Does anybody else feel ostracized from their supposed genders “nature”

Eowyn_In_Armor · 2023-12-15T10:46:47+00:00

No you’re not alone. Like most of the time when anybody describes “this is how women are”, I usually end up not being like that at all. And I’m not just in denial, I’m a pretty self aware and introspective person. I think it’s just sexist stereotypes that people desperately cling to in order to feel like they’ve “figured out” other humans.

coping_man · 2023-12-15T09:57:34+00:00

you probably shouldnt be like how this sub's men describe women thats a good thing

i dont see myself reflected in how red pillers describe the guys here either

MidoriEgg · 2023-12-15T09:32:33+00:00

There are certain traits more associated with men, and others more associated with women.

Not every woman is going to relate to them 100%, some will hardly relate to them at all and that’s okay.

The stereotypical image of femininity in itself is impossible to truly live up to anyway for any woman. But it can feel a bit intimidating sometimes trying to be femenine enough.

A lot of these pill debates rely on making absaloute assumptions about the nature of men/women. I doubt even super feminine women would relate to all their gender ‘theories’ on here. They can be really reductive.

I wouldn’t think that not feeling feminine should get in the way of finding a partner. There will be plenty of people out there who will appreciate you for you.

EulenWatcher · 2023-12-15T07:24:05+00:00

A lot of women don’t feel much relation to what men describe as women. Especially on ppd or in any other pill-related communities. It’s the norm really.

You do not fit neither pill ideas of women nor just general stereotypes and it can feel lonely. You might want to seek hobby groups with women related to your interests whether online or offline, I’ve seen quite a lot of content from female carpenters for example. You also might want to look for connection points with other women - there are lots of us barely/not at all fitting our gender role and it isn’t really surprising considering how restrictive the role is.

Do you have any girlfriends?

Glittering_File_6990 · 2023-12-15T10:34:26+00:00

First of all, you shouldn't be taking what men say about women on here seriously lol. Plenty of women have a variety of hobbies outside of shopping or sewing or whatever you think women should be doing. It's not that strange.

Trikger · 2023-12-15T08:38:38+00:00

I never quite fit the mold men described all women as being like.

Of course not! The mold that men describe is a caricature at best. Take this sub for example:

On here, women are seen as tactical, spoiled and opportunistic sociopaths that are unable to experience neither loneliness nor true love. Their loyalty to a man is as deep as his pockets and they are overconfident to the point where they believe they will never have to lift a finger to get whatever it is they desire.

By this description, I'm sure neither of us could consider ourselves much of a woman at all.

While I like to browse reddit and do my own thing online, I actually also go outside. It makes all the difference. I meet people, men and women, who simply don't fit these descriptions at all! Most of them don't, actually.

Of course, subs like these ostracize the hell out of women, as do many other male dominated places and fields. I haven't had too much trouble with women, though. Most of them actually do have a personality. They like things that aren't considered feminine, because on top of being a woman, they're also human.

You're not a weird hybrid; you're normal.

januaryphilosopher · 2023-12-15T07:33:16+00:00

I am very far from what anyone would stereotype a woman as. I have never felt ostracised by women for it, and I am engaged to a man (I proposed) who also doesn't fit gender stereotypes. Both of us have a similar experience: people aren't usually mean to us about it they just make a lot of assumptions that become tiring, and those who do enforce it are mainly men.

Spaciousone · 2023-12-15T07:12:27+00:00

This sounds confusing what do you mean by nature are you talking about a characteristic or personality you have that’s more masculine the feminine.

87AudreyHorne · 2023-12-15T09:13:31+00:00

I just don't believe in these stereotypes. When I was younger I would feel so complimented when someone said I had "male brain" (cause guys are so rational right and I'm not like the other girls) until I stopped to think that this shit doesn't reflect how people are at all. People are above all individuals, there are some superficial mannerisms connected to culture and gender some can display to bigger or lesser extent. I mean just think of how many girls you know, or knew, whose whole thing is how they're not like the other girls?

People are definitely more aware and self aware of this in the last few years and don't play it out that way anymore, but it used to be that every girl had an epiphany at some point about how she's totally different than the really stupid, man made female stereotype. No shit.

Planthoe30 · 2023-12-15T09:14:52+00:00

Your post accurately describes how generalizations make people feel when they don’t quite fit the mold. Nobody truly represents their gender role unless they aren’t being true to themselves.

politicsthrowaway230 · 2023-12-15T10:08:45+00:00

yes this is why gender role abolition is desirable to me, you haven't done anything wrong (you're just you) and so you shouldn't feel judged or socially punished for it.

you might be in a minority but it's not going to be a small one.

TidyMess123 · 2023-12-15T11:07:32+00:00

Yes - with a huge fucking asterisk ***** this varies by country. Some societies put farrrr more differential qualities on the “nature” of gender than others. Lookup masculine versus feminine cultures to find some data sets on this.

Most of what people place on the “nature” of genders is societally constructed rather than something actually inherent in nature.

learn2earn89 · 2023-12-15T13:56:57+00:00

I feel the same way as you. I’m 33 so past what these guys say is there target demographic. Even when I was 23, all i did was go to work, (had graduated college), would go running in the evenings, watch movies with my friend (a girl lol), and cry myself to sleep because I couldn’t find a job that paid more and didn’t involve me working evenings on the weekends. I wasn’t talking to any guys and legit no guys looked my way lol

Oli_love90 · 2023-12-15T15:50:54+00:00

I think that’s why this forum is so fascinating to me. I haven’t experienced or done any of the supposed activities women engage in.

So it’s like peeking into a different world. I think this subreddit especially only accounts for a certain type of person and their experiences.

WanabeInflatable · 2023-12-15T08:10:25+00:00

I understand you and really hate gender stereotypes.

Often get downvoted by men here for my opinions. There seems to be a gender-war dynamic and "male team" sometimes makes me cringe, despite I'm supposed to be on their side.

Women ... women judge you as a typical man by default, even stereotypical strawman of a man. If you try to explain that you are different - even worse. you are probably a nasty niceguy.

Interesting how your post was downvoted... Sort of confirms the point

threw352 · 2023-12-15T11:16:17+00:00

Yep I think evopsych is bullshit. According to this link the replicability rate in evopsych papers was 0%. I have gotten told off for saying it before as apparently red pill is not applicable to lgbt people (a cop out) but I lived as lesbian and am still very much thinking lesbian culture and identity is a part of me as an FTM and dating and having sex with women who date and have sex with women just completely debunks all the nature arguments. all these dynamics that are "hardwired" do not exist in WLW relationships, they are CLEARLY a result of patriarchy.

https://replicationindex.com/category/evolutionary-psychology/

FillThisEmptyCup · 2023-12-15T07:26:22+00:00

Very much so. But PPD is no refuge either, they are very much on a 2 opposing dynamic and everyone else is just collateral damage.

Mitago1 · 2023-12-15T10:06:53+00:00

The pill communities and other communities on the internet have at best subpar understanding of what men or women ''should be'', for example reddit communities that touch on gender related subjects ( not just PPD, even the super progressive communities ) are usually echo-chambers that spout one kind of view on gender related subjects and deny or outright ostracize the rest.

So just do what you want and like, why does it matter what some dipshit individuals on the internet think about what YOU should be like.

Agile_Celebration492 · 2023-12-15T11:22:18+00:00

🤷 generally women like to bang men, but lesbians exist and they are still women. Generally men enjoy watching a good boxing match but pacifists exist and they are still men. Generally people like to eat steaks, but vegetarians exist and they're still people(I suppose)

My point is that what you fit in with or how you behave doesn't define what you are fundamentally and frankly I'd say anyone you chose to put in your life has to build a bridge and get over that

bluestjuice · 2023-12-15T13:27:58+00:00

I can’t totally speak to generalities, but this feels normal. Ideas about gendered natures are so heavy generalized, but individuals are not general. We all have different constellations of traits and ways in which we differ or adhere to various averages.

That’s one major reason why a lot of TRP adages particularly rub women the wrong way - they claim to know truths about ‘all women’ or ‘all men’ as shorthand when ‘most’ or ‘many’ would be more appropriate, and that’s especially annoying when you know you don’t fit that item. People want to be related to as individuals.

OpticalEpilepsy · 2023-12-15T07:26:34+00:00

Yes because I'm supposed to want skinny women but prefer overweight and even obese pear or hourglass shaped women

KissCutMe · 2023-12-15T09:32:07+00:00

I was under the impression the men here have never met a real human woman before so they made all this crap up..

MountainousCapybara · 2023-12-15T09:07:05+00:00

I feel you, Im also very far removed from what my gender stereotype encompasses both in appearance and behavior which made me feel judged by men and women alike. It's tough to find your crowd but I belive that people who fall outside of gender norms are out there.

Cethlinnstooth · 2023-12-15T10:51:44+00:00

I've never felt particularly womanly except as a result of interaction with the world? I conceptualize this as having a very loose personal attachment to the idea of being gendered. I don't regard myself as trans or non-binary...just very loosely attached to womanhood when in the absence of pressures that force me to consider gender. I use she/her pronouns but am also not in the least bit offended by they/them. I'm definitely a woman...but when I am alone doing stuff that doesn't require me to be gendered the idea of being a woman barely crosses my mind.

It's okay. If you want a partner you can have one. It's not necessary to be thinking of yourself as a woman all the time for a man to perceive you as a woman all the time.

wtknight · 2023-12-15T13:30:44+00:00

I don't feel ostracized, but I feel like "man lite" compared to other men - like I have some of the tendencies that men have, but not in as high of a degree that "true men" should have.

AChromaticHeavn · 2023-12-15T17:18:32+00:00

You're not the only one. I am a tomboy. I've the body of a girl, but the emotional logic of a man. I have panic attacks like a girl, but generally once I'm over it, I can logic (or engineer) my own fix for any given problem. My personality is that of a sigma male. (According to my bf anyway).

AnonymousAgapeLove · 2023-12-15T21:50:04+00:00

meh I’m kind of a bitch so lol

AI_CODE_MONKEY · 2023-12-15T09:04:38+00:00

What I mean by my title is, does anyone else feel like they don’t fit at all into the supposed “nature” of their gender?

I get this from my dad all the time, he's definitely a little disappointed that I'm not more of a traditional man like he is.

In many ways my life circumstances have forced me to assume aspects of the feminine gender role. For one, I spent most of my teens living with him and he is a very busy man who works two jobs and was often away from home, so I have been cooking for myself since I was 13 or so. Also, I have a significantly younger brother(12 year gap) and whenever he isn't with my mom, I am partially responsible for caregiving.

These “pill” debates rely so heavily on the true nature of the genders, but what if none of those apply to you?

Behavioral and cognitive differences between the sexes are very real, variance within each sex should be acknowledged but often times. Progressives/feminists/bluepill are guilty of downplaying sex differences and over-exaggerating variance within each sex(especially for women).

AutoModerator · 2023-12-15T05:04:41+00:00

Attention!

You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.
For "Debate" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.
If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.
OP you can choose your own flair according to these guidelines., just press Flair under your post!

Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

Sharp_Engineering379 · 2023-12-15T11:29:37+00:00

I do all the stereotypically masculine chores and hobbies and also have a male dominated career. But I’m also interested in fashion and cooking and gardening and other typically feminine pursuits and appear feminine most of the time.

I don’t give it a second thought. Until I stumbled into this sub, I had no idea men cared if women mow a yard or dress like a nun and the attitudes espoused here are frequently from an ultra conservative culture or religious group.

It’s very frustrating. It makes me feel like I can’t find a partner because I’m not like a woman should be. I need to know if others have this experience

That absolutely depends on your cultural/religious sphere. If it’s conservative and conformist, you’ll probably have to make the changes to fit in. If you typically socialize with random people, neither men nor women care how you present so long as you are open and friendly.

WilliamWyattD · 2023-12-15T14:03:59+00:00

Nobody sane believes many things apply to everyone in a gender. It is more about the extent to which a given trait applies.

Nothing wrong with being atypical for your gender. Gotta be you. But one has to accept that the more typical members of a gender need some degree of gendered roles and expectations as guidance. This will always frustrate the exceptional, to some extent. And that is OK. What a healthy society has to do is calibrate gender roles so that they are as accurate as can be, and that the impediments to the atypical are not unnecessarily cruel. It's a balance.

So just be you. But don't try to burn down all gender roles just because they are a bit of an obstacle to you. Don't start thinking you are typical.

Natural-Sun1850 · 2023-12-15T14:25:41+00:00

Masculinity and femininity aren’t traits you’re born with, they’re something that you cultivate in yourself over your entire lifetime. If someone tries to tell you you’re just not naturally feminine/masculine and you shouldn’t try to be, that’s them demoralizing you because they don’t think you’re worthy of achieving that status.

KayRay1994 · 2023-12-15T14:51:45+00:00

I think it is important to remember that when we are talking about gender roles (whether they be natural or socially enforced - which, to be clear, are not the same thing and things like the redpill tend to act like they’re one in the same), we are talking about sweeping generalities. Ie. these are traits you’ll find in most people, of course, lots of people are different, and there is nothing wrong with that.

Speaking for myself, I do consider myself as a bit of an exception to this, mostly because I do have my share of naturally masculine traits, but also naturally feminine traits - it is also worth remembering that having one set of traits doesn’t negate the other and tbh we should all strive to have some combination of both. A man needs to be in touch with his feminine energy and know how to harness it when needed, and a woman needs to be in touch with her masculine energy and know when to harness it as needed.

Of course, one’s “masculine” or “feminine” energy don’t inherently mean the same thing because there is some alignment with a set of traits and your strengths. But that’s whole tangent

tl;dr - these are all sweeping generalities, and odds are we all have a bit of both. If you go against your natural or socially enforced or whatever set of gender roles. Who cares?

Safinated · 2023-12-15T16:10:57+00:00

That is exactly what “not like other girls” is about

Fortunately, you are trying to fuck men, not women

No-Refrigerator3350 · 2023-12-15T16:32:26+00:00

As a woman with a high sex drive, yes.

Wattehfok · 2023-12-15T17:46:14+00:00

Im a very masculine guy. I have a “man” job, hobbies etc and present tall, muscular, bearded, tattooed, etc. I’m pretty level-headed in a crisis and I tend to get shunted into leadership roles.

A lot of it is habit and frequently doesn’t feel good or natural.

I’m happier serving people and nurturing. There’s some appropriate outlets for that, but not many.

Realistic-Ad-1023 · 2023-12-15T18:03:42+00:00

That’s because most people do not fall into the hyperbolic “nature” ascribed to any one gender. There are bad people. There are societal expectations put into place by our ancestors. But most people are just out here peopleing.

Also that’s why many women go through a “not like other girls or NLOG” phase. Because we are actively rebelling against a system that has told us what a “good woman” is - a vapid, shallow, shell of a person who is only interested in looking pretty and dating Chad. And when we are like wait - I’m not like that, I have hobbies and interests and I’m intelligent and strong and powerful and loving and kind and not that. and so we start saying we “aren’t like other girls” when in reality no girls are like that. All women are people like any other. And once you’ve elevated past nlog and on to “I’m not a caricature of a person and I fought against it believing that’s what women were but actually we aren’t and actually I am like other girls because girls are awesome and they’re like me and that’s cool” is when life gets better and the catty days of our youth become a distant cringey memory.

RealMenEatPussy · 2023-12-15T09:55:40+00:00

No. When I was younger absolutely I would’ve agreed with you, and around 18-20 I was naturally redpilled due to women’s actions before I even knew the concept was a thing and assumed I just “figured out” how things worked, and around 24 I fell into a stereotypical male job and realized I really enjoyed it, and ended up getting into the trades.

macone235 · 2023-12-15T07:26:10+00:00

These “pill” debates rely so heavily on the true nature of the genders, but what if none of those apply to you? Am I just supposed to accept that I’m some weird hybrid minority

Yes. Most people are the same and conform to society pretty closely. People that deviate from the norm exist, but they are obviously not common.

Aubrey_D_Graham · 2023-12-15T18:41:04+00:00

Men are not a monolith. What the pill has taught men is that it's simply becoming the kind of person you want to attract (exclusive) or accepting the people who will accept you as you are. This advice is true for all genders. It's a simple heuristic for men to be men in order to attract women who are women. My advice for you is to look for men who are not so interested in being The Man.

2023-12-15T18:49:38+00:00

No I don't feel ostracized from my supposed gender nature. But I would am not like modern men who are obsessed with hedonistic lifestyle I suppose. I am more like the romantic ideals of what men should be I suppose, chivilary and other traditional stuff. None of this alpha and sigma bullshit

AnonymousAgapeLove · 2023-12-16T00:27:55+00:00

of course! The more people you meet, especially in areas where people don't feel pressure to confirm to gender stereotypes, the more you will see.

cuckspace · 2023-12-16T02:17:31+00:00

Yeah, I don’t look or act feminine in any way, but my internal functioning and drive is not like what is expected of “natural” men. All women expect me to want to initiate, chase and take the lead in the context of dating. When I say all women I’m not meaning most women, women with traditional morals or submissive women, but ALL women, blonde, brunette, purple haired — from the most conservative to the radical feminist. They expect me to express a characteristic that doesn’t exist at all within me and feels alien to me. All my successes with women have been a result of me going out of my way to act like a completely different person. Sometimes they like or even love “me”, but it’s not really me they love but an archetype they project on me, that has no resemblance to my actual self. Of course their love comes crashing down when I burst their bubble with my actual self.

I think women are allowed much more variance in how they act and think, but men all have to fit into the same mold regarding certain core characteristics, and if they don’t like it and don’t want to play their role they are encouraged to just go die quietly in a corner because nobody cares, change their gender or try pursuing their own gender instead. Women at least have inherent sexual value — if they are not hideous — regardless of their conformity to their supposed “nature”. Men only have two options; to conform or perish.

Icky138 · 2023-12-16T22:06:05+00:00

i don’t relate to these women they describe either. Not even a little.

Relative_Bee8356 · 2023-12-17T22:15:58+00:00

I honestly don't think most people align with a "pilled" conception of gender, because the pilled conception of gender is bullshit invented by stupid people, a lot of whom are men who don't actually interact with women.

Available-Level-6280 · 2023-12-19T18:31:52+00:00

I totally feel this way. I'm a tomboy bi woman who exudes masculine energy. I couldn't imagine being submissive to anyone, I couldn't put my entire livelihood in someone else's hands. Independence is a must for me. But I like the way I am, it's not a big deal for me.

Title	Does anybody else feel ostracized from their supposed genders “nature”
Author	chickensaucenugget
Upvotes	20
Comments	108
Date	December 15, 2023 5:04 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/18ise6x/does_anybody_else_feel_ostracized_from_their/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/does-anybody-else-feel-ostracized-from-their.1240820 https://theredarchive.com/post/1240820

Comments