Are men becomming less attractive to women?

YourDadsNewGF · 2018-11-10T13:15:27+00:00

I think you're conflating desirability with necessity.

To look at this another way, I make (a lot) more money than my husband. He works hard at a job he loves, and I respect that. But he's not the primary "breadwinner." I am. And the truth is, I would be financially fine without him. I own our house; I bought it before we were married. I own my car outright (bought before we were married.) I have all my student loans paid off. I have a successful career in a fairly lucrative career. I don't need him from a financial standpoint.

But here is the thing: I love and want him completely aside from needing his financial support. Because I am financially independent, I'm not worried about marrying the guy that can pay my bills. I can do that myself. I wanted to be with the guy that makes me laugh, that makes my heart soar, that I love spending time with, that makes me happy. I love him completely for who he is as a person. And I'm free to do so because money is not a primary concern for me. He can work at his rewarding but not high paying job without me being up in his grill for not "supporting me" better because I'm totally capable of supporting myself. I'm not in this for the cash, I'm in this because I love who he is as a person. I love his sense of humor and his intelligence and his sweetness and really just everything about who he is. On the balance, maybe it would be easier for men to find a spouse based on their money, but would you rather be tolerated for your money or loved for who you are?

mgtow_1 · 2018-11-10T07:26:28+00:00

This is why most traditional societies and religions have men as providers, leaders, etc. It sets men up in a favorable way to attract women which then creates stable families. We are dismantling this structure in our society and only time will tell if it was the beginning of something new or the beginning of the end.

CainPrice · 2018-11-10T12:09:56+00:00

Men are as attractive as they always were. But today women need men less. We've removed financial dependence, normalized divorce, normalized casual sex. Now, women can have the sex and relationships they want - or at least try for them - instead of the marriage they used to need.

This is overall a great thing, except for men who aren't attractive enough to be wanted. They used to end up with wives just for having a job. Now, they have to deal with the uncomfortable truth that once social pressure and consequences are removed (or at least lightened) for women, the commitment of a man has zero intrinsic value. Women would rather have purely recreational sex with an attractive guy they actually like than a full fledged relationship with a guy they're just kind of lukewarm about. And today women can do what they actually want instead of being herded by social constraints.

Things got harder for men when they couldn't just navigate life on auto pilot and end up with a wife automatically.

Young_Oryx · 2018-11-10T07:31:17+00:00

Men are becoming less necessary to women, not less attractive.

On_The_Tweek_Again · 2018-11-10T10:27:23+00:00

I think there are more opportunities to isolate yourself and live an asocial life and the people doing that are going online to for some reason blame others for the fact that they’re alone.

Mr_White119811 · 2018-11-10T08:16:13+00:00

No.

Back in the day, when men financially supported women. They would spend their day in the pits working. A woman wanted different things, ie they needed a mans resources.

Nowadays, men have more free time, and there are more things for a man to do other than work. eg, MMA, Extreme Sports, Boxing, Gym training, etc. This creates men with confidence.

On the other end of the spectrum its easy for a guy to do nothing and sit in a basement and beat off to WOW.

So there is more variety in guys.

So women are going to appear more picky due to the cariety of guys.

The question isn't "Are men becomming less attractive to women?", its is "What am I doing to make myself attractive to a woman". And if all you have to offer is money, then your going to attract gold diggers only.

JoeyjoejoeFS · 2018-11-10T14:57:04+00:00

The idea of a man's worth being a weighing factor to how attractive the relationship prospect will be has dropped in value and has been for a while. Women are no longer anywhere near as dependant on men as they used to be, so a mans ability to be bread winner is less of a factor for them. Though there is a breed of women who find it to be quite an attractive prospect (mainly because they don't have to work and is supports their lifestyle).

If being a provider is the most attractive factor for someone having a relationship with you then it was not going to be a great relationship and is probably the main formula for dead bedrooms.

The harsh truth is, the closer we get to female independence the more women will treat men like men treated women forever; That their physical attractiveness is the most important trait that will be a key defining factor in what quality partner they will get. The thing is that here, because its been like this so long for women, is where women have a huge advantage. They know how to make themselves better and to looks-max. They have entire product lines that cater to hiding bad genetic markers (or things that society deems as 'unattractive', which doesn't always follow logic at all). Since this hasn't been as much of an issue for men until recently they are way behind. Though with things like, wigs/hair implants, lifts even chin implants it seems to be moving in that direction.

killallthenarcs · 2018-11-10T08:24:33+00:00

What has happened is that women have less incentive to PRETEND to be attracted and aroused by men who have been increasingly less desirable to them over many generations, due attractiveness (and especially male attractiveness) having been systematically sidelined as a reproductive factor in favor of wealth.

The recently overturned system favored whoring (if you take whoring in the broader context, of faking for profit a response that is not actually felt) and favored it heavily. If anything it bred BOTH sexes to be less genuinely attractive to each other. Women who did not fake responses had no other game they could play (divorce, just saying no, earning their own money) and they and their children suffered. Men who could not elicit an honest attraction response still got to breed at the same rate as those who could.

What we see now is a correction of a situation that has been created by many generations of a marriage system that did not allow divorces, and was compounded by the forcing of women out of the economic sphere.

The correction had to come sooner or later.

reluctantly_red · 2018-11-10T08:30:49+00:00

Hmmm I would say women are becoming less attracted to the men who only see them as baby making machines who will lose interest when their youth (fertility) wanes. Now that women can look after themselves financially they can look for a more mature life long companion who will love them after the babies or even if they both chose no babies!

Young_Oryx · 2018-11-10T08:38:52+00:00

Attraction is not a rational or even conscious decision so it doesn't matter if you actually provide for her or not. Like men are attracted to fake boobs even though they don't make milk.

PennnyLame · 2018-11-10T07:29:15+00:00

If you have to support a woman to be attractive to her, you’re doing it wrong.

jackandjill22 · 2018-11-10T08:41:32+00:00

I don't see anything about a decline in female orgasms. If anything I think women are having more orgasms because they have more options and choice. Plus men are working on their looks and health more rather than being broken down from working in a factory for 18 hours that day. Easier lives, healthier and more vitality; a winner for the modern woman.

DXBrigade · 2018-11-10T12:15:53+00:00

Traditionnally, men are hypergamous in looks and youth and women are hypergamous in money and status. So we had the old rich man x young hot woman classic couple. Then feminism happened and expectations evolved. Women care more about looks nowadays and men have to put more effort in that area. Men don't want to marry a housewife, they want a woman who do something out of her life.

vanBeethovenLudwig · 2018-11-10T13:14:32+00:00

Yes, I do agree, for several reasons.

Men and women have easily become friends and while it leads to a stronger relationship, it gives no attraction for the woman if she constantly sees men as either "her brother" or someone she shares hobbies/interests with but doesn't really respect. I admit I'm a culprit of this - I'll "catch up" with my guy friends from college and while I feel a deep support and victory for their successes, I'm not attracted to them.

I think men have also been too accommodating - and I think there is a difference between supporting your woman and catering too much to her. There needs to be a mix of admiration and slight fear for a woman to respect a man, and a man who is too kind will not be able to keep a woman attracted.

Women still respect men who can make big decisions and guide them, and let her trust him. It is this softness and "melting point" that makes a woman attracted to a man - because she knows he will protect her.

abaxeron · 2018-11-10T15:00:37+00:00

If this train of thought is true, don't men become less attractive the more able women are to take care of everything themselves?

Women are not "able to take care of everything themselves"; women are able to vote for the men who will solve their problems for them at other men's expense. This is a very crucial difference. Does it affect men's attractiveness to women? - I think, marginally; women of the past probably felt almost the same disdain for dick-plebs as women of today.

_Neon_Shadow_ · 2018-11-10T08:07:32+00:00

No. Women still love Chad.

mydikishomofobik · 2018-11-10T07:24:24+00:00

Women are hypergamous. They want men who are above them. So the more women get equal economic, educational, social, and career status, the less they find most men attractive.

[deleted] · 2018-11-10T14:56:22+00:00

I think that men are becoming less attractive (for relationships) to women because of how society is changing.

Go back 50 years, dating was super important. It was super important and deeply ingrained in society that you're in a serious relationship with hopes for marriage upon exiting high school, and god forbid you being single any older than that. It was incentivized societally for both men and women, since raising children was seen as something that had to happen, marriage had to happen (or else you're living in sin!), and only one income was needed to support a family.

Nowadays, women don't need men anymore. There are as many women who don't want kids as women who do. Women also seem better at adding meaning and purpose to their lives that isn't in the form of being attractive to the opposite sex or has to do with sexual relationships (volunteering, activism, etc.). I don't think sexual attraction has to do with it, there's just less incentive for women to want to commit to men or have sex with them, as women typically have lower sex drives than men. Women are easily satisfied emotionally by their relationships with family and friends, to supplement that of an intimate partner. Women do better perpetually single than men.

Societal pressure is a powerful thing. I grew up in a conservative environment, and upon graduating high school at 17, I made sure to be in a serious relationship. I got older and discovered that this wasn't what I wanted at all, and haven't been in a serious relationship since (I'm 22 now). I have a lot of engaging hobbies and work to do, very fulfilling friendships and a life "mission" at the moment, I don't feel the burning desire to be in a relationship anymore.

Noxin__Nixon · 2018-11-10T16:13:27+00:00

No. Not at all. Spend more time in the real world and less on the internet.

Your entire premise is flawed. You have no way of knowing what life was like 100-200-300 years ago. You can imagine but ultimately how you imagine life was like as a man 100 years ago is going to be filtered through your belief system. Its not valid.

People romanticize an idea of how things used to be so they can then complain about how things are now

Kittennoodle · 2018-11-11T02:45:41+00:00

I've never personally felt like a man needs to "provide". It's more important that he's driven.

HalfysReddit · 2018-11-10T14:18:24+00:00

If this train of thought is true, don't men become less attractive the more able women are to take care of everything themselves?

Men become less necessary as we have less of a monopoly on resources, yes.

That just means that whatever attraction does occur though is more organic and less tied to access to resources.

[deleted] · 2018-11-10T15:51:31+00:00

I would say the opposite. Pressure on women to look good has never been higher. Add to that the “window shopping” culture of online dating where relationships seem to have died off in favour of casual sex, it’s never been harder.

Christian_Kong · 2018-11-10T16:04:36+00:00

I think they are, in the sense that the bar has been raised higher as to what women can unrealistically think they can attain, due to modern dating practices. An average early 20somthing woman can STR 10-20 dudes per year. They can often take the best aspects of these guys and think that they can attain a guy with all the best aspects of the past 30 dudes they banged. Doing something like this has become easy for women since online dating has been a thing.

azngirl7689 · 2018-11-10T18:50:31+00:00

Yes. At this point, men aren’t as necessary as they once were. I can buy my own home, buy my own whatever. If I’m with a man now, it’s because I want to be.

That said, this doesn’t mean that men don’t need to have their shit together! Get a job, have some savings, have a good credit score, pay your bills, have it together. The fact that women can earn their own money just increases the importance of financial compatibility (how you spend money, priorities, what kind of lifestyle do you want?).

Money is a big factor in a lot of divorces. It’s not about gold digging. It’s about being compatible when it comes to a huge factor in life. And also, yes, reproduction. Maternity leave policies are lacking in the USA. He needs to be able to support you while you take that 12 weeks to bond with your sweet newborn baby.

JezebeltheQueen5656 · 2018-11-10T20:31:39+00:00

what about women who dont want to reproduce? what about males who dont want kids?

Willow-girl · 2018-11-11T01:37:08+00:00

I blame the skinny jeans, myself.

talcobh · 2018-11-11T07:15:10+00:00

I agree that women are less financially dependent on men these days and as a result (at least for the women I know), they don't really care as much about how much a man earns. That said, I wouldn't say men are becoming less attractive to women overall, merely that what is considered "attractive" has changed. Whereas before women looked for men who could provide for them physically and financially, now they are looking for the man with the best genetic traits (whether that be physical appearance, personality, skills/hobbies/interests). I think that women care more about looks today than they ever did in the past, and also it doesn't matter how much you earn anymore, moreso you have to show the woman through your career and/or interests that you have passion in life and are good at something.

PearsOfWrath · 2018-11-10T08:05:33+00:00

Yeah, because more and more men are buying into feminist bullshit and becoming emasculated.

I also think it's sedentary lifestyles. That doesn't matter too much for women, it matters a lot for men. You lose the childish look and personality by going out and doing shit, not by sitting inside.

[deleted] · 2018-11-10T13:29:18+00:00

And perhaps because testosterone is at an all time low on average. But I think it comes down to a number of factors. One interesting fact to know is that our DNA evidence shows that we have twice as many female ancestors, meaning woman are designed to look at half of males and pretty much say nope. More interesting 8000 years ago it was 17 woman per man. It is speculated that this is apart of our evolutionary design to only let the better half (or less) of the crop pass on there genes. This is why woman have such a strong instinct for strong alpha males, because they can protect them and perhaps pass on their genes to their kids. Or better yet get alpha genes and make a beta take care of the baby and her. This is why on dating websites you see the top 20% of males get all the attention. Also society is changing, so woman rate the importance of there partners attributes differently. For example “looks” rates higher than the past do to our society pushing models, tv, advertisements, ect on us, telling us beautiful males are “successful”. So now that is more of an important factor in dating, for it increases their status. I could keep going and obviously this isn’t concrete, but it’s a pretty accurate generalization.

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[deleted] · 2018-11-10T12:58:34+00:00

A man needs to be able to support her since reproduction is way more harsh on women.

don't men become less attractive the more able women are to take care of everything themselves?

RMV = SMV.. again... how many people are going to fuck up the very basics?

CombatStacey · 2018-11-10T13:07:03+00:00

You don't understand attraction from a woman's point of view.

The attraction to a good looking, nice body male is primal for women. If, on top of that, he's loving and caring and seems like he'll be a good father in the future, he's a keeper.

A big no to women being able to do it all themselves and not needing a man. Cis women want to love and be loved by a man. Raising children and running a household is also very hard and men are very much needed. Also, men bring their masculinity to a relationship - and women like masculinity. She's hard wired to like it.

ZaphodBeeblebrows · 2018-11-10T14:50:22+00:00

Nope

Xemnas81 · 2018-11-23T02:47:22+00:00

A common right wing MRA argument: "The welfare state and Daddy Government have rendered men and fathers disposable conveniences."

If we assume this is true then we end up with the Pareto principle to sex.

shagawaga · 2018-11-10T18:37:25+00:00

mm yes but not because we're more self sufficient. i think women are just getting sick of the toxic bullshit that wafts around patriarchal culture

Title	Are men becomming less attractive to women?
Author	Nobodykers
Upvotes	50
Comments	329
Date	November 10, 2018 7:08 AM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/9vsezp/are_men_becomming_less_attractive_to_women/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/are-men-becomming-less-attractive-to-women.259119 https://theredarchive.com/post/259119

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