What exactly is wrong with female led relationships?

damaskrose · 2019-07-26T20:06:29+00:00

Nothing, except its a dynamic that actually only works with a naturally dominant Woman and a naturally submissive Man. Most humans just aren't like that though and situations where it is more 'forced' (Woman in the relationship taking up the slack although she'd prefer the guy to, but he is lazy) just end up badly.

petrichordium · 2019-07-26T19:42:56+00:00

So I actually found the whole pillosphere debate bc i was just confused about why my really adventurous sex filled ecstatic relationships floundered into relative celibacy after a few years when we tried to be domestic. (I say relative bc going from frequent druggy threesomes and moresomes to even median human sexuality is a hard landing). It puzzled me bc honestly I haven’t been single since the bush administration and everything else about the relationships were decent except the sex. They loved me and showed it in other ways.

I wasn’t always a gross wooderson dating women well outside the half your age plus seven rule. One of my best relationships was a very gender roles vague thing with this super awesome girl who i backpacked around the world and rode motos and just got into all kinds of ridiculous hijinks with. Every relationship of hers had taught her men were super brittle when they weren’t in charge, and she loved that i was just almost always game for her fancies, and she showed it by letting me get away with ridiculous things that have spoiled me on normal timid women for a lifetime.

But even that one felt like it strained under our... mutual androgyny as time transpired. We opened the relationship for solo stuff beyond the group stuff that had been the rule. She gravitated toward a super tall (she was tall) dude who was classic dark triad stormy bad boy, and i gravitated toward this manic pixie waif who was like 90 lbs sopping wet. Basically it started to feel like we run from the deep grooves of human sexuality, and we can get far and accomplish fascinating things, but eventually they come and snap back at us. (Realize I’m blending the psychological and physiological but there you go).

Basically my male experience has been that women can LOVE men in such relationships but have trouble FUCKING them as time transpires. That’s useless to me, ew. And then there is the male preference. It seems like many men cannot be their best selves being led. Like i have also realized how many of my failures or even quirks are my own. Again i loved that girl in an androgynous way, but i could never love her in a chivalric way. I’m a tiny twink and on some level i can only feel chivalric about tiny waif women bc the normal sized ones cannot inspire that sense of visceral care in me. You could probably extend that physical thing psychologically. And if a woman can keep fucking me despite not being treated in a traditionally masculine way I’m down to try it. It just seems like most humans prefer SOME kind of traditional thing.

Edit: I don’t identify as redpill but i also have just empirically gravitated toward much more typical relationships as I have aged

FlavFal · 2019-07-26T19:35:03+00:00

I'd have no problem with it in isolation but I have my doubts that a woman will remain sexually attracted. It sounds like that's not been the case for you, which is good. But in my opinion rare.

I'm extremely easygoing (which is why I'd be ok with a woman led relationship in theory), except when it comes to sex.

I simply will not stick around to experience a framework that leads to the girl being less attracted to me, thus being less willing to consistently please me sexually, and that's been my (admittedly limited) experience being the guy in a relationship such as yours.

johnhawkinsbp · 2019-07-26T19:35:42+00:00

Every woman I have ever known in a relationship like that, even if it seems to work early on, loses respect for the guy because he's not strong enough to lead and has forced her to take a masculine role because of his weakness. Then it eventually implodes. Hope you buck the trend, but it's probably unlikely...

THE_MASKED_DOWNVOTTO · 2019-07-26T20:31:36+00:00

I read an OK Cupid stat the other day that stated when women do reach out and initiate a relationship with a man, it's typically the case that the woman is reaching out for a guy who is 25% more attractive than she is.

When women "accept" attempts from men, they end up settling with a guy who is 25% less attractive.

Willow-girl · 2019-07-27T05:22:38+00:00

The optimal structure IMO is when I handle the stuff I'm good at while he does the stuff he's good at. Very little conflict that way! But YMMV.

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2019-07-26T19:23:20+00:00

Nothing is "wrong" with them at all. Men tend to be unhappy in them because men do not get the respect or the sex that they desire in them. it is not a moral issue, nobody cares if you have a female led relationship good luck and God-bless. But I will tell you that not a single red pill person will believe any woman's account of how happy a man is in a female led relationship either with the level of respect or level of sex that he gets

TheBookOfSeil · 2019-07-26T19:27:25+00:00

I think it has something to do with men typically being more stable and not having to be convinced on a weekly basis to continue the relationship. With men, usually, once you’re in, you’re in, and it’s somewhat difficult to topple the relationship unless some serious shit happens (cheating, emotional instability/outbursts, etc). With women, you have to “renew your relationship license” because they will constantly be analyzing and evaluating the relationship and their partner to make sure that they are satisfied with their mate choice, and that’s why “female-led relationships” are “bad.” They’re more unstable and more likely to fall apart/end.

ppdthrowawai · 2019-07-26T22:58:23+00:00

I'm going to take a different approach to this. Sure, I have witnessed countless female led relationships where the man is almost universally despised or talked about with disgust. On the other hand, I don't think it's necessarily that women universally find submissive men unattractive. It's more that dominant women are much less likely to attract a guy that checks all the boxes.

Those dudes have options. They want agreeable and easy women. The ones who want to run the show..... Eh, no thanks I'll pick someone else. So while there's not anything wrong by default with female led couples, it's much less likely to be a couple with a desirable man. They're usually passive, wimpy, unaccomplished, or completely lacking ambition.

Tomatoccino · 2019-07-27T03:55:53+00:00

Men are happy when they think they’re “the boss”. The trick is to just let them keep thinking that; like you do with headstrong toddlers and parachuted in management.

MrHerbSherman · 2019-07-26T19:21:43+00:00

Worst of both worlds

In practice it usually ends up that you get a girl who sucks at girling and is mediocre at leading

Also there is no such thing as egalitarian other than as an ideal, in practice someone always leads more and in general significantly more

CosmicBioHazard · 2019-07-26T23:57:01+00:00

There’s an aspect of relationships that I’d love a woman to “lead”, and I can’t put my finger on what to call it, but for the sake of argument, a woman who I once saw embody what I’m getting at did this;

Her method of easing his anxiety about a multitude of things that were weighing him down emotionally, but ultimately could be overcome as mental blocks, was to insist she was a wizard and “zap” them away, then proceed to take control of the needed emotinal recovery. This is the absolute one thing that men could never muster without the leadership of a woman.

JezebeltheQueen5656 · 2019-07-27T10:39:32+00:00

nothing, there will always be men who arent brainwashed by patriarchy and accept their true position goddess intended.

blackedoutfast · 2019-07-26T21:09:56+00:00

because females are inherently terrible leaders.

the biological reasons for this are very clear. women were designed by our Lord and Savior Donald J Trump (pbuh) to submit to men.

cxj · 2019-07-26T19:59:08+00:00

Nobody is happy in them lol . U can feel free to do them though I’m not ur boss

we-are-men-with-ven · 2019-07-27T14:12:28+00:00

I think some people just always find themselves in relationships with a lot of disagreements. When you encounter lots of disagreements, it's easier if one person gets into the habit of just 'giving in'.

I don't encounter this much (or at all) with my partner, so making joint decisions over everything is very viable

I think it helps if you have a partner with a similar outlook on life, so you have similar wants and goals.

FlavFal · 2019-08-20T06:34:34+00:00

I am married and in a pretty strongly Female Lead Relationship. It works fantastically well for us, and has been working well for 12 years, both sexually and emotionally, but that is because we are both quite atypical, I think. It can only work if both partners are wired somewhat differently from the norm. I think sexual chemistry is a good indicator, but so is the woman having uncontested leadership in the relationship outside of the bed as well. If you have only one of these 2, something is amiss, because kinks can't support an FLR by themselves, just as a female-lead-relationship where sex is male-lead won't really work in the long run either (I don't mean BDSM by any means, BTW, just who takes the lead sexually).

Littleknownfacts · 2019-07-26T19:20:01+00:00

I would say there is nothing inherently wrong with female led relationships, if it works for you and both you and your partner are happy... Then go knock yourselves out.

But for me, as a woman in a relationship, who is only capable of controlling my own actions and feelings (most of the time), I find it easier to relinquish some of that control in favor of making my partner feel good. In turn, I feel good. I'm able to let go of any resentment for not getting my way, and instead I can enjoy my SOs company regardless of what's going on.

If we were egalitarian, sure I might get my way more often, but since I can't control him, I couldn't make him let go of his resentment. I couldn't force him to enjoy it. I mean, maybe he could and he would let it go and enjoy it. But I really rather not take that gamble with his affection.

goatismycopilot · 2019-07-26T19:19:04+00:00

Nothing till you have kids and you are doing everything. It will get tiring.

MrsChiliad · 2019-07-26T22:07:59+00:00

You have to think of this evolutionarily, and in a caveman situation, because that’s like 90% of our time here on earth, and you can’t just override that part of your brain.

Women (generally speaking) don’t stay attracted to a guy when they are in that situation. We evolved to depend on them, we bleed once a a month for a week, we’d be pregnant or breastfeeding for most of our fertile years and we’re significantly physically weaker. So we’re wired to find a guy who can protect us and who we can trust and follow the lead of.

It’s weird talking about this in non-red pull subs because people for some reason think that following a man’s lead means becoming a doormat or acting dumb or something. It’s not about that whatsoever. When women try to be the “leader” in the relationship, we can be very domineering towards men, and that can kill the relationship. Men (mostly) know how to lead without doing that much easier than women. And like I was stating before, we actually didn’t evolve to be the main leaders in this dynamic, so for most women it’s actually a very anxiety-driving situation, even though you’re more in control.

As someone with a very strong personality, this took me a long time both to realize it was true and to admit that it applies to me too. And my guy even though he also has a pretty strong personality, hates conflict, so our dynamic could very easily flip to one where I’m calling the shots and he’s just getting out of the way so we don’t get into fights. Before I was red pilled I didn’t realize it, but this is where a lot of our conflicts came from, even though we never fought much. And there were way more frustrating situations than now, after I started learning to trust him more and not feel the need to make every decision or be right in every situation. It actually makes me feel a lot more secure in our relationship and way less stressed in general.

Edit: btw if you as a woman are very dominant and your guy is very submissive and that works well for you, I’m not at all saying don’t do it. If it works, it works, and that’s what matters. This is more towards women who don’t understand what isn’t working in their dynamic and are ok with stepping aside a little. It doesn’t mean the relationship will be any less “equal”. It just means it’ll be a relationship between two different parties that fit well together instead of two identical pieces.

rosyandthemachine · 2019-07-26T19:14:44+00:00

nothing is 'wrong' with it. but most men won't prefer it.

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RockSuit · 2019-07-26T19:11:15+00:00

What parts of the relationship is female led?

oneprettycoolcat · 2019-07-27T04:06:03+00:00

Women don't like to or want to lead anything, in almost all cases.

Xemnas81 · 2019-07-27T14:04:25+00:00

If you're a naturally dominant woman it's not a problem. But most women aren't and will resent him for his inability to lead, which kills their attraction. It's a biological thing.

Most women who WANT to be free to be dominant don't want a man to be incapable of leading either. I would put 90% of liberal feminists in this category; they want women to be free to social, professional and political equality (if not supremacy) over men, but in the bedrooms they definitely don't want to be led. This becomes a problem when she assumes that any man beneath her in socioeconomic status is going to suck in bed, while also mandating for women to receive ever-higher SES by virtue of gender quotas, affirmative action programs and tailored education/workshops plus press/media propaganda (again a not uncommon feminist position.)

edit: Bluepillers also conveniently ignore that Redpill explicitly says DO NOT make it obvious that you are leading. And there is a reason for this discussed above; most women are offended by the notion they are incapable of leading, but in no way is this mutually exclusive with finding men who are incapable of leading (or even regularly hesitant to lead) sexually repulsive and unworthy of their respect. This is also why most male feminists are still tradcon in convenient ways.

Fucking hell it's right there in Rollo's Frame post.

binkerfluid · 2019-07-28T08:46:07+00:00

Many Women often wont respect you and wont want to be with you in these situations.

Look at what happens when a man loses his job and the woman is now the leader.

Theres nothing wrong with it other than it often wont work, if it does great.

HellenicLady · 2019-07-28T10:42:40+00:00

Nothing, but most women don't want a man who can't take care of himself. I would find it annoying if I was with a man who is submissive and can't decide for himself.

xoxuv · 2019-07-29T06:53:16+00:00

A female leading, doesn't respects his husband, cannot feel love, even if she wants, she resent him, narcissistically abuse him. She doesn't feel sexually fulfilled, and dreams with replacing the man with a better one.

She makes the life of the man miserable, and if there are children, her rage leaks to the children, ruining the life of the entire family.

Not having a male in charge causes anxiety on the women. She misses the feeling of relaxing, and trusting the man to take charge of the problems.

Tose relations end in divorce, ruined childhood, fights, domestic abuse, cheating, disintegration of trust. Hell.

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Title	What exactly is wrong with female led relationships?
Author	FlavFal
Upvotes	15
Comments	194
Date	July 26, 2019 6:40 PM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/ci6pkf/what_exactly_is_wrong_with_female_led/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/what-exactly-is-wrong-with-female-led.254729 https://theredarchive.com/post/254729

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