So this post was taken down in the days before the blanket incel ban. So I'd like to circle back to it. I think it is pretty reasonable and doesn't contain "woe-is-me" incel nonsense. So I hope it stays...
When we speak of incels, we often talk about the theories that black-pill users here spout. However, from my observations of the dating scene and meeting single men in real life, a significant portion of involuntary celibate men are female worshiping white-knights. These men I will call blue-pill incels because that's what they are; vehemently anti-RP in their beliefs and involuntarily celibate.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MensLib/comments/7wuvg5/does_anyone_else_feel_bad_about_themselves_when/
For most of my life, seeing attractive women has often caused me a lot of pain. I see them and start thinking about how unattractive I believe myself to be and how lonely I am. They are an automatic trigger to all kinds of negative thoughts and feelings: shame, self-hatred etc. I have developed the belief that getting the approval of attractive women, dating them, being able to have sex with them is the only thing that proves a man has any value. Of course, I don’t believe this intellectually, but on a gut level, it feels so true. I’m 29 and never had a girlfriend, never had sex ... all of that stuff, but I don’t identify with the incel label. I feel that this belief and this attitude has held me back and caused me more damage than perhaps any other problem I may have, but until discovering Men’s Lib I didn’t feel safe talking about it anywhere. I still feel a little uneasy about posting this, but I need help. Does anyone relate to this or have any advice? Any thoughts? Any explanations?
Some comment responses:
- For me, I experience the most pain (mental anguish, suffering, tilted, triggered, whichever word you prefer), when I see the men that attractive women are with. I'll feel like I won't ever measure up to them and that I won't be able to attract a woman with the qualities I'd like. I know that from where you are it's hard to see beyond the issue in front of you. Know that you're not the only one who feels that pain when seeing women you're attracted to. You're not the only one who doubts their value and self worth. However, when you do have sex, you'll find that the issues are still there waiting for you. They just look different and need you to heal them.
- I feel the same. For me, though, I don't really care about how much "value" others put on me as a man. I don't want to date women, sleep with them, etc. because I want others to see me as more of a man. I want to do those things because, well...I'm lonely and want genuine human connection. But then I start to really hate myself for having those desires in the first place. The thought of me as a sexual being, a social being, or even an emotional being is just...weird and uncomfortable. Those are emotions that I feel very uncomfortable with. I'm much more comfortable in a head-space of anger, self-hatred, and isolation.
- Well, I guess I am technically involuntarily celibate, so in that sense I'm an incel. Then again, if we go by the literal definition, lots of people are incels.
- Yes, constantly. It's one of the (admittedly many) reasons why I prefer winter over spring or summer. At least during that time my hormones leave me alone. It's also one of the (almost as numerous) reasons why I hate going to the gym...
- But, yeah, that sense of shame and self-hatred is something I can relate to. But I also don't want to make any kind of advances on women, mostly out of respect. I think there was a line from The 40-Year Old Virgin that said it best: "I respect women so much I completely stay away from them". At the risk of sounding like I'm wallowing, I genuinely think that women already have to deal with so much shit from men - catcalling, sexual harassment, rape, unequal pay, the election of Trump - that I think they deserve to be left alone by guys who don't really have a chance with them and would only be wasting their time by trying to get with them. But that's just my $0.02.
- I have developed the belief that getting the approval of attractive women, dating them, being able to have sex with them is the only thing that proves a man has any value.
From my observations of the dating market, most unsuccessful men today fit into this category. They basically love women so much that they can't bear to impose their sexual desires on them. They internalize the misandry that the loudest and most radical feminists spew.
Before the thread was deleted, an ex-BP incel told us:
As an ex bluepill incel, I agree that's what most incels are. I still hold a lot of bp beliefs but I am aware of advantage and advice rp offers, I was aware of it in my early 20s but only in late 20s began to actively put it in practice. And it worked all the time. That's how I ditched toxic bp ideas, such as that women and men are equal or that one has to befriend a girl in order for her to feel attraction. I still have some doubts but time after time I get only confirmation of rp ideas. It just works...I think real actual mental illness is only responsible in minority of incels. Most just have simple depression combined with anxiety and again, shitty parents.
Q4All: Why do you suspect these men feel unable to express their sexuality?
Q4All: What portion of involuntarily celibate men do you suspect can be classified as "blue-pill incels"?
General discussion about blue-pill incels.
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