The problem with heterosexual men

EulenWatcher · 2025-05-28T18:34:29+00:00

It seems you're talking about a minority of men who have no relationships with women at all and extrapolate them on...all heterosexual men? Have I read it correctly?

That doesn't really make sense. There are a lot of men who don't have issues with women in the first place - they can be single, they can be dating or married or even divorced. They don't hate women. They might have some complaints or have problems with individual women, but they don't hate women overall. I'd guess they're the majority of men in the West. Then there are struggling men who don't hate women. They might have poor experience with their female relatives or romantic partners or they might be struggling with getting dates, but they don't make it a problem of a whole other gender. Then there are men who do hate women and who do have relationships with them. You don't have to be single and isolated to be bigoted. The same goes to women btw.

I'd guess a lot of gender issues of both genders are the result of our economy, poor socialization and too much time spent online. We just weren't meant for our current lifestyle, and unfortunately it doesn't seem that it's going to get any better any time soon.

Hefty-Lobster-5513 · 2025-05-28T20:22:42+00:00

Do y’all ever get tired of calling heterosexual men gay for not worshipping the ground you walk on? Maybe just being a woman isn’t enough for men to find you interesting and befriend you. Maybe men just have more things in common with other men. Maybe the current day dynamics and discourse between men and women make it harder for men to find platonic relationships with women. Maybe some guys hobbies are majorly sausage fest’s. “Naw, they’re just gay”. It’s incredibly ignorant and obtuse at this point.

Edit: Grammar

Feeling_Ad_1034 · 2025-05-28T18:14:01+00:00

I don’t like these “playing with definitions to try to get some sort of ‘gotcha’” posts.

Heterosexual means sexually attracted to the opposite sex. It’s strictly in terms of sexual desire. These men you speak of are heterosexual. The end.

TheGloriousEv0lution · 2025-05-28T18:11:50+00:00

All or almost all of that which pertains to love, most straight men reserve exclusively for other men.

This subreddit is so weird

Why are there so few normal men and women here?

Nidken · 2025-05-28T18:06:20+00:00

Where do you people find these deranged ideas. Plenty of men love and desire women.

TFME1 · 2025-05-28T18:38:44+00:00

Quite a stereotyping comment. I thought we weren't doing that anymore.

Open-Quail-2573 · 2025-05-28T18:53:39+00:00

This is a very cynical take. They're lonely because there's no reciprocation of interest from women. I can say with confidence there's guys out there who would be good partners but they don't qualify because either they don't meet the standards of women in some way, or they are too damn shy and socially awkward.

xxTheMagicBulleT · 2025-05-28T19:35:51+00:00

What you say can also be seen the same way about women.

There are just as many women that don't connect or wanna see or understand the other side.

And the thing is when you always push the blame on one side but you can easy see both sides are responsible. You make people less likely to want to come back to the table.

So saying the problem with men. Can easily be said the problem with women at the same term.

There is just a lot of selfishness on both sides that gets pushed to more extreme ideals.

But thats not most people not most men and not most women. Just the very very vocal part of the online world. And sure the online world effects the real world too many people think the online world is the real world.. but if you travel even mildly and see more cultures and places. Many places are much more grounded and normal then you think.

Its just you cant go out of your way and tell men should go and work against there best interests all the time and think the are willing to listen. And the same is true for women. Its foolish to think people would keep sacrificing for people that show they dont care about you at all. And even openly disrespectful to you. Its a impossible sell. So the men should do more be beter do better. Is dumb why should why why would they. When you see so much hate in disdain for men. If women would be treated that way most women would also say go kick rocks. So a lot of men do the same thing.

Men that dont have good women role models and dont treating them with kindness understanding and care. But expecting those people to always do better is just never gonna happen. Doing more and more being beter and better for nothing in return is a hard sell. A impossible sell even.

That's what's happens when you empower one side but kick down the other side each time. At some point they don't see a reason to keep trying.

And thats not most men. That's a small off set of men that dont have any good female role models. The same way most extreme feminists that are men haters are women with lack of good male role models.

Simple said broken family create broken children broken children become broken adults.

Again thats not most people. Just the more extreme vocal minority of each extreme sides that have a lack of good role models of the opposite sex.

SamuraiGoblin · 2025-05-28T21:17:55+00:00

"News just in: straight men are gay."

Someone had a brain fart thought they did something.

Are there misogynistic men who don't respect women? Sure, just as there are misandrist women that don't respect men. There are arseholes everywhere. Such disrespect manifests differently, but it's still just bigotry.

Men can bond with other men in a way they can't with women, just like women can bond with women in a way they can't with men. It's because we are different, and we relate differently. There is nothing sinister about that.

It seems to me this is one woman's flowery 'showerthought' way of justifying her misandry.

Solondthewookiee · 2025-05-28T18:28:28+00:00

I think it's insightful to a certain type of man that, I hope, is becoming less common. I've definitely known men like this and I think this was broadly true of many or most men not terribly long ago. I think in the context of red pill, it's less relevant because I don't think they even try to present kindness or generosity towards women; it seems to be almost exclusively resentment.

justdontsashay · 2025-05-28T18:04:26+00:00

This isn’t most men. This is a certain sad breed of man. There are plenty of hetero men who do actually like women.

Gold_Sheepherder6569 · 2025-05-28T18:09:58+00:00

I think it is funny that the woman who wrote that Marilyn Frye is quite literally a lesbian speaking on dynamics, straight ones, that she doesn't know or have any experience with. Like aside from the fact that a lot of men have sisters, daughters, co-workers, friends that are female that they may admire and respect. Do you genuinely believe that men don't love or care about their wives or the women in their family? Second of all, do you actually believe that most of the people women look up to aren't other women? Like it makes perfect sense that people would idolize those who share more traits and experiences with them

StupidWhiteBoi · 2025-05-28T20:39:13+00:00

You are wrong. Blue pill women have to stop basing their reality on TikTok trends, facebook posts, YouTube shorts, and Instagram algorithms. Most men love, adore and cherish women. Most men befriend and like women. I don't know why blue pillers have a habit of making their outliers the average. You have to stop looking at the rare negatives so much.

This just proves that American women are so bored that they look at rare instances to have something to get mad about.

CanaryHeart · 2025-05-28T19:43:18+00:00

I think a lot of men have difficulty connecting with other people in intimate relationships, period. Broadly speaking, men have fewer close friends, are less satisfied with their friendships, and have more distant relationships with their family than women do.

So many of the traits that are essential to building intimate relationships—vulnerability, openness, interdependence, etc.—are seen as feminine traits in my culture. Society forces men and boys into a really, really narrow definition of masculinity that’s directly at odds with meeting basic human emotional needs and building intimate relationships and then wonders why they struggle with emotional regulation, wellbeing, and intimate relationships.

TopShelfSnipes · 2025-05-28T20:53:43+00:00

This maybe describes incels and manosphere types, but it definitely doesn't describe most well-adjusted men.

My wife is the most amazing person I know and the one I most look up to. Her ability to dive into and learn new things is incredible to watch, and yeah, she has her soft and squishy moments, but she's a total fucking badass and completely inspirational to me on the hard days. None of that has anything to do with her sex appeal or sexuality. If I got cock and ball cancer all at once and had to retire from sex, I'd still choose to spend the rest of my life with her.

At one point when we were early dating, we weren't 100% sure about compatibility for long term goals, and I told her if it didn't work out I'd still want her to have a happy life and be in my life, and she wished me similar.

Pedestalizing women is weird behavior. Just meet them where they're at. It's more fun that way. Who the hell wants to "worship" another human being anyway, or treat them like they're made of glass?

OTOH What always trips me out is - as someone who follows both men's and women's sports - the comments sections from insecure guys or just general assholes about women's sports. Here's a woman scoring a nice goal, or hitting a big three...some idiot: "they're only talking about her cuz she's hot" "whatever, men do that all the time it's no big deal" "she'd still get smoked by [pro men's player] or [local high school player/team]" It reeks of insecurity and is downright weird. I rarely see women doing this about men's sports (or the opposite) - guy makes a nice play, they're into it...there's no "psshh [female athlete] did the same thing last week" or "watch the women's league" talk. It's dumb. It's even dumber that people are willing to train their algorithms to show them more of content they're actively disparaging just to get a dig in. But social media has people online arguing about baseball brawls from decades ago, and nobody bats an eye.

Par for the course these days, I'm afraid - but not indicative of well adjusted men.

BigMadLad · 2025-05-29T02:26:46+00:00

Anytime this stupid quote gets brought up it’s very convenient that women don’t look at themselves and realize they’re doing the exact same thing. If you ask women who their heroes are, they’re going to say other women, if you ask them who in their life has influenced them the most they’re going to say another woman, could be their mom or their sister or their friend or a hero, but usually another woman. This has nothing to do with genders. It’s simply how humanly and the human brain works. We like others who look like ourselves because we can relate and assume they are like us in all of their facets.

Additionally, most of history is pretty male dominated, so there’s plenty of examples to go round. Men are bound to find someone in history or their personal lives that they think are like them, why wouldn’t they?

Stupid example, but if you ask a lot of white people who their favorite basketball player of all time is, you’re gonna get a higher percentage of them saying Larry Bird than any other race, and it’s not because they’re racist is because they identify with him and have a commonality.

midnight_blue77 · 2025-05-29T05:18:13+00:00

I don't think you have a clue how men work to be honest. 🤔

millenium-kestrel · 2025-05-29T15:55:14+00:00

In my experience being raised by women and surrounded by female acquaintances never helped me in dating.

Honestly what helped me in dating was completely disregarding all the lessons I learned about dating from women.

Sure I had a bustling social circle, and yes women fell into my lap from that, but few and far between. What’s more the women I dated would eventually resent that I wasn’t more masculine ie: demanding, jealous, aggressive, prone to emotional outburst.

It’s as though my conversation skills, emotional regulation, maturity, and willingness to connect outside of sexual connection were actually a turn off.

Fun_Breakfast697 · 2025-05-29T17:10:48+00:00

Probably worth mentioning that quote is from the 80s, making it roughly 50 years old. It probably did describe a larger swath of men then than now. It is very definitely still accurate for a smaller group today. #NotAllMen and I do mean that sincerely -- I don't even think it's most men. It's definitely some of them, and a lot of the ones who post here! They want a woman, but they hate women, and the combo makes them extremely confused.

Reading comprehension here is terrible so you're just going to get a bunch of smoothbrains mad at you for calling them gay.

abaxeron · 2025-05-29T17:42:49+00:00

In relation to this quote, there are two options.

EITHER radical feminism is a fringe club of provocative writers who always just wanted to draw attention to issues and start important conversations, in which case it's irrelevant,

OR it's an actual root and essence of women's movement, representing women's interests, struggles, and goals as women, in which case there are only two genders: allied forces and enemy combatants.

In reality, men are OVERexposed to women. Women "parent" them at home, "teach" them in schools, "treat" them in hospitals, "fix" their teeth in dental clinics, "manage" them at work. If you see a man "incapable of connecting on any level with women", I suggest trying to give this guy some space. It seems to be the only thing no-one has considered doing.

BCmutt · 2025-05-28T18:06:47+00:00

Take it one step further, are these men capable of approaching even a man to engage in simple conversation. Often the answer is no, so the problems tend to be much deeper than their inability to connect with women.

flipsidetroll · 2025-05-28T18:18:36+00:00

I don’t think it’s heterosexual men. But I do think there is a small group of Heterosexual men who veer towards this. There is nothing wrong with being proud to be a man, to have strengths and abilities that women don’t, but when that self love extends to female hate, then it’s in cult territory. And there is a small group of feminists who are the same. They can love being a woman, but they also act like men are the enemy. So it’s not only one side that does this.

I’ll add another inflammatory argument …. The men that “lead” that group of man-loving men, they don’t want the competition from women. That’s why they say don’t simp for women, because they want men simping for them. That’s how they make their money. They NEED men to hate women. Those men buy their books and donate money and shares and likes get them paid. Those influencers need their followers.

ScreenTricky4257 · 2025-05-29T01:09:34+00:00

That's funny, because I always hear how friendships among women are about real sharing while friendships among men are shallow and they don't actually talk about serious issues. Which would seem to counter this view.

analt223 · 2025-05-28T18:11:24+00:00

This isnt entirely on men, but both people need to change. I have tried to connect with women on a way that I would deem normal and also as an attempt to maybe date them/build a personal connection, but when I have done this they viewed it as "kinda gay". Grant it this was when I was in my late teens, so I hope maybe women would mature a bit, but it was kinda sad, and definitely stunted my dating life.

This notion that toxic masculinity is only kept alive by other men is just not my life experience. Sure men might do the "man card" thing, but I see plenty of women kinda do a revoking of a "man card" too, just maybe not quite as direct.

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Training-Cook3507 · 2025-05-28T18:34:03+00:00

What do you want? People aren't perfect. You'll never find a perfect person who meets the exact definition of a partner you feel you deserve because someone told you you deserve it.

Zestyclose_Sugar4573 · 2025-05-28T19:24:19+00:00

Generally, it would seem natural that most men will immitate and follow other men who they consider to be examples or role models. Men do learn from other men. Those who don't have a father/father figure may find things harder. If men have any female role models, they would be made to feel uncomfortable by other men.

Radiant-Community467 · 2025-05-28T20:22:02+00:00

It seems you are wrong. Let's imagine a woman who so far had interactions only with her father. Now she's interested in romantic relations. Will she end up having romantic relations of some sort? Most likely yes, there will be a lot of men interested in dating her.

So the problem is not what you said, it's the different expectations from men and women.

wtknight · 2025-05-28T20:32:15+00:00

I think that men who have similar interests and are actually friends with the women whom they date don’t usually expect this kind of service. So I don’t think that it’s close to universal that heterosexual men think of women this way, although it happens often enough that it rightfully annoys most women.

The biggest problem is that many men have not adapted to the idea of women working just as much as them, and that they therefore have to take up just as much of the domestic work that she does. A man would be more perfectly willing to work long hours for a woman doing the work at home. Traditional men don’t see this as her “serving” him, but rather men and women doing different work in different spheres. Heck, many men think that they are doing more work than the stay at home wife, and thus he is really serving her.

Junior_Ad_3086 · 2025-05-29T15:00:38+00:00

it's not that black and white (especially the part about only wanting women for servitude and sex) but there's an element of truth to it and i think it's largely tied to evolutionary biology. our male ancestors had to both cooperate and compete with other men for survival, society was largely built by men and generally speaking men can relate better to other men and have more things in common with them (hobbies, interests etc.).

personally, i don't think there's anything wrong with it as long as men aren't outright hateful to women (which most men aren't, unless you subscribe to twox radfem type of talking points). my close circle is pretty much entirely men outside of family/my gf and most of my friends are similar but that doesn't mean we hate women and can't socialize with them or treat them as normal human beings.

starbetrayer · 2025-05-30T23:58:31+00:00

I stopped at the title

No_Title_615 · 2025-05-31T00:16:32+00:00

No the problem is that women automatically hate them and treat them badly unless they are like 6ft and handsome.

nr_guidelines · 2025-05-31T07:23:49+00:00

I don't love anybody

3ONEthree · 2025-06-01T07:07:05+00:00

You’re conceptual understanding of “love” is the issue here. Get that fixed first.

JonMyMon · 2025-05-28T18:37:41+00:00

This is a misandrist screed

Lift_and_Lurk · 2025-05-28T18:24:35+00:00

“people whom they admire , respect, adore, revere, honour, whom they imitate, idolise, and form profound attachments to, whom they are willing to teach and from whom they are willing to learn, and whose respect, admiration, recognition, honour, reverence, and love they desire”

Uhh this doesn’t sound like heterosexual behavior if it gets them to desire and the only ones that fit this bill is other men.

Just saying.

Freevoulous · 2025-05-28T18:33:59+00:00

Absolutely correct, based, and we need more of it. Every man needs his Aragorn.

ComprehensivePipe448 · 2025-05-28T18:16:44+00:00

It’s hard to respond or argue against this is straight up delusional to the point I don’t know what u are referring to ? Have u perhaps been in the real world ? Or have friends

klaire_bear_ · 2025-05-28T18:11:01+00:00

Uh no,

I think there’s a contingency of self-denying homosexuality within some manosphere partakers which gives off that impression

But most men want to love and be loved, and dearly, by women.

A huge chunk of the male loneliness thing is a lack of emotional connection with women specifically.

They got a certain kind of emotional touch that men do not

Mydragonurdungeon · 2025-05-28T18:14:06+00:00

Let's say this is true.

Doesn't this imply women can relate to men but not the opposite?

Meaning, is it not possible that women are not as relatable as men are?

anonqwertyq · 2025-05-28T19:49:53+00:00

And can you blame heterosexual men? Maybe women should be more like men if they want men to befriend them.

Title	The problem with heterosexual men
Author	klaire_bear_
Upvotes	0
Comments	206
Date	May 28, 2025 6:00 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1kxnvqe/the_problem_with_heterosexual_men/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/the-problem-with-heterosexual-men.1553354 https://theredarchive.com/post/1553354

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