Does the so called manosphere highlight the conversation that had been happening for years, but in the dark?

OkProfessional9405 · 2024-05-19T20:07:20+00:00

The roots of the manosphere, as far as I know, go back to an online forum (I think so-suave?). Basically with the birth of the Internet, men around the world were able to compare notes for the first time in human history. Guys would tell their stories of women behaving badly with a 'you're not going to believe this' tone and men would all echo 'yeah, same thing happened to me' with shocking regularity.

And so with this information guys started to figure out what women were actually doing in relationships. For example, cheating rates for young women are much higher than for men, where as cheating rates for older women are much lower than it is for men. But we only ever heard the narrative from older women who cheat less about how bad cheating men are.

The truth is humans are humans. When women are young and basically everyone under 70 wants to date them they take full advantage and use plausible deniability to essentially openly try out new guys to date. When men get older and are established and for the ones who have put together a compelling lifestyle they hold off on committing and enjoy sampling the field. So basically both genders exploit their options when they have them.

shadowrangerfs · 2024-05-19T20:08:26+00:00

Sure. This is the stuff men used to talk about on guys night or at the barbershop. Now they are just saying it in public.

I think why the reaction to things like dating podcasts, and manosphere content, and things like that is so shocking is because it's the first time people in a public forum are saying to women, "You aren't good enough to get the man you want. You don't have what he's looking for".

Necessary-Ask-3619 · 2024-05-20T03:53:14+00:00

Yes, I have discussed many ideas from Manosphere before I even heard of any parts of Manosphere.

BeautifulTree5607 · 2024-05-20T02:52:38+00:00

I feel like women started the equality movement, which has opened men up to the idea that they also don’t need to accept oppression from society through archaic gender roles.

NotReallyTired_ · 2024-05-19T19:52:17+00:00

Majority of the manosphere's influence are very online. You'll almost never run into someone who identifies in those spaces, the closest would be vaguely knowing the names "Andrew Tate" or "Kevin Samuels."

It has the possibility of becoming a societal issue, but not in a explosive revolutionary fashion where there'll be an underground cabal of men planning to burn down society and it's institutions for it's warmth. But a very slow and debilitating communal breakdown, where men are just going to opt out of their community and obligations that comes with it.

The manosphere is a byproduct and reaction to the broader current societal woes. It's one of those situations, where if you dig past the blatant misogyny and shitty personalities there's a hidden truth and pain that a lot of men can relate to and are going through. One thing I'll give them credit for is knowing the majority of men's insecure and presenting it, it's very surgical and convincing if you're either inexperienced or going through a rough patch.

CraftyCooler · 2024-05-19T20:09:57+00:00

There was no reason for manosphere in the past because majority of men were able to find their place in society. Along with globalisation and quite contradictory expectations that men are facing - many guys feel confused. On one hand young men hear: "you can be whoever you want to be, go on boy define your masculinity in any way you wish", but there is also second 'silent' part saying: "well, you can be whoever you wish - but you know, women have the ick if you are not masculine in traditional way', 'you can be feminine, but in case of war you have the penis, so you need to man up and die as the real man should do' or 'we know that men struggle with education, and we support equality, but we like... do not care about men, we care about not enough women in STEM, that's important'. Men do not feel that western world has a good offer for them or even that this world gives a fuck about them. So they are bitter and decide to not really put effort. In my country young men said that in case of war with Russia they will leave the country asap, women can fight, can die, can be raped - they do not care. Women have exceptionally low suicide rate here, they have lower retirement age, much better educational outcomes and are not conscripted to military. So guys said - 'fuck you - no dying for female republic'.

No-Rough-7390 · 2024-05-20T00:49:28+00:00

As misandry becomes more and more common and open, a response was bound to come. Majority of men love women and would love to be with one for the rest of their lives.

Society changed, so they are adapting. What’s confusing to me is that women are confused as to why.

Professional_Chair28 · 2024-05-19T19:07:04+00:00

I mean aren’t most of the ideals just shit that was normal two decades ago that we’ve since grown beyond as a society? I thought the whole movement was a kickback reaction to ‘wokeness’.

Those ideas were never silent, they’re just not largely popular anymore.

pop442 · 2024-05-19T20:38:44+00:00

Honestly, the manosphere is lowkey collapsing.

Roosh V is a full blown Tradcon/Alt Right grifter now. Patrice O'Neal died. Kevin Samuels died. Rollo Tomassi is irrelevant and only gained buzz again for his laughably awful definition of a High Value Man on Twitter. Andrew Tate got accused of sex trafficking and never bounced back. F&F got deplatformed for Anti-Semitism. JustPearlyThings got deplatformed for Anti-Semitism. Return Of Kings died as a blog back in 2018. Sneako is a troll and fell off. The Roommates fell off(and it was one of the more level headed platforms). AMS fell off. And the list goes on.

Who even is the figurehead for the "manosphere" these days? I know Tate's still well-known but he's had a rapid decline in popularity and has become infamous. And a lot of Zoomers treat him as more of a meme than anything else.

If anything, I feel the Black Pill or Incel-adjacent movements that focus on "lookism" and "Chads/Tyrones" are growing in popularity.

VWGUYWV · 2024-05-20T00:30:19+00:00

Avoiding crazy women and women with really high body counts has been discussed by men forever

Then modern rad feminists came around and shamed men for that bit of self preservation and common sense and wrote enough articles to convince themselves to be proud sluts

But a lot of red pill stuff is just common sense to guys with self respect and detecable testosterone levels

Now a lot of the stuff that a lot of guys secretly thought or discussed is seen as this new threatening movement

Women think they should be the arbiters of acceptable social discourse and you’re being ignored regarding that by a lot of men and the frustration among some is palpable

kongeriket · 2024-05-20T02:40:18+00:00

Please do keep in mind that the book The Fraud of Feminism was published 116 years ago. And the book The Legal Subjection of Men was published 128 years ago.

Esther Vilar published The Manipulated Man over 50 years ago.

So the idea that the discussions in the manosphere (however you want to define it) are somehow new does not hold water. These ideas have been around at least since the 19th century. Heck, the word gynocentrism is almost 200 years old and it has been defined by Auguste Comte (among other things, the founder of sociology itself). The practice of gynocentrism is at least 700 years old with the introduction of the concept of romantic love.

So no, none of this is new and almost every generation has had these conversations, routinely in public. Social media just makes it more visible (social media makes anything more visible).

do you think many dudes felt the same regardless, but would have kept the conversation behind closed doors?

In addition to social media, one other thing happened: The sudden rise in fatherlessness.

My father taught me. I am teaching my son. But this practice is no longer common. So young men will seek somewhere else. Women who believed they can raise competent men were, generally speaking, wrong. And now some societies live with the consequences.

Cethlinnstooth · 2024-05-19T21:22:41+00:00

I think it's more that very few people can put up with the shittiest most angry of those guys in real life. They're the sort of men who even other men eventually a few hours into interacting feel creeped out by, grossed out by.

So it wasn't that men didn't talk about women, compare notes etc before the internet. It's that the men who other men quickly want to punch in the face if they stand within five yards of them in the flesh are now being tolerated by other men in various ways online. For example the toleration that comes with being able to just make a new Reddit account. And thus the male discourse got overall more angry.

-Shes-A-Carnival · 2024-05-19T20:50:26+00:00

go watch the movies swingers and Tao of Steve, watch Joey invent the phrase friend zone on the show friends, watch Chris rock bring the pain special, listen to the black flag song slip it in

N-Zoth · 2024-05-19T20:39:30+00:00

Yes, this conversation was happening. But it was just your local drunk ranting to the bartender and that's it.

The internet created plenty of insane spaces that possible only because they self-isolate into echo chambers with zero pushback.

wtknight · 2024-05-19T20:45:59+00:00

Men have always been saying bad things about women. The internet gives the most marginalized men the ability to organize in a way that they could not in the past, though.

So the conversation has always been going on, but it has become more massive in scale due to today's communication technologies.

Barneysparky · 2024-05-19T21:16:02+00:00

I've been following the manosphere since 2000.

It started as bitter divorced guys (see angryharry).

Those guys actively recruited younger nerds, and here we are today.

My favorite manosphere pioneer was a guy whose wife left him with the kids after he bought a dilapidated farmhouse in the middle of nowhere with no running water, electricity etc without even telling her.

He was really pissed off. His own parents sided with her that their 3 children could not live there. The wife did not sell their urban home. Instead, she bought out his 50%.

Because he dropped out of the grind (without telling her his intention), his 50% didn't go very far. Last time I read his poor me thing he was still living without stair to the doors in his house. It was all her fault.

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EntertainerWild7391 · 2024-05-20T15:33:12+00:00

I don't know, I think older guys can be some of the most red pilled, especially if they've got some shitty relationships/marriages under their belts, though the younger men who would've been ignorant to how much women engage in things like af/bb, soft harems and so on, are being shown these behaviours through the internet whereas before, even when I was a young man only 15-20 years ago, you'd only really see what women were actually like if you partied and had some "chad" friends that were out there slaying way more than anyone else.

DarayRaven · 2024-05-19T19:28:05+00:00

What exactly are you talking about ?

JohnClarn · 2024-05-19T19:12:36+00:00

Yes. Men hating women’s sexuality, fearing their success, and wanting to see them go back to subservience is nothing new. It’s been around since religion was invented.

The manosphere just allows these knuckle draggers to speak openly without all the normal and balanced members of society saying ‘wtf is wrong with you?’

Solondthewookiee · 2024-05-19T21:23:00+00:00

No, the manosphere rhetoric hasn't really changed much in the past 10-15 years. It's the same sexist arguments men have been making for centuries, it's just becoming less and less accepted by society at large, and so their reaction is to yell louder, kinda like a dinosaur roaring at an asteroid.

jazzmaster1992 · 2024-05-19T20:24:37+00:00

What exactly are you talking about? What conversations are they having that used to be so controversial but aren't anymore?

Title	Does the so called manosphere highlight the conversation that had been happening for years, but in the dark?
Author	BushidoX0
Upvotes	23
Comments	126
Date	May 19, 2024 7:02 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1cvvlrr/does_the_so_called_manosphere_highlight_the/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/does-the-so-called-manosphere-highlight-the.1518933 https://theredarchive.com/post/1518933

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