Why do people pretend they don't know why couples don't want to be raising multiple kids?

mercuryg · 2019-02-09T12:51:42+00:00

This is not nice. Adults want to come home to a quite house.

I think it's blatantly obvious why kids make people unhappy but no one wants to say it. It's because we have an unrealistic view of what parents are capable of. To put it really simply, taking care of the home and kids is a job, it's always been. It's easier now because vacuums and dishwashers, but it's still a job. Then when both parents have full time jobs, there's three jobs in total and only two people to do them. Parents are working themselves to the bone doing 1.5 jobs, becoming miserable in the process, because of simple arithmetic, two is less than three. It's really that simple. Think of any newly moms and dads you know and tell me they didn't look stressed out of their minds around the clock.

Can someone explain to me how we figured that 2 = 3? I'm not even trying to sound anti-feminist now, i'm just very curious, because something doesn't add up here.

passepar2t · 2019-02-09T12:39:11+00:00

Politicians and parents are pushing parenthood for very different reasons.

Politicians are trying to keep the economy from becoming too top-heavy, the tax base from eroding, social programs from becoming unfundable, and so on.

Parents are either trying to convince themselves that they made the right choices, or get perplexed and offended by childless people same way some religious people get perplexed and offended by atheists. Obviously, I'm excluding parents who keep their mouths shut.

czerdec · 2019-02-09T19:08:11+00:00

Raising a kid isn't done for the parent's benefit. Not if you're doing it right. Raising an only child is, more often than not, inferior to the option of raising a kid with siblings. Kids who grow up without siblings have serious issues dealing with other people.

Stop reading now if you don't want to hear some hard truth:

Be childless or have a real fucking family. No half measures.

MercedesBenzoAMG · 2019-02-09T12:37:28+00:00

It's funny you know. I say I don't want kids and on one hand I get parents telling me I am missing out on the most fulfilling experience ever and I'll regret, and on the other hand I got parents telling me I'm selfish because I'm not willing to put in the hard stressful work that raising a child ensues.

Of course I've seen enough families and been around enough horrible screaming children in public to know that the latter is the truth, not the rose tinted glasses view of the former.

And sure call me selfish all you want, I won't argue. I am selfish. But I don't get why anyone has kids at all. I understand evolution blah blah, but I mean from the perspective of an individual, what makes them look at kids and decide they want one. I don't get it and I never will.

Personally though I think the most selfish people are those who have kids they don't bother to raise properly. Which is most parents nowadays. They let their kids do whatever and don't even parent them. Having a kid is a huge responsibility. Deciding to do it when you know you cba to look after them or don't have the money is actively harmful.

We as a society need to stop just pressuring everyone to have kids and instead say to people - look, having kids is a huge lifelong commitment and a fuckload of hard work, consider if you're up to that before you have them.

There are simply people who are not made to be parents. But most of them have kids anyway due to social pressure.

GradualDecomp · 2019-02-09T16:45:42+00:00

Like most divisive issues today, the powers that be seem to always overlook the most obvious answer (or at least a major contributor). Economics. I see these dumb articles every day. "Why is there so much political unrest? Why are young millennials still living with their parents? Why aren't older millennials having children? Why are traditional industries dying? Why are young people less indulgent than their parents?"

Everything from video games, to immigrants, to feminism, to Mr. Rogers is blamed, ignoring the fact that they don't have any fucking money. Housing prices are higher than ever, college debt cripples them, job security is a thing of the past for many careers and trades. Income inequality is soaring. Basic healthcare is a luxury.

The old model of "study hard, go to college, get married, buy a house, have 3 kids, live happily ever after" is a pipe dream for most young people these days.

TheSuperStink · 2019-02-09T15:44:20+00:00

I don't have kids, don't want kids, and will never have kids. You can give me all the economic, cultural and personal reasons you like, but it's not happening.

Don't like it? TS.

Uncommon_Sensed_1234 · 2019-02-09T14:09:17+00:00

Raising kids is miserable and people want you to share in their misery. The saying "misery loves company" comes to mind.

In the US, at least where I live, kids run the show. The couple cater to their kids, the kids control adult conversation when visiting and then you have to pretend to find their obnoxious little shit delightful.

At resteraunts you are expected to sit quit and enjoy your meal after the waitress seats that family, and you know the one I'm talking about, who has the nonstop screaming child who can't be placated by coloring, games or French fries. Just screams or the parents just ignore the screaming.

Same thing with movies.

For years after I was married, people my husband knew would approach us in grocery stores would state "about time for kids" to pressure us.

Women at my work would call me selfish for not wanting kinds.

Family put pressure on us.

Finally we just told everyone my husband had a vasectomy in his early twenties. Still did stop some from re-asking.

"See what you are missing out on?"

The societal pressure to conform was very real back then. But as the oldest kid in my family, ten years older than one sibling and twelve years older than the other, I already knew the truth about kids and could not be fooled.

poppy_blu · 2019-02-09T13:42:29+00:00

Mom of one here. Didn’t plan it that way but that’s how it happened. The things that people have felt entitled to say to me over the years would shock you (or maybe not).

It’s far easier now that he’s old enough to do his own thing but trust me when they’re younger, one is A LOT harder than multiples. There are no siblings to keep them entertained and occupied You’re it. 24/7.

And yes raising kids is hard. Especially when you’re raising a difficult one.* But it’s still by far the best decision I ever made. well maybe the 2nd best.

I’m not saying anyone should or shouldn’t have kids, for the record.

*Not my kid. He’s perfect.

Workaholico · 2019-02-09T12:40:31+00:00

Do they pretend tho?

I always thought it was another thing entirely. Individuals know that their groups (religion, nation, hemisphere) want and need more children, but individuals also don't want children of their own, That is it.

People are nor pretending they don't want children, they just don't want children but know the value of children to the groups they are part of.

I don't even think those women with 5 children are lying about how they children are good for them. their objectives IS having multiple children even if they are a bother. It is their dream, which is not most people's dream. That is it. There may be some people there pretending, but surely not the majority.

xKalisto · 2019-02-09T15:04:47+00:00

When you have just one kid you have to be its source of entertainment. Multiple kids can play with each other.

And kids are annoying but also super precious.

Government's desire for 2+ kids is economical.

kj1114 · 2019-02-09T16:31:58+00:00

only having multiple children if I can afford a nanny. breeding and be working class is a recipe for insanity esp for women.

GridReXX · 2019-02-09T17:11:41+00:00

I miss the days when the woman down the street could corporally discipline your bad ass kid for uprooting her flowers. It takes a village!!

reluctantly_red · 2019-02-09T20:33:54+00:00

Kids aren't nearly as bad as the OP asserts. They're actually a lot of fun. I like having kids around.

sadomasochrist · 2019-02-09T14:50:35+00:00

Small kids will ruin your health, sleep and they will scream like a dying animal for no fucking reason in the middle of the night.

This phase doesn't last long. It's the general responsibilities if you want to make a reasonable point.

When there's more than one kid they will fight. This is a considerable annoyance.

This is true.

Adults want to come home to a quite house.

This is where your whole post blows up. After you have kids you do notice something counterintuitive. A date night or day off is really enjoyable, but you still miss them.

You begin to enjoy the noise in the same way that when you walk into work, all the noises you know and associate with your workplace wake you up and get you ready for the day.

I use to drop the kids off at Grandmas whenever I had a chance before we hit stride. Now I barely ever do that, because I'd rather them humming along in the background than sit in silence or listen to music or whatever.

Kids are awesome once you stop being neurotic. They also scale well. But the first two have a steep learning curve. Most of the people that complain the most about kids are just projecting their angst and fear of missing out on affluent life goals.

You'll find the people who have had their cake and got to eat it too (I did get to do this) make a clear choice for their kids.

Source : Have 3 kids, planning on 5 and also interested in colonizing other nations.

A caveat. At least as a man, I would wish being a single (as in, raising alone, not marriage status) father on my worst enemy. Women don't seem to have this same issue, but I can't comment on that.

volmaaktgebalanceerd · 2019-02-09T12:37:54+00:00

The human condition has always uniquely been that the body reproduces but the mind tries to find ways to stop this: like what other species practices ways of contraception and has since ancient times?

Human beings reproducing is in many ways like their hair growing: they don't actually want to do this but their body just does it and they can't control it.

longacidrain · 2019-02-09T16:55:30+00:00

Because people want having kids to be this amazing thing when it in reality very difficult, stressful and financial strained. I feel like most people bugging me about kids, have them. They want their choices to be validated by their peers following them..

EmpoweredGirl · 2019-02-10T05:55:22+00:00

The only advice I can give you is that you yourself shouldn't have kids, you would not make for a very good parent. I have never come across someone I would call a good parent that didn't incidentally enjoy raising their kids, the reason why it's not nice to have kids is because so many people are incompetent parents. My Mum and her parents were amazing parents, they didn't regret having her and she doesn't regret having me. Where as my Dad and his Dad especially were shit, hence why I don't have a functioning relationship with him, and he didn't with his own Dad. My mum's side turned out very well considering they were raised in poverty, whereas my Dad's side turned out shit even through they were well to do.

Though I think I am being harsh on the general population, but most people just do not have anywhere near a healthy outlook into parenting as my Mum does. Even though she's never engaged in Red/Blue pill debate, watch much news and even heard of Reddit, she's just inherently wise. If the general public were half as wise as people like her, then this wouldn't even be an issue.

diffdedbed · 2019-02-09T13:33:38+00:00

Over 50% of couples in my country have an only child.

Country shrinking, social services will be overwhelmed, local population will usually be replaced by some population that likes to have kids. Good start.

People have been trying to pin low birth rates on everything already. There are studies, there are special programs to pinpoint and fix the hindrances. Politicians are breaking their back between blaming people and implementing special programs that are supposed to raise birth rates.

Good, you are screwing yourself by not doing this.

To me the reason seems obvious, just by looking at the parents around me. Raising kids is not nice. It used to be common knowledge that kids are a headache. No one expected parents to actually enjoy their kids for too long. It used to be ok for strangers to yell at random kids for being loud.

And you are projecting. I think a lot of younger people have been scared off of having kids by this thought and are convincing themselves they don't want kids out of fear. Well guess what, kids are quite nice, I have multiple kids and its not a headache. Do you think we've made it some 3-4 billion years with kids sucking? Do you think higher birth rates was because of bad pullout game? You just have no real clue to what having kids are like so you project your concept on those that do.

Now there's this trend of people pretending that kids are nothing but rainbows.

You mean people who don't think kids suck therefore they are lying? Jesus christ man, get over yourself. Kids are not all rainbows, but then again nothing is. Kids good well outweighs the bad though.

. This bled into the birth rate discussion in that people seem to be pretending that they don't know that kids are annoying and why couples are not eager to have them.

More personal projection.

When there's more than one kid they will fight.

Sometimes and its more of a squabble. Its not exactly a huge deal.

This is a considerable annoyance.

Lol

Small kids will ruin your health, sleep and they will scream like a dying animal for no fucking reason in the middle of the night.

People with children live longer..

https://www.statnews.com/2017/03/27/parents-having-children-live-longer/

https://qz.com/932388/a-new-study-that-shows-people-with-children-live-longer-and-the-relationship-between-parents-and-longevity-increases-with-age/

Adults want to come home to a quite house.

More personal projection. Sometimes my wife and kids are gone for a few days and its damn boring. I go to bed early cause why not, its boring.

You can get away for a while. With multiple you will be pissed for a considerable percentage of the 20 years when they live with you.

Maybe YOU will be pissed. We have family and babysitting. We get out as a couple and as a family. You see when the oldest child turns a certain age, THEY can watch the other children too!

You have worked so hard to convince yourself that children are just awful. Congratulations, you played yourself.

Sometimes childcare does suck, because its something you don't want to do at that moment, but lets take this subs favorite activity to bitch about (and most not have) sex!

What do I do for sex? I eat healthy to stay thin (sucks), I work out at the gym, even when I don't want to (like 30 mins from now on a Saturday morning, that sucks), I manscape and make sure I'm pretty (sucks, even more for women to do there), and then I get to have sex with hotter women! (Doesn't suck at all!).

See sometimes worthwhile things take.. well energy and effort you would wish you didn't have to make. Kids are one of those things. Still great. My regret isn't having kids, my regret isn't having more.

HonestyOverCivility · 2019-02-09T16:32:00+00:00

Kids are like investing for retirement: not that enjoyable in the near term, but very lucrative in the long term.

Mind you this is what studies find, not just my opinion. Kids decrease life satisfaction in the near term, but massively improve it in your later years. I’d argue this is pretty much common sense. It’s nice to have a legacy and people you can celebrate Christmas with

CrestfallenWolf · 2019-02-09T18:04:10+00:00

"It used to be common knowledge" then why were birth rates higher with that knowledge.

If it sucks so bad to have kids why do women still push to do it in there late 30s

Why are egg freezing, invitro, and fertility specialist such a large business.

If having children universally sucks why are birth rates so very different in different nations, social classes and even subgroups within nations?

Saying it "just sucks" doesn't explain falling birth rates. Google Feminism solves overpopulation second look at when The Pill was invented and look at birth rates 10 years before and after... It's not rocket surgery. All the information is there.

Edit: I had to add I laughed my ass off at the irony in your title. Ya it's OTHER people pretending, not you no no no.

daveofmars · 2019-02-09T15:07:52+00:00

I think that in any discussion about having kids, the only people you should really listen to are people who have already had kids, because they are the only ones who have actual experience on the topic.

Asking child free or a single person about kids is like asking a virgin for sex advice.

So, OP, do you have kids?

DevilishRogue · 2019-02-09T17:41:06+00:00

Raising children is great. More people would do it if they could afford it, but kids are expensive. Cost is the reason parents are having fewer children.

filamilano · 2019-02-09T19:25:12+00:00

Kids used to be raised into large families. Now everyone is highly individualistic.
Aunts & uncles no longer want to have nephews / nieces visiting.
The "good old" generation of grandparents is dying out as well replaced by bitter old dogmen and catladies.
Plus as a single guy it's very risky to invite nephews & nieces over due to people thinking you must be some sort of sick pedo.

zayelion · 2019-02-10T07:00:12+00:00

Where I live this isnt a paradox, its well understood and laughed about.

When given tons of resources creatures reproduce faster
Before the industrial revolution more family members ment more labor; higher number of resources and survival rate
Cities invert this, having children is extremely costly.

boomcheese44 · 2019-02-10T17:36:55+00:00

Honestly, people need a lot more money and resources to comfortably have children. I can't imagine both parents working jobs while having to take care of kids and a home on the median salaries everyone is getting. If you have a functional extended family, it could take off the load. But most westerners don't have that.

I'll have kids alright.im lucky to come from a culture that values extended relatives. And I married rich, so most of the pesky chores will be outsourced.i couldn't see myself doing it any other way.

rpsheepdog · 2019-02-09T12:39:06+00:00

Well I'm going to guess this is a European question because that seems to be quite the topic over there.

My troll response for the politicians is-let in more refugees in because they don't seem to have any problems artificially raising the birth rate.

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[deleted] · 2019-02-09T18:36:41+00:00

A lot of people can't afford it, and there is a narcissistic me me me culture that makes people want to spend their lives in eternal adolescence.

Personally having kids is the best thing I did, but I had PND and it's only really good once they are past the baby stage

CrestfallenWolf · 2019-02-09T19:02:24+00:00

Well on the upside you triggered this one real good 😂

https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/aotzwi/why_do_childless_people_constantly_feel_the_need/?utm_source=reddit-android

red88lobster · 2019-02-09T19:38:53+00:00

I have 3. Having more than one kid isn't that bad . Its essentially exactly the same except more expensive.

Perhaps the issue is more the systematic destruction of the family and gender roles.

Once upon a time a man could do an honest days work and provide for a wife and 8 kids .

Now it takes 3 incomes to afford a small house and the average person can barely afford to support themselves and a dog.

But who knows . Maybe it is just that kids are annoying.

NiceGuyNumber4 · 2019-02-10T15:40:22+00:00

Raising kids is expensive unless you have daddy government pay for it.

we-are-men-with-ven · 2019-02-10T20:33:25+00:00

This is my kind of area as I'm doing a degree in childhood studies.

There can be problems associated with lone children, but they are not unavoidable. It's all about the style of parenting really.

All through the 19th century and some of the 20th century, a lot of research concluded that lone children were problematic. And had a huge impact on the consensus. The huge body of research we have about it today basically points out that it's about the specific style of parenting.

For example compromise and other social skills can be honed through keeping children sociable. Lone children also get more individual attention which is obviously a bonus.

waxedmintfloss · 2019-02-11T16:20:56+00:00

It's for economic reasons. Siblings can entertain each other and train each other healthy socialization. There's even a theory that human childhood and adolescence last so long so that kids can help with chores and taking care of the younger ones. If everyone innately hated children then why would people still be having them despite access to birth control and feminism? Why do infertile couples go to great lengths to start families?

Muse_asvhedu · 2019-02-13T05:30:23+00:00

I’m a nanny, and I watch twin toddlers. Kids... aren’t terrible? It’s all about how you raise and react to them. My beans are polite (they say “please” and “thank you” and take their plates to the sink after meals), generally well-behaved (one or two time outs a day) and are all around joys to be around - and that’s according to complete strangers!

It’s all about how you regard them. A lot of people probably want to give their kids the best lives they can, and a close look at their finances makes it clear that one child is exponentially cheaper than two (childcare costs alone can run towards $28k a year or more for two young children). They’ll forgo more children so that their child can have the best life they can. I have five siblings. I know that my life would be very different if my parents only had one child to concentrate on rather than six.

whyvswhynot12089 · 2019-02-09T17:48:07+00:00

" They fuck you up, your mum and dad.
They may not mean to, but they do.

They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.
But they were fucked up in their turn
By fools in old-style hats and coats,
Who half the time were soppy-stern
And half at one another’s throats.
Man hands on misery to man.
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
And don’t have any kids yourself."

-Phillip Larkin, This Be The Verse

JezebeltheQueen5656 · 2019-02-09T19:37:20+00:00

people who talk like crotch spawn are nothing but little blessings are lying to themselves, not to people who dont want any of that. they made a mistake by following the Life Script^tm to the tee and want everyone else to follow suit.

Title	Why do people pretend they don't know why couples don't want to be raising multiple kids?
Author	filamilano
Upvotes	58
Comments	297
Date	February 9, 2019 12:30 PM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/aory4z/why_do_people_pretend_they_dont_know_why_couples/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/why-do-people-pretend-they-dont-know-why-couples.257328 https://theredarchive.com/post/257328

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