Change my View : Men have a way more calculated and performance oriented Dating Strategy then Women.

Early-Christmas-4742 · 2023-03-08T16:40:24+00:00

Most men on here say tey will literally take whateverfhey can get and that omen are the selectors. Doesn't sound that calculated to me.

lady_ven0m · 2023-03-08T15:24:41+00:00

Both men and women use strategy…dating is a game of trying things and seeing what works and what doesn’t. Men have to have good selling skills and women have to have good vetting skills.

TermAggravating8043 · 2023-03-08T17:08:36+00:00

This only works if your whole premise of dating is a psychopathic point of view where all relationships are just give and take

Dating just doesn’t work like that,

gate18 · 2023-03-08T15:48:58+00:00

A high value Man is : Rich, not old, Tall, handsome, Mentaly strong, has a nice body, is funny, charismatic, loving, intelligent, is overall a good guy, and some smaller details.

He does not exist!

A high Value Women is : Beautiful, has a nice body, feminine, submissive, intelligent, low bodycount, no hoe behaviour in general (having male friends, and other bullshit which are low value like) and overall a very good and caring person and also some other details.

She doesn't exist

No High Value Man will go for a Hoe that will cheat on him in 3 months

No many would go for a prostitute regardless of their manly value. If "ho" means body count - Leonardo decaprio and even Tate.

Women (in my opinion) are playing a way more random Game, where happens what happens, i see plenty of Women not taking the "best deal possible" all the time. Or Women who just chill till theyre 28 and then try to lock up a guy, which from a strategic point is very dumb, because u dont have the same value because youth in Womens Value matters.

Men don't date high body count women? How the fuck did they get the body count? Are these women overing their pussy for rent?

Lets say i am a beautiful girl, why would i even go on a date with the 5-6/10 Dude who hit me up in the Bar, i would like a professional target the 6'3 Multimillionaire who looks good and is a cool guy

That guy doesn't exist for you. Go ahead name 5 6'3 Multimillionaire you know? Fuck that, name one :)

wtknight · 2023-03-08T16:54:44+00:00

Most of the men who settle down are doing it because they catch feels from a certain woman. The men who are being completely calculating when it comes to dating strategy are a minority, but I do agree that more men are likely to be this way than women.

Gerealtor · 2023-03-08T15:16:47+00:00

How is 28 not young lol

UneastAji · 2023-03-08T15:09:58+00:00

than

GGMcThroway · 2023-03-08T16:09:38+00:00

Men have a way more calculated and performance oriented Dating Strategy then Women.

This is true.

If i would be a Women, i would play this way more strategic. Lets say i am a beautiful girl, why would i even go on a date with the 5-6/10 Dude who hit me up in the Bar, i would like a professional target the 6'3 Multimillionaire who looks good and is a cool guy.

You wouldn't if you were raised in a healthy loving home environment. Your average woman (and man, I'd hope) isn't a sociopath who only sees people as a collection of characteristics.

Safinated · 2023-03-08T17:30:49+00:00

I’m pretty sure it’s not women complaining about dates feeling like interviews

Cheap-Resource-114 · 2023-03-08T16:39:00+00:00

Women are ruled more by feelings/emotion as opposed to logic. They don’t date the ‘bad boy’ because they have strategised and think this guy will make the best long term option. They just go with him because he’s fun. He’s exciting and creates some drama which women love.

Even most men don’t strategise, they just take the first girl they get quite often. It’s mainly the logical guys, who are disproportionally represented on here, who try to optimise all aspects of their life

herinquisition · 2023-03-08T16:34:17+00:00

I don't really agree with the manosphere's definition of HVM and I know I don't fit their definition of HVW. Looking at many podcasts and who they praise as their models of who "high value men" are and the ways they talk about and to women has been a clear indication that my values and theirs don't line up at all, not just in who I am as a woman, but in terms of the men they find most attractive. Most of my friends wouldn't find these men desirable either unless they were just gold diggers. (No shade to gold diggers, I'm just saying.) You can have money and still be trash. A lot of these men I've heard from in this manosphere space are trash in character, intellect, emotional intelligence, and lack respect or empathy with women, except women who espouse their misogynist views. They call women all kinds of names and slut shame them, but think of themselves as good people lol We all have different values, that's for sure. Your version of HVM is definitely not mine, nor do many women want to be represented by trash in their boyfriend or husband. Now some women don't care, as long as you got the goods. Fair, different game.

I'm fat, over 30, and a feminist career woman with an opinionated personality and a penchant for spotting and challenging weak logic, so I know I'm definitely not your idea of a high value woman (thank god). Unfortunately, I still had conservatives trying to date me when I was single, which was frustrating.

My bf is in the top 5% of earners in the USA based on income, but he is also currently overweight (he's working on losing weight), 6 ft. tall, I think he's handsome, he's kind and caring toward me, makes me laugh, his smile makes me weak, and I admire his ambition, his mind, and our connection just makes me extremely happy. He looks at me like I'm an ice cream cone and I get lost in his eyes all the time. AND I don't have to worry about misogynist drivel spilling from his mouth or weird control issues like not having male friends or not going out to bars without him or not being on Instagram. He's already experienced guys hitting on me or old dudes popping back up to try and sleep with me. I will tell him when something happens, if he's not there. And he trusts me - period. I had to end one friendship I was trying to build because my old fwb was blatantly disrespecting our relationship. That's the only time it becomes an issue, and he didn't tell me to do anything. I reflected on the situation and chose to myself. Still, I don't really have straight male friends at the moment, so there's that. It's not a rule though. We literally laugh about these ridiculous standards the manosphere has. The key difference is that men who are truly confident and strong in who they are don't need to have ridiculous controlling standards over their partners. He looks so much stronger to me for that. I always tell him, this manosphere content just reiterates that I have a "real man" and I'm grateful to have him in my life.

Now, to get to your typically irrational arguments

The vast majority of men are not high value men by your definition and never could be, so by your own metrics, it's not possible for most men to be strategic in this way because they don't have the leverage of being perfect, which is what you've just described. The vast majority of men can never be top earners and definitely not millionaires. The majority of millionaires aren't going to be young and hot with perfect personalities either. You've described a tiny fraction of men. So by definition, you can't make generalizations about men that don't apply to the overwhelming majority of men. Men making millions in annual income are like under 1% of the income earners in the USA. (Percent may be higher, under 10% of we're talking net worth and not annual income though. And many of them will be older.) And again, not even most millionaires likely fit your description. So your opinion seems backed by emotion/what you feel is true, opposed to strong reasoning and sound logic because the evidence doesn't show a large enough sample size for most men to even apply to your definition of HVM in the first place. There is no "men do this here." No, "men" don't do this because "men" can't. The only argument you can make here is what ultra wealthy millionaire men may be this way, but guess what? Ultra wealthy millionaire women are also more likely to be picky about every aspect of their partners than women working at McDonalds as well.
Aside from the basic definitions not being applicable to most of humanity and therefore invalid in any articulation of what and who most men or women are, we actually see ultra wealthy people displaying variations in preferences as well. That's the part I love about these arguments. Celebrities and the elite are on display and show both patterns and exceptions. It is true that very wealthy men prefer young, thin, beautiful women, but we know several examples of variation, especially with age. Many of the worlds wealthiest men have dated and married women their age or older - not shopped around exclusively for super young women. Many got married long before their wealth and their wives weren't especially beautiful. Examples include Bill Gates, Hugh Jackman, Emmanuel Macron, Ashton Kutcher, Ryan Gosling, Dwayne Wade, Jason Momoa, Mark Zuckerberg, etc.
I also work in philanthropy and have a lot of contact with wealthier families and while their partners are often slim, I wouldn't say most of them are especially beautiful at all. If anything, some people have a stereotype/joke that truly wealthy women are often plain looking. A lot of them are/were quite plain looking in their youth. Some would be considered exceptionally beautiful or striking to look at, but it definitely isn't the rule from what I've observed in my work. I don't think all of them are submissive either, based on their personalities, but they may have some traditional preferences like monogamy and marriage. It really depends. For example, one woman I know is a homemaker but she's very talkative, sarcastic, feminist, and opinionated. Her husband has bank and they are living very well here in NYC. They looked happy together at our last gala, he's funny and they like to exchange jokes a lot it seems. Another woman also has an enormous brownstone with her wealthy husband and she's relaxed and calm, but she's not a homemaker - she's a career woman and I can't see her being a submissive yes woman to her husband either. She's a journalist who talks about racial justice issues at this point. He was likely attracted to her for who she is. Granted, I don't know what he looks like - just that their house is fucking liiit. She is thin and beautiful though, even at her older age. So it just depends.
Culture differences on weight can be interesting. Wealthy black men, for example, still can often be observed dating curvier women. In some countries like Nigeria and Ghana, women who might be viewed as "a little bit fat" in Eurocentric / Asian societies are actually some of the most desirable amongst their elite circles in their countries. The cultures are different and so are their beauty standards. There's still a line, but being thin with more subtle curves is actually less attractive in those cultures. It's not an exclusive rule, but a notable cultural difference.

JNRoberts42 · 2023-03-08T15:55:35+00:00

If i would be a Women, i would play this way more strategic.

As usual, men leave out physical attraction and chemistry.

i would like a professional target the 6'3 Multimillionaire who looks good and is a cool guy. I would also go to the Gym and lockdown a Top man till im 25

None of that matters if he doesn't turn her on.

propyl21 · 2023-03-08T15:41:48+00:00

It's really not that complex. The people that make it super complex are those who are beyond autistic in their approach where they want to control everything and every outcome. That's simply not possible.

Plus one has to consider that a lot of people are afraid of failure which is why they want to make sure every base is covered. When a person has analysis paralysis, they'll get stuck in a rut trying to learn every aspect of the theory behind dating.

What they don't realise is that the are actively failing in real time for not putting themselves out there. They only want to strike when the iron is hot. The perfect moment. By which point their youth might be gone.

But it makes sense. They are afraid of getting hurt. I was one of these people for the longest time and kept making excuses for myself. It was women's fault, it was society's fault, it was my genes and so on, when in fact it was all down to my negative internal beliefs, lack of self worth, and my poor negative attitude and outlook on life.

pearllovespink · 2023-03-08T16:54:43+00:00

Your plan for high value women is unrealistic. There are more educated high value women than men. There’s an overall imbalance in the dating world already as women outnumber men. It can get even worse depending on your race as well.

Bottom line is women have less options than men. Add on these high requirements you’re mentioning and it’s even more slim. It’s not every day that you find a single multimillionaire looking to marry.

It’s much easier to meet your very easy requirements for HVM than women; loyal and attractive. You’re not even requiring them to be educated or employed lol. There are way more loyal and attractive women walking around than single millionaires.

This has nothing to do with strategy. Women are working with what’s available.

Preme2 · 2023-03-08T15:14:42+00:00

You have it backwards.

Marksmithfrost · 2023-03-08T15:37:49+00:00

A high value Man is : Rich, not old, Tall, handsome, Mentaly strong, has a nice body, is funny, charismatic, loving, intelligent, is overall a good guy, and some smaller details.

A high Value Women is : Beautiful, has a nice body, feminine, submissive, intelligent, low bodycount, no hoe behaviour in general (having male friends, and other bullshit which are low value like) and overall a very good and caring person and also some other details

I think the "not old" part apply more to women than men. Usually are men that thirst more for women younger than them or around their early-mid 20s.

No High Value Man will go for a Hoe that will cheat on him in 3 months, also no high value Man will date a Ugly/Fat Women, Man play a very strategic game.

Cuckold and similar fetish/tendencies seem to be quite accepted among cis men (compared to other groups) Funny enough, many people that opt for such relationships ("open relatioship" like dinamics) tend to not be that "low value". According to some statistics, such couple are often in managerial roles and highly educated on average.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_relationship#:~:text=It%20was%20also%20found%20that,females%20reporting%20an%20open%20relationship. (See prevalence)

Of course, now another argument is if for you a man that accept and let a woman "cheating" or act like an hoe can be considered high value...even if the word "cheating" may now be misleading or inappropriate in such context

If i would be a Women, i would play this way more strategic. Lets say i am a beautiful girl, why would i even go on a date with the 5-6/10 Dude who hit me up in the Bar, i would like a professional target the 6'3 Multimillionaire who looks good and is a cool guy.

Because of the dinamics of demand and offer. It is more easy to find beautiful women than 6'3 Multimillionaire guys. You will end up with many Multimillionaire Guys fucking a lot of girls (which it is already the case), but even if they fuck you, you will have no guarantee that they will protect you, will have children with you or that they will give you money...unless from an high value woman you decide to become a hoe of course...

...which defeat your point.

It is overall maladaptive (on average) to what was the purpose of their main mating strategy. Women still have higher standards than men, but they also have to settle at some point, otherwise natural selection and darwin laws will do the job.

UpbeatInsurance5358 · 2023-03-08T15:54:36+00:00

Wait, what happens when women turn 28? I just got a vision of that scene in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade when Donovan dies.....

YveisGrey · 2023-03-08T22:22:32+00:00

There are lots of women who strategically date athletes and other wealthy men. We call them gold diggers.

I think most people aren’t that strategic though and just try to find someone they like. Man or woman. Lots of men marry fat women, single moms, hoes etc.. so I don’t think men are overall that strategic. Men and women just date differently women even average women put way more into their looks. Men tend to work more on game and approach.

KaiserTom · 2023-03-08T17:24:19+00:00

Women get looked at all the time. If a woman raises her head up and looks around, she's bound to make eye contact with someone looking at her. It's something I've asked and they've shared about how they find people in random public venues or events.

I can tell you as a man, that is rarely ever returned unless, once again, you're the one staring at a prospect and they look around and see you. You just may have to spend the entire night doing it. And at that point you're only getting a confirmation to try, or not, to go over and actually make a move. There's just a massive difference in the opportunities presented to one gender over the other.

Men have to act. Women place themselves in opportunities to be acted on. Men get rejected and women get to reject. Which leads to so many insecurities some women have when they get rejected for anything. Not that men don't either, but it's something more required by the gender in dating to be dealt with to really accomplish anything. It also gets me to question what type of men women are actually selecting for when they are only acted on, instead of being the actor. I've known women who date those who stalked and got their phone number from somewhere else. Which is literally selecting for stalker types and bad, uncommunicative people. Which they've acknowledged after the fact when I brought it up but wow.

So men end up with a very performance oriented mindset on that. Because you have to really hold on to one of the few opportunities you get. Which itself can lead to relationship problems and insecurities that instead push others away. Men are not willing to toss out relationships as easily because there's the very real reality they may not find anything else for quite a long time. So there's a lot of toxic women able to ride out relationships with guys who feel too insecure to get anything else. When you don't know better and to know better requires cheating or being alone again.

januaryphilosopher · 2023-03-08T16:38:01+00:00

That's because the way that dating is set up makes it much more difficult for women to "target" anyone. By and large, the rule is that men ask women out, and women can only make decisions on one man at a time as they come along and don't have much control over who asks if anyone. They know that waiting for a millionaire would be waiting forever unless they're a member of the economic elite themselves. But overall the strategy of when to wait and when to cash in is much more difficult and unpredictable than just picking those you like and going out with who says yes.

Pizzashillsmom · 2023-03-08T17:26:31+00:00

The main issue with women is that they can have sex with way more desirable men than those that are willing to commit to them. This leads them to having a warped idea of how attractive they are on the dating marketplace.

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QncyFie · 2023-03-08T17:17:13+00:00

Yeah males in humans are like males with paradise birds. They are expected to do the courting and are judged

FancyComfortable4678 · 2023-03-08T17:18:33+00:00

Women have dating strategies?

Aubrey_D_Graham · 2023-03-08T18:07:54+00:00

Bro, your premise alone is wrong. Men who are wealthy, fit, handsome successful, and not old exist but in fiction: Christian Grey and Edward Cullen.

High value men are attractive/desireable and has the ability to provision.

Reasonable_Volume_96 · 2023-03-08T18:22:07+00:00

OP, if you were a woman you would not consider your value to be lower simply by aging.

Additionally you would likely resent the viewpoint that having male friends is "hoe-like" behavior

Unless you came from a traditional household where purity culture or religion play a part, you likely would not be thinking about how your value declines at 25 because you wouldn't consider virginity sacred and you would not center your entire world around finding a man.

You likely would not see marriage as the end goal to succeed in life and would consider men seeing women to be as male-centric in their thoughts and how they choose to act, because you would have grown up a woman knowing that men who think this way actually believe that because they care about men's opinions above anyone else and therefore so must everyone regardless of gender.

Do you actually think women analyze their behavior and worth to men when choosing a partner? We care about our own self-worth.

Many of us, like myself have spent a majority of our adult lives unlearning our formerly held belief that our value is based on our beauty and youth rather than the content of our character and goodness in our hearts.

Idgaf if a neck beard thinks women 30+ years old actually believe that conceiving a child is on average a lot less likely.

Women have kids in their late 30s early 40s all the time and there is far less risk than there used to be.

The optimal time to have children, and safest for a woman, is actually their mid-late 20s, not their early 20s like many believe.

The risks decrease before they increase but people under 35 usually have no issues conceiving unless they were already having infertility issues from the beginning.

Why on earth do you believe that if you were born a woman, socialized as a woman, experienced how men and the rest of the world treat you because you are a woman, that you would still be thinking and acting from a male perspective? You wouldn't.

You would be wary of strange men & would not be dating for "the best deal" you would be vetting people you like and determining if you could see a future with them - you would not choose someone rich if they were transparent about being abusive, but you may fall for an abuser who happens to be rich of he's charming enough. He would just wait until you moved in to remove the charming mask.

You would not dismiss or put women in a box expecting them to dictate their actions based on the sexist opinions of men who don't see women as full people, just as the future wives, bang maids, and broodmares to sacrifice their time and energy picking up after you - because you would realize that men often do not treat women's time as equally valuable to men and therefore don't see an issue with her sacrificing more free time so you can maintain the amount you always had.

kyle_fall · 2023-03-08T18:55:46+00:00

Makes sense, women are more intuitive and less intellectually strategic than men.

The percentage of men into self-development, game, red pill content, etc that consciously think about dating strategy is for sure at least 3-5x higher than women who do the same.

Relative_Bee8356 · 2023-03-08T20:44:42+00:00

GO OUTSIDE.

Being your version of a "high value woman" sounds absolutely dull as shit. Like the main requirements are that you're a pushover who never has any fun. And if you're "strategic" you marry young, at an age where your marriage is statistically more likely to end in divorce. As a reward for your good behavior you get... some guy who largely values your looks and inability to stand up for yourself.

You think of certain female dating patterns as "not strategic" because you don't understand the concept that women want to have lives they enjoy and compatible partners who see them as more than a "good deal."

Dating and relationships are supposed to be enjoyable.

gymbro718nyc2 · 2023-03-08T22:35:46+00:00

That's a lot of words for "know what you want".

Hosj_Karp · 2023-03-09T09:06:12+00:00

This is not true at all. Women in my experience discussing dating with them as platonic friends admit to be very pragmatic, significantly moreso than men.

I dont think the difference is huge though. There are plenty of hopeless romantic women and plenty of "get the best deal possible" men.

Title	Change my View : Men have a way more calculated and performance oriented Dating Strategy then Women.
Author	Acrobatic-Button-454
Upvotes	18
Comments	148
Date	March 8, 2023 3:08 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/11lypep/change_my_view_men_have_a_way_more_calculated_and/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/change-my-view-men-have-a-way-more-calculated-and.1173177 https://theredarchive.com/post/1173177

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