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Addiction is not holding frame.

by WhitePhillip | April 03, 2017 | TheRedPill

1042 upvotes

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So you've quit smoking weed for two weeks. Except when you're with friends. Wicked progress, dude.
If you can't stop smoking weed, boozing, jerking off, overeating, whatever... You're not truly free. That dosen't mean you're a loser. But none of those things improve your life. They just keep you stuck in the same loop you're in right now.
When you were young, you found things that made you happy and pursued them. The dopamine you got from real friends, relationships, sports, and goals was your reward for doing it. Maybe you got your heart broken. Maybe you lost your job. Whatever the reason, you took something that gave you false happiness. And it made you feel good. Real good. So you did it again. And again. For months. Years.
And while you were busy making false happiness, you forgot how to make real happiness. So you have another hit. You stuff your face with flaming hot garbage and jerk off into the bag. You lose another month. You lose another year.
Addiction is dehumanizing. It takes away all motivation to get out and succeed. "Why should I put in all that work when I can just jack off and play video games? They make me happy!" Because it's not happiness. It's an unearned drip of dopamine. It doesn't matter if your Orc is doing high level raids. It's not real. It doesn't matter what starlet is doing VR porn. It's not real. There is no true reward for anything you don't earn. The struggle we go through is what makes success so sweet. That is real.
I challenge each of you. Drop a habit. Level up your own life. It won't be easy. Probably the hardest thing you've ever done. But the rewards are real. And once you learn how to look at your life objectively and overcome your faults THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN'T ACCOMPLISH. There's a man inside of you that's been beaten down, sedated, and forgotten. But he's still here. You are still here. Let that count for something. Show the world what you're really capable of.
If you don't feel like you can do it on your own, it's ok to seek help​. There are a number of resources available to help ending addiction. Find one that works for you. However you go about it is up to you, but take whatever steps you need to get started. Take back your life.

Post Information
Title Addiction is not holding frame.
Author WhitePhillip
Upvotes 1042
Comments 216
Date 03 April 2017 01:28 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit TheRedPill
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/42387
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/636r83/addiction_is_not_holding_frame/
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[–]Endorsed ContributorMeat-on-the-table79 points80 points  (16 children) | Copy

There is such a plethora of distractions tugging at people's attention spans these days that large swaths of society have developed addictions without the slightest remote awareness of it.

When people hear "addiction", they picture some meth-head on a corner, trying to score. They don't for a second stop and think that their dependency on weed or social media, whilst not life-threatening, is certainly deleterious in the long-run.

The most damning aspect of all this is that we really don't have enough of a basis for understanding just what addiction to the new vices of our luxury can bring. Heck, people are just now waking up to the reality that hook-up culture is an ugly manifestation of misguided feminism, rather than a path every young person should pursue before settling down.

I predict that in the next ten or so years, studies and anecdotal evidence will really begin to pile and condemn many of the pleasures and dopamine spikes that are a part of every day life in the West. It's no coincidence that people are increasingly unhappy despite having more reasons than any generation before them to be satisfied with their lives.

The only thing that matters is the pursuit of worthwhile, lasting goals that demand the best of you and leave as lasting an impact on you and those around you as is possible.

[–]UHM-715 points16 points  (0 children) | Copy

People have been, and are, conditioned from birth by nearly every influence to seek pleasure whenever possible and live as hedonistically as possible. You see it everywhere once you realize this. Two examples I can think of off the top of my head in the UK are these two adverts: Find your Flavour (and give into your every desire), and You deserve it (because you do everyday tasks like working out and brushing your teeth)

[–]I_VII_VI_VI_VII_I points points [recovered] | Copy

Hell yeah. I found recently that cutting coffee out of my life has made me much calmer and happier. It's unbelievable. Like any other addiction, it begins to lose it's efficacy. Soon you're just having 2 cups to cure your withdrawal from the day before and make you feel normal. All of these things we use/pursue to give us an artificial 1-up in life end up doing more damage than good.

[–]LookWhatTheyMade4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

I used to drink 8 cups a day which would lead to me being anxious and too exhausted all the time to do anything. Cutting back to 2 cups in the morning would still leave me feeling anxious most of the day and would end up starting to fall asleep around 7:30. After cutting it out completely I feel much calmer throughout the day and no longer start drifting off after work. I do miss the taste of it, but the cons far outweigh drinking it because it tastes good.

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorFieldLine13 points14 points  (9 children) | Copy

Recently I've been taking the time to read about dopamine, serotonin, acetylcholine and GABA receptors. I was prompted to do so after reading multiple biographies of successful people and realizing that they had one thing in common - the ability to hone in on a task with laser precision, without being distracted by the world around them.

Naturally this begs the question - why do I have to meditate and regulate my blood sugar (through my food choices) for optimal cognitive function, when guys like Musk don't? And then I realized that like most guys my age (early 20s), I grew up stimulated by too much porn. I really believe that consuming insane amounts of internet pornography in my late teens caused irreversible damage to my brain. I wonder if I'll ever actually manage to fix it completely.

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (3 children) | Copy

The body and brain in particular have a tremendous capacity for healing themselves. Look into neuroplacticity.

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorFieldLine6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy

True. But the brain never has the potential to change as much as it does before puberty, when your brain is still forming, and in your late teens/early 20s, when the white matter finishes developing. This is why it's much easier for children to pick up languages and music if they start at a younger age.

Change is still possible, as you said, the ability to "rewire" your brain continues well into adulthood. Just not at the same rate as in one's childhood, and ideally there wouldn't be any negative neuroplacticity already in place.

[–]myepicdemise2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Which makes me wonder how much irreversible damage I've done to my brain having internet and porn addiction throughout my teens.

[–]GeorgeKarlin1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Don't worry about it. The brain is a muscle. If you're alive, you can build it. Just like some old people start going to the gym, they will never be at good as young ones, but they can be pretty good. Even if you have irreversible damade to your brain (aka harder for you to have self discipline) you can still accomplish crazy amount of things.

Focus on what you CAN do rather than what you CANNOT do.

Focusing on what you CAN do will lead you to happiness by overcoming struggles.

Focusing on what you CANNOT do will lead you to bitterness and anger because you cannot change the past.

Your life, your choice.

I hope it helped

[–]LethalShade11 points12 points  (2 children) | Copy

There's also evidence to show that over stimulation at a young age literally causes ADHD in people. Combine the porn with video games, movies, etc which in this society you start getting exposed to before 5 usually, and you got a recipe for brain chemistry fiasco.

[–]frawgz1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I am this brain chemistry fiasco, and this thread is helping me get the ammunition I need to solve it.

[–]tucksax324250 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Good luck, and make sure you don't forget/give up. That's the mistake I always make.

[–]LittleDevil10 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

What biographies are you referencing?

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'll just point out your reasoning flaw here, regarding "why should I do this when Elon doesn't do it?"

Do you have an estimated IQ of around 150+? No? Why would you compare yourself to him then.

It's like comparing Apples with Oranges.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Will be very very interesting how stuff like instagram factors into this.

Nearly every girl I know who uses instagram intensively has the 1000 cock stare, the correlation is strong as fuck.

[–]Meshakhad2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

When people hear "addiction", they picture some meth-head on a corner, trying to score. They don't for a second stop and think that their dependency on weed or social media, whilst not life-threatening, is certainly deleterious in the long-run.

This was me three years ago. Got into recovery, now two years sober, graduated college, and have a full ride scholarship to grad school.

[–]killermike-el-P344 points345 points  (87 children) | Copy

Before anyone comments the "I hit a joint and I still work hard" sentence. I think OP is directing this to people with less self control.

[–]MrJanglesLovesBooty1196 points197 points  (32 children) | Copy

There's nothing wrong with smoking weed responsibly, but a lot of potheads are in denial about their addiction. So many of them are content with mediocrity, and that's how it becomes destructive.

"It's just a plant mannnn". Shit is cringe-worthy.

[–]kshell1172442 points43 points  (28 children) | Copy

"Mediocrity". This thread is filled with subjective concepts. The only difference between mediocrity and success is an individual's mindset. Why would one equate contentment with destruction? Sounds like it'd be the opposite to me.

[–]good_guy_submitter points points [recovered] | Copy

If you don't wake up excited to live another day of life, you are living in mediocrity.

How is that for a relevant definition?

[–]mrcooliest73 points74 points  (1 child) | Copy

Shit ive been living in mediocrity since I went to kindergarten lmfao.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

It's not something to laugh about. Living like that shouldn't be acceptable. It's nobody's fault but your own and it's up to you to change it. And I'm not talking about happiness. Just realize you gotta get up in the morning and do shit.

I'm saying this to myself just as much as you, BTW.

[–]wendysNO1wcheese27 points28 points  (11 children) | Copy

Having that as a goal is setting yourself up for failure. The world will never be perfect. You will never be perfect. Accept those two facts and smile. It’s perfectly normal to have bad days.

Not a Christian, but this prayer sums it up.

God grant me serenity to accept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can, And wisdom to know the difference.

[–]alexclarkbarry-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

really made my day, great post!

[–]kshell11724-4 points-3 points  (2 children) | Copy

For sure, that's a pretty good bar to define mediocrity. But still, many others have much different perspectives of mediocrity ranging from, "Okay, I need to stay alive today or else I will be mediocre" to "okay, I've gotta create a 10-thousand dollar idea today, and anything less is mediocre." By your definition, are you saying that anyone who has anxiety-depression is mediocre by biological makeup? Mediocrity is not a fixed concept and you have as much of a right to define it as anyone else does. That was my point. I'm not trying to make excuses for my own life because I fall above your definition of mediocrity. But, I'm just simply exclaiming that its subjective.

[–]good_guy_submitter8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'm not going to get sucked into this debate over fringe people who are biologically stuck in depression and can't be fixed. What I said stands.

If you wake up excited and love life, you are above mediocrity. That can be said whether you're a beach bum who lives in his van and surfs everyday, or a rich and famous person. It's all relative as you said.

[–]_noumena10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy

While I agree there is still a minimum standard for mediocrity that few will question. Most people aren't going to argue that smoking weed or dope all day and whacking off into a bag whilst simultaneously failing to pursue real relationships or improve ones self is somehow being less than a mediocre shell of what one is capable of.

[–]ir2phat6 points7 points  (7 children) | Copy

Hardly a subjective concept. Evolution and social darwinism weed out mediocrity.

The survival of the any species depends on ambition; humans are hard wired to derive happiness from success.

[–]WittyDisplayName-3 points-2 points  (6 children) | Copy

Social Darwinism? Are you serious?

[–]ir2phat5 points6 points  (5 children) | Copy

Yes.

I think its safe to say an inherent desire to improve one's self is necessary for evolution to work. It is important for survival. I also think that societies evolve over time, and a necessary condition of society improving is that the individuals within said society compete to improve in an analogous way.

Just like any species, the core goal of mankind is to safely thrive. If your DNA was such that you would be happy laying around, doing nothing, we would not be doing very well.

Thus the combination of evolution and the workings of social darwinism lead to a fairly universal concept of success.

[–]HierEncore2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy

Improvement, is also, a relative term.

Do you consider life today an improvement over life in the 1990s? Technological and medical afvancements have improved exponentially yet quality of life has decreased for most people during that same time. Families have less time together. Fatherless households have increased along with cost of life. You pay a lot more and get a lot less. Cell phones and 4G has taken away our private/free time fron enployers and most people are too scared to take any vacations out of fear of being replaced in todays unionless companies. 2 part time jobs... No time to actually live life. Is this improvement to you?

[–]ir2phat0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

You're speaking of the economic recession in the United States. Not sure what that has to do with darwinism. Why don't you cherry-pick a different decade/country for me. Not to mention half of your assertions likely originated from your anus.

A long time ago, wild animals were a threat to every human on earth. Winter used to be a deadly ordeal for some. Ever hear of dysentery? Mumps, measles, tetanus, plague? Large-scale wars used to be a frequent occurrence. Countries would draft citizens to kill and die, whether they wanted to or not. If I am wrong, why do we have enough food and infrastructure to support a population of 7 billion? Why doesn't everybody just have two children, and smoke weed in the forest, living off the land?

[–]HierEncore4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

And an even longer time ago humans used to kill each other for mates and regularly sacrificed kids go preserve resources. What's your point?

We grow more thsn enough food for everyone and have enough land for everyone to live comfortably. There are no more excuses to keep people slaving away for corporate goals and have no time to live life or raise healthy kids.

edit: I'm not referring to any country or recession specifically. These problems are global.

[–]ir2phat0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

My point is you asked me if I thought that was improvement.

Yes, corporate greed and government corruption are present-day issues. No, these issues are no where near as pressing as issues in past time periods.

What is YOUR point? Who exactly are you talking about here, who is held down by corporations- lower class first world countries? Miniscule-wage factory workers in developing countries?

Do you really think these people are worse off than the lower classes of previous generations?

[–]kellykebab4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

The Red Pill is about promoting achievement and success, not "contentment," which can certainly include apathy. Pride and confidence are the mental goals, not just peace of mind.

[–]Slut_Slayer90002 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

The key word there is addiction. If you have to use weed, another drug or activity just to function normally or to do something then you have a problem.

[–]Stythe2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I hate that. It really is an issue with a lot of people though. I had a buddy try and debate that with me and I was getting tired of it so I looked at my other friend who was doing something else and said "Dude, he's saying weed isn't a drug, it's a plant." My friend laughed and said, "Oh, I got this. Is cocain a drug?" My buddy responds "Yea but-" and my friend cuts him off and goes "DEBATE OVER!" We had a good laugh.

The point stands though, I see so many of my friends out partying or doing drugs whenever they do anything and I realize that those drugs have become the motivating force keeping them going. Yes, they have fun and socialize and are good company when I see them, but the amount they do and how often they do it shows me they're definitely relying on those drugs more than they should be.

[–]GunsGermsAndSteel3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Cocaine is also plant-derived. So is heroin. So is ricin, for that matter.

[–]SmilingWatermelon27 points28 points  (9 children) | Copy

I smoke weed and I work hard...but im taking april off cause im certain im a little addicted. It starts off with weed then ended with poppers and blunts. I may get shit done but I refuse to be a slave to any substance.

[–]timdo19014 points15 points  (7 children) | Copy

April is the worst month to take off. 4/20 4/20 4/20

[–]SmilingWatermelon19 points20 points  (1 child) | Copy

Adds a little extra challenge ;)

[–]JimGusa-5 points-4 points  (4 children) | Copy

A good idea could be to take a t-break until 4/20. That way you can clear your mind for a few weeks and get super baked on 4/20.

[–]SmilingWatermelon31 points32 points  (2 children) | Copy

Nah. Sadly I've already started. Told myself at least 30 days. If I cant be a man of my word to myself how can I expect anyone to respect what I say?

[–]slappinbass8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

And better yet; you won't respect your own boundaries if you make an exception here. Honestly, there may not be a better time to forge fortitude than dropping it and sticking to that than over 4/20. If you can hold strong despite that, you've got more in you than you know. Use that to power you down the road.

[–]Hltchens4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Plus 4/20 is retarded anyway. Me and my friends would purposely not smoke that day.

[–]pezzaperry1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

He's just told himself he will take a month off. Don't change your goals halfway through, gotta commit to them.

[–]Newreddawn31 points32 points  (4 children) | Copy

It still needs to be said. The "one size fits all solutions" snake oil that people peddle here pisses me off sometimes. There are more ways to fulfill your masculine destiny than to pretend you're a buddhist monk who slays pussy on the weekends. Tired of the superiority complex.

I have a great career that I sink a ton of time into. I go out with my friends every weekend. I work out. I play a contact sport. My girlfriend is a little hottie who loves to smoke me out before we have sex and fall asleep together. I wouldn't change a thing.

How about you actually master a substance instead of letting it rule you with fear. The hopelessly addicted and the abstinent are far more similar than they realize, if your abstinence is your protection against addiction. Moderation is true mastery of your addiction.

Sometimes I come to this sub and it feels like a fucking AA meeting.

[–]daYellowKid14 points15 points  (0 children) | Copy

The way you described yourself.. OP wasn't talking about you I think.

[–]hahayeahthatscool1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

dont you know when a true rp man isn't working on his career he's staring at his wall with perfect posture? lol what a waste of time, why wouldn't i be enjoying the few precious hours of freetime I will have on this planet. i feel bad for some of these guys, a blunt (AKA THE DEVIL'S LETTUCE) is the perfect way to relax after work

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy

That's good for you. For me it's any everyday thing after work so that I don't feel depressed. You know what that is? Weakness. And I will get rid of it.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

OP was referring to those who know deep down they're distracting themselves from things they really want in life. At the end of the day, all that matters is that you mustered the courage to take action and attempt to obtain that which you desire in this life. The post was a 'wake-up' call to those people. Moderate use of pleasantries isn't the issue.

[–]RedditAdminsSuck_8813 points14 points  (36 children) | Copy

Weed is still a really bad idea even for hard workers with self control

[–][deleted] 32 points33 points  (18 children) | Copy

Every pothead I know (I'm 32) is in total denial about it. They sing the praises of pot daily, all the while being completely oblivious to how obnoxious their weed habit makes them, in so many ways.

[–]RedditAdminsSuck_8825 points26 points  (17 children) | Copy

Just look at the people here on TRP any time you say something negative about smoking weed. It sets off a bat signal for pot smokers to come in and hamster up reasons why its actually not so bad and actually a good thing and how any red pilled man should smoke weed.

The weed smokers who are also successful are rare, they are outliers. Most of them are underachievers and the weed is keeping them from reaching their potential.

[–]Hltchens17 points18 points  (5 children) | Copy

You can't really smoke weed and have any good job. People who say they do and make X amount of money are usually IT guys who aren't going anywhere but IT, or cubicle monkeys that can't go anywhere else. They've hit their plateau, so they smoke weed instead of pursuing a higher degree to advance their situation. Can't tell you how much money I've blown on weed in the 8 years I smoked (quit three months ago on 4/17). It's probably close to $8,000. Maybe more. Maybe even like $10,000. $10k that could've gone towards paying off my student loans, but instead was wasted on helping me forget about my failed relationships, which every one failed because of weed and what it did to my psyche.

I remember my low point like it was yesterday. My LTR was with me in my dorm and I just pulled out some coke and lined it up and did a line right in front of her. Now, I never had a problem with coke, ever. It was like a once every 8 months thing where I'd get a gram and go Wild for a day/night. I remember feeling like I didn't need her to feel God because of the weed and coke. And truth is I don't need her to feel good, but not because of drugs. I remember one day she saw me in the college lounge and ran up to me for a hug and a kiss like she hadn't seen me in weeks. I barely hugged her back and barely gave her a peck. I'll never forget how sad she looked. Few weeks later and we broke up. I was devastated, but I wouldn't let myself really feel the pain by smoking weed. The smoking continued for 5 more years to avoid the pain. And that's all it did, was avoid it. I never dealt with the pain, I was never with my pain, I just put it off. Until it was too late to even do anything about it.

Now I'm here. I've been sober for nearly 3 months, I have clean piss (it took me 40 days because of how much I'd smoked) and I'll be going in the US Navy shortly to be an AECF. I put it off far too long. I never got my hands dirty when I should have, and as a result I'll be going in to boot and A-School with kids 6 years younger than me, and therefore 6 years ahead of me. I've forgiven myself for using weed to put my life on hold, because if I didn't I'd still be stuck in that rut it put me in. But rest assured I won't be smoking for a long long time. And not anywhere it's illegal that's for sure. I know I'll eventually have time to relax and smoke to my hearts desire, but not until after I've worked my way into a well established life with the Navy and whatever options I have afterwords. For at least another 10 years, or 20 if I make a career out of the navy, I'll be sober. I can't risk my future just to have fun. No longer can I trade good times now for great times later, that I've well earned.

Many people know where I'm coming from. One time I was talking to my brothers roommate, in his apt where we'd all smoke together and have great times bullshitting and watching funny movies. There was a sobering moment for me and him when my brother left the room. I asked him if he'd always planned to smoke into his 30s (he was 33 at the time). He said it's fun, but said he couldn't tell me how many great jobs he had to turn down due to a drug test. That hit me hard because I didn't want to be in that situation. I didn't want to be forced into a position where I needed to turn down a good job because I wanted to get high. And he's not alone in this. So much wasted talent out there because people aren't willing to sacrifice their addiction to move forward.

[–]Soulreality6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy

Hey man, don't look at it as being "6 years behind". The past is not gonna matter once you're in the Navy. People from all walks of life join, and all anyone cares about is what you put into once you're already in. Youll be surprised how many people are your age in boot camp and A-school. I had a guy who was 37 in my boot camp division, and one of my best buddies in A-school was 26. It's not that rare.

[–]Hltchens0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

What's your rate? You still in? If so where're you stationed/deployed?

[–]Soulreality1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah I'm still in I messaged you

[–]rm_-rf_slash2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

That's a few bad generalizations. I'm a regular (not daily but almost) smoker who is in IT and quite successful. If you characterized me as someone who wasn't going anywhere, I don't know anyone who knows me that would agree with that characterization. Also equating a degree with success is somewhat of a pitfall; myself and many of the guys I work with don't have a single degree, let alone a higher on or even really want one in the first place. My point is that everyone is different and people from all kinds of situations will fit your description.

Not gonna go into too much detail but I'm a software engineer in motorsports, frequently trackside but always for trackside crews, make right around $200k, and drive a Tesla while keeping a few plates around. Logically the next question might be "does that fulfill you?" to which I would answer..."sometimes". The work, absolutely. I love it. As far as personal life, it's all about perspective. On occasion I'll fail myself due to my own laziness but life can't always be "go go go". When I step back from the bigger picture, my opinion is that the best parts of life happen at particular, key times, and being able to predict when those are and be clear headed for them is more important than just decrying all regular smoking as bad.

To wrap up this rambling, in response to your last paragraph...I do agree completely. I've been in VERY similar situations and it sucks but you gotta do exactly what you did: let those impressions dig deep under your skin as reminders of what shit is like when you can't keep it together.

Either way, congratulations on lifting yourself out of the shit and finding the fulfillment you were looking for. Hope it all pans out the best for you brother.

[–]Hltchens0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Not saying you can't make money and smoke, but you'll never have a job that requires drug testing, and you'll never be able to get a secret/TS clearence. You might not care about that, which is fine, but I do. I want to work for the Dept. of Naval Research. I should be out designing the next rail gun, not sitting around smoking pot and watching life pass me by.

[–]I_VII_VI_VI_VII_I points points [recovered] | Copy

Or it makes them totally neurotic, like my coworker who paces in front of my desk all day long, complains about everything, is angry/happy/angry/happy/angry/happy all day long, and has no idea why.

[–]good_guy_submitter16 points17 points  (4 children) | Copy

Weed is toxic to your health and success. I don't care if it's not as bad as alcohol or cigs, fuck those things too.

People take brain altering drugs because it makes them happy, but it is not real happiness. It is not something that you can be proud of. It does not benefit you beyond the fleeting high you receive while on the drug and it does not last beyond it.

So what if it's a natural plant. Cow shit is natural but you don't eat that. Poison ivy is a natural plant, but fuck that plant.

[–]I_VII_VI_VI_VII_I points points [recovered] | Copy

So true. I recently quit coffee and it's been amazing.

[–]good_guy_submitter3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'm with you there, I quit caffiene a while back. I have much more energy now. I personally love the taste of coffee though so I still drink Swiss water-filtered decaf now and again.

[–]rm_-rf_slash-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy

It may be harmful to your health, but it's also a haven for many people with seriously debilitating illnesses. Now, I'm guessing you didn't mean those people, so I'll give you that. However, it's only a detriment to success as much as you let it be. See my own reply to the parent comment for context. Reminiscent of the "guns don't kill people" argument...well, pot smoking doesn't determine your success, you do. As with guns, the same pitfalls apply here: pot probably does make it easier to succumb to apathy.

I can't really comment on what type of happiness people derive from the enormous variety of drugs out there, but I know for sure many do benefit well beyond their expiry, including things like cannabis, LSD, psilocybin, and ayahuasca. I know the former three of those certainly had lasting impacts on the way I think about things (for the better) that have only cemented to this day, and I no longer consume any other than pot. There are case studies that at a minimum suggest my point and I'm more than happy to find some on request (yes, I'm sure there are others revolving around their negatives, too).

The "natural" thing is only really used a smartass retort to people who refer to pot as a drug, which is one reason it's friggin' annoying to hear. It was never meant to mean "anything that's natural is good for you" and you know that. Compared to synthesized drugs, the natural ones (that are in widespread use, so not including nutmeg, wild berries, etc) are almost always a better choice.

[–]good_guy_submitter-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Oh, I agree with you. However, I think anyone defending the regular use of any drug is bluepilling themselves.

Weed is definitely the most harmless of drugs. But still, I won't be using it. Now that may change if I need it for pain relief or something. I have a friend who lives with chronic pain and it's either weed or vicodin until he finishes physical rehab, he chose weed and is better for it. He plans to stop taking it as well once he no longer needs it. That's my same stance, anyhow. If you take a drug regularly and you aren't medically in need of it, you're abusing it.

I understand social smoking and social drinking. But when you do it alone, and more than a couple times a month, you're an addict.

[–]Returnofthemack32 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

yeah, and the weed smokers that are successful are smoking it a couple times a week tops, on the weekend. When I was in colleg,e id sometimes opt to smoke a bit a few hours before bed if i wasnt going out that night. It was relaxing and i'd be able to get to sleep and enjoy the night. With that said, if you smoke it more than 1-2 times a week it does affect your mental state. Ive noticed im a bit duller from one night of smoking, so meh

[–]bountyhunterdjango5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy

You're confusing smoking weed with being a stoner.

[–]rm_-rf_slash0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I completely agree with this sentiment.

[–]DeadShot9124 points25 points  (2 children) | Copy

Took me a long time to realize this. Smoked on and off for about 7 years and when I did smoke it was pretty heavy. Whenever I would be smoking I was too high to be around my family and that made me depressed which made me smoke more to cope. Then when I would quit it would fuck up my dopamine levels so I would end up depressed which caused me to eventually smoke again. It was a vicious cycle.

Moderation is great, but any substance that is mind-altering (alcohol, weed, LSD, etc.) is NOT GOOD for you. I hate when people try to rationalize and defend it. If you can smoke/drink and still live a healthy fulfilling life, great for you. The majority of us need to avoid that shit if we want to be successful.

[–]_noumena6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

While I agree with you overall, mind altering substances have helped people I know identify barriers and unsavory behavior structures and eliminate them whereas its debatable they would have otherwise. I think the problem lies with any kind of habitual use that exists outside the paradigm of objective based, i.e. recreational, unless recreational use is extremely extremely rare. (like once a year\month say... for your birthday or something) Anything more generally does serve as a detriment for most people.

[–]rm_-rf_slash0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Agreed, and I appreciate you acknowledging that there are some out there who can do both with good results. That's important, 'cause if people generally don't acknowledge that, then we end up with prohibition and suddenly those bad things become way more appealing (due to being illegal) to the wrong kind of people (young, poor).

[–]JimGusa1 point2 points  (13 children) | Copy

How so? I'd equate what you're saying to "beer is still a really bad idea even for hard workers with self control."

If you are hard working and have good self control, then what's wrong with some beer on the weekends? Or after a hard day of lawnwork? Or after a long 3 hour class?

The key to dopamine sources like alch or weed is doing them in spaced out intervals and at times that it would be appropriate to have a dopamine reward (i.e. after you finish your exam paper and doing your chores).

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

The key to dopamine sources like alch or weed is doing them in spaced out intervals and at times that it would be appropriate to have a dopamine reward

This is correct.

Other people on here are talking about "self control" in a way that's too abstract.

What does self control actually mean? Only drinking X times per week? Smoking weed as long as your work performance is up to par? These type of rules always leave you confused. Maybe your work performance is fine, but weed is negatively impacting you in other ways. Or maybe you only drink once a month, but when you do you blackout and cause massive problems for yourself.

First, let's accept that dopamine spikes are part of life. Alcohol and weed may not be your cup of tea, but sugar also triggers dopamine. So does sex and pizza and Netflix marathons. There are a lot of ways to get a buzz.

To effectively manage these buzzes, you need to make sure you're doing them with the correct intentions. THAT is the key.

For instance, let's say you smoke weed immediately after you get off work each day. It doesn't matter if it was a good or bad day, you just immediately get high. This means your intention regarding weed is solely to feel pleasure. Pleasure is addictive, so if you smoke in this manner your habit is going to increase. In time you'll be smoking before bed, and then before work (but only "sometimes".)

The intention of "getting as high as possible as much as possible" doesn't work. It leads to destruction.

The better course of action is to find good intentions for your dopamine spikes. For instance, if you drink socially (which I do), then you aren't in it solely for the pleasure. Drinking is also a means to connect with other people and enjoy friendships. If you like going out to bars, it's a way to explore the town or city you live in, and have some recreation on Friday night. These are all healthy and life-affirming practices (this is why alcohol is legal...)

Thus we can say, "Drinking socially on Friday nights" is a good intention. It works, and doesn't cause damage to your life. What's great about finding balanced intentions is they turn into win-wins. You still get to enjoy alcohol and have all the fun memories that come from getting drunk with your buddies, but you do so in a responsible manner that doesn't harm your life.

Get clear about the intentions behind your actions, and then enjoy life. TRP isn't about being a prude.

[–]dpape396 points7 points  (4 children) | Copy

while neither beer nor weed will kill you they're still not exactly healthy. i don't doubt there are negative side effects resulting from sustained long term use.

that aside, not everybody has enough self control to not slip into an addiction.

i do agree that giving yourself a dopamine reward after getting shit done is a good idea, but you need some self control and i haven't found a viable reward that doesn't fuck your mind and/or body in some way. porn, weed and alcohol will all come back to bite you in the ass and i'm not having fun in video games unless it's competitive multiplayer and even then i'll often feel worse than before if i lost, so i quit that shit altogether. if anybody got some suggestions for 'healthy' instant gratification id be happy to hear em

[–]Piediver-2 points-1 points  (3 children) | Copy

beer will kill you so will weed from lung cancer...

[–]bonerpotpie6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy

There are zero sources for the second claim.

[–]Piediver0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

isin't smoke bad for your lungs?

[–]bonerpotpie3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Any inhaled substance could be a possible carcinogen, however, there are no reported cases of lung cancer secondary to smoking marijuana.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy

I'm not a regular poster of theredpill, but I do consider myself red pilled... I'm sorta laughing at these posts cuz it sounds like some of these people are overboard on the Spartan "NO ADDICTIONS, NO FUN" attitude. Honestly, this attitude of "deprive yourself of all external sources of happiness" would fit in just as well on an extremist muslim forum.

My point is, no one is going to argue that smoking weed or getting drunk every day is good for you (except for stoners & alcholics). But depriving yourself of all vice, always, is just as bad. Why do you think terrorists & shit are so extreme that they are willing to blow themselves up? It's cuz they aren't allowed to drink or even smoke a cigarette. They have no way to relax, ever.

The cliche'd phrase - everything in moderation. If you never have a few beers with friends or play a video game, then you'll just end up addicted to something else like going to the gym, and you'll be a one-dimensional weirdo no matter what. People just need to chill the fuck out. If you think you have a masturbation problem, then it's good to try & improve yourself... But to say "All masturbation, drugs, video games are wrong & you're worthless if you ever indulge in them" is just the other side of the same coin.

[–]rm_-rf_slash1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

My thinking is mostly parallel with yours. I've already read a few "X/Y/Z IS BAD FOR YOU, PERIOD" with little to no exceptions, which is disappointing to say the least. Really, the title had it right: addiction is a violation of frame, not consumption, "period".

[–]aanarchist0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

there's a lot of taking things personally among betas.

[–]jeddzus68 points69 points  (10 children) | Copy

There's so much truth to this. So many weekends I'll go out, the night doesn't pan out too well, and me and my buddy will be like "meh might as well leave and smoke a joint." Or we'll just smoke all day on a weekend and do nothing. I think the major problems are it takes away from my ability to hold conversations with people. I'm always used to talking to dopey stoners about stoner shit, and I'm not going and experiencing shit in life that I can bring up in conversation with people. Or even if I do go and do shit, I'm stoned so often I can barely even remember it. All these years I've just been smoking when I get home from work to "relax," but I'm slowly realizing it doesn't help me socialize, make friends, progress in any way. It's just like you said, it's an easy pleasure, it's like running through the finish line tape without running the marathon.. What's the point? If you didn't do the whole run, all you're doing is ripping tape, there's no meaning behind it. I'm a recent subscriber to TRP, and this is the second post that's reaffirmed my recent feelings that weed is one of my main problems. Thanks OP for motivation!

[–]I_VII_VI_VI_VII_I points points [recovered] | Copy

It caused a lot of anxiety in me because I became self-conscious about how stoned/stupid I seemed to others. I wasted a lot of years of my life smoking every night with losers. Drifted halfway into the stoner crowd after high school, which is not a cool place to be. You either go all in stoner or not at all. Smoking with stoners every day and still trying to maintain your old, normal life with normal people is not going to work. I quit a long time ago and it was definitely the right decision. All the shit they tell you about it in school - about it being a gateway, sending you down the wrong path - it all seems ridiculous at the time, but it's all completely true.

[–]ei8hts6 points7 points  (7 children) | Copy

Gateways work two directions; pot can be a tool to help people come back from other deleterious substance use. It should be legalized and regulated.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy

I agree that it should be legalized. Why should it be regulated?

[–]TurboApe2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy

In the sense that every product is regulated for consumer protection. Otherwise companies can deceive customers.

[–][deleted] -5 points-4 points  (4 children) | Copy

So? Then they fail to remain companies. No successful companies are successful in deceiving their customers.

[–]TurboApe-1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy

No. We do not have a 100% free market where things work this way. There are myriad reasons why it doesn't work. Upton Sinclair's The Jungle is a good starting place to understand this.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'm pretty aware that we don't participate in a free market economy. Give me some reasons that we need the government to oversee production.

[–]Slut_Slayer9000-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

See I'm the exact opposite the only time I do smoke is in a social situation with other people. I rarely if ever smoke alone. But do I smoke or have to smoke before or during EVERY social situation I'm in? No. The key is moderation and understanding your limits. My favorite part about weed is smoking with other people having that experience with others, its great imo. But I'm also in a great situation with a career/job that doesn't drug test (father's business I get to take over) so I don't have to worry about that shit. But I easily go weeks, sometimes months without smoking (and that hiatus isn't do to not being able to get it) I always have plenty, I just don't have the desire to smoke by myself.

[–]thebearsage41 points42 points  (3 children) | Copy

There a lot of truth to this. Ive really focused on cutting these poisonous habits out of my life and its amazing how much more free and confident i feel.

[–]ilikemychickenfried[🍰] 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

Hell yeah! Makes you feel like a king

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (1 child) | Copy

It's funny. Everyone I know who smokes pot daily is convinced it is what saves them from the dreads of every day life. Yet not one of them seems authentically happy or has a life I'd want on my worst day.

[–]LostLittleBoi0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I use it to sleep every night... not great but I'd say it's made me more happy than when I was getting 4-5 hours of sleep every night and had hours to spin my thoughts out of control. Solid 6-8 hours Everyday now. It's not perfect, but it's better than booze or ambien.

[–]morallycorruptgirl15 points16 points  (2 children) | Copy

Yes you are very correct. I've been through many addictions, all the way to heroin. Addiction taught me a lot of life lessons, this being the final takeaway. You are only human, & you will screw up. Don't loath, don't beat yourself up, just get on with life & the rest will fall into place.

[–]stretnuh5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

How did you overcome them if you don't mind me asking?

[–]morallycorruptgirl5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

I couldn't financially support my habit & myself. Logically speaking, I had to quit or be homeless. I Got turned down by a dozen out patient clinics, they were full. I guess I just went full circle & the addictions had to go with or without "help". I bought suboxone strips off the street (suboxone is what would have been prescribed at a clinic) & tapered myself off. I was probably better off helping myself then a pencil neck doctor invading my privacy.

[–]AaronKClark17 points18 points  (10 children) | Copy

Is no-fap a thing in the RP community?

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy

I don't fully no-fap, but nowadays I fap only as occasional "maintenance" rather than as a form of entertainment. Also if you must fap, use your imagination instead of watching porn. I've experimented with watching or not watching porn for a week - I can definitely say that when I don't watch porn, I will be way more aggressive fucking my gf (in a good way, she loves it), and have an easier time getting it up / keeping it up.

[–]_noumena17 points18 points  (3 children) | Copy

If it prevents you from doing shit you would otherwise do, sure. Masturbation in excess WILL kill your drive to seduce real women.

[–]looc221 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

It might, depending on your sex drive. Once every few days won't hurt you though.

[–]Gearski2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

When he says in excess I think he means 4-5 times daily, like I was. It definitely kills your drive to go after girls and the things you want in general.

[–]imsorted1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I've been testing it out over the passed few months. Once a week, as a release is perfect I find. Usually a Sunday night if there hasn't been any sex. With or without porn, doesn't matter. Woke up today after a great nights sleep, fresh headed and nailed the gym. I find there was nothing to gain after about a week

[–]Mantas_Confid13 points14 points  (1 child) | Copy

Sure it is. Some do controlled fapping, some quit forever.

[–][deleted] 20 points21 points  (0 children) | Copy

I can tell you one thing. Going to the gym after a couple days of fapping vs. going to the gym after 5 days of not fapping is night and day. Weak shell of a man attempting some lifting vs. absolute monster, shot out of a cannon mentality.

[–]1Tommy_40721 points22 points  (1 child) | Copy

Not really. It's more no porn, and carefully controlled fapping.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Not even really no porn, just no bullshitting yourself. Just like every other part of TRP. Personally I'd much rather guys just watched porn and jerked off than gave fatties the validation of getting fucked, but then I've never actually been on a long enough dry spell to fuck a fatty.

[–]Rudeyyyy2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yes and I can say that confidently. I'm on day 35, Instead of sitting home playing video games and waxing my carrot I'm going to the gym, reading more (books recommended to me by fellow RP users) and I just feel better. I'm 5'4 and my posture is a lot more straight, my confidence is a lot higher, especially towards women. I look people in the eye now, don't give in to people's shit, grades have improved, and just feel better about myself overrall.

Yes it's a real thing. Works different for other people but it is a real thing and I'm benefiting from it greatly.

[–]1empatheticapathetic12 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy

An addiction most of here would probably have is the demon know as the smartphone with an Internet connection and to a lesser extent, Reddit.

The motivation you can find on TRP and similar places is pretty powerful, such as a post like this, or a post about how a man was unfortunately played by the bluepill system and how that won't happen to you because you now know better. Acquiring that knowledge, new perspectives, is the most addictive thing in my life. Motivation is rekindling that hope in your mind that you can do whatever if you keep at it. And it's great, I feel like it's all positives because this place is all about exposing truths and getting ahead in life.

Especially when the rest of the day is full of normal basic living with good habits (healthy living, low reward behaviour etc). Learning something new about life from someone else's experiences and cliff notes is addictive.

[–]TALzFGxawb22 points23 points  (0 children) | Copy

thing to remember: the drug isn't the problem. you're the problem.

do you like to smoke weed when you go out dancing? go for it. enjoy some hedonism.

did you tell yourself you were going to hit the gym or work on a painting, and now you're out dancing and smoking weed instead? you're a useless slug, and you'll never have a satisfying life as long as you keep doing that

do not break the promises you make to yourself. push yourself, but be realistic with the promises you make to yourself, and then do not waver

[–]alphabeta4924 points25 points  (4 children) | Copy

I'm an addictions counselor. There's three types of people.

  • Non-addicted (I enjoy alcohol, but I can and sometimes do go days, weeks, even months without it)

  • Functional addicts (I say I could stop, but lord knows that would be tough... but hey, I still go to work and have friends)

  • Dysfunctional addicts (I'm starting to see bad things happen in my social, legal, financial, or romantic spheres, due to my habits)

Many, MANY people are in the second group and don't know it. And it doesn't have to be alcohol or drugs. It could be porn. It could be shopping. It could be female validation. Hell, it could even be lifting (there are positive and negative addictions).

OP is right. Breaking addiction is the first step you need to take to become awesome.

[–]Everybodypoopsalot2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

What's your advice for the second group?

Also, it's hard for some to have any real perspective on it because, assuming they're self medicating, by most objective measures, alternative drugs (ssris, benzos, etc) are worse than using cannabis, thoughts?

[–]alphabeta490 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The second group is hard to get a hold of, simply because there's no "problem" forcing them to change. There's no acute pain like the third group.

If you're trying to justify cannabis, you have an argument. Cannabis, especially the medicinal properties, can be hugely helpful to several medical conditions. But there's also an argument that weed is a gateway drug. There's lots of social, moral, and personality influences that can also determine that; it's not a hard rule. But I've seen too many people start with weed, but eventually that doesn't satisfy like it used to, so they move on to harder substances.

Wouldn't it be better just to eliminate all vices, to not be dependent on anything?

[–]rm_-rf_slash0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

You framed it as though the second thing was inherently negative but I'm not sure that's the case, for a few reasons. Mainly, the definition of addiction is fairly nebulus (three dictionaries all have slight but different definitions of which the differences could be considered significant) and you yourself even admitted that an addiction can be good, but what does that mean if an addiction is good? Does that simply mean it has good AND bad consequences, or just good ones (e.g. weight lifting keeps you in shape but can also lead to juicing, etc.)? I'm curious how you reconcile or weigh the different good and bad consequences against each other to determine whether a possible addiction diagnosis is detrimental or even worth treating?

To be clear, I'm being serious. It's good to have professionals to query about this stuff.

[–]alphabeta491 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

There's always pros and cons to everything, even illicit drug use. The user has to ask himself if it's a net gain or a net loss, and if it's a net gain, at what price.

Here's a good working set of definitions:

  • Is your habit causing problems for you legally? Are you at risk of, or have you been arrested for, being drunk in public or driving under the influence? Disorderly conduct because you were wasted or high? Then you have an addiction.

  • Is your habit causing problems for you financially? Are you spending more than you can afford on your habit? Are you able to survive but are not meeting long-term goals because the desire to use is stronger in the moment? Then you have an addiction.

  • Is your habit causing problems for you socially? Are any friends distancing themselves from you? Are any family members saying anything derogatory, even while joking, about your habit? Do you feel judged? Then you have an addiction.

  • Is your habit causing problems for you professionally? Are you distracted, disinterested, or underperforming at work? Have you missed any raises or promotions because you're "that guy"? Do you feel united against the boss with other coworkers who use? Have you gotten written up or talked to because of your use or issues stemming from your use (like anger)? Then you have an addiction.

  • Is your habit causing problems for you personally? Are you unable to feel normal without your habit? Have you been setting but consistently missing goals? Do you feel unproductive? Are you depressed when you compare yourself to more functional and sober people? Then you have an addiction.

The only reason addictions are bad is because they take away your control and cause harm to yourself and others. No harm? No problem. But don't try to tell me that any benefit derived from your addiction is worth whatever pain you answered "yes" to in the list above. "I know I shouldn't be raging at my gf, but I need to get bigger for the fitness comp coming up!" Ok dude, if you're alright with that pain, then by all means, continue.

That's why it's virtually impossible to treat someone who doesn't think they have a problem. You need to admit there's a problem. Then I can help you fix it.

PS The "good" addictions aren't usually called addictions. For example, one of my childhood friends is an incredibly hard worker. She graduated high school with highest honors, completed her BA in 3.5 years (instead of taking the standard 4 years), and got her teaching credential, maintained an excellent social life throughout, all while sustaining a brain injury from a car accident in 12th grade. That sort of dedication to excellence and achievement I call an addiction, but I fail to find a downside.

[–]3rdLion9 points10 points  (2 children) | Copy

I don't know where the fuck I'm going to start, but thanks for the push.

[–]_noumena2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

One foot forward brother. First step is wanting to.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

Don't subract from your life. Instead take on another pursuit that will eventually require you to drop a habit you want to get rid of. By doing this you will create a domino effect that is much much more effective and easier than attempting to purely abstain...

[–]guataballin3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

This was inspiring. I've been feeling down about me just working and living but accomplishing nothing (like re enrolling into college) but this just sparked my dwindling flame yet again

[–]johnnyfirs2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Fuck you cigarettes, I'm coming for you.

[–]LostLittleBoi2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

If you really can't go get a $200 vape, nice middle ground between smelling like shit and getting to smoke. Still an addiction, which is weak sauce, but less harmful and less addictive feeling than cigs. Worked for me, and frankly I'm pretty ok with this addiction now that it doesn't make me cough/stank/become cancer... it's the anime and videogames that need to gtfo my life.

[–]theONE8436637 points8 points  (3 children) | Copy

Shit man I'm addicted to gym. How do I stop? I feel like I'm ruining my life with gains. Like it's never enough. Sometimes I get scared you know like how much is enough? What will I do to keep gaining? Take vitamin S? Start incorporating needle presses into my routine? I can't even think bro.

[–]Fubarro2050 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

The key to true happiness is balance. You have to have the valleys, the rock bottoms, the plateaus in order to appreciate it when you're up.

[–]gg_s0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The key to true happiness is order. You can be orderly from the start, or you can be a massive fuck up and level off over time. It is chick logic to think the latter is a richer experience than the former.

[–]1Tommy_407-2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy

You aren't doing anything unhealthy with being a gym addict unless it's having a dysfunctional effect on your work performance or your ability to support yourself.

Ofcourse there are going to be financial and social sacrifices for a true gym addict. Steroids are an option for you depending on your age (over 25) and if you're plateauing. You sound like a serious lifter so you are one of the few that could cycle and keep your gains over time, and life an otherwise healthy lifestyle.

[–]Werman203 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy

How you guys keep from having a wank? I can go about two weeks then I get all fucked up and cave. I sub to nofap but I just don't see 90 days happening lol

[–]LostLittleBoi1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

There's no reason to go more than two weeks without jerking off unless you have a serious problem.

[–]msmtheory2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

What kind of "deeper rooted issues" are you referring to? You know when you gain a perspective that helps you break a bad habit that you know you need to rid yourself of (subconsciously or otherwise), the amazing sense of accomplishment you feel often makes you feel the need to share it with others...because that just might be the motivation/advice they need to better themselves.

There's still a ton of bad habits I need to break personally but reading shit like this gives me that little kick I need sometimes.

[–]1jb_trp2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

There's a man inside of you that's been beaten down, sedated, and forgotten. But he's still here. You are still here. Let that count for something. Show the world what you're really capable of.

Thanks, friend. I needed to hear this today.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Drugs are a distraction from your problems, they are not a cure.

[–]nonsense45616 points17 points  (16 children) | Copy

What makes an 'unearned' drip of dopamine? "Time you enjoy wasting, is not wasted". Success can be measured in many different ways, your idea of success differs from other peoples idea of success. I feel like this type of preaching stems from some deeper rooted issues.

[–]Modredpillschool21 points22 points  (10 children) | Copy

I think the theory goes like this:

If the shortcut leads you to a quick reward, it will dissuade you from putting in the work for the bigger rewards.

The question is whether the bigger rewards are actually more pleasurable. In the world of addiction, I think the biggest problem is that the short-term quick rewards start to be unsustainable but it still de-motivates you from achieving larger goals, and thus you get into the slump of addiction: You want to quit but you can't.

[–]aigamithite13 points14 points  (7 children) | Copy

Why lift when you can masturbate? Why read when you can play games? Why talk to that girl when you are drunk asf?

Since we are all here, our brain is telling us that the bigger rewards have to be more pleasurable, be it having sex, improving our lives through different avenues (lifting, reading, meditation, making money, having a strong purpose. The problem is, all the instant gratification activities tend to numb the brain. I can strongly attest to that because I have been between these two extremes. Dopamine is a hell of a chemical, but it's not the one that brings true happiness. Just desires that can't be quenched. Other chemicals like serotonin and GABA are the ones responsible for long term happiness and they are only released when you pursue things of value to YOU.

This is a problem for our pornified society. Look around you; ads for more games, more food, borderline nudity in everything and so on. What does this lead us to? The blue pill mentality. TRP wouldn't exist if society hadn't deteriorated to this point. I don't think men 50 years ago had to deal with hypergamy to such extent, and that is not only because society currently promotes it, but because it has created an environment that promotes weak men that can sate their desires through artificial means. Have a participation trophy, have a double cheese to feel good, jerk your dick to a woman that is out of your league and that you would probably never see naked in the real world.

The brain is a great tool but it's also naive in the sense that our impulses and desires are not different than that of our primordial ancestors. The difference is our ancestors tended to fight while we flee. The way out is to fast from all that junk that does more harm than good, and then build yourself from the debris the way you truly want to be. Your other half is already here if you look within, just waiting to be discovered.

[–]volvofixplz0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy

why cant you masturbate to girls that are out of your league or will never see/meat in real life ? thats what fantasy is about

whats wrong with that ? serious question

[–]LostLittleBoi1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

It'd be better to spend your time getting into their league instead of just pretending you are for a few minutes, no?

[–]volvofixplz0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

yeah makes sense. I am just a newbie here. Thanks

[–]LostLittleBoi0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Me too buddy, and there's nothing wrong with jerking off to hot women (goal women), but since these comments are getting into the philosophical aspect of why do anything when the entertainment and dopamine creators are so advanced (porn, vr, games, etc.) Then my previous comment is pretty much what you gotta tell yourself (myself). Oh you're in a top ten guild in wow? Who gives a fuck, even if you only made it into a top 100 company, not even top ten, that's much more impressive and meaningful than some artificial bullshit. Good luck to me and you brother

[–]aigamithite0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Absolutely nothing wrong with that my friend. That's what I was doing myself until I got a computer when I turned 18. The problem is when it gets out of hand, like it got for me. Others regulate it much better. I just used it as my main stress reliever because of high stress levels (I was extremely competitive academically when I was younger) and I ended up getting hang up on it. Same with internet games, but there I was lucky enough to play in internet cafes with other people for most of my formative years, so I didn't end up as addicted.

I'm not preaching NoFap, which, unfortunately is turning into a cult. Years ago this place used to be a close knit community for people that actually had a problem, not a bunch of 16-18 yolds looking for "superpowers" giving the place a bad name. There are people with real problems from porn usage and there are those that are looking for an quick boost for their sex life. I did not make that clear enough on my post; what I wrote is directed to people that, like me, went on the deep end and got addicted.

[–]volvofixplz0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I have seen people sit 12 hours in cafes for WoW raids and stuff and get addicted.. but anyways thanks for the explanation , I am kinda new here so sometimes I don't understand stuff clearly.

[–]aigamithite1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

It's OK bro I didn't do the absolute best job explaining cause I had to to go to work. You can be more or less addicted to anything; what I am preaching for is taking care of your mind in an age where we are bombarded with hyper-stimulating experiences.

Just find what you think is best for you and roll with that. Just make sure it's in-line with you values and long-term goals.

Best of luck!

[–]_noumena1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Or worse you've rewired yourself to the point where you don't even want to anymore because you're getting everything your brain "needs" artificially. Downward spiral right there...

[–]TheYambag4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

What makes an 'unearned' drip of dopamine?

It's unearned if you don't have to do any work to get it. Masturbation and drugs require no work. They are easy.

"Time you enjoy wasting, is not wasted".

Everything is fine in moderation. No one is saying that smoking some pot here and there is bad (actually, pot is for degenerates, but if you want to engage in it, whatever, I don't have a problem with it, but you should be aware that getting drunk and high are lower class activities). The real problem is when you start doing it every single week or worse, every single day. If you are addicted to drugs, it's probably covering up something else, and that something else is what you should be focused on fixing. Basically, drugs and alcohol (when used more than once a week) are probably leading you to live a less fulfilled life. Motivation is a strength that must be exercised, and drugs are the same as junk food in that respect.

We all agree that working out is good. Working out your mind is just as important as working out your body.

[–]Returnofthemack34 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

'getting high and drunk are lower class activities'...lol what? You do realize that the wealthiest communities on earth are rife with alcohol and drug abuse. I know high earning lawyers and people in finance that snort coke, drink heavily, and smoke a bit of pot every single weekend.

While I agree that unrestricted drug use is a problem, do not make some bullshti classist distinction here. This is an issue that affects people at all levels of status. There are thousands of 'upper class' bars/clubs , where no one is frowning on drinking and drug usage, coke and mdma included. If this was mostly a problem of class, it'd be far less insidious and destructive. The problem is it's widely accepted everywhere on some level

[–]LostLittleBoi0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Wish I could upvote you twice. Definitely not a class thing at all. Maybe it seems that way because wealthier people don't let their lives fall apart due to drugs because they can just use money to pick up the slack. I'm from a very rich area, and my first coke dealer was literally a CEO worth at least a cool 10 million who wanted to make sure his kids and their friends bought the good shit instead of cow medication or baking soda (interesting guy, solid role model honestly).

[–]xprimez0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

think of it like masturbating. Instead of going out and 'earning' an orgasm or a woman, you just stay home and beat your dick to the infinite plethora of naked women and fetish crap thats on the internet. You don't have to go outside and talk to anyone, you don't have to put anytime in with a woman, you don't have to go through rejection, all you have to do is click a couple buttons type of a few words and there it is, free pussy to your hearts content.

[–]yumyumgivemesome1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I love posts like this. I really need that kick in the ass sometimes, especially right after the weekend.

[–]yinyang401 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

A lot of people missing the point. That was an awesome post, preach!

[–]spinalmemes1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

And do it now before everyone else figures out how detrimental this shit is to their life and starts doing it. Its easy to see the positive consequences of these choices when the majority of other dudes are still pieces of shit for the most part.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I mostly agree with you, but the argument is liable to fall into the self-help never-ending feedback loop. Don't forget to enjoy your limited life.

[–]_brenton1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I really needed this today. Thank you for the encouragement!

[–]hermesAndGucci1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah I can safely say I've been addicted to porn and masturbation for a good decade. I was addicted because how good it felt psychologically. I have social phobia so the dopamine rush canceled out my anxiety temporary. Quitting all that my anxiety got a lot worse in the beginning, but after a while now it is gradually going away and I honestly cannot remember a time in the last decade that I've been as happy as I am now :)

[–]legion_emt1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Recently had a life changing event and had many realizations. This is ringing true to me. I have a few bad habits and addictions, but I realized that I am trying to fill holes in myself with things that don't benefit my life. For the first time in my life I have asked for help and oddly it's incredibly relieving. To know you have someone to help hold you accountable until you build correct habits is incredibly powerful motivation! It take me a long time to set my ego aside and actually admit I need help. If you are on the fence with this kind of thing I suggest you at least give it an honest chance.

I know I have a long road ahead of me with many different issues I have, but with help building great habits, fixing some issues with my body, and (the biggest part) getting my mind right. I can see a great path for my life and I'm working on plotting the road map to get there.

[–]GreekLobsta1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

As someone previously addicted to meth heroine and cocaine, and in the recovery community, you wouldn't believe how bad some of these "non dangerous" addictions can be. And that's just in the small sample of the community I know. Addiction is addiction. No matter what you're addicted to you become powerless and life will eventually become unmanageable. I currently smoke cigarettes but I'm still in my first year of recovery so it helps me cope but when I'm in a better place mentally and spiritually I'll attempt to quit. I don't smoke more than a few a day because of how exhausted it makes me when I run and lift so it's not out of control but it's still bad.

[–]ffffffffffdddddsss1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I am my worst enemy. And I fucking hated that my body is not in this with me. But against me

[–]Godskook1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

The idea I've been brewing on is this:

Don't be a consumer of things, be a doer and producer of things.

[–]mmkzero31 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy

I recently stop all of my shit and I'm proud of it by replacing them with these things:

NoFap, reading books, political interests (communism), stop playing video games, improving my outer look, TRP ofc and lots more, like the Iceman method

In my dictionary, addiction doesn't exist. Only willpower does

[–]terereaholic1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy

Like communism and how it works and the history behind it kind of thing, or liking it as a form of political socio-economy theory that you would like to apply?

[–]solidsever1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I think the idea of "false happiness" vs "true happiness" to be subjective.

Is the richest and most innovative medical weed dispenser just covering up their issues with drugs or successfully pursuing their dreams (spreading the health benefits of weed far and wide) regardless of whether I personally approve of them?

OP has not suggested a single form of "true happiness" that would be preferable over these proposed bad habits that supposedly produce "false happiness".

[–]BrodinsOats0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

As a recovering addict, two things that come to mind are "too much is never enough" and the myth of Icarus, who flew too close to the sun.

You can't find true happiness in getting high. You're just chasing the dragon.

[–]kshell117241 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

"False happiness" is an incredibly subjective term. If something as simple and easy as weed can make you content with life, then I see that as far more beneficial than always chasing the horizon of happiness and never truly realizing that you were there all along.

[–]1Tommy_4070 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The unearned drips of dopamine, serotonin, & oxytocin come mainly from things like heroin, crack, ecstasy, meth, and the like. Marijuana in moderation or with a plate is a different story.

The above substances will destroy your dopamine and every other goddamned thing. Those are when you truly experienced undeserved chemicals. Borrowing happiness from tomorrow.

That being said I really liked the post. I'm an addict in recovery and abstain from all chemicals. You're right about about alot of things.

[–]ilikemychickenfried[🍰] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Should I stop masturbating entirely? I've managed to kick video games, porn, uselessly​ browsing social media and watching TV/movies. I've started reading more, lifting 5 days a week, cut the bad food from my diet and have started woodworking. I also want to quit drinking, I've wanted to for a while but kept drinking because society and friends look at you weird if you don't.

I've seen people say you should stop masturbating and as it stands I only masturbate every 3-4 days. At that point it begins to effect the way I think and I start to lower my standards and blue pill thoughts begin to creep in. Is this just the way life is and I have to find an outlet for this pent up energy? Or is this because my body is used to more frequent indulgence? Should I stop entirely?

[–]Corinco2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Should I stop entirely?

I give myself one "mulligan" a week. If you need more than that you need to get laid with an actual person. Moderation or bust.

[–]ilikemychickenfried[🍰] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Good advice, thanks for replying. I'll try it out

[–]everyone_wins0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

So true! I quit smoking and I feel incredible after getting past the initial withdrawals. Now I need to drop the drinking, which is less of a problem, but still false rewards.

[–]thefaceless_0970 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Solid post man. I needed this.

[–]failberry0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I've been lurking on "leaves" for a few days trying to find motivation to quit a 5 years weed habit that slowly ate my life like cancer. It was helpful to rationalize the problem but the real change happened when I stumbled into the MRP. I can say without drama that life changed when (thanks to man of March) I quit weed porn and fap cold turkey. One cannot even imagine the benefits of quitting addictions. today is day 34 for me all is going uphill and I realized most men have addictions and those addictions impact their life in a way that you can't even imagine. I m 38 and I look to the young ones. The Sooner you get the rid of ANY addiction the better your life will be , I know it sounds banal but that's what makes the difference in a man life.

[–]Peter_B_Long0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Best feeling ever is accomplishing your goals every day (lifting every day, hitting your macros, meditating, cold approaching strangers and getting to know people, accomplishing all your tasks at your work), and then planning a taste of something sweet (a cheat meal, a night out with the boys, maybe even a night where you watch your favorite movies). You don't feel regret and disappointment for doing something enjoyable and you look forward to it and are able to enjoy it more vs when you do something unproductive cause you felt like it at the time.

And even then, sometimes those old bad habits / rushes of dopamine aren't even as enjoyable as you remember. Maybe you used to drink soda every day and then stopped cold turkey a month ago, and you reward yourself a can of Dr. Pepper with your dinner, but when you take that first sip, it's so carbonated and way too sweet and you can't even finish the can now, but a month ago you could chug a 2 liter.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks for this post brother, i was feelin sad today an was about to beat my meat. Porn and masturbation have been my addiction for 9 years now, and im still trying to break it. never had a gf or even just fucked some random slut. the only sexual stimulation ive ever had was from my hand. and when youre that deep in, its a mental war fighting your way out. i feel like i was fated to read this in this moment, because i needed something to push me and tell me to keep fighting it. thank you.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Really hard to stop fapping

[–]benj4rman0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Wow. This post really hit home for me and your right, it's fake happiness. Thank you.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Solid post dude. I am on my way. Lets level up.

[–]joh21410 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I never knew the jarring effect if any addiction until I quit cigarettes. It was one of the hardest things but all it takes is pure willpower. Addiction controls you and gets the better judgement of you. It just isn't something an enlightened red pill man is burdened by. Ideally you want to be straight edge including alcohol but there are societal expectations.

Addiction holding frame mentality is like "I don't quit cigs because I'm no quitter. I'm a winner." Is like the same as a dumbass saying he can sleep when he dies... or you know you'll die because you don't sleep... or form degenerative brain disorder and become a giant belligerent infant.

That mentality is subjectivism and these people don't practice logic or practicality. Just whatever to excuse their complacency or flaws.

[–]1OneRedYear0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

What ever you cannot say no to is your master.

[–]Sonicmantis0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This post came at the perfect time. Thank you. This weekend i abused alcohol, got lost on the wrong lightrail stop, and was rude to my girlfriend, who was worried sick that i wasnt going to come home. No more pussyfooting around. No more alcohol abuse. I'm done.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I love this post, but I'd love it if someone could help me out.

I don't know how to destress myself in healthful ways. Whenever I am stressed, I will end up jerking off, smoking cigarettes, or smoking weed, or just waste my time on my phone. I do workout as well, and have upgraded my frame, and have developed myself into a better person while still carrying those unhealthy addictions with me.

What do?

[–]PissedPajamas0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This hits home OP. I'm addicted to caffeine and it's the hardest thing to quit especially when you're dieting to single digit bodyfat and need the boost.

I limited my intake to two tall cups of coffee a day but after a week reverted to 3 energy drinks of 300mgs a day. It's messing with my energy but I'm not at a point where I cant just take a few days to reset my adrenals.

[–]frawgz0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

This hits home for me. Time to shape up. For my own goals most importantly, but also so that society takes me seriously on what ideals I embody as a person. I was called lazy recently, and it's true.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Get it my nigger. Dont be a bitch, say no to your vices

[–]Stythe0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

If you notice that cycle it really is time to gtfo of it. If you want to drink, blaze, trip, jerk off, etc it really is fine if it doesn't impede in your life. But you know when something is impeding because you aren't happy in thay area.

You could be smoking weed err'day and kicking ass at work, but your social life is suffering. You could be exercising like a boss but jerking off too much to get a date. You could be hitting the books and learning every day but playing so many video games after you aren't socializing.

Life is balance. Taking a break and getting trashed in fine sometimes, so long as it doesn't impede your overall progress or interfere with areas of your life. Just pay attention.

[–]ilearnfast0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I needed to read something of this quality. Thank you. Spot on.

[–]AmatureProgrammer0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I'm addicted to porn right now and I'm struggling to overcome it. You're right, addiction kills motivation. I desperately need help over coming it.

[–]butter_coffee0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I don't know when it just clicked for me, but I realize the joy of self discipline is far greater than whatever "hit" I get. I haven't craved junk food for the first time because I realized that the dopeamine hit is nothing and fake compared to the long lasting calm of knowing you have control.

When my friends say dieting is hard because of temptations, I don't understand that anymore. I know whatever it is, it's not worth it. Nothing compares to the long lasting joy of success. It doesn't feel like deprivation or punishing yourself to eat healthy foods anymore. I used to wait until I've "done good enough" to have a "reward" or crave cake and pizza all the time, but now it's like... is that even a reward? And why do I have to do good only for a short period of time? Why not just be good forever?

The same with money. I don't get the thrill of blowing money and looking rich and being materialistic. I get more contentment saving.

[–]Jakeisahooligan0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I started smoking pot when I was 15, and my life has basically flatlined since I started. I am now 18, and I've been off for three weeks and I feel I've been more productive in the last three weeks than the last three years. I got to the point of smoking pot three times a day, and I was like fuck this all I do anymore is veg out and listen to music. I've been reading three times a day for the last three weeks and it's helped tremendously. I can say from experience, you definitely do not want to make weed a habit. It fucks with your REM sleep cycles which is when you internalize all the shit you learned that day, so that being said it really doesn't surprise me that my life was stagnant for three years because I barely even remember high school haha. Stay on the straight and narrow if you really wanna do good for yourself.

[–]AlwaysFlank0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I didn't do anything today. I left work early to cook, clean, play my guitar, then go to a dancing event and I did absolutely none of it. I did, however, not smoke weed all day. Holy shit what a difference. I was depressed all day! But I got through it and I feel a lot better actually. Thank you; here's to a new opportunity tomorrow

[–]yenmeng0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Literal shivers by the end of this, great post OP.

[–]SSJ_Trunks0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This is so true I have a serious problem with eating (about 21% body fat) and ive been trying to cut for years but just cant because I always give in and tell my self, "ill start the diet tomorrow". So sad dont know what to do

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This summer I am going to level up, gonna turn Facebook off for summer, while I focus on myself. :)

[–]pct920 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thank you man. I really needed to read this tonight. Going thru some rough times. Thanks OP. Opened my eyes to somethings I've been purposefully overlooking.

[–]vsvp8150 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Sure addiction is dehumanizing but if someone is addicted to lifting does the same idea apply? "Quit a habit" what about lifting? Only the bad habits? Who decides what's a good habit and what's not? Sure jacking off every day is certainly a bad habit but the more neutral habits I would say are a bit more subjective.

[–]1empatheticapathetic0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Lol this thread was Fucking popular and it got removed.

[–]frawgz0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Hey what happened.... I felt inspired by this thread kinda sucks that its down now. What was wrong with it?

[–]Dank_Meems-4 points-3 points  (2 children) | Copy

Jesus christ this sub is so douchey some times....

[–]terereaholic7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

If working hard and not intoxicate yourself is 'douchey' well them yeah. But it's not.

[–]redpill-account-5 points-4 points  (1 child) | Copy

Comparing weed addiction to hardcore addictions like coke and heroin is dumb af and clearly an observation by someone who has never seen actually addixts.

Weed can be psychological addicting but easy on the doom and gloom.

DO WHAT THE FUCK YOU WANT

[–]1empatheticapathetic7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

Missing the point. It's not about the level of addiction other than the fact you have any sort of dependency at any level to anything other than basic necessities like food, shelter and sleep.

[–]w3pep-2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy

OP should exercise some self control and refrain from shitting out this sage advice, like some strip mall guru who is more interested in self validation than with the betterment of his fellow man.

[–]CrynTheCrow-3 points-2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I dunno', do most people actually struggle with this? I don't drink or smoke, but I did try an edible early last year. Made me giggly, killed my headache, let me sleep easier, and there wasn't any sensation of dependency. We all are effectively nothing but chemicals, sustaining ourselves on the chemicals we bring in. This idea of 'purity' is, I think, fairly nonsensical, and if a substance vastly improves the quality of someone's life without significant consequences... why stop? Weed won't fuck up your body long term. Is a dependency really that inherently bad if the negative side effects really just amount to less funds daily? I might pick up weed, once I don't have to wear a suit most days.



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