net/publication/373034122_Mapping_Personality_Traits_to_Customer_Complaints_Framework_for_Personalized_Customer_Service

Higher levels of neuroticism positive correlated with complaints about ones own cognitive aging. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34882062/

"Analysis revealed significant positive correlations between neuroticism, rumination and worry. Neuroticism, rumination and worry also correlated positively with somatic complaints" https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30400997/

If you want something direct just remember that basic logic of A=B, B=C therefore A=C. If you need help with the logic A is women, B is neuroticism and C is complaints.

[–]Corbast7Blue woman / Feminist + Leftist / no war but class war 0 points1 point2 points 5 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Your first two links also show that trait agreeableness and conscientiousness have correlation with complaining less about other things, and even giving praise instead (agreeableness for that point). Both those traits are ones that women score higher on than men do. So no, I still don’t see any direct casual link between women’s self reported neuroticism and objectively being bigger complainers.

If you want something direct just remember that basic logic of A=B, B=C therefore A=C. If you need help with the logic A is women, B is neuroticism and C is complaints.

So it seems then that you’re oversimplifying this a lot, and have cherry picked these things to reverse engineer a result that you want. That’s not scientific at all. Maybe care about studies that address a topic directly, instead of coming up with your own tangential conclusion.

I can’t access the full text to your 3rd study, but I don’t see how men reporting less somatic symptoms is a great example. Men refusing to seek out help from a doctor seems to stem from the same reason a lot of men refuse to ask someone for directions: asking for help makes them feel vulnerable and weak. Meanwhile if we go by how men complain on ppd, they come in here with an overconfident tone more often than with a vulnerable one.

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[–]Corbast7Blue woman / Feminist + Leftist / no war but class war 1 point2 points3 points 5 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]No_Self_2165Red Pill Man 8 points9 points10 points 5 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Corbast7Blue woman / Feminist + Leftist / no war but class war 0 points1 point2 points 5 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I think when men say dating is unfair etc., they don’t emotionally complain but state a cold truth from a neutral perspective.

So in other words, men get to claim for themselves that their logic is sound and has no holes to be poked in it? That’s exactly what I mean dude.

Being a cynic doesn’t somehow make you non-emotional, and men are also not machines; they are humans with their own biases. There’s no scientific, biological basis for the men here to possess some intellectual superiority that they’d like to think they have. It’s just hubris.

Because unlike women men are often helpless about the things they vent about.

This is pretty vague. I can think of plenty of examples of when the opposite is true.

Point is, humans will complain about whatever they believe is unfair. The cool thing about (well moderated) debate spaces is that people can be forced to face pushback on what they say. Unlike how it is in an echo chamber, where you’re getting camaraderie from people who’re similar to you and calling you based and smart-pilled.

[–]Haunting-Stage5132 0 points1 point2 points 5 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Haunting-Stage51326 points 5 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]stuffesonNo Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 5 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I know this might be a bit of a sidetrack.

I agree with your point that men in general speak less about their "emotions" and instead talk about what their opinion is (based on the emotion they just had). But i think you are wrong in saying it is because men see emotions as "feminine". I think this is an unfortunate "trope" that most feminist/bluepill people have, that men spend all of their energy on avoiding things labeled as "feminine". That is not true and doesnt bring the discussion forward.

Emotions in general are just ways for your body to automatically/subconciously call you towards an action. Men are in general more focused on problem solving and the action. Essentially men focus their energy on finding the thing that can resolve the emotion. If I am angry, my energy goes towards fixing what makes me angry. Whilst I think women are more focused on recognizing and communicating about their emotions. Which I think is superior if you are more focused on social connection. Whilst I think mens way of dealing with it is better if you want to problem solve.

[–]Corbast7Blue woman / Feminist + Leftist / no war but class war 0 points1 point2 points 5 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]alphamaker420nuance pill woman 1 point2 points3 points 5 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Joining a movement of complaining men to complain is about as passive and bitch made as it gets. You need other men to back you for you to say how you feel and are too scared to do it without guaranteed approval and pats on the back. There are even men in here who say they only whine about this stuff online because they're scared of how they'll be perceived by people in person. Women complain but at least we turn our complaints into action hence the feminism movement and women sticking to their standards.

Calling women bitches is just evidence of how men dehumanize women. It's just plain misogyny because men complain and are overly emotional sometimes too but they illogically declare their own emotions as logic and see women as second class citizens. This whole sub is made for men to bitch and moan about how they can't get laid and how emotional they are about it lol. Just because you see yourself and your own whining as above women doesn't mean women do it more. Both genders complain.

[–]Dependent-Tailor7366Blue Pill Woman 1 point2 points3 points 5 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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The case you mentioned is an exception men rarely get falsely accused of rape. I actually don’t know any man who’s been falsely accused of rape, but I do know women who have been raped.

“Abortion against a man’s will” please again the only reason a man would even want the woman to have the baby is because he doesn’t have to have the baby! And he probably won’t be taking care of the baby. Let’s be real. It’s like when a 5 year old wants a dog. They won’t actually do the work of training of caring for the dog they just get to play with a cute dog. I would want the baby too if I didn’t have to push it out of my vagina!

The average child support payment is like 500bucks that wouldn’t even cover daycare which is close to 2k a month for 5 days a week so if a woman is caring for her child full-time or most of the time he’s not even paying her for that he’s not even paying for half of that

[–]Additional-Case43928 points 5 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]PsykotyrantInfinite Dark Void Pill 11 points12 points13 points 5 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]YveisGreyPurple Pill Woman[S] 2 points3 points4 points 5 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Any man would get instantly laughed out the room, much to women’s delight, if he were to claim to have been raped by a woman. That is one thing women are extremely happy to keep as it is.

By other men. Let’s be real. Also when women accuse men of rape they often get called liars and the get shamed for it. Don’t act like everyone automatically believes a woman just because she claims assault.

If abortion is so risky, why does it seems like some women are addicted to it?

Women aren’t addicted to it. Abortion is risky but less risky than carrying a pregnancy to term. When a woman gets an abortion it doesn’t affect a man’s physical health at all in fact she could do it without his knowledge. He could never even know she was pregnant

Men can sue all they want, the extremely heavily slanted justice system will tell them to fuck right off.

No they don’t. If they actually have custody they can get child support. Men know it’s much harder to care for a child full time than it is to just make a monthly payment. Also custodial parents spend on their children as well. Most women aren’t getting child support payments large enough for them to quit working. The child support payments are supplemental they do not cover the full cost of childcare so these single moms spend just as much if not more of their own money on their children every month

[–]corey____trevorRed Pill Man 7 points8 points9 points 5 months ago (14 children) | Copy Link

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[–]GameKyuubi15 years pill-free 1 point2 points3 points 5 months ago (3 children) | Copy Link

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[–]GameKyuubi15 years pill-free 0 points1 point2 points 5 months ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

OK and plenty of men are biologically drawn to fighting the good fight to beat out the other man and get the woman. Plenty of men love competition.

Lol how is this "fighting the good fight"? It's not fighting for some noble cause this is fighting to get off, more like two drug addicts fighting over the last ball of heroin.

Plenty of men love competition.

Yeah and those guys prefer to compete in sports, not scrap over their supposed girlfriend every night because another dude is trying to take their penis-pleaser. You're comparing Do you think we like fighting, stuff being stolen or the threat of that? We didn't fight because we love it we do that because we have to in a world where people like you expect us to do that. Why do women have babies? Because they choose to, knowing the consequences beforehand. What you actually mean to compare to is how some women enjoy rape. Not cnc, but actual rape. There's some small, nonzero number. This is more accurate because in both cases the transgression is without permission, can get violent/get you killed if you fight back, and you have something important taken from you if you lose. This is what guns are for. Nobody likes that shit.

I’m saying it’s a bit tone deaf to complain about technically having it easier

The tone police can get bendt. Also I'm not arguing that women technically have it easier I'm arguing that it's part of a process many women would consider desirable despite the inconveniences. And like that's WHY they fight it's either from selfishness or to prevent some bad result jfc it's a meaningless accusation but I'm not the one being tone deaf here.

In any case being the woman is harder but because it’s harder for us we get to a be little more picky

This almost makes sense except it's fine to be as picky as you want for whatever reason you want. It has nothing to do with fairness, clearly. You risk more when you have unprotected sex, I get it and that's fine. But that definitionally means there's less people with a sexual partner and thus more people complaining. I'm not talking about how it should be or blaming anyone really I'm talking about why this situation is the case. That's all.

And realistically, we don’t even get to be that picky because men have historically just tried to control our sexuality anyways.

What does "we don't get to be that picky" even mean here lol

[–]YveisGreyPurple Pill Woman[S] 1 point2 points3 points 5 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]UpbeatInsurance5358Purple Pill Woman 0 points1 point2 points 5 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]These-Sport-421Red Pill Man 9 points10 points11 points 5 months ago* (18 children) | Copy Link

[–]YveisGreyPurple Pill Woman[S] 10 points11 points12 points 5 months ago (17 children) | Copy Link

I didn’t say women were forced to do that. Pregnancy is simply a risk they take having sex. And responding to that by saying well, they can get an abortion??

OK, so let’s see he gets to cum in her and she gets to have an abortion. Yet, you can’t understand why she would be less willing to engage in that then he would?

This is what I mean it’s literally easier for men. All you have to do is nut of course it’s going to be harder for you to get her to agree to let you do that when she risks pregnancy or an abortion or not even just not cumming.

People act on incentives. Men have more incentives to want sex with women than vice versa.

It’s not unfair that women aren’t wanting sex with most men it’s unfair that women carry the burden of reproduction. The true unfairness is the biology that makes reproduction costly for women. The response to this unfairness is women being more selective.

For the average man dating is not harder than giving birth so they need to get over it

[–]These-Sport-421Red Pill Man 10 points11 points12 points 5 months ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

When most men complain about unfairness today, they do so with reference to the preferential treatment women get in modern, gynocratic Western societies. Even in Western countries which purport to practice gender equality, men are still treated as second class citizens. Most Western country still haven't banned male genital mutilation (ALL genital mutilation should be banned), a number of Western countries still have male conscription in place, with legal penalties to enforce such conscription, Western countries spend more money on health and welfare programmes that target women more than men, Western countries have instituted gender employment quotas that favour women just because of their genders, Western universities have female-only scholarships even when women are now the majority of university students.

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[–]YveisGreyPurple Pill Woman[S] 7 points8 points9 points 5 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]These-Sport-421Red Pill Man 7 points8 points9 points 5 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Haunting-Stage5132 3 points4 points5 points 5 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]BigMadLadMan 2 points3 points4 points 5 months ago (12 children) | Copy Link

Firstly, Plan B exists. It’s literally a simple pill. No invasive surgery needed. Unless you’re gonna argue because the man doesn’t have to take the pill that is harder for women at that point you’re splitting hairs simply to claim women have it harder when they don’t.

Secondly, three out of the four things you claim are harder only apply if you have a kid or want to have a kid. You’re essentially putting consequences of a decision you choose to make applying to all women, when this is not the case. For example, 60% of women under the age of 24 are single, they don’t experience these things because they’re not having children. Therefore, the only thing that makes our life theoretically harder is having a period.

Lastly, it interesting how you select gender differences for women that are harder for specific moments in their life like pregnancy, when men have to do the majority courting, planning, financing, and essentially entire life work around supporting women. If you say a period makes up for all of that then you’re just being a whiny baby.

I’ve dated women who were on the pill and literally none of what you said applied. They didn’t have regular flow, had no cramps, and obviously didn’t get pregnant. Again, if you say that’s still harder than men because men don’t have to take a pill, I can point you to the millions of men who do have to take medication for their ailments

[–]YveisGreyPurple Pill Woman[S] 2 points3 points4 points 5 months ago (11 children) | Copy Link

Go look up the side effects of Plan B

Let’s see he gets to cum in her and she gets to take Plan B then puke and or cramp for the next 3 days and the screw up her cycle 🙄

And yes men have to court women because women take on the risk of sex. It doesn’t matter that contraception exists because for one that is mostly the burden of the women anyways but also because it doesn’t change the instincts of women.

Women didn’t “evolve” with birth control, sex simply = risk of pregnancy so they evolved to be picky. It is what it is.

Courting women is not harder than giving birth or being pregnant for 40 weeks. If a woman is going through that to reproduce why is it such a big dal that a man goes through some headache to reproduce? No one is getting an easy pass on reproduction.

Men complaining want women to take on the full burden and risk of reproduction and make the whole process a walk in the park for them 😂

It’s like asking why someone wants to check your credit score before lending you money. Um because it’s risky for them to lend it! Of course it’s easier to find someone willing to borrow money than to lend money! Of course the lender is more selective than the borrower. Men can understand that but act confused about women. 🙄

[–]BigMadLadMan 6 points7 points8 points 5 months ago (10 children) | Copy Link

*potential side effects of plan B. It’s not a guarantee, and side effect warnings are made for the off chance it can happen. I could easily argue the same thing for erectile dysfunction medication that women by nature don’t have to take, because whether you personally are affected by potential side effects is individual not gender based.

Secondly, you’re taking an argument because women didn’t evolve with it we’re somehow stuck with these preferences as if human beings can’t make choices beyond their biological programming. You’re taking an evolutionary psychology approach and a particularly dogmatic one, which has been proven to be false. By that logic men should be raping far more than they do, and we shouldn’t live in cities because we naturally evolved a hunter gather lifestyle. Yet Here we are and you’re typing on iPhone or computer because we chose to be better than our instinct

You’re still making a mistake of claiming that all women go through this when they don’t. You saying 40 weeks only applies to women who actually have children, there are plenty of women who will never have children yet you’re still giving them the credit for 40 weeks. For all men who dated those women, those women are not taking any of that risk yet men have to do the same courting Regardless.

All this essentially boils down to is would you rather take a lifetime of paying, financing, protecting, etc. or 40 weeks of hard labor. Personally, I’d much rather take the 40 weeks and be done with it.

[–]YveisGreyPurple Pill Woman[S] 1 point2 points3 points 5 months ago (9 children) | Copy Link

I’m not asking any man to take erectile dysfunction medication though women don’t generally complain about men refusing to take that medication so they can have sex.

I’m talking about the fact that men constantly complain about how hard it is to date nobody cares you either are attractive or you aren’t. You’re either willing to court or you’re not it’s literally nobody’s problem that you can’t find a date except your own. And no women don’t need to feel bad about it because we have our own shit like periods and pregnancy.

Why would women make a choice to have sex with men they are not attracted to? Sex that they won’t even enjoy? So your argument here is that we have to use our big rational brain to do something we don’t want do so that men can get off?? To make it easier for men because they have it so hard 🙄

Bringing up women who don’t have children is irrelevant it’s like me bringing up men who don’t have hard time dating, or men who don’t care that they’re not dating and who don’t have sex of course there’s always gonna be exceptions to the rule, but the majority of women do have children and it needs to be that way for the human race to continue so again it’s pointless to bring that up

Also, it’s not just 40 weeks of pregnancy first of all many women have more than one child. It’s also labor and delivery. It’s also postpartum recovery which is brutal. It’s also how many hundred periods we get in our lifetime it’s also menopause women go through a lot to reproduce physically men go through a lot to reproduce as well via competition

Men need to stop complaining about the competition aspect of it. Because they do not have it harder than women.

And I’m sorry you couldn’t be a woman 🙄 but I’m sure if you were you would realize it’s actually not that easy for us

[–]ghjcthhbg 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago (4 children) | Copy Link

You just listed pregnancy, labor, postpartum, periods, menopause, and the sheer physical brutality of female reproduction. You're describing exactly why antinatalism is correct. You're arguing that women have it so hard that men should shut up about their tiny dating woes. Great. So why would you force another daughter to go through all of that? Why would you look at your own pain and say, "Yes, let's do this to someone else"?

You say the human race needs to continue. According to whom? The human race? That's circular. A virus "needs" to spread too. That doesn't make it good.

And spare me the "exceptions to the rule" nonsense about women who don't have kids. The fact that some women escape the meat grinder doesn't mean the grinder is good. It means some women got lucky. You wouldn't say a factory with a 90% injury rate is fine because 10% of workers walked out unscathed. But when it comes to forcing new humans into existence, suddenly the exceptions prove... what exactly? That you're comfortable gambling with someone else's life?

You don't give a shit about women. If you did, you'd be furious that any woman has to go through pregnancy, labor, postpartum, periods, and menopause at all. Instead, you're using female suffering as a cudgel to win an argument against men. You're not protecting women. You're weaponizing them.

And the line about "I'm not asking any man to take erectile dysfunction medication"? Irrelevant. No one asked you to have sex with men you're not attracted to. That's a fantasy argument you invented so you could feel righteous. The antinatalist position doesn't care who you sleep with or don't sleep with. It cares that you think it's okay to create a new person who will one day bleed, or make someone bleed, or cry, or die.

[–]YveisGreyPurple Pill Woman[S] 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]ghjcthhbg 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

First, your argument that the "main purpose" of sex and dating is reproduction is biologically reductionist garbage. Sex and dating serve a hundred purposes that have nothing to do with making babies. Bonding. Pleasure. Emotional intimacy. Stress relief. Companionship. Two men dating aren't reproducing. An infertile couple isn't reproducing. A seventy-year-old widow finding love again isn't reproducing. Are you really going to stand there and tell them their relationships have no purpose? That's not biology. That's you being a smug asshole who confuses "evolutionary origin" with "present-day meaning." A screwdriver was originally designed to turn screws, but if I use it to open a paint can, it's still a valid use. Grow up. Second, "men who are nihilistic towards humans reproducing can shut up about dating woes." Cute. But here's the problem: wanting to date and have sex does not require wanting to reproduce. That's like saying you can't enjoy eating unless you're willing to become a farmer. Antinatalists don't oppose dating or sex. They oppose forcing new conscious beings into a world full of suffering. You can have passionate, committed, loving sex every single night with a partner you adore and still use birth control like a responsible adult. The fact that you can't separate "intimacy" from "baby-making" says more about your own limited imagination than it does about any antinatalist. Now let's talk about your "need" argument because this is where you really embarrass yourself. You say reproduction is a need for human survival on a macro scale. Fine. But here's what you're missing: antinatalists don't give a flying fuck about "human survival." Why should we? The universe doesn't care if humans exist. The planet would literally be healthier without us. "Humans dying out" is not a tragedy. It's a finale. There is no cosmic scorekeeper demanding that our species continue. You act like human extinction is the worst possible outcome. It's not. The worst possible outcome is millions more generations of suffering, war, rape, famine, cancer, heartbreak, and death — all so some people can feel like they "won" by keeping the species going.

[–]ghjcthhbg 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You say "if it's not about living who cares then we can all die right now." And? That's not the mic drop you think it is. No antinatalist is telling currently alive people to kill themselves. That's a disgusting strawman. What antinatalists say is: don't create new people who will then have to face the choice of living or dying. There's a massive difference between "I choose to keep living" and "I am morally obligated to manufacture another human who never asked to be here." You compare reproduction to water. That's laughable. Water is a need for an individual to survive one more day. Reproduction is a need for a species to continue existing. Those are completely different scales. I need water. I do not need humanity to continue. Humanity continuing gives me nothing. It gives my hypothetical child nothing except guaranteed death and probable suffering. You're trying to smuggle collective survival into individual necessity and hoping no one notices. We noticed. You don't get to tell lonely men to shut up about dating just because you've decided sex is only for procreation. You don't get to wave the flag of "human survival" like it's obviously good when you haven't made a single argument for why existence is preferable to non-existence. And you definitely don't get to compare having a baby to drinking water when one keeps you alive and the other drags an innocent person into a burning building. You want to have kids? Fine. But don't pretend it's a need. Don't pretend it's selfless. And don't you dare tell anyone else their pain doesn't matter because you've crowned yourself the queen of biological purpose. You're not deep. You're not wise. You're just another natalist who can't face the emptiness so you're filling it with other people's lives.

[–]ghjcthhbg 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago (3 children) | Copy Link

And no pointing out that some women don't have kids isn't irrelevant. It's proof that not reproducing is possible. You're the one treating childbearing as mandatory. That's not biology talking. That's ideology.

You don't actually care about women's suffering. You care about winning a suffering Olympics against men. Because if you truly cared about female pain, you'd be the first person saying: "Why the fuck would I inflict this on a daughter?"

But you're not. You're just bitter that men complain while you hurt more. That's not moral clarity. That's resentment with a biological excuse.

And for the record no one's asking you to sleep with men you're not attracted to. That's a strawman you built so you could burn it down. The antinatalist position has nothing to do with your sex life. It has everything to do with why you think suffering is noble just because it keeps the species breathing.

You ended with "I'm sorry you couldn't be a woman." Cute. I'm sorry you couldn't be a person capable of thinking two steps past your own resentment. If you were a man, you'd be exactly the kind of whiner you claim to despise. And if you were an antinatalist, you'd realize that your entire rant every painful, exhausting, brutal detail is the best argument for never having another child ever again.

[–]YveisGreyPurple Pill Woman[S] 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]ghjcthhbg 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

You say I misconstrued your argument. Let me read it back: "The reason men have it harder finding mates is because reproduction is more costly for women. That is just a fact of life." Cool. That's not a fact. That's evolutionary psychology pop-science you swallowed whole and are now regurgitating as gospel. The "cost" of reproduction isn't some fixed ledger. It's socially manufactured, historically weaponized, and conveniently ignores that men have been financially destroyed by divorce, family court, and child support for decades. You want to talk cost? Try losing half your paycheck, your house, and access to your kids because a judge decided you're just an ATM with legs. That's a pretty fucking high "cost" for a reproductive process you claim men have it easy in. But fine. Let's grant your premise. Let's say reproduction is more costly for women. That doesn't explain dating disparities. It explains why women might be selective. It doesn't explain why lonely men are mocked, why male suicide is through the roof, why millions of young men have completely checked out of dating while being told they're the problem. You've confused biological logic with human misery, and you're using the former to dismiss the latter. That's not wisdom. That's callousness in a lab coat. Now here comes the antinatalist part, from a man's mouth. You say you're happy to be alive. Good for you. Genuine happiness is rare. But here's what you're missing: your happiness doesn't justify forcing someone else into existence. You want to have children someday? That kid might be happy. Or they might be the lonely man you just dismissed. They might be the woman who dies with a baby stuck in her pelvis. They might be the soldier, the suicide, the statistic. You don't get to roll those dice with someone else's life just because you enjoy sunsets and chocolate cake. And don't give me "stop projecting your existential crisis." That's a lazy ad hominem. I'm not projecting. I'm observing. You just said men should accept their suffering in dating because biology says so. That's not antinatalism. That's fatalism. I'm the one saying if the game is rigged to produce this much pain lonely men, dying women, broken families maybe don't force new players into it. You're the one saying the rules are harsh but you like playing, so everyone else should too. That's not wisdom. That's a gambler telling a room full of bankrupt addicts that the casino is beautiful. So from one man to you: you don't get to explain away male loneliness with "biology" and then act shocked when men check out of a system that treats them like disposable providers. And you don't get to call yourself pro-life while enthusiastically endorsing the very reproductive process that crushes people including your own future daughters under its heel. Accepting reality doesn't mean praising it. And pointing out that childbirth is hard doesn't make you deep. It makes you a spectator at your own funeral, clapping for the coffin.

[–]YveisGreyPurple Pill Woman[S] 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]No-Rough-7390Red Pill Man 4 points5 points6 points 5 months ago (30 children) | Copy Link

Say that you will, but as a new dad with a newborn who made the decision to go above and beyond in every way possible to see what all this “mental load” and “housework/childcare” stuff was about, nothing triggers other women more than when I comment that it’s really not that hard at all. Sleep deprivation is real, but everything else is laughably easy and repetitious. Which only confirms my previous idea that most women are neurotic that they will ruminate and create their own work and issues to make things seem grander than they are. Don’t get me wrong, being a good parent is likely the best thing you can do in the world, but it’s also not quantum mechanics.

I also think it’s rich than men not wanting to have their kids killed gets psyoped into wanting to control women sexually. Okay. 👌

[–]YveisGreyPurple Pill Woman[S] 6 points7 points8 points 5 months ago (22 children) | Copy Link

You weren’t pregnant, you didn’t give birth, you aren’t recovering from giving birth and you aren’t nursing so already you’re making a false comparison. I didn’t even really bring up taking care of an infant because theoretically anyone could do that even though it’s usually women.

And what do you mean caring for an infant isn’t that hard? Is nutting in a woman harder? Because that’s the comparison buddy. A woman has sex gets pregnant, gives birth, cares for an infant. A man has sex and nuts. So who had it easier?? Obviously the man which is why many more men are willing to nut in women vs women willing to risk or get pregnant for men. The hard part for men is getting the woman the hard part for women is carrying the babies. So now we can go one more step, is dating a woman that much harder than birthing a child? No. Yes men have to court women yes this can be frustrating but again this should be expected because the ultimate goal of dating is she breeds your child which is a lot of work for her and literally a euphoric experience for you.

When “not having your kid killed” means another human has to grow them inside of their own body and birth them yes it is trying to control another person, by definition that’s what it is. In those cases a man is literally saying “go through this thing physically that only you will experience, take on every risk associated with it, so my kid doesn’t die.” It’s not men’s fault they don’t get pregnant but they have to acknowledge that they aren’t the one going through it so it’s unfair to demand a woman do so.

[–]No-Rough-7390Red Pill Man 4 points5 points6 points 5 months ago* (21 children) | Copy Link

“Fed is best” means we can push aside nursing since more and more women don’t feel like doing it and big formula’s psyop is working. So let’s say the mother isn’t nursing, is the road you really wanna go down that fathers that go above and beyond are still nothing more than superfluous? That motherhood must be some trial by fire hell and not a pleasant experience that can be done far easier than people whine about if you remain active?

As someone that’s dove into the trenches and taken on every responsibility and more in order to be able to accurately say so, I can tell you that parenthood and taking care of a newborn is EASY (aside from sleep deprivation). The fact is that most people are too cracked out on dopamine to be able to handle repetitive tasks that machines largely take care of.

If women want to peddle the 50/50 narrative, then why work so hard to debunk it immediately once someone counters the Tik Tokified victimhood narrative?

Realize, I’m not talking about pregnancy or child birth. I’m saying taking care of a newborn and third worlder home tasks are NOT VERY HARD. And if it was, you wouldn’t be able to outsource it to anyone like many services do.

Edit: and I think any response to the contrary only shows that the hormonal crash women experience after child birth, unfortunately, must delegitimize at least somewhat of their experience because it’s an acknowledgment that they cannot objectively comment on what is happening. It’s all viewed through an incredibly tainted lens, which only is a further testament to their vulnerability but also reliance on the father in those time periods.

[–]YveisGreyPurple Pill Woman[S] 5 points6 points7 points 5 months ago (20 children) | Copy Link

”Fed is best” means we can push aside nursing since more and more women don’t feel like doing it and big formula’s psyop is working. So let’s say the mother isn’t nursing, is the road you really wanna go down that fathers that go above and beyond are still nothing more than superfluous?

I never said that. I said that women are pickier. They have to find these men who are actually willing to help out with the kids, or who have enough money to provide so she can stay home with kid etc.. otherwise she will be burdened with providing, caring for the kids, on top of bearing them. So the woman has it more difficult than the man and that is why she is more selective than the man and more reluctant than the man. You aren’t really arguing against my case.

That motherhood must be some trial by fire hell and not a pleasant experience that can be done far easier than people whine about if you remain active?

I’m sure motherhood is wonderful as well but that doesn’t change the fact that role of the mother is more work than the role of the father. In this game of reproduction the woman does more, she expends more, she risks her life. It is what it is.

As someone that’s dove into the trenches and taken on every responsibility and more in order to be able to accurately say so, I can tell you that parenthood and taking care of a newborn is EASY (aside from sleep deprivation). The fact is that most people are too cracked out on dopamine to be able to handle repetitive tasks that machines largely take care of.

Again you keep bringing up taking care of an infant but I was talking about pregnancy, labor, and delivery. Obviously you can’t say that is easy because you never did it. 🙄 I can tell you as a woman just having a period every month isn’t easy. I’ve been on the pill for 1 year now and I can’t believe how much easier it is just not having a monthly period. The PMS, the cramps, the bleeding, the nausea I don’t miss any of it. But unfortunately I’ll have to get off these pills and have periods again if I want to try for a baby with my husband.

If women want to peddle the 50/50 narrative, then why work so hard to debunk it immediately once someone counters the Tik Tokified victimhood narrative?

50/50 what? And who is women? I never said jack about 50/50 because I don’t believe in that. A man should do more and provide more because a woman bears life. That’s what I believe and that’s how I live. I never felt bad for men paying for dates, vying for my affection because I am a WOMAN. I fully embrace the fact that men should be chasing me, I know my value. And when I met my husband he paid for dates, bought flowers and gifts, he gave me a diamond ring, all of that because he knows my value and he appreciates me as a woman. God willing we have children I know he will actually respect what I go through instead of taking it for granted.

Realize, I’m not talking about pregnancy or child birth. I’m saying taking care of a newborn and third worlder home tasks are NOT VERY HARD. And if it was, you wouldn’t be able to outsource it to anyone like many services do.

Yes I know you conveniently leave out the part that ONLY the woman goes through in order to dismiss what women go through.

Edit: and I think any response to the contrary only shows that the hormonal crash women experience after child birth, unfortunately, must delegitimize at least somewhat of their experience because it’s an acknowledgment that they cannot objectively comment on what is happening. It’s all viewed through an incredibly tainted lens, which only is a further testament to their vulnerability but also reliance on the father in those time periods.

Again what? The fact that women go through a hormonal crash is just another example of how women have it HARDER and how men should have to work harder to get with women.

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Huh? The maternal mortality rate is the lowest it’s ever been. And yes an unhealthy woman will face higher risk of complications in pregnancy but that’s the point. Pregnancy comes with risk, all women aren’t optimally healthy nor is that a reasonable expectation for women. Unhealthy men exist as well but do not face any risks associated with pregnancy because they don’t experience it.

Also it’s is not true that maternal mortality is purely a result of women being “unhealthy”. There is also a shortage of OBGYN in many areas especially rural areas and there is also a lack of postpartum care. The weeks after giving birth are critical and many women die from complications after delivery.

Yes, men face higher rates of violence and homicide inflicted, mostly by other men, that’s not really a problem women can solve.

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[–]mooncake_bitesBlue Pill Woman 0 points1 point2 points 5 months ago (6 children) | Copy Link

If you were truly going above and beyond, you wouldn’t have time to be arguing with strangers on Reddit. I’m childless but helped both my brother and sister with their newborns and even I don’t dare say that. I did not have time to be on my phone when I helped watch my nieces and nephews. I was only on my phone when I recorded how many mL they drank, what time they slept, whether they burped or not, or to look up anything if I didn’t know what to do. My brother would be livid if he saw your post. He apologized to my sister after going through it himself and mind you, this is without the pain of having your pussy ripped open or your stomach sliced up, opened, with your organs removed then put back in and stitched up with a C-section. If you truly went above and beyond, you’d also be aware it depends on your newborn. You clearly didn’t do your research. Some babies are easier than others. My niece slept through hours at a time, my nephew woke up every hour. Assuming your wife actually is doing her part (but even then it’s hard), a lot of the women talking about mental load don’t have their partner supporting them. You would at least acknowledge doing it all by yourself would’ve been infinitely harder, right?

[–]No-Rough-7390Red Pill Man 1 point2 points3 points 5 months ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Duh, that’s why single parenthood is pretty pretty bad for everyone involved. And sure, there are better experiences and worse experiences. My sisters in law were super premature twins and my in laws went through hell and back to keep them healthy and to get them home.

But we are talking about averages here. And the way people will fight to keep this narrative alive that parenthood must be hell, that you can’t get ahead of things, and that the majority of the work is anything beyond repetitious third worlder work that much of can be done by machines is pretty absurd. (Other than the sleep aspect)

Fun fact about newborns. They sleep. A LOT. I have time to do all kinds of things even when he’s sleeping in my arms. He’s sleeping in one of his bassinets next to me right now. Sounds like people need to stop with the self limiting beliefs. I’m sorry your brother had such a hard time, but he needs to level up.

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[–]ghjcthhbg 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That's a gatekeeping tantrum. You don't get to decide who has "truly" done enough parenting to have an opinion. Plenty of exhausted parents still scroll their phones at 3 AM while the baby finally sleeps. Your brother being "livid" doesn't make you right. It makes you both tired and defensive.

You just described in graphic detail a pussy being ripped open, a stomach sliced, organs removed and put back in, newborns waking every hour, sleepless nights, tracking milliliters, and a brother apologizing after experiencing it firsthand. And your conclusion is what exactly? That this is beautiful? That it's worth forcing on another human being?

Every single hardship you listed is a reason not to have children. You're describing suffering, not justifying it. The fact that some babies are "easier" than others doesn't make the hard ones okay. It means you're gambling with someone else's life. Would you play Russian roulette with a newborn's skull because "some chambers are empty"? No. But that's exactly what you're defending when you say "some babies sleep through the night."

You're not childless because you're enlightened. You're childless by circumstance or choice, but you're still out here defending the very system that would destroy your body and your sleep and your sanity if you ever joined it. You're like a person who never jumped off a cliff but spends all their time arguing that cliff diving is actually fine because some people survive the landing.

You don't get a medal for helping with your niblings. You get a pat on the head and the quiet realization that every exhausting, tear filled, sleep deprived, pussy ripping, organ shifting horror you just described is exactly why antinatalists say: Don't start this in the first place.

Nothing you said, not one word, justifies creating a new person who will one day either push a baby out of a torn body or watch someone they love do it. You're not defending life. You're defending a cycle of suffering you've witnessed up close and somehow still can't recognize.

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No, I see all people complaining and I admit that everyone complains. I just think that men complaining about this specific subject is very tone deaf. It’s like listening to a rich person complain about how hard it is to be rich.

What’s even more crazy is them following up their complaints with demands that women lower their standards or have sex on the first date. 🙄🙄🙄

Then they act like we’re “so lucky” but that’s because they ignore all the stuff that we go through as women like having periods, getting pregnant, all the risks that come with being pregnant and the symptoms, giving birth, recovering from giving birth, nursing all of this is very difficult. It’s not easy and we do it because we have to. We’re the only ones who can do it. So we’re not lucky that we can have sex easily. It’s a function of the fact that we just do all the reproductive labor.

Basically men should not complain about dating unless dating for them is literally as hard as it is for a woman to be pregnant, give birth, and nurse a child. Do you think dating is that hard for the average man? I don’t think so. So literally they are the lucky ones and they should be happy to help women in any way they can.

I’ve been thinking about this more and more because I’ve been learning more about pregnancy as it may be my reality pretty soon and it’s crazy all the things that can happen to you from pregnancy like losing your calcium, losing teeth, getting diabetes m, tearing your vagina open, having a siezure. There are all these things that can happen to you from being pregnant and giving birth a lot of which are life-threatening some of them can cause permanent damage to your body and men are literally sitting up here complaining that nobody wants to bone them?? Like what?

To be somewhat fair to them though maybe they just literally have no idea what women are going through. I mean I didn’t even know half these things until I started looking into it and my friends started having kids. Now my eyes are open and I’m like actually men are lucky and women do not complain enough they make it seem like pregnancy is a walk in the park when it is not.

[–]RandHommanPurple Pill Man 3 points4 points5 points 5 months ago (29 children) | Copy Link

It’s like listening to a rich person complain about how hard it is to be rich.

Lol, we could talk about this for hours. Like how women complain about the way they dress but most clothing stores are for women, they have all color range and sizes, textures, shapes. Society accepts women dress almost however they want yet will complain about not being able to go half naked. That's pricezely your point. Men see it as vain and tone deaf.

Women have all birth controls available to them, are able to abort at almost any stage giving them an opt out window of months compared to nothing for men. Women can even abandon their children, can, just like men, not have sex with the opposite sex, or sterilize themselves yet will complain they lack options and will put all blame on men.

Women have all the options available to them dating wise yet will complain there is no good choice for them. You are basically a the living version of too many choice is like having no choice. Maybe you should have less.

[–]YveisGreyPurple Pill Woman[S] 1 point2 points3 points 5 months ago (28 children) | Copy Link

[–]RandHommanPurple Pill Man 2 points3 points4 points 5 months ago (17 children) | Copy Link

Well, paying child support for your kid is the responsible thing to do. But let's not talk like it's nothing. Some men are put in prison for failing to pay child support. Once in prison they can't pay but the amount they owe still pile up and that's how you get people in jail for a very long time for a system that doesn't care about this issue. No help, when these men fail we put them in prison... women pay even less child support when they're the deadbeat parent but no woman has been put in jail for failing to do so.

Other times it's because of other circumstances. For example the amount they have to pay was decided when they had a better job, if they lose that job but find a new one that pays less, often times the amount remains and then it gets complicated, they have to take more than one job, risk of burnout and injury is higher and also risk of ending up in jail.

Sometimes they do get injured and can't continue working, but the payments have to continue. Sometimes the kid isn't even theirs yet they still have to pay. Sometimes they are raped and still have to pay child support because our society thinks women, even if they rape a kid, can still give birth and claim child support.

Sometimes the man didn't consent to have a child, he could have been irresponsible, or even if he was, like contraception can fail. It's ultimately the woman's decision if he ends up paying child support.

And like I said, women themselves don't pay their share of owed child support when they're the parent that leaves.

I think women just decide on a whim whether to have a child or not regardless if the man they've been with wants it or not because they know child support is there. If there was a form of financial abortion for the man these women wouldn't make these decisions on a whim and would probably think this through.

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No, everyone complains about dating. I’m not talking about that. I’m talking specifically about men complaining about how “unfair” it is for them. Like what’s unfair? The only true unfairness is what women go through since they literally risk death giving birth. For men to be on par they’d be risking their life to have sex. Basically having sex for a man should be as hard as having a baby is for a woman, that is the level of difficulty they should expect. But it’s not even that hard for most men meanwhile most women bear children. My friend just had a baby and was in labor for 50hrs. My cousin had a baby 1 year ago and actually almost died! It’s actually insane how dangerous it is to have a baby with modern medicine let alone in the past. Yet men complain about “fairness”🙄

Men are literally complaining about technically having it easier but being overall less successful at reproducing which is literally a function of having it easier than women. The proof is in the pudding

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You don’t know shit. Men bore the exclusive risk of being slaughtered in war, dying in manual labor accidents, and being subjected to brutal physical violence as the primary enforcers and victims of the honor culture. If we view life through the lens of physical danger and labor, men faced a different kind of hell. Universal Conscription (The Blood Tax): In the year 1000, if a lord waged war, the men were called up. Peasant men were handed a spear and told to stand in a shield wall against professional warriors. The mortality rate for men in battle was catastrophic. Women were rarely killed in battle, but men were slaughtered in droves. Backbreaking Labor: Men performed the most dangerous physical labor. Clearing forests, plowing heavy soils, felling timber for construction, and deep-sea fishing were incredibly dangerous. A man's body was a tool that was used up by age 40, riddled with injuries. Expendability: In a famine, who ate first? Often the male laborer, because he needed the calories to work. However, in a societal collapse, men were the first to be killed or exiled. A village could absorb a few extra women; a village without men could not defend itself. Violence and Justice: If a man insulted another man, he might face a blood feud or a trial by combat. Men were expected to absorb physical violence to defend their honor. If a man was poor, he had no protection he was at the mercy of any knight or lord who wanted to use him for labor or sport.

[–]YveisGreyPurple Pill Woman[S] 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]ghjcthhbg 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Wrong. Let's talk about exclusive risks since you love that word so much. Men have been forcibly conscripted to die in wars since the beginning of recorded history. You didn't see draft dodgers getting their fingernails pulled out for refusing to push a baby out. Men who refused to fight? Executed. Imprisoned. Cast out. Their families shamed. You had a choice to get pregnant no man in 1916 had a choice about Verdun. Let's talk about work. Men died building every bridge, every skyscraper, every tunnel, every mine shaft you've ever driven through. Cave-ins. Explosions. Crushed. Burned. Dismembered. And when they came home missing limbs? No sympathy. Just "man up and find another job." Meanwhile, you want a trophy for surviving something your own body was literally designed to do — and yes, sometimes it kills you, and that's tragic, but don't pretend it's the same as 18-year-olds being handed a rifle and told to run into machine gun fire. Let's talk about violence. Men are overwhelmingly the victims of homicide worldwide. Men are overwhelmingly the victims of workplace fatalities like 93% of them globally. Men are overwhelmingly the ones who die by suicide at rates 3 to 4 times higher than women. And you know what the world says? "Lol, toxic masculinity, get therapy." But when a woman has a hard pregnancy, suddenly it's a global crisis. You want to compare a few months of risk (yes, real risk I'm not denying it) to a lifetime of being treated as expendable? Men are still sent into the most dangerous jobs. Men are still the first ones drafted if a war breaks out tomorrow. Men are still expected to die so women and children can live that's literally the protocol. And your big counterargument is "childbirth hurty"? Please. You don't want equality. You want your specific pain to be the only pain that matters. Men have been bleeding, dying, and being thrown away for thousands of years without a single monument that says "sorry we treated you like firewood." And the second a man points it out, you screech about a baby stuck in a pelvis.

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Why would they? Why would someone rise above their own instincts to sleep with someone they don’t find attractive?

Thought experiment: you have an attractive partner you love. They get involved in a freak fire accident that destroys their face, making their entire head scarred. Should they try to get over their 'animal instincts' or just abandon their partner?

Don’t be ridiculous people date to eventually have sex. Men complain all the time on this sub about women merely waiting to have sex now you think women will just date endlessly without sex?

Well, you keep acting like they're the exact same thing. I've been told by women that they can become attracted to men they weren't previously attracted to through getting to know them, are you saying this isn't true?

And to answer your question, no women wouldn’t change if artificial wombs existed because that wouldn’t override their instincts to be selective also the existence of artificial wombs doesn’t remove the possibility of pregnancy for women anyways

Why are men expected to rise above their animal instincts while you don't expect the same of women?

[–]YveisGrey1 point 5 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Thought experiment: you have an attractive partner you love. They get involved in a freak fire accident that destroys their face, making their entire head scarred. Should they try to get over their 'animal instincts' or just abandon their partner?

That’s a completely different scenario than what we were talking about. In this instance you already love them and are bonded to them, presumably you wouldn’t have to rise above any instinct to continue doing so. That’s how pair bonding works. Many couples continue to love each other and have intimacy even as their looks fade with age and life experience.

We’re talking about women engaging in casual sex. Why does a woman need to rise above her instincts to have sex with a man she doesn’t love, like, desire, or find attractive? You have yet to answer that one

Well, you keep acting like they're the exact same thing. I've been told by women that they can become attracted to men they weren't previously attracted to through getting to know them, are you saying this isn't true?

If a woman dates a man and grows attracted to him over time that doesn’t change anything about my position or my argument. Presumably she would decide to have sex with him after becoming attracted to him. It makes sense that some women would take their time to become attracted to a man as that would allow her to get to know him. Being immediately ready for sex is not beneficial to a woman.

Why are men expected to rise above their animal instincts while you don't expect the same of women?

What are men’s instincts in this context? A man can be attracted to women instinctively that doesn’t mean all those women have to have sex with him. My argument is men can’t just expect women to have sex with them just because they want sex.

[–]ghjcthhbg 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Reproduction does not explain everything about why men and women behave the way they do. That is lazy evolutionary psychology that ignores culture, individual variation, and the fact that humans override biology constantly. People choose not to have kids. People adopt. People have sex for pleasure with zero reproduction in mind. Humans are not chimpanzees. Stop using biology as an excuse for every social dynamic you dislike.

It does matter what individuals do. Hiding behind the aggregate is a convenient way to dismiss anyone who does not fit your narrative. The aggregate is made of individuals. Every single one of those individuals has their own desires, fears, and choices. Hiding behind statistics just means you do not want to deal with messy reality. That is lazy thinking.

It is not unfair that women are not attracted to most men. Fine. But calling the burden of reproduction "unfair" is nonsense. Unfair implies someone designed it that way. No one did. Nature is not fair or unfair. It just is. Complaining about the unfairness of reproduction is like complaining about gravity.

Women's selectivity is a response to biological cost. That is true. But using that truth to dismiss male loneliness entirely is not logic. It is taking one fact and using it to bludgeon an entire gender. Male loneliness is real. Male rejection is real. Telling men to just get over it because someone else has it worse is the same as telling a woman in labor to stop screaming because someone else has cancer. It is cruel and stupid.

For the average man, dating is not harder than giving birth. There is no way to measure that. Pain is subjective. Rejection is subjective. Loneliness kills people. Suicide rates among men are through the roof. Comparing apples to a C section and declaring yourself the winner of a contest no one else is competing in is ridiculous.

Women do not need to feel bad about men's dating struggles because they have periods and pregnancy. That is emotional blackmail. Having your own suffering does not erase someone else's. By that logic, a woman with stage four cancer should feel no sympathy for a woman with a broken leg. That is absurd.

[–]YveisGreyPurple Pill Woman[S] 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Reproduction does not explain everything about why men and women behave the way they do.

I never said it did but it does explain some things about human behavior

That is lazy evolutionary psychology that ignores culture, individual variation, and the fact that humans override biology constantly.

This isn’t about individuals it’s about men and women in general. Not all men complain about dating not all men even struggle with dating. I explained why dating is harder for men in general and it’s because the burden of reproduction falls on women.

People choose not to have kids. People adopt. People have sex for pleasure with zero reproduction in mind. Humans are not chimpanzees. Stop using biology as an excuse for every social dynamic you dislike.

You can’t escape biology. You exist as a biological entity.

It does matter what individuals do.

Not in a discussion about human behavior at the population level.

Hiding behind the aggregate is a convenient way to dismiss anyone who does not fit your narrative.

I’m not hiding this conversation is about the aggregate.

The aggregate is made of individuals. Every single one of those individuals has their own desires, fears, and choices.

Okay and?

It is not unfair that women are not attracted to most men. Fine. But calling the burden of reproduction "unfair" is nonsense.

No it’s not. It is unfair. Men nut women go through 40 weeks of pregnancy, labor and delivery and nurse. It’s not even a question who is taking on the burden.

Unfair implies someone designed it that way. No one did. Nature is not fair or unfair. It just is. Complaining about the unfairness of reproduction is like complaining about gravity.

Okay then call it uneven. Call it a burden. Who cares what you call it? It doesn’t change the fundamentals of what I’m saying. If all one person does is orgasm and the other goes through pregnancy, extreme pain and injury delivering a baby, + feeding the child with their body OBVIOUSLY the latter person will be harder to get as a mate. So no I don’t feel bad for men having to do or be something to get women.

Women's selectivity is a response to biological cost. That is true. But using that truth to dismiss male loneliness entirely is not logic.

Yes it is. These men want women to take the cost in exchange for nothing. They are the one’s being dismissive. You want a woman? Bring something to the table because it cost her to be with you.

It is taking one fact and using it to bludgeon an entire gender. Male loneliness is real. Male rejection is real. Telling men to just get over it because someone else has it worse is the same as telling a woman in labor to stop screaming because someone else has cancer. It is cruel and stupid.

No it’s not. Because solving male loneliness requires women to do what? Take on the cost of reproduction for NOTHING? 😂 see a woman in labor doesn’t have anything to do with another woman having cancer. Her problem can’t be solved by the one with cancer. A man complaining it’s hard to date women, he wants easy access. He wants women to lower the standards to access but she still pays the cost. It’s like walking into a store and asking for free shit. Are you gonna pay the shop keepers bills?

For the average man, dating is not harder than giving birth. There is no way to measure that. Pain is subjective. Rejection is subjective.

Yea we can’t measure it because men don’t give birth but guess what? women do get rejected, cheated on, abused and all other nonsense dealing with men. So all that is in addition to childbearing.

Women do not need to feel bad about men's dating struggles because they have periods and pregnancy. That is emotional blackmail.

Nope. That’s what the men are attempting to do to women. Women should not feel bad about it, feeling bad about it is just a way to emotionally blackmail women into being with men they don’t want to be with. When I say women shouldn’t feel bad I mean that we have our own things to be concerned about and we don’t owe these men anything. If these lonely males had actual empathy they would feel bad for women and understand why they have to bring something to the table to be with one instead they complain about not getting free or cheap sexual access. Nobody feels bad for these men except themselves

[–]ghjcthhbg 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

2: "I never said it did but it does explain some things about human behavior"

It explains almost nothing once you stop treating people like lab rats. You point to pregnancy and say see, that's why women are picky. But most sex is not for reproduction. Most women spend decades trying not to get pregnant. You are explaining a world that barely exists anymore with rules from a cave.

2: "This isn’t about individuals it’s about men and women in general. Not all men complain about dating not all men even struggle with dating. I explained why dating is harder for men in general and it’s because the burden of reproduction falls on women."

In general is where honest arguments go to die. You claim the burden of reproduction explains dating difficulty. Then explain lesbians. Explain childfree women. Explain women who date men but have no intention of breeding. Your generalization only works if you ignore every woman who does not fit your victim narrative.

2: "You can’t escape biology. You exist as a biological entity."

You exist as a biological entity who can take a pill, get a vasectomy, have an abortion, adopt, or just stay celibate. Biology is not a dictatorship. It is a starting point. You are the one choosing to bow down to it and call that realism.

2: "Not in a discussion about human behavior at the population level."

Population level is just a thousand individuals you refuse to look at. Every time someone says well not me, you wave your hand and say aggregate. That is not science. That is laziness.

2: "Okay and?"

Okay and that means your aggregate is not real. It is a spreadsheet. Real people have real reasons that are not reducible to uteruses and sperm. If you cannot account for the individual, you do not understand the population. You are just averaging ignorance.

2: "No it’s not. It is unfair. Men nut women go through 40 weeks of pregnancy, labor and delivery and nurse. It’s not even a question who is taking on the burden."

Unfair to whom? Nature? There is no judge. You are complaining about a biological process as if someone wrote bad rules. But here is the antinatalist punchline: the real unfairness is that anyone is born at all. You want to talk about burden? The burden is existence. Pregnancy is just one vile part of it. Using that burden to then justify male effort is like saying because fire burns, you should pay me for water. It is non sequitur dressed up as justice.

2: "Okay then call it uneven. Call it a burden. Who cares what you call it? It doesn’t change the fundamentals of what I’m saying. If all one person does is orgasm and the other goes through pregnancy, extreme pain and injury delivering a baby, + feeding the child with their body OBVIOUSLY the latter person will be harder to get as a mate. So no I don’t feel bad for men having to do or be something to get women."

You still assume the goal is to get a mate. Why? Why is the endgame reproduction? You are arguing from inside the very trap antinatalism wants to dismantle. You say women are hard to get because pregnancy is hell. I say stop trying to get them. Stop playing the game. Your whole framework collapses the moment someone says no thanks to the whole breeding circus. And until you question that, you are not a thinker. You are just a natalist with a grudge.

2: "Yes it is. These men want women to take the cost in exchange for nothing. They are the one’s being dismissive. You want a woman? Bring something to the table because it cost her to be with you."

What table? What cost if she never wants kids? You are assuming every woman is a potential breeder and every man a potential breeder. That is not biology. That is ideology. And a disgusting one at that. You are not defending women. You are reducing them to their reproductive capacity and then calling that respect.

[–]ghjcthhbg 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

2: "No it’s not. Because solving male loneliness requires women to do what? Take on the cost of reproduction for NOTHING? 😂 see a woman in labor doesn’t have anything to do with another woman having cancer. Her problem can’t be solved by the one with cancer. A man complaining it’s hard to date women, he wants easy access. He wants women to lower the standards to access but she still pays the cost. It’s like walking into a store and asking for free shit. Are you gonna pay the shop keepers bills?"

You just compared women to stores. Congratulations. You have become the very misogynist you pretend to oppose. A woman is not a shop. Her body is not currency. And male loneliness is not a demand for free sex. Some men just want to be seen, touched, loved. You mock that because you have decided every lonely man is a rapist in waiting. That is not logic. That is hatred wearing a biology textbook as a mask.

2: "Yea we can’t measure it because men don’t give birth but guess what? women do get rejected, cheated on, abused and all other nonsense dealing with men. So all that is in addition to childbearing."

So because women suffer in other ways, men are not allowed to mention their own suffering? That is the oppression Olympics. You do not win by dismissing pain. You just become another source of it. Women being abused is real. It is also irrelevant to whether a lonely man is allowed to feel sad. Two things can be true. You refuse to hold both because you prefer rage.

2: "Nope. That’s what the men are attempting to do to women. Women should not feel bad about it, feeling bad about it is just a way to emotionally blackmail women into being with men they don’t want to be with. When I say women shouldn’t feel bad I mean that we have our own things to be concerned about and we don’t owe these men anything. If these lonely males had actual empathy they would feel bad for women and understand why they have to bring something to the table to be with one instead they complain about not getting free or cheap sexual access. Nobody feels bad for these men except themselves"

You have built a straw man the size of a planet. No one is asking women to feel bad. No one is asking for cheap sexual access. The request is simply to stop mocking male loneliness as if it is a crime. You cannot demand empathy for women while celebrating the absence of empathy for men. That is not morality. That is tribalism. And tribalism is just biology again. You claim to rise above it. You have not. You have just picked your team and called the other team animals.

So here is the antinatalist conclusion that ends your entire argument: reproduction is a catastrophe. It ruins women's bodies. It ruins men's minds. It creates loneliness, competition, resentment, and every bitter word we have exchanged. The only honest response to that catastrophe is not to argue about who owes whom. It is to stop bringing children into this meat grinder. You want to solve male loneliness? Stop raising boys to believe they must compete for female approval to be human. You want to solve female burden? Stop making pregnancy the center of any sexual relationship. You do neither. You just scream about unfairness and call it truth. It is not truth. It is just another baby crying for attention.

[–]ghjcthhbg 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Most women have children and it needs to be that way for the human race to continue. Needs to be? According to whom? The human race is not a person with desires. It is a species. Species go extinct all the time. The universe does not care. Treating human survival as a sacred duty when it is just a biological accident is just fear of death talking.

Women go through periods, pregnancy, labor, postpartum, and menopause. Yes. Men go through different things. They die younger. They are more likely to be homeless. They are more likely to die on the job. They are more likely to be victims of violence. They are expected to compete, provide, and shut up about their feelings. Comparing lists of suffering is a game no one wins. Do not pretend your list automatically wins.

Men need to stop complaining about competition because they do not have it harder than women. That is not an argument. That is a command. No one is the suffering referee. No one gets to decide whose pain counts. Men are allowed to complain. Women are allowed to complain. Everyone is allowed to complain. Shutting men up because you think your pain is bigger is just bullying.

Being sorry that men could not be women as if being a woman is the only valid experience of hardship is narcissistic. Men have hardships that will never be experienced by someone who refuses to see them. The fact that you cannot see them does not mean they do not exist. It means you lack imagination and empathy.

If men were women they would realize it is not that easy for women. Fine. If you were a man, you would realize it is not that easy for men either. But you will never admit that because admitting it would mean sharing the victim podium. And you clearly want it all to yourself.

Here is the bottom line. This is not a philosophical argument. It is venting resentment at men and dressing it up in biology. Every single point boils down to: women suffer more, so men should shut up. That is not a debatable position. That is a tantrum. And tantrums do not require debunking. They require ignoring. You are not right. You are just loud.

[–]YveisGreyPurple Pill Woman[S] 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Most women have children and it needs to be that way for the human race to continue. Needs to be? According to whom?

I literally said what it was needed for 😂 and that’s according to the laws of nature. Reproduction is necessary for the survival of a species.

The human race is not a person with desires. It is a species. Species go extinct all the time. The universe does not care.

Ok and? I didn’t say the universe cares. I said reproduction is necessary for human survival that is a fact.

Treating human survival as a sacred duty when it is just a biological accident is just fear of death talking.

Where did I say it was sacred? 🤔

Women go through periods, pregnancy, labor, postpartum, and menopause. Yes. Men go through different things. They die younger. They are more likely to be homeless.

“Different things” 🙄

And any of those could happen to a woman. Could as in is possible. Men will never go through what women do they can’t.

They are more likely to die on the job. They are more likely to be victims of violence. They are expected to compete, provide, and shut up about their feelings. Comparing lists of suffering is a game no one wins. Do not pretend your list automatically wins.

This wasn’t really about comparing suffering it was an explanation for why it is easier for women to find mates compared to men.

Men need to stop complaining about competition because they do not have it harder than women. That is not an argument. That is a command.

Yes it is. 😂 take notes and shut up already

No one is the suffering referee. No one gets to decide whose pain counts. Men are allowed to complain. Women are allowed to complain. Everyone is allowed to complain. Shutting men up because you think your pain is bigger is just bullying.

No it’s self defense. We women have no obligation to make it easier for men to have sex with us. That’s what the men complaining want us to do.

Being sorry that men could not be women as if being a woman is the only valid experience of hardship is narcissistic.

I never even said that I was strictly talking about mating. Yes in the mating game clearly women have more of the burden. Again what is the point of arguing with facts??

Here is the bottom line. This is not a philosophical argument. It is venting resentment at men and dressing it up in biology. Every single point boils down to: women suffer more, so men should shut up. That is not a debatable position. That is a tantrum. And tantrums do not require debunking. They require ignoring. You are not right. You are just loud.

Sure it is no one wants to hear people who have it easier complaining. That’s why no one cares about men’s dating woes 😂 except the incels complaining.

[–]ghjcthhbg 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

2: I literally said what it was needed for 😂 and that's according to the laws of nature. Reproduction is necessary for the survival of a species. Necessary for survival according to whom? The species doesn't have a will. The universe doesn't have a goal. You are mistaking a mindless process for a command. Reproduction is a cause of suffering, not a solution to it. The species surviving is not a moral good. It is just more bodies to feel pain. 2: Ok and? I didn't say the universe cares. I said reproduction is necessary for human survival that is a fact. A fact about what? About a species that has no inherent value. Human survival is not an end in itself. You treat it like the point of everything, but the only honest question is whether being born is worth it. For most people, the answer is no. So let the species go. It would be mercy. 2: Where did I say it was sacred? 🤔 You didn't use the word. But you talk about reproduction as if it is the foundation of all meaning. That is sacredness without a church. You cannot build a morality on a biological accident and then pretend you are just describing facts. You are worshipping survival. Own it or drop it. 2: "Different things" 🙄 Yes, different things. Not worse. Not better. Different. You roll your eyes because you have already decided that pregnancy and periods are the only real suffering. That is not logic. That is a victimhood contest you rigged before the fight started. 2: They are more likely to die on the job. They are more likely to be victims of violence. They are expected to compete, provide, and shut up about their feelings. Comparing lists of suffering is a game no one wins. Do not pretend your list automatically wins. Then stop pretending your list wins. You brought up pregnancy to silence men. I brought up male suicide, homelessness, workplace death, and violence to show you that every body has its own hell. You want to stop comparing? Then stop using your list as a bludgeon. Otherwise, admit you are just picking and choosing which suffering matters.

[–]ghjcthhbg 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

2: Men need to stop complaining about competition because they do not have it harder than women. That is not an argument. That is a command. Exactly. A command. You are not explaining. You are ordering men to shut up because you have decided your pain is the only pain that counts. That is not feminism. That is not biology. That is just you being the suffering police. And nobody elected you. 2: Yes it is. 😂 take notes and shut up already Laughing and telling people to shut up is not a counterargument. It is what people do when they have nothing left. You have run out of logic. Now you are just being rude and calling it confidence. 2: No it's self defense. We women have no obligation to make it easier for men to have sex with us. That's what the men complaining want us to do. Self defense against what? A man saying he is lonely? That is not an attack. That is a confession. You are so busy defending against a fantasy of sexual coercion that you cannot hear a human being saying I am in pain. No one asked you to make sex easier. They asked you to stop mocking the pain. That is not the same thing. You know it. 2: I never even said that I was strictly talking about mating. Yes in the mating game clearly women have more of the burden. Again what is the point of arguing with facts?? The point is that the mating game is not the only game. You keep dragging every conversation back to mating because that is where your argument works. But most of life is not mating. Most men's loneliness is not about sex. It is about being unseen, unwanted, and told to shut up by people like you. That is not a fact. That is your cruelty. 2: Sure it is no one wants to hear people who have it easier complaining. That's why no one cares about men's dating woes 😂 except the incels complaining. You just admitted it. No one cares. That is not biology. That is not truth. That is a choice. You choose not to care. You choose to mock. And you dress that choice in the language of evolutionary realism so you can feel righteous instead of cruel. But I see you. You are not right. You are just another person who decided that some suffering is worthy of contempt. That is not antinatalism. That is just being an asshole with a smirk.

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Well, let me put it this way. I think it’s fair for women to complain more because they have more to complain about.

I think men complain too much considering they don’t have to go through as much as women do.

It’s like being poor and watching a rich person complain about how hard it is to be rich. Like please stop.

No it’s not harder to not have a period every month. I have a distinct memory of going through puberty and talking to my friends about it and I’m like having these debilitating cramps for my period every month and my guy friend is like I had a wet dream and I’m like holy shit I’m literally having a period every month and this guy is just having an orgasm in his sleep like that’s what puberty is for a boy vs a girl

And it’s not even women are all desirable and everybody wants to date all women. So a woman could have a similar dating experience to a man where most people don’t really wanna date her on top of having all of the stuff that women just naturally have like period cramps.

Now I could understand complaining here and there, dating is hard. But there’s now a whole “manosphere” around this stuff. There’s like a whole movement around this one complaint, about “how hard men have it.” And it’s to the point that some people are even trying to pretend that men are more oppressed than women 🙄🙄🙄 It’s actually annoying at this point. It is even become political where we have commentators talking about. How can we make it easier for men to get laid? What policies should be put in place

I feel like more is being done to try to get men girlfriends than is being done in women’s healthcare. It’s kinda crazy. It’s not harder for the average man to date a woman than it is for the average woman to go through pregnancy and delivery so please stop you literally have it easier. And men shouldn’t even feel bad having to do what they have to do to date women they should expect to do more and they should do it happily because they already have it easier.

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https://np.reddit.com/r/AverageHeightDudes/comments/1qxs05k/height_doesnt_matter_57_edition/

It depends on some of the guy’s immutable characteristics. So if you’re 5’7”, see videos like this, no women ever approach you, women don’t match you in online dating, heavy women complain about guys like you (I think it’s about over if obese women don’t act easy for you), and approaching women doesn’t seem to work, then I imagine that leads to the “incel” pipeline

The “misogynist” pipeline is when a lot of women react to highly predictable stuff, mostly related to looks, exercise, banter, confidence, hanging out alone, reading body language, “getting lucky” with timing based on how in the mood she is, and maybe being “popular” by e.g. playing a casual sport

Whereas women can leverage smv so hard that many don’t even approach guys because they know they’ll always get a “yes”. They’re highly likely use body language, physical touch, inviting him to hang out, or whatever to “get his attention”, but not actually directly ask him out, which is kind of annoying sometimes

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Yeah and who is overwhelmingly in charge of these “laws and systems”?

Not me, and not anybody like me. A rich, middle-class, Oxbridge-educated man or woman who hasn't lived in the real world for years, or maybe even their whole life. The fact they might often have the same genitalia as me is irrelevant.

Calling pregnancy a self inflicted problem is being flippant.

Pregnancy is self-inflicted. In a free society, no woman is compelled to have a child. Complaining about the hardships is like a man voluntarily joining the army and then grumbling about how exhausting and dangerous it is. There are few things more self-inflicted than pregnancy because there are so many ways to avoid it. Contraception, the morning after pill, abortion, abstinence... for something so terrible yet so easily avoidable, it seems to be extremely popular, especially amongst women.

Many of things I listed (like education, conscription, mental health) are not self-inflicted.

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