To maximize your aesthetic potential, low bodyfat percentage is more important than size

sailorJery · 2017-12-08T11:36:19+00:00

Dude Jason Statham is like 180lbs

cyberkrist · 2017-12-08T11:37:05+00:00

Normally just watch, but had to chime in here. Power lifter, personal trainer, and former bodybuilder here. You need to set a goal and do what you need to do to achieve it. That may be cutting fat for some or building size for others. There isn't one formula for esthetics. I carry more fat because strength is my goal. Women like confidence, and that comes from being happy with your body, not chasing what you "think" women want.

bigboabydeuchars · 2017-12-08T15:22:31+00:00

Lean is definately the desired end goal in terms of maximising aesthetics (jawline, abs) but you have to get to a certain level of muscle mass first. There is no point in trying to get shredded if you don't have a solid base.

Unless you live in a hot climate where you can walk about topless all day, noone will even know you work out unless you have decent traps, lats and arms.

I see a lot of young guys in the gym that have very low bf and not much else and they tend to wear skintight white vests to emphasise their abs. These are generally the guys who would benefit immensely from spending six months over the winter training heavy and doing some serious eating.

EdmondDaunts · 2017-12-08T08:56:53+00:00

Strangely when you have been lifting for a while you get a bit of tunnel vision. You don’t see the progress in as dramatic a fashion. Other people do though.

You don’t see broadening shoulders, thickening legs and neck. But others meeting you for the first time or after a while do. That said, having a chiselled face may be an advantage but unless the whole body aesthetic is there it looks odd. Some people have good facial genetics.

However have the frame and the face. Definitely an advantage. It’s a fitness indicator.

ayefranco · 2017-12-08T14:41:57+00:00

Intermittent fasting. Lifting. Eating fucking well (healthily).

yeahnahimgood · 2017-12-08T15:17:53+00:00

Great post. I don’t have much to contribute here, other than my own personal experience with lifting for about 6 years, and many extreme cutting/bulking phases:

10% and under - girls will approach me, talking to them is extremely easy (I can get away with shit game etc), huge confidence boost which results in more girls (feedback loop), overall feeling great.

20% and over - no one fucking cares how much muscle you have on, girls will never approach, flirting becomes an uphill battle, overall feeling like shit.

I also agree it’s mostly about how your face changes.

Stay lean.

tesarpaul · 2017-12-08T09:49:04+00:00

Yeah, but if you are a newbie in lifting youd should first focus on gaining mass. Becouse it doesnt matter if you have low BF but you still look like DYEL skeleton. So I would say put some muscle mass first and then you can start cutting.

aguywholifts · 2017-12-08T16:30:06+00:00

Until you're not swimming in a medium t-shirt, you should be focused first on building up the muscle for a masculine physique and bulking for an indefinite period of time. Once that's achieved and you have a solid amount of muscle, then you can focus on shedding off the fat. Because while 175lbs at 10% is a nice pit stop, the goal will still be 210 at 10%.

jigglyp33n · 2017-12-08T09:28:05+00:00

False dichotomy. The 210 lbs guy at 10% bf has the edge.

Arabian_Wolf · 2017-12-08T14:25:43+00:00

Fellas with high bodyfat (over 20%):

HIIT in your offdays (non-lifting days, 2-3 times a week) is a must.

Source: my own prone to getting fat body.

raywilliam639 · 2017-12-08T22:40:56+00:00

Facial aesthetics > body aesthetics

skywaspdefensive · 2017-12-08T14:45:05+00:00

This to me is like a highschool vs grown-up realization. In highschool it was too much axe spray, chains, and getting as big as possible.

Over time you realize how to smell, dress, and look.

Luckily we are splitting hairs here because it takes about the same effort in the gym either way. Like I said it's just slowly learning the subtle differences over time.

ohsoentitled · 2017-12-08T15:59:09+00:00

Actually, studies have shown that for men the body fat that is perceived as health is between 8 and 21% body fat. For attraction, the best body fat percentage is actually around 16% with around 80% lean muscle mass at around 170lbs. Of course this is dependent on your height but the overall optimal physique for attraction is "lean muscular". But it certainly isn't low body fat i.e. <10%.

Herdsengineers · 2017-12-08T14:24:35+00:00

I think the "sweet spot" for each guy is a little different. Some look good at 10%. Some look too emaciated and need to be a little higher. Depends on the body type - ectomorph, endomorph, mesomorph. Each has a different individual sweet spot that looks best.

h4nkz · 2017-12-08T09:01:15+00:00

Everyone can bulk

Bullshit. Clean bulking is not easy. I find it way harder to get 3,5k kcal / day in with healthy food. It takes a lot of planning and you have to eat even if you are not hungry.

While cutting, just fast for 16hrs/day, keep your protein high and eat a lot of vegetables

mamaknulare · 2017-12-08T20:49:14+00:00

180 cm and 80 kgs here. No idea about fat % but I have veins from hands to shoulders and a six pack. Always get compliments for my body, the girl I was with two weeks ago told me I had the 'dream body'. What's funny is I only do calisthenics and bjj and I saw some bullshit thread here a while ago saying that calisthenics is ''beta''.

redlurker9 · 2017-12-08T12:08:54+00:00

I personally disagree. Of course being low fat is an asset, and nobody wants to be a fat fuck. But I'm currently bulking, I'm at around 21%bf, my lifts have dramatically increased in the past months and I feel way better than when I was 15% after keto. I'm stronger, I feel manlier, people respect me more and are more submissive around me (literally getting out of my way when I walk). Yes, ultimately I want these chisel features. But not before I can bench 2 times my weight.

whatsariho · 2017-12-08T09:03:04+00:00

Fuck. You must be a 15 year old child.

How the fuck is Statham above 200lbs :D. He is about 5'8'' tall. He is like 175lbs MAX.

Also when you're a natural and don't have top tier genetics you look small as fuck at 175lbs 10% when you're not short as fuck. BTW most of those guys in the bb forum pics are most probably using something.

This is some grade A bullshit that the media has fed you that all women gravitate towards the 175lbs 10% bf skinny faggot. If you don't have a gut hanging over your belt and look relatively decent and have confidence then most women don't give a shit about bf %. Or do you think women run around with calipers and measure every potential mate they see?

In summation you probably don't know shit about lifting or anything at all for that matter if you're this uninformed about this topic.

MattyAnon · 2017-12-08T11:44:45+00:00

Great post and totally on point.

, rather than through spot reduction, although some deposits deplete faster depending on your genetics.

Yes, spot reduction is utterly debunked and it's exactly as OP says. It was a manufactured myth, perpetuated by people's need to believe.

It's no secret that the vast majority of male actors, models and sex symbols are all low bodyfat. Even the ones that are above 200lbs (Statham) have chiselled faces and low bodyfat

Exactly. Attractive male actors are now startlingly low BF.

Many guys tend to put fat on their faces as they bulk,

Got a babyface? Cut down the BF!

Also - still freaking lift. It helps with BF reduction, and you want some muscles to go with that cut physique.

But how do I get low BF, Matty?

Lift, cardio (3 x 20 minutes at high intensity per week), 500 calorie deficit under your baseline, weigh yourself weekly to check progress, you'll lose 2 lb per week.

It's that simple. It's hard. It's very hard. But it is simple.

bobbobbitybob · 2017-12-08T14:47:04+00:00

Remember to keep the numbers healthy.

I have been competition-ready shredded and I've had a lot of problems with libido and joint pain (main reason = low %bf). Never mind the loss of strength that can get on your ego easily.

It's always good to look at yourself and decide if you want to build parts of your body up or shred the fat. Don't focus on the numbers, especially with %bf.

Koalasonfire · 2017-12-11T03:55:30+00:00

It’s very motivating to see pics of face gains on guys who weren’t particularly fat to begin with. Every little bit of bf% lost makes a difference.

Usually face gain pics involve a heavily obese ‘before’ image, but a lot of guys are probably like me and are neither fat nor cut, guess that’s what happens when you lift but don’t give a fuck about what you eat. Excited to see what happens to me as I just started a serious cut yesterday.

arthurabyssal · 2017-12-08T13:56:42+00:00

Okay lets clear something up Right Now. Eating loads of food and whatever you see will not make you build muscle faster. There is this mentality that you have to be stuffed all the time to "bulk" - whatever that means. All that will do is spike insulin throughout the day and cripple what really causes growth: growth hormone and testosterone levels. It is true that you have to have amino acids in the blood but how much do you think sugars and excess insulin in the blood help muscle growth and hormone optimisation?

Muscle is protein, not carbohydrate. Don't spew that you need loads of carbs to gain muscle, the majority of golden-era bodybuilders watched their carbs, such as Ric Drasin, Frank Zane and Vince Gironda. Yes muscle weighs a lot but harldy as much as people think. I started lifting as a skinny boy 7 months ago at 60kg and now I weigh 61 kg. However a lifeguard came up to me saying how different I looked and other people at the gym and friends are always asking how I "built so much muscle". Truth is, a huge component of 'muscle-growth' is capillary growth which supplies more blood to the muscle, although some growth is myofibrilliar growth. Still, how much do you think an extra inch around your arm will weigh? My arms are huge compared to 6 months ago but I don't weigh much more. I have kept very lean the whole time and whereas I could only deadlift 90kg max, I can now deadlift 120kg which is around twice my bodyweight. Chest is much bigger and stronger but it doesn't weigh much.

Point is a vastly improved body shape with chisseled muscles and fibres showing on the shoulder etc does not mean many kilograms or pounds of extra weight. Eat well-sourced meat, liver (best natural overall supplement for endurance, energy, protein and acne), eggs, butter, monounsaturated oils and avocados and vegetables. Anything else is essentially sugar and should be thought about carefully. Don't tell me about glycogen loading. The body makes more than enough glycogen. Weightlifting a few times a week does not deplete glycogen stores fully, marathon running does, and even top marathon runners are adapting their bodies to fat-burning with high fat low carb diets. The body makes its own glycogen. The whole idea of bulking is silly bananas. It is not an excuse to eat junk and bloat-up on carbohydrates and make your health suffer. Stop obsessing over calories they mean less than you think when you take into account people's different microbiomes and insulin resistance. For example, cutting on a high-carbs diet causes high insulin levels meaning you are more likely to atrophy (burn muscle instead of fat). Calories do not mean everything. Eat when you are hungry and skip breakfast. A carb-based diet makes you always hungry whereas a healthy fats and protein diet regulates hunger properly.

Redagogue · 2017-12-08T14:22:34+00:00

Growing up, I was a fat kid that got no attention from the ladies. Eventually I manned up and took responsibility and lost the weight. Life got way better, way more confidence, more attention, etc. However, I went from fat to skinny fat as a result of just dieting with no exercise. I was petrified of becoming fat again after experiencing how much better being normal was. Later on, people started mentioning off-hand that I was skinny. Sometimes I would get light headed and easily tired. As a man in his 20's in his supposed physical prime years, I knew it would only get worse. I looked in the mirror and saw myself as I was: out of shape, low muscle, unhealthy. So, I manned up and took responsibility and went to the gym. Not wanting to get fat, I counted calories and macros to do just enough to get stronger and by proxy gain muscle. I did that for about a year, and stopped making progress after a few months. I would get injured, drop the weight to recover, get back to previous level, and get sick/injured/miss workouts. I was dedicated, didn't give up, pushed myself, studied proper form, etc. Being stuck with a sub 250lb squat and other subpar lifts after a year of gym work, I knew something more than bad luck was wrong here. I'm not a special snowflake. So, I manned up and recently took responsibility and started eating more.

In the last few months, I've blown through PR's almost every workout. Life is better, and now I'm reaching my goals at a resonable rate. My point is that fat is easily lost and gained. Unless you're in your teens and early twenties, building muscle is going to be a battle. Don't fuck around, like I did, with "slow bulking" or "lean gains" for fear of fat. I'll be clear here, as idiots with poor reading comprehension like to make straw men: I'm saying don't eat like a pig and dirty bulk. However, the vast majority of the people on this sub need to realize that once you have a decent foundation of strength and muscle, cutting is much much easier. Past the first bit of training, you will have to make a choice between losing fat and gaining muscle. Trying to do both at the same time is going to take orders of magnitude longer than standard bulk/cut cycles.

I have been fat, I have been skinny, and now more muscled. At the end of the day, if you have the discipline to change your body composition and know you can do it, then being 6-8% more fat for a while to optimize muscle growth won't even bother you.

Nihev · 2017-12-08T17:09:17+00:00

Your face is not puffy at 17% bf

Ninokun · 2017-12-08T21:40:24+00:00

Women prefer Abs much more then Big Arms or Big Legs.

Men always say never skip Leg day but Women actually give Zero, zilch,0,de nada shit about that at all!!!

.

Have low enough bodyfat so u have abs and defined Jaw and Cheekbones, Use the Pull down lat machine so u have kind of a broader Frame.

Noodless001 · 2017-12-08T08:56:05+00:00

All bro science. Want to have a healthy face that glows make sure you are getting your vitamins A, B, C, K ect..... and don't be the peanut butter, oily face guy, wash your face daily.

LiveAFTSOV · 2017-12-08T06:26:03+00:00

warriors dont care about being pretty, they care about murdering their enemies, usually by being bigger and stronger

if you're 150 lb and 18-20% lb, and you cut to 10-12% bf to get that "chisled jaw" look, you will also weigh 135 lb, look like a scrawny kid, and intimidate no one. So much for "warrior ethos."

Cut after you've reached milestones. 165, 185, etc.

Also, lean bulking will result in a steady growth of muscle, without fat, slowly, therefore BF% lowers naturally

kenpachitz · Fri Dec 8 12:50:16 2017 UTC

Everyone can bulk, but cutting is what separates the mentally strong from the mentally weak.

Used to think this was just macho bullshit.

Let’s just say a month on 1,400 calories per day has made me see things differently.

Ridicatlthrowaway · 2017-12-08T16:28:03+00:00

Lol your first sentence is about not lifting for women then goes into full fucking article about lifting to satisfy women.

Snowbattt · 2017-12-08T11:03:50+00:00

It kinda depends though. I used to weigh 65 kilo for 1m93 height... I had 10% bodyfat and I looked like shit. You do need some bulk on your frame for muscles to show up.

Djdonald · 2017-12-08T12:59:00+00:00

There’s no one path for everybody. Everyone is different. Some people would respond well to bulking first, some to cutting. I’d rather have a high body fat than look like a DYEL weeb who forgets to eat because I’m killing noobs in league of legends all day.

majorketone · 2017-12-08T15:07:08+00:00

Any tips on how to cut down bodyfat? I'd say I'm naturally skinny and have pretty low BF but my face is not chiseled as I'd like it to be. Could this simply be due to low T? I've been trying to naturally increase it for a few months now by eating clean, lifting, good sleep, vit D, etc but I haven't noticed a huge difference.

Sol_Invictus481 · 2017-12-08T15:17:05+00:00

Is there any guide on how to do this? Lower body fat while making sure the face doesn't get fatter while bulking?

gstarguru · 2017-12-08T16:10:09+00:00

Is 5 x 5 strong lifts good for this?

zenguyva · 2017-12-08T16:30:00+00:00

Your strategy depends on where you're starting from. First question is how much of your weight is fat and how much is muscle. If you are active and or do jobs that require strength and lifting then you may have lost of muscle. Cutting may be your best bet. If you're new don't have much muscle and need to lose wt you may as well begin with cutting. After all, you're not going to be lifting heavy for awhile and you can cut and spend some time getting your form right so you're ready when you are able to lift heavy.

Also, there is nothing wrong with cycling between building and cutting phases, lots of pros do that.

There is not and never will be a "right answer" it's just about finding the strategy that works for you, and will keep you doing this for the long run. It's not a 50 yard dash it's a marathon. Do it for life.

wayneinthegame · 2017-12-08T17:11:50+00:00

I'm still fat at 5'11" 240lbs (down from 360 last year), lifting heavy for hour once per week with a trainer.

Eating 300 cal deficit, but I should be doing more cardio than lifting at this point? Goal is to be at 200lbs by march.

(Thanks for the post, btw. Can't stop here at normal fat dude attracting post wall roasties. College chicks or bust baby.)

frogNews · 2017-12-08T17:12:58+00:00

What's the best way to burn body fat? Does cardio like jogging work, and for how much per day?

I do jogging for 30min every other day. At 5'10" 177lb, not sure if I'm at a good range for bmi.

Rss111 · 2017-12-08T17:37:42+00:00

Came here to say that Leangains (research that) saved my life

Matematik150 · 2017-12-08T17:58:04+00:00

The problem is that the leaner you get the weaker you get. When your bench falls for 100lbs trust me you will feel like shit and wont notice the mires you are getting

Tosma00 · 2017-12-08T18:48:26+00:00

I love the 10% at 175 and 17-18% at 210. Those are very impressive stats, actually.

My point is that you'd have to be an advanced lifter to be legitimately 10%bf at 175lbs. Most who think they're that lean are actually closer to 14 or 15. Just because you can see your six pack doesn't mean you're 10%.

And 17% at 210? I'm 6'1" with super broad shoulders and a barrel chest. I've been lifting seriously for 5 years and at 210lbs I'm closer to 25%bf.

At 175lbs I'd be close to 10% but I'm definitely above average in lifting, height and genetics.

BigArmLife · 2017-12-08T19:10:56+00:00

No one understands our pain

strikethrough123 · 2017-12-08T20:21:18+00:00

When I was skinny as fuck (110-120) my bodyfat was naturally low. If you're skinny as fuck, don't let this post make you think that you're in the clear because your bodyfat is low.

EtMementoMori · 2017-12-08T20:44:02+00:00

Don't cut until you bulk. Don't cut if you are skinny as hell and has no muscle. Again, DO NOT CUT if you have no muscles. If you have 10% body fat and 20% of muscle, you do not look Aesthetic. If you want to look aesthetically while not eating like a crazy to bulk, do lean-bulking and eat clean, that's a slow-but-sure way to go.

Goatse-s_Ring · 2017-12-08T21:09:22+00:00

Great post, OP, thanks for the info.

I don't think the "building power" flair is correct though? The mods made a message about it ages ago, and it sounded more like political/social power for the trp ethos.

berryfarmer · 2017-12-08T22:47:33+00:00

also to get rid of the face puffiness keep your thyroid in check, see / r / iodide and no there's not enough in your salt or food, also need cofactors

sansar_fighter · 2017-12-08T22:57:11+00:00

I think We add full compound exercises my list instead of İsolation Ex. This is good idea ?

danboy48 · 2017-12-09T01:02:56+00:00

A) you didn't specify and to add type two can still eat carbs if they exercise. Exercise is a greater stimulator of GLUT-4 than insulin alone.

B) untrue you could not NEED to lose weight, NOT have insulin resistance, but decide to cut cause you WANT to be leaner. You're speaking in absolutes which is retarded.

C) I can do all those things, 40 kilos heavier than you. You want a medal? Suck it.

danboy48 · Sat Dec 9 1:12:33 2017 UTC

You could be healthy weight (not need to lose weight)

You could be healthy weight and fit (not have insulin resistance, since that's typically related to metabolic syndrome). The last part you could just want to cut, to cut, you don't need to be overly fat first. As for GLUT-4 it's a glucose transporter into the muscle and fat cells

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/GLUT4

Forrix17 · 2017-12-09T14:03:56+00:00

Height matters with this I think. Women always go on about wanting to feel small and protected by their guy. If you're short its probably better to error on the side of high bf (but not obese/beer belly) and focus on getting as muscular as possible.

Greek-God-Brody · 2017-12-09T17:56:35+00:00

Staying lean long-term is easy if you get the fundamentals right:

Calories in - calories out & Macros Tracking
80% of your diet should consist of whole, nutritionally-dense, unprocessed foods
Emphasize your training on heavy, compound exercises in the 4-6 rep range and add isolations on top of that
Lean bulk instead of dirty bulk. Maximize muscle to fat ratio gained every month.
Keep your bulk and cut cycles in the 10-15% BF range to always keep your hormones in optimal state. Bulk until you reach 15%, then cut. Stop cutting when you no longer look muscular in clothes or when you're around 10% BF and / or you see a 6-pack. Repeat this process until you've close to your maximum genetic potential. Then stay lean (8-10% BF year round).

Aim for a protein intake of 0.8 g / lbs of bodyweight when bulking and 1 g / lbs when cutting.

LordThunderbolt · 2017-12-10T18:31:38+00:00

Have fun being "diced" and "shredded" when u can't even bench your shadow.

epicfadeout · 2017-12-10T19:50:31+00:00

You do realize that a lot of guys aren't so fortunately blessed with good facial aesthetics, right? For some men, even if they do cut down on excess body fat (which they should), that still isn't going to give them this sexy "angular" face which you speak of.

bitchple7se · 2017-12-11T11:28:10+00:00

But if you're a skinny stick bulk the fuck up, noone gives a shit if you have abs, your a fucking non sexual stick

ironjohnred · 2017-12-11T14:49:51+00:00

Low body fat directly equates to a more attractive, angular face. There's a reason all those dang media app filters thin your face. It makes you look good. Chicks dig that look.

umadlolx3 · 2017-12-08T12:58:32+00:00

i mean why such talks are only heard by guys that try hard to put muscle mass and then end up 170lb skinny fegs? I guess they(you) are making this bs as an excuse to justify being skinny..

Some people look better with higher bf
People store fat in different parts of body, many can be fat but have good facial aesthetics
It's not only about facial aesthetics

i have slept with around 40 different women(yeah i had tally until 36th, then had few more(not sure exactly how many more) & then got a gf.

when it all started, i was rolling at around 6% bf for few years prolly 17-21, this is because i was boxing/mma for 4x a week and lifting 3x a week so training every day, sometimes i did 2 workouts in 1 day like morning mma-evening lifting..

so @ 17-21,

I was low body fat
I had defined facial aesthetics
Kept nice haircut & no facial hair 24/7
Focused on getting nice & trendy clothes

end result = was quite hard to get laid, had to struggle quite a lot and chase girls a lot... Online girls didn't really fall for my pics much, even though i put nice pics with defined jawline and chit..

now i am 24, slightly older, around 18% bf, much bigger when compared to before, barely visible abs, a lot of body hair..

And now i get attention from all girls, young & older & cougars as a bonus, i mean more girls seem to fall for my profile pics and talk to me irl and it is much easier to approach girls...

I am not sure this is because of looks or because my anxiety is gone and literally dont care if i get rejected or smth, but i can't remember getting rejected.

Like I'm one of the biggest guys in my gym and we have mirrors everywhere, so in many angles u have like whole gym view.. But when im lifting i can notice attention from many girls, and often get approached, like they ask how to use this and that or just help, some girls just come over for a chat..

like the other day those two barely legal girls, with a really good and thick squat booties came over to talk to me, asked why they never see me out etc... (clearly interested in me)

of course this comparison is not the best, as i am going to a community gym, and in a more complex gym with more people looking bigger & better than me i would get less attention but still..

it's not only about looks, it's just about your personality, timing, places you visit, confidence...

aurelius_shrugs · 2017-12-08T16:54:18+00:00

Women like sexual contrast, dipshits. Be bigger, taller, more confident, risk taking, irrationally confident, arrogant with strangers, etc. Be a big, badass dude. Size and height are the most important for the physical side of attraction.

Body fat is only important if you’re short or obviously have type 2 diabetes. Six packs only matter on tinder.

banjew · 2017-12-08T07:00:39+00:00

They really looks nicer to me, but then again I'm a men. Don't know the beauty standards of women. I think women in general despises too thin guys.

bobbobbitybob · 2017-12-08T12:18:59+00:00

Sacrifice a year of two and do proper bulk to get size. Cut and maintain. Get little surplus for 14 weeks and do slow cut. Repeat.

You can't be LEAN and BUILD.

RedPill_Swinger · 2017-12-08T12:56:44+00:00

Cutting fat made even that Chinese looking guy's hair regrow... wtf guys? That topic is fake as hell

ScottDurden · 2017-12-08T16:16:04+00:00

facial aesthetics improve a lot as you go down in bodyfat percentage.

I can confirm this 100%. Around 10-12% bf my cheeks start to hollow out & it looks aesthetic as fuarrrrkkk.

telecowboy · 2017-12-08T17:19:22+00:00

Partially true. Girls want a big guy over a skinny six pack any day. Most guys would feel better being bigger than leaner too, especially if they're not brand new to working out. All the noobs want is a six pack.

However, there is a lot of truth in what you're trying to say. I bulked for about a year and a half last bulk, got very big, felt very confident, felt very attractive. Went from 8% shredded 8 pack to probably 17%, huge and strong and 2 back. I cut back down recently and female attention is through the roof. I modeling in my teenage years so I have a great face structure/jawline. Looking at pictures from before my recent cut, all that was gone. I actually looked fat, when at the moment I thought that was the best I looked and was dreading the cut. Now at the end of my cut, yes I'm a little smaller but throw a sweatshirt on and I look the same size with a razor for a jawline.

Volt52121 · 2017-12-08T19:52:06+00:00

FWIW, I think going into fitness by cutting to 10% first has a lot of benefits that will continue to show down the road.

Cutting forces you to actually pay attention to what you eat rather than just eating a shitton under the excuse that you're 'bulking'. If you start by successfully getting lean, you will have reached a point where fitness is part of your lifestyle and you have the discipline to stick to it.
Cutting to low body fat makes your face and body look better. Gaining muscle mass when you're not lean doesn't make you look much better until you cut later on.
Low body fat makes it easier to gain mass, and it makes your gains more apparent, which is important for motivation.
After a cut you are ready to slow bulk. Your body shape won't change drastically, you will always be pretty low bf% with an added pound every month or two. This is useful if you like having clothes that fit.

RedRumRaider · 2017-12-09T11:36:52+00:00

This is a hard and fast rule and shouldn't be applied too broadly. You'll look better shirtless with a low bf%, but you'll fill out clothes better with bulk. You gotta pick the one that works best for you long term. This is assuming natty status. If you're not natty you should be going for both (otherwise what the fuck are you doing?).

Torabor64 · 2017-12-08T09:39:15+00:00

OP you are a retard. I began at 130lb and you could see my ribs if I took off my shirt. Literally no one respected me or liked me. After gaining 20 pounds on starting strength doing gomad and getting fat everyone treated me much better. Now I don't even care about aesthetics, I'm just doing strength training and I will get as fat as I need to be to progress at that.

Also, girls will get more wet from you picking them up and throwing them at your bed than from seeing your six pack. That just makes you look like a tryhard at their eyes.

SwoleyMoleyFrijoley · 2017-12-08T13:24:19+00:00

Fastest way to look like you put on ten pounds of muscle is to lose ten pounds of fat.

chillledoutnumber · 2017-12-08T15:30:36+00:00

At 6'0, I've had much better results with girls at 185lbs and 12% body fat than I have at 210 and 18% body fat, so there is truth. Most women seem to prefer the swimmer build compared to bodybuilder build, like it or not.

protozoic_girl_scout · 2017-12-08T16:06:04+00:00

Bulking is a meme. We all know this by this point, don't we?

Andgelyo · 2017-12-08T16:55:00+00:00

Disagree with all these lazy lards saying that without a doubt being softer and rounder attracted them more women. I’ve never been a fat ass obese dude, but I’ve been everywhere from thin and ripped, to soft and out of shape, to medium sized and athletic (my body now- developed shoulders, and lats, and chest). Without a doubt my body now attracts WAY MORE women than ever before. Even more so when I was ripped and lean in my undergrad and high school days. The one thing that never attracted women in my experience was being a soft, pudgy guy.

zielkarz · 2017-12-08T11:42:08+00:00

Well, it's easier to lose fat when you are muscular. Focus on muscle mass first.

dcmbp · 2017-12-08T15:44:32+00:00

Absolutely agree with this. I've been on a vegan diet for over 7 months now and I'm ~10% body fat. I got myself Nokia Body Cardio scale which measures your body fat percentage as well as weight, heart rate, muscle mass, water percentage etc. Helps me to track my progress.

I see lots of guys at the gym just bulking up with massive stomachs due to poor diets. Doesn't look attractive IMO.

TheMannarino · 2017-12-08T16:34:19+00:00

All these dudes over 15% bodyfat trying to justify it by saying they're stronger are all deluding themselves. When I was the 300+lbs fat SHW powerlifter, no one gave a fuck about my lifts, let alone my aesthetics. Now that im the 190lbs dude at 8% bodyfat squatting 500+, benching 350+ and deadlifting 700+, things are a LOT different. Suck this humble-brag lmao. You can be strong, lean and natural if you work hard enough. Quit hamstering and cut the chub. And fuck what girls think, if you're obsessive over your physique because of females then you're no different than they are. Being lean and strong FEELS amazing, almost super-human. And the side effect is chicks dig lean, jacked and strong dudes, so its a win-win.

Galbert123 · 2017-12-08T18:52:35+00:00

Dont pedastalize aesthetics. Utility is number one. Train to be ready for any phsycial required at a moments notice. Looking good is a side effect of hard work and smart choices.

Luiser27 · 2017-12-08T19:34:32+00:00

I am not changing my goals to "maximize my aesthetic potential". I lift and bodybuild for myself, I rock a very rugged masculine bulky look even though I'm only about 205 and 14% BF.

Because I'm confident and I truly enjoy my look and the way I train, I always outperform the skinny guys who are worried about being super "shredded" and are constantly worrying about not getting fat or dropping that extra pound for their lower ab veins.

If your goal is only to get women sure, go for it. But if you lift mostly to get women, you probably haven't been lifting long enough.

Tosma00 · 2017-12-08T20:20:45+00:00

Ideally you should stay under 15% bodyfat even if pursuing strength. I know it can be hard for natties. But going above 20% is not very interesting especially if you care about aesthetics.

Find legit programs if you are a beginner. LyleMcdonald, Layne norton, Greg nuckols, Stoppani.. all developed legit programs. Learn to eat. I think IIFYM works well for me but that's my body. Intermittent fasting can help you. And please stop the shit standards. (Almost) every man can bench 3 plates, squat/dl 4 or 5, and look good around 10-13% bf 23-26 BMI.

https://www.strongerbyscience.com/realistic-training-goals/ https://www.strongerbyscience.com/being-strong-is-not-an-excuse-to-be-fat-and-being-fat-is-probably-holding-you-back/

warburgio · 2017-12-08T22:30:35+00:00

I got lost when you said that getting muscles is easier than loosing fat. I got from 'chiseled' 80 kg boxer with 'razor abs' to 105 kg lifting guy with some abs in two years. Difference are huge in all aspects of life, and gives me so much advantage with girls that it is just crazy.

_Cold_Hands_ · Fri Dec 8 10:57:03 2017 UTC

You guys are so fucking gay

Title	To maximize your aesthetic potential, low bodyfat percentage is more important than size
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	445
Comments	373
Date	December 8, 2017 5:53 AM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/7icyx1/to_maximize_your_aesthetic_potential_low_bodyfat/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/to-maximize-your-aesthetic-potential-low-bodyfat.47640 https://theredarchive.com/post/47640

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