Don't hide how you feel. Men are allowed to feel sad.

theothermod · 2017-09-08T23:09:17+00:00

Hello and welcome to /r/MensRights. If you are not a subscriber of this subreddit, please take a moment to read this comment and understand what you are seeing. Likely this post that brought you here is a low quality format of a highly emotional issue - the problem with Reddit as a whole is that clickbait posts get more attention and quicker voting. So please don't judge the subreddit based on just this one post.

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Thank you for reading this and not judging us before you know more about us.

mgtownigga · 2017-09-08T19:07:50+00:00

Vain social media campaigns won't improve suicide rates – we need to listen

The question we need to ask ourselves, then, isn’t “why are men so crap at talking about their problems” but “why is our society so crap at fixing the problems that can lead to male suicide”.

Male suicide is not simply an internal problem caused by the unwillingness of individual men to talk or get help, but a complex, external issue exacerbated by our collective inability to acknowledge and address the many different problems that are known to put men on the pathway to suicide.

The social problems that can increase men’s risk of suicide include unemployment, relationship issues, being separated from your kids, financial trouble, being a victim of violence or abuse, being excluded from school, alcohol and substance abuse, long-term illness, homelessness, social isolation and mental health disorders.

Of course, in a world where all things masculine are framed as strong, assertive and independent (and all things feminine are seen as vulnerable, passive and intimately connected), our conversations about gender are inevitably shaped by the sexist belief that "women have problems and men are problems".

It simply doesn’t work to keep saying that suicidal men are the problem because they don’t talk, when we, as a society, are so hopelessly ineffective at talking about the problems men have.

But there is no point any of us posting suicide selfies telling men #ItsOkayToTalk, if we are not prepared to open our hearts, minds and ears and listen to whatever men say in response. You see, if we want to stop male suicide, it isn’t just suicidal men who need to learn#ItsOkayToTalk, it’s the rest of us who need to #LearnHowToListen.

I-Cut-Myself · 2017-09-08T19:30:17+00:00

His book "Reasons to stay alive" is brilliant, really helped me out when I was destroying myself

Forrestpg · 2017-09-09T01:38:23+00:00

The owner of the gym I train at and a very good friend of mine committed suicide on Wednesday. I'm still trying to understand it. He was 48.

KIngofHypnotoads · 2017-09-08T20:57:43+00:00

Can someone please explain to me what is so wrong with this tweet? As a 30 year old man that is alive today because I spoke to someone about my feelings instead of bottling them up as I had been for 28 years, I don't get why this is getting bashed so much. I believe that being able to speak about your emotions in the open is a show of strength, even to strangers. You are not doing it for them, fuck what they think about me speaking out, I do it for me. Because if I let this one thing that bother me fester inside without speaking about it then I am giving it the power that they want it to have. I don't frequent /r/MensRights but I am surprised by the reaction to this tweet. Maybe I am just missing a point and would like to have a conversation about it.

ancientsnow · 2017-09-08T21:23:58+00:00

Respect for any guy that has the courage to look for help.

Rethgil · 2017-09-08T19:59:17+00:00

What makes me sick generally is how any man openly expressing "negative" emotions is stereotyped negatively as a 'grumpy man' by women, and usually dismissed too. Then there's feminism that openly mocks such human feelings with comments like them "enjoying the taste of male tears".

Just look at how female emotional displays are tolerated, however extreme, in society. Women can scream at men in public, or their kids, or police, and it will usually be not thought twice about.

Meanwhile if a man cries in public, or raises his voice, or says he is angry even in a calm manner, people will often literally physically cross the road to avoid them, or step in if there's a woman being spoken to.

I think we are seriously only JUST beginning to wake up to the double standards and intolerance men face everywhere that is closely tied to male suicides and health issues, and stress. This imbalance has been there for too long.

ericfoster2003 · 2017-09-09T01:14:18+00:00

From personal experience, I am a white man. I don't and can't have problems because of my privilege. I am expected to just deal with internal struggles and stay strong for my family. If I appear weak, society will eat me. No matter what I accomplish, I didn't earn it, regardless of the pain and suffering I endured trying to succeed.

These are the things movies teach us men early in our childhood. The white addition applies to me personally but the non-race issues hold true for most other men.

I struggle to not always appear strong as I have a young daughter. I am her hero and will save her no matter what the situation is. She has softened me quite a bit but the need to appear invincible will never go away.

iSlayStrange · 2017-09-08T21:29:12+00:00

Actually it's opiate overdoses in the US now.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/overdoses-are-leading-cause-of-death-americans-under-50/

Frostii98 · 2017-09-09T05:11:23+00:00

I used to bottle everything up and never let my true feelings out. I met a nice girl, started dating, and I finally felt like I could say my feelings without getting bashed. I had so much inside. I cried a lot in front of her, and I never cried in front of anyone but my parents, literally for as long as I can remember. She broke up with me "because she needs a man, not a boy". Now I feel guilty about crying, which just makes me want to cry more. I thought I had someone to be there for me. It's rough, man.

Lethn · 2017-09-08T17:59:18+00:00

When it comes to the man haters and so on I at least know where they stand so they don't actually piss me off that much these days even though they always amaze me with how incredibly stupid they are whenever they comment on something you know where they stand.

However when I see shit heads going on constantly about how how men should 'show their emotions' more and so on I immediately want to pick a fight with them because it is inevitable if they have developed these views about men that they've then picked up all sorts of other feminist bullshit along with as well because they are often the first to try and shut down men's issues whenever somebody talks about them.

Is it me? Or has this 'show your emotions men' spam become more frequent lately? Do feminists have such a bad rep that they're desperately trying to act like they care? I'm just wondering because men have been trying to tell people about their problems for years and they always get attacked and ridiculed for it.

rhea84 · 2017-09-08T23:02:50+00:00

It sucks that there is such a social stigma against men talking about their feelings or just having certain ones like sadness or depression. It's ridiculous and stupid.

If you are depressed, you're not damaged or less of a man. It's a medical condition that needs treatment, whether it's through medication, therapy, meditation, etc.

Please remember that there are people that care and that will help and want to help should you need it. I've seen the aftermath of suicide and it destroys the people and communities that loved them. Please, please seek help if you are depressed or are having suicidal thoughts even though it can be really, really fucking hard if not impossible to ask sometimes.

If you still feel like asking for help is something you don't want to do or feel like you can't do then try a few things.

Start exercising and eating better - these have been shown to dramatically reduce depression. Speaking from personal experience it works.
Start with small things. Make your bed every morning and add things to a list that you do during the day. Small accomplishments, no matter how small improve your mood.
Do not berate yourself. Negative self talk sends us down a spiral that keeps getting more and more negative. Tell yourself you are awesome even if you don't believe it at the time. Keep doing it, keep complimenting yourself for little things it will improve your mood as well.
Forgive yourself. You're human, humans aren't perfect. Forgive yourself, make the effort to not do whatever it is you feel guilty for again, and move on.
Sleep. Get sleep. If you have insomnia try the z-quils or other over the counter sleep aids. Get yourself into a regular sleep routine if at all possible. The brain needs sleep and not getting enough messing with our whole body and mind.
Go and get a checkup at the doctors. There are tons of conditions and diseases that can cause or make depression worse. Diabetes for example.
There are anonymous ways to get help online. There are online chat rooms and there is even an online text therapy now.
Try to avoid negativity. Whether it's a specific person, the news, twitter, whatever just try to avoid it or limit contact to small amounts until you are in a better place.
Try meditation. Seriously try it. There is lots of phone apps, youtube videos, and websites that offer instructions and even guided meditation. I would suggested guided first so you have something to focus on and bring your mind back to when it wanders. If you are concerned about people "catching" you doing it, pop in some earphones when you are laying in bed although you may fall asleep.

I know it might not feel like it but you are important. Please be safe and remember there are tons of people here for you if you need them.

Do_your_homework · 2017-09-08T19:32:02+00:00

Lol. I can foresee how well that will go...

"Open up to me. What's bothering you?"

"... I've never told anyone this, but okay. My girlfriend sexually abuses me and..."

"Woah there partner. That's not a thing. You're just a whiny manbaby. Lol. Only women can be sexually abused. You're taking away from the attention that female victims need. 1 in 4 women will be blah blah blah....."

Gambizzle · 2017-09-08T21:30:06+00:00

I think one of the problems is that both men and women want us to fit into a certain model. Also, people ACTIVELY criticise mental health issues!!! ACTIVELY. We are a society where you can't call somebody a cunt because it's a part of a female body, BUT... you can call somebody a 'psycho', a 'mental', a 'screw loose', a 'few loaves short of a dozen', a 'spastic' or whatever without repremand. It's totally cool to do this to somebody when they feel like shit and can't hold onto it mentally.

I have a range of mental health conditions (which I discovered in adulthood, after being bullied heavily as a kid) and have attempted suicide multiple times (despite being a very calm, mature, high performing person at work). To be wrapped into a generic 'privileged white male' group is quite frankly insulting. I mean yes, my family has a reasonable amount of generational wealth and I'm reasonably well educated. HOWEVER... I see a therapist on at bare minimum a monthly basis, have been on some pretty hard meds and live a very different life to 'normal' people. It's difficult to explain how you're not 'shy'... you just randomly freak out in particular situations. People read it as 'shy' or lacking in social experience... something you can just 'fix' by going out a bit more. It's impossible to explain to people that you CAN'T and you'll always be an easy target for sharks/bullies.

We all have our strengths and weaknesses. My mental health is a life long battle for me. I wish I was allowed to just have a mental health condition, talk about it (without being outed for doing so) and without going through the bullying/disadvantage that I've copped in life as a result...

Fitzzz · 2017-09-08T17:52:34+00:00

Don't hide how you feel from other enlightened men. Blue pillers and women will not empathize and will probably use it against you.

TheBlackQuill · 2017-09-09T05:03:43+00:00

Imo, the reason why men committing suicide is because no one wants to be bothered to listen to their problems. The one you see on the internet whine and bitch about their problems don't necessarily want most people in the society pity them. They just want someone to listen to their grieving because they literally have no one else to talk to. If every men have someone they can talk to and listen to their problems, I think they will be much happier and care less whether or not other people in general care about them.

cynoclast · 2017-09-08T20:20:33+00:00

Our society represses emotions way to much these days that it's only acceptable to experience the positive ones and shun the negative emotions. It's an epidemic.

Depression is an emotion, like sadness, guilt, shame, joy, etc. it's when men are made to feel bad about these emotions and not show them it creates a toxic shame which leads to further depression. It's the same for anyone who's denied their emotions, m or f. Just men in society struggle with it a lot more. If you turn to other emotionally immature men it's not really validating because most men are conditioned to not talk about emotions.

Darqhumor · 2017-09-08T20:28:04+00:00

If you feel suicidal it might feel like no one will miss you when you're gone but they will feel it harshly and forever. We need you to speak up so we can help you. Let us carry you now so you can carry us later. We are all in this together and we need you.

2017-09-08T21:25:50+00:00

I always thought of it as the 'manly' thing to do is not lie to yourself. You have a duty to accept reality, including the reality of your own situation and problems. To be a man is to be a problem solver, including your own problems. That often means asking for help. Getting help is better than languishing in your insecurity and fear.

Claireah · 2017-09-09T00:06:07+00:00

I had anger issues, depression, and social anxiety by the age of 10 because my mother got addicted to pain killers when she started to get intense migraines, as well as a herniated disc. I lived with my father as well, but he worked a lot, especially once my mom couldn't work anymore. Because of this, I was left alone with my mom a lot when she was messed up.

Unfortunately, no one but my Grandma believed I needed help, and my father convinced me that I didn't need to see a counselor. He also often took his anger out on me (not physically, thankfully) because he didn't know how to handle the situation, especially if I started to cry. Of course, that also means I couldn't really talk to him about anything that was happening. All of this lead to years and years of suffering as a kid with no way out other than to go to my grandma's house for a day or two once a week.

Luckily, I was able to move in with my grandma around age 13. I still saw my parents often since they were still legally my parents, which means there was still a lot of fighting. Unfortunately, I also started taking my anger out on my grandma as well. I was basically in a constant state of anger/depression.

Fast forward to 16, I finally pulled myself out of the hole just enough to go to a counselor. I've been seeing her for a few years now, and everything is so much better. I'm still depressed, though not nearly as much, my anger is gone, and my life as a whole is improving so much.

The whole point of this sob story is this: find someone you can trust and talk to them. I was lucky to have my grandma at first, but since she was so close to the conflict, I still took my anger out on her as well. However, once I started seeing a counselor, everything got better, though it did take some time. Talking to someone about your problems really can help, because often times it not only leads to you being able to take a load off emotionally, it also leads to action. If you can talk to someone about your problems, you might just find a way to work through them as well.

tl;dr: Talking to someone you trust can not only help you emotionally, it can also help you find solutions to your problems, or find a way to cope.

graygarb · 2017-09-09T00:13:12+00:00

For anyone interested, Matt Haig (the tweet poster) wrote a phenomenal book titled Reasons To Stay Alive about his own battle with depression; the short non-fiction piece helped save my life and is an insightful read

JuliaDD · 2017-09-09T02:39:35+00:00

Absolutely! It's awful that men are taught to hide their emotions. It's inhumane. Everyone deserves the right to show emotion, and it seems awful that men so often feel they can't share how they're feeling. Please, men, understand that a worthy women will respect your feelings, and you should feel free to share! It's not healthy or needed to bottle thing up!!

Pathfinder24 · 2017-09-08T18:40:51+00:00

I don't think this is good advice. Do we know that "speaking out" actually reduces risk of suicide?

2017-09-09T01:20:59+00:00

Can I say when I hear man up I don't think of bottling shit down, if someone tells me to man up I go out and do the shit I need to do and go and get the help I need

Taminella_Grinderfal · 2017-09-09T02:27:38+00:00

My ex boyfriend suffered terrible insomnia for about two months. Combination of the death of his father and switch of a new job at the same time. I wanted so badly to "help", but I didn't know how because he kept saying he was fine, but just couldn't sleep. Men, when you're sad, most likely you would be making your SO or other loved ones feel valued that you could confide in them and let them comfort you.

MrNudeGuy · 2017-09-09T02:56:40+00:00

Find strength in your vulnerability. I know its hard but it takes real strength to be vulnerable as a male. It has it benefits especially in making connections with others. You spend all this time being strong and its only a barrier cause by the armor you put up to deal with the world and its shittyness. I have found that sometimes people need to see you bleed to know your human. Don’t be afraid of your humanity, people will respect you for it. But on a side note don’t discard that armor, it still has its place.

Ultramegasaurus · 2017-09-09T07:17:38+00:00

The issue isn't that men aren't speaking up, it's that no one wants to listen. Women feel incredibly offput by men displaying weakness and generally, empathy for men is extremely low.

5th_Law_of_Robotics · 2017-09-09T12:12:14+00:00

And yet feminists still reply to male issues with "lol male tears".

Carebearkiller15 · 2017-09-09T00:43:11+00:00

Looks like there's finally something that Feminism and MRA agree on.

cswanger22 · 2017-09-09T01:07:41+00:00

It is an epidemic. I lost a brother and an uncle to suicide.

DataBound · 2017-09-08T21:55:09+00:00

A post in men's rights that's actually about pro-man stuff? Fuck it, have an upvote

kaldrazidrim · 2017-09-08T22:15:43+00:00

I couldn't find stats to back this up. Anyone?

uglydavie · 2017-09-08T22:36:31+00:00

We need more of this on the sub.

Posting something that's actually uplifting instead of just infuriating is a nice change of pace.

rocket_raccon · 2017-09-09T00:11:21+00:00

Is this true? This stat?

FaggotSlayingCunt · 2017-09-09T00:16:34+00:00

Men are hard on each other. Some of us will belittle other men just for being "weak" and "emotional". But society needs strong men, we can't all just be Lovey dovey. Sometimes we need to just take life with a pinch of salt and finish what needs to be done

iHeartCandicePatton · 2017-09-09T01:16:02+00:00

I fully support this notion

daoogilymoogily · 2017-09-09T01:17:27+00:00

I don't normally agree with everything on this sub, but fuck yes guys. They're a lot of things that our reaction is to just man up and ignore it, including suicidal inclinations and depression. We need to start addressing them rather than allowing them to simmer and explode.

itgscv1 · 2017-09-09T01:28:40+00:00

Comment ratings are really off in this thread, 4k+ up votes and yet the vast majority of comments are well under 100.

dvcat5 · 2017-09-09T02:58:05+00:00

I call b.s on that statistic. Most deaths are suicide for men under 50? No way.

magicfatkid · 2017-09-09T04:21:12+00:00

According to some statistics I just made up

Wait, what?

Is this a satirical article?

Rawrrawrrawrtheboat · 2017-09-09T08:07:00+00:00

Most people don't like to hang around depressed people, tho. Which is awful since social contacts play a major part in fighting depression.

So if you don't want to be surrounded by pity friends it still seems like a good idea to hide your depression.

viper12a1a · 2017-09-09T00:48:09+00:00

While I do believe it's bad to always hide your emotions, I personally feel that it is major strength of being a man that I am able to control my emotions, not having to constantly be emotional about things. How I feel about things is my business, I don't think the world needs to be privy to all of my thoughts and feelings.

NightmareInn · 2017-09-09T01:13:15+00:00

I completely support this. I think that if men were allowed to be more sensitive, there wouldn't be such a stigma over femininity or typically feminine traits in general. I think the same sexism that leads to women often feeling undermined is the very same that discourages men from speaking out about their emotions.

I think that the genders should work together to support one another on this journey to equality, and as a feminist I will work hard to ensure points like these are also heard.

Edit: Nevermind, I don't support this. Two assholes below me told me that my attempt at empathy was insulting to them somehow. Fuck that.

SarniaMelee · 2017-09-08T21:18:45+00:00

Is that a global statistic?

McFeely_Smackup · 2017-09-08T23:07:40+00:00

What did Diane have to say? I suspect it wasn't kind

ghostofthecosmos · 2017-09-08T23:10:03+00:00

Life is hard. Shit's sad, yo.

Drfilthymcnasty · 2017-09-09T02:41:43+00:00

I agree with the message here but for me, when I say "man-up" to myself, it works. It helps me put things in perspective and it does help me find true inner strength because I am very proud to be a man and I know we are strong. I guess I feel like that saying is getting a lot of flak lately and I actually like and use it and I don't think it's a bad thing.

_PEN15 · 2017-09-09T02:57:36+00:00

Stuff it down with some brown

SHUTUPCYRIL · 2017-09-09T03:33:46+00:00

There was a good documentary about this called man up I think?

balne · 2017-09-09T03:44:45+00:00

What did Dianne say?

I_will_draw_boobs · 2017-09-09T04:01:03+00:00

My shit is so repressed I cry when I watch Cartoons.

saysthingsbackwards · 2017-09-09T04:01:08+00:00

Eh. No one has time to help me except myself

Freeman0032 · 2017-09-09T04:44:24+00:00

I'm sad I used to get angry. Now days I just stay sad.

Emperorvoid · 2017-09-09T05:30:28+00:00

You can feel it, then you can build a bridge, and get the fuck over it. Men USED to be Men. Too many fucking pussies these days with no integrity, no balls, and no grit.

2017-09-09T05:35:17+00:00

not to put down the issue itself but this seems highely unlikely to be true. statistics wise that is

2017-09-09T05:58:25+00:00

Not gonna lie, I just had a dream of putting a knife to my chest. Not really sure where that came out of, but lately the thought of killing myself has been on my mind. I don't want to, but it comes up.

WTFppl · 2017-09-09T07:41:20+00:00

This has probably never happened, but is it okay to kill yourself if over 60 and happy, but in pain?

2017-09-09T07:43:04+00:00

Human beings acting like human beings. Thanks guys

rangamatchstick · 2017-09-09T08:08:07+00:00

Yes an no, men need to be supported if they are going to go to far, saying that something men do well is handle the hardest emotional situation with little to no emotional reaction.

sennhauser · 2017-09-09T08:10:37+00:00

Can confirm. Pretty sure I will be one of those below 50s.

contractor808 · 2017-09-09T08:30:28+00:00

I've always thought that this is nothing because people are very depressed, but because we live in such a safe and medically advanced society that the biggest threat to us is ourself

Invicturion · 2017-09-09T08:37:18+00:00

As a 35yrold male that is currently battling a bout of depression, this shit needs to stop.

IntenseCuddling · 2017-09-09T10:06:46+00:00

Men aren't allowed to be sad. Men aren't supposed to be feel anything. Men are to be rocks in the storm, stable and unbreaking. Anything less than this is to be not a man.

pink_pamplemousse_ · 2017-09-09T10:17:36+00:00

Y'all know this is an idea that's been central to scholarly feminism for a long time, right?

LadySaberCat · 2017-09-09T11:11:17+00:00

This is the most truthful and empathic thing I've read all day.

SublimeSC · 2017-09-09T14:04:26+00:00

This is the activism this subreddit needs to pay attention and have discussions about. Not what some dumb feminist said on twitter.

2017-09-09T14:21:24+00:00

Friendly reminder to "tough love, man up" folks that men are people with hopes, dreams and feelings too. We all want to love and be loved for who we are.

mrdbacks10 · 2017-09-09T14:28:43+00:00

Was this July 9th or September 7th?

dfsasdsdsfdasfdsf · 2017-09-09T20:34:56+00:00

"allowed."

ArdentGamer · 2017-09-09T21:29:35+00:00

"it's preventable"

Oh, did you find a magical cure for systematic misandry and one-sided gender roles? Neat!

Rethgil · 2017-09-10T21:34:57+00:00

Well this thread has generated ten THOUSAND upvotes and over five hundred comments, and is clearly one of the bigger ones we've seen.

No surprise then that its caught the attention of feminist organised trolls who have posted both some vile hateful posts (thankfully reported), but also some obvious feminist agenda posts, which has "coincidentally" got 500 upvotes (wonder how many WERENT from organised feminist subs? Not many).

We've read of such tactics by feminist trolls, to derail and divide. Trouble is, the numbers stand out like a sore thumb. Ten thousand upvotes yet one of the argest single comments is apparently one that rubbishes the entire thread? Thankfully the other posts reveal the one obvious exception.

These tactics are about as subtle as a cockroach crawling across a white rug. Shows us we must have got them rattled for them to get so desperate and sloppy.

Title	Don't hide how you feel. Men are allowed to feel sad.
Author	Jobdb2001
Upvotes	10807
Comments	459
Date	September 8, 2017 5:16 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/6yw5n4/dont_hide_how_you_feel_men_are_allowed_to_feel_sad/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/dont-hide-how-you-feel-men-are-allowed-to-feel-sad.1071512 https://theredarchive.com/post/1071512

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