The army is one of the best examples of gender inequality towards MEN

floriandeckard · 2021-02-14T11:24:42+00:00

Dude, just look at the news:

"Bomb exploded. 25 dead, including 10 women and children"

Men are already expandable. Men are all potential combatants. It is normal for them to die.

Children not. Only children should be mentioned separately.

Bluelabel · 2021-02-14T08:55:09+00:00

Didn't Hillary Clinton say that the primary victims of war were women... because they lose their husbands?

Get your mental gymnastics around that.

real_donald_pump · 2021-02-14T07:19:23+00:00

Bro. Join the actual army and youll see some real sexism pointed at us.

Men, go grab that heavy thing.

Men, go do x dangerous task.

Meanwhile, the women sit around and do other shit. They can do hard shit too. Pick them once in a while.

Then you have grooming standards, general treatment, sexual assault and harassment biases, and the list goes on.

QuickPesto · 2021-02-14T14:21:03+00:00

Men- often only teenagers- have been forced to fight and die against their will for thousands of years. It's an element of male disposability that society just accepts this without question.

Even today, conscription remains the norm. Many countries with a reputation of gender equality practice male only conscription- Austria, Finland and Switzerland come to mind. Yet these countries still rank highly on "rankings" of gender equality. When discrimination/sexism happens to males, it's ignored as if it "doesn't count."

MichaelJohn33 · 2021-02-14T05:25:12+00:00

Nice one... “If you notice it, this is never brought up as a gender issue.” actually it was brought up in 1948 when woman were granted the right to serve in the military.

Tribeless1 · 2021-02-14T14:34:23+00:00

It makes perfect sense once you understand that we’ve never lived in a Patriarchy, we have lived in a Gynocentric Society all along.

Women are valued simply for existing by society because women can have and raise children. Even if a young woman says they will not have children, society still values them because they might change their minds later. Women are raised from birth to know they have value just for existing.

A Mans doesn’t have any Value for simply existing in society at all. Men are Expected to Earn Value by Providing Value by what they do.

Men are Disposable by Society. We expect Men to fight and die in Wars. We Expect Men to risk their lives for others.

We detest Men who refuse to risk their lives for others, or who don’t go down with the Titanic as cowards, weaklings, and morally bankrupt. Men struggle to find ways to bring value to the table so that they can get the girl.

The happiest Men statistically are Men who are married and have children and who are able to afford to provide and care for them all. Society respects these Men for bringing value to society by providing for their families.

Women don’t want to hear about the struggles of Men unless the Man can frame it as this is something he experienced and overcame, as part of a journey towards greatness. That’s why the majority of homelessness are Men who are Mentally ill, or who fell on hard times. Male suicide rates are climbing. Men struggle in family courts. So many people in jails and prisons came from broken families. Prostate Cancer research is grossly under budget. But I’m preaching to the choir here...

Chudsaviet · 2021-02-14T07:28:34+00:00

And in ex-USSR countries, all men have to spend from a year to two in the army, where they will be treated as slaves, can be injured or killed even not on war. So if you fail to get into a college - you are doomed. If you a girl - you have a second chance.

kashh444 · 2021-02-14T08:01:49+00:00

Not in all countries people go to the army by their own wish. In many countries all men go to the army when they turn 18 by default. It is the law. Women, however, can join the army by their own wish.

MuntedMunyak · 2021-02-14T06:53:10+00:00

Now that women are allowed to join you think it would be fair right? No, they have lower expectations and as you would imagine the guys in the groups would give her more slack and probably even cover for her sometimes.

PoolOfAlpacas · 2021-02-14T05:22:06+00:00

I get what you mean. The military is just sexist to both parties honestly. To the men you have to MAN UP and be MANLY because you're a MAN, TAKE IT LIKE A MAAAAN. You're expected to sacrifice your mental health and physical health because some politicians said "let's go to war!" Aw hell no! Why??? You're expected to put your life on the line and even if you make it out you cant erase everything you've seen and experienced. Why is this considered a normal thing? You shouldn't have to be subjected to being indoctrinated into the military and put into war because of stupid political issues that come and go as they always do.

jsalami · 2021-02-14T12:50:38+00:00

Whenever I enter a gender equality convo, I always begin with “I believe men and women to be equal, which is why I support women registering for the draft”. What follows is usually pretty awkward.

BuraBanda · 2021-02-14T15:53:01+00:00

The real problem is not that, women do serve in the army sometimes. But the actual prolem is that they are at ease in the army, they get easier training, easier tasks and they are rarely at the frontlines.

InfiniteDials · 2021-02-14T05:29:05+00:00

I agree with this to a certain extent. I think there is a mentality of male disposability in our culture, and I don’t think feminism does enough to address it.

I feel like some people see fighting in war some sort of privilege. It’s the whole “being proud to fight for your country” sort of thing. I don’t think those people really understand the actual trauma and pain that comes with fighting in a war. A lot of this also has to do with military propaganda and the way it brainwashes people to give they’re lives for the good of the “cause” even the cause is just oil Tycoons lining their pockets.

With all of that being said, however, these problems stem from a patriarchal system. The people who made these laws were men, and it’s mostly been men reinforcing them. That’s not to say it isn’t a legitimate issue, and that’s not to say that women don’t benefit from this systemic imbalance. It’s just important to keep in mind where these problems came from in the first place.

Neveah_Hope_Dreams · 2021-02-14T08:26:53+00:00

Really? I always thought that feminism advocated for women being in the army?

CT_9274 · 2021-02-14T06:14:22+00:00

The reason this is is because men are BIOLOGICALLY stronger. They have 40-60% more muscle mass than their female counterparts.

This does not mean women can be strong, they can, just not as strong as guys.

Werwet10 · 2021-02-14T08:56:15+00:00

They say women weren't allowed to go to war otherwise they would want to serve their country. Tell them about the draft rules of the Switzerland army and how women aren't mandatorily drafted to serve the army EVEN TODAY. All males in the country should serve a specific duration in the army and if they don't planning doing that...they must pay a hefty fine including disabled men. Women in the past fought for equality cus they thought men were dumb and wanted them to go to war. They literally fought hard to get the vote and voted to go to war...why didn't they fight to serve in the army??

Other_Lingonberry234 · 2021-02-14T15:06:11+00:00

This is what's called 'benevolent sexism' (towards women). You're right - it negatively impacts men.

i_like_ats · 2021-02-14T08:34:04+00:00

War is stupid anyway

reeeeeeeeee058 · 2021-02-14T07:17:56+00:00

I am a men’s rights activist but I would have to kinda disagree there. I agree that society expects men to die on wars and if frontline units were made up of mostly women then the feminists would be going nuts.

The reason why the frontline units are mostly men is because it’s what attracts them most. I am an example of that, I plan to join the CAF when I am 18 and hope to be in the infantry or armoured (both are combat arms). Combat arms just doesn’t attract women for whatever reason and it isn’t because of sexism. Women are just more attracted to the non combat trades.

This argument seems kinda like the stupid feminist argument of “there are more male business owners so therefore women are oppressed”. It’s because men are attracted to running business more than women. It’s not sexism it’s just what people are attracted to.

No hate I just don’t 100% agree

Although I agree that society expects men to die in wars which I don’t like and I believe women should be conscripted of conscription is necessary.

SixthEarl · 2021-02-14T09:02:05+00:00

yeah and in a lot of post-soviet countries men MUST go to army for a fucking year. fucking year without phone, internet, good food and close people.

Arnofernandes · 2021-02-14T09:54:05+00:00

One of the problems here is that if you bring this up to a feminist, they won't listen to you, and just tell you that it's men's fault, and that they put that in the first place, which for me, is just plain bs

logsdon36 · 2021-02-14T07:25:32+00:00

When I was in, halfway decent looking women would get fucked by our married 1SG, thus getting groomed for promotion, working out of class to be their personal secretary, and getting out of any hard labor. I saw that kind of stuff too much, so I didn’t reenlist.

PanzerZug · 2021-02-14T07:57:19+00:00

It's almost as if it's a class struggle and not a struggle between sexes

Huffers1010 · 2021-02-14T11:44:41+00:00

I don't usually make this stuff public, but since I'm fairly anonymous here I will. I'm posting the following with the permission of the person I'm talking about.

Let's be fair. My SO spent 16 years in the military flying jets, a position that could very easily have seen her exposed directly to the worst excesses of what the worst people in the world could do. Downed aircrew are often not treated very kindly under the best of circumstances and a woman parachuting into somewhere like Afghanistan or Libya knows what they're likely to do to her. If I seem to be overstating the case a bit, bear in mind that what we see on TV regarding modern warfare is often very sanitised, and it is not the effortless, stress-free, low-risk nintendo game western governments like to pretend it is. Even on the ground phrases like "front line" have very little meaning these days and people working in the cookhouse find themselves refreshing their rifle drill before deployment. Modern militaries couldn't keep women in protected roles even if they wanted to be kept in protected roles, and they generally don't.

I should point out that the woman I'm talking about here finds the whole hardline feminist thing completely embarrassing and wants nothing to do with it. She's in one of the most stereotypically masculine careers imaginable. She's worked in Saudi Arabia, where at one time she was allowed to fly the jet but not to drive to the hotel - seriously. Both in the military and out of it she has seen real, actual, outspoken misogyny and not only had to absorb the insult but find a way to gain the respect of, and then work with, the person involved. I don't think most of the shrieking, blue-haired fundamentalists we're here to oppose have the faintest idea what the real world is like.

The crying shame of it is that when she does seminars for young wannabes, she spends a lot of time persuading young women to apply to do it, if they want to do it, because those same red-faced, hollering, extremist idiots seem to want to do nothing but persuade women that it's hopeless.

"I wanted to be a fighter pilot!"

"Did you apply?"

"No."

"Why not?"

"Because someone on Tumblr told me men were nasty."

Fuck. Ing. Hell.

SamothTigrasch · 2021-02-14T14:06:23+00:00

Men control most societal practices, historically. So this system was designed by men, most likely. Also, the majority of people in the highest level of social status are men now, so realistically, men could have the power to fix this. However, because of the perpetuation of “men must be men and do manly things and only these things are ok or else you’re not a ‘real’ man” type toxic masculinity, not only do women get less opportunities for careers and advancement in the army, but also men end up getting worse deals than women due to needing to do all the grunt worky manly men stuff. Does anyone else think it’s weird that the same people who make the rules are complaining about them?

Alkoholisti69420 · 2021-02-14T09:40:44+00:00

100% percent agreed, it makes me mad to think that in my country where we have conscripition service, women aren't required to serve

TryToDoGoodTA · 2021-02-14T11:36:00+00:00

In the middle to modern ages it was expected for men to do farm and contribute to war depending on time of year, and their wives to bear children.

Slowly it changed to women also contributed to the industrial base during total war and some men were permanently soldiers.

But now many countries do allow women in frontline combat but it's not a popular occupation. They aren't forced.

But what is the solution to this? Do we set quota's? Create armies out of random conscription. It is something that is often overlooked in the genderin equality debates, but at the same time a common sense view says to put aces in their places.

If person A can do job X why not? But why force person B into it? And if person C (male) cannot meet medical standards tp fight in the army why force him, instead of a woman who is wanting too and can meet the standards?

Until we have an actual conscription that ignores women and puts men who are not physically able to fulfill the role I feel this argument is trite.

I am former military, and we have a lot of women in our armed services, and they do their jobs adequately. A reverse argument could be being a kindergarten teacher is gender inequality, when it really is the job is less appealing to me.

There are LOTS of reasons as to why this is, but as long as choosing to join or not is voluntary I think a bigger problem comes from fathers with PTSD seeing their male child as worthless unless they sign up.

We no longer have the white feather girls...

bellendhunter · 2021-02-14T12:13:20+00:00

Those same men often become very damaged people and are then shunned by wider society because they don’t fit in.

Chellestter · 2021-02-14T18:15:28+00:00

I'm seventeen and here in my country military enlistment is mandatory and just all the thoughts about it make me want to cry sometimes

sexytimeinseattle · 2021-02-14T18:18:53+00:00

thats because the real victims of war are women.

--Hillary Clinton

2021-02-14T18:53:48+00:00

There are women in the infantry now. Got a few in my former unit, 1-32.

I was an assistant gunner to a 240L machine gun. 100 rpund belt weights 6.6 pounds. Combat load is 1200, sometimes 1500 depending on job requirements. Carried up to 140 pounds on some missions. I used to be 5'8, 168 pounds mostly muscle.

I carried the average athletic woman on my back, humped that weight to OBJ climbing over shit, jumping waddis, then warred, and humped it back (with considerably less weight). I welcomed enemy contact, meant I could shed some weight. Id love to see a typical fit female carry her own weight and then some.

nhergen · 2021-02-14T18:56:19+00:00

Why just the army? Why not all branches of the military? And for which country? For example, in Israel, women are also subject to compulsory military service, but both men and women can choose civil service instead if they object to fighting.

Your thoughts on this seem half-baked and ill-informed.

whitegato777 · 2021-02-14T19:58:48+00:00

As A libertarian, I really don't think we should go to war. Agree more on the swiss model of armed neutrality. But I can never help to think if we send our strongest off to war how is this not diseugenics? When the strongest get killed off it hurts the gene pool.

Performer_West · 2021-02-14T21:43:47+00:00

Men are viewed as disposable.

SheSeesSounds · 2021-02-14T22:16:29+00:00

Why does a male majority military infrastructure of decision makers allow these inequities to be, ever come to be and let alone "still" persist? I would naively think a headship of biased women were making these policies alone, with these outcomes being what they are...

Able_Ad_3354 · 2021-02-14T23:41:33+00:00

Women serve in the military and got to the frontline equally. Men equality, they get paid more than women.

PeonSupreme · 2021-02-15T03:11:29+00:00

The feminist response is always, “Well, yeah, but men start wars, so why should we care that they die and get injured in them?” And the answer is that men start wars to secure resources for women, which is also the reason that they work in mines and factories and logging camps and fisheries and oil rigs, etc., where they also suffer deaths and injury about 10 times as often as women.

n0tqu1tesane · 2021-02-15T18:51:19+00:00

SCOTUS may address this issue.

stephy2006 · 2021-02-16T06:40:41+00:00

I agree with this but you can't listen to someone who still thinks men are the only ones who should go to war,

if people are scolded by women going to war, their being sexist, it might be hard but just ignore them, getting angry gives them power

thesmuser · 2021-02-14T12:59:38+00:00

the sad thing is that there are still a lot of countries in the West where military service is mandatory for 2 or 3 years for men, if you refuse to join the army you end up in jail and people will insult you and call you a traitor of the country or a coward. meanwhile if women join the army are seen as heroes while men are forced to lose 3 of their best years of their life in the army...

it's disgusting

2021-02-14T14:15:55+00:00

No.
Men are generally bigger, stronger, faster, more durable, can adapt easier, and deal with pain and higher stressors than women.
I'm a U.S. veteran (Medic) who has gone to war and it was a life changing experience.
I was with an Infantry unit most of my time and 99% of the women in that unit were in leadership and support roles. After that deployment many soldiers left (out of the military or transferred to another base) and we got in fresh soldiers. My unit got more female medics.
The standards for my MOS are no different for either sex.
The day I left for BCT a group of future Marines had a few females in it.
War doesn't automatically equal death.
Society IS biased at least in America regarding holding's value in life over men.
The mandatory enlistment is so outdated. Considering how a lot of people especially the Left and 'woke' crowd they would benefit from mandatory service of at least 4 years.
Other countries have it for roughly 2-3 years for everyone.
Any enemy doesn't care what sex you are, age, 'pronoun BS', etc. In war, a female soldier who get captured is far more likely to get raped than a male soldier. The problem.....is evil POS people in this world who don't value human life at all.
Biology IS the main factor in our development and in war you use the best tools and people available.

Particular-Mindless · 2021-02-14T19:39:58+00:00

Military is full of men who are terrible human being, one of the reasons and smart woman would stay away. Have you seen the reports of the amount of sexual harassment and rape cases reported by female military personnel? It’s a fucking job, and the people who take it are either those who don’t go to college, or don’t know what career path they want out of high school. If you don’t fall into that category then your probably one of the people who either likes the environment of the military (authority, guns, egos) or you are actually stupid enough to think you’re serving for your country instead of a political agenda.

zeerust2000 · 2021-02-14T09:59:56+00:00

Feminists have a standard response to this. It's "but wars are the fault of men, so they've got no-one to blame but themselves". Classic identity group based thinking, and typical of feminism. Treat 'men' as a homogenous group and assign characteristics equally to the group as a whole and to its individual members. Also rubbish, of course. More and more, I'm realising the role that linguistic manipulation plays in feminist rhetoric. It's related to the response to "men are more likely to be the victims of violence", which is "but they're attacked by other men".

Lusiric · 2021-02-14T17:55:38+00:00

Honestly, I'd prefer the army, and workplace, without women.

Has nothing to do with their being weaker, slower, etc.

Has everything to do with 90% of them are fucking useless and do nothing but cause drama. Working with women this day and age is one of the most irritating things I've ever had to do.

stliceman · 2021-02-14T05:07:12+00:00

I don't get what your point is. Do you want women in combat? Just eligible for the draft? Please explain. Thanks

That-Guy-2122 · 2021-02-14T09:31:45+00:00

To be fair tho, men are way better when it comes to army, much more efficient with less injury conpared to women, and also something weird happens the women become infertile, idk something about the stress, i think they did an article on it.

mfriend10 · 2021-02-14T11:19:01+00:00

Wait how many wars are men going and fighting on the frontline right now? Jw, no salt

McFeely_Smackup · 2021-02-14T15:02:40+00:00

I spent 10 years in the Army. The women in the Army are the ugliest bull dykes you've ever seen.

reesesfave19 · 2021-02-14T22:19:34+00:00

Maybe it’s because a man only has to ejaculate into a woman and get her pregnant to procreate, where a woman has to carry the child for nearly a fucking year? Y’all are a bunch of whiny fucking pussies on this entire sub

made_a_cake_for_U · 2021-02-15T13:38:18+00:00

This is a good example of traditionalised sexism towards men. Back in the history women were not allowed to be soldiers, in some cultures they werent even allowed to work in the first place, so men had to fight in wars. Its a gender role created by patriarchy. This is the same thing as streotypical gender roles (woman as the babymaker and man as the provider).

IgnorantEuropeanDude · 2021-02-14T13:22:19+00:00

The army is sexist to both men and women. A very low percentage of women die on duty in comparison to men. On the other hand women have a lot more to suffer from sexual harassment etc. than men.

Edit: I shouldn't have said "on the other hand" sorry. I meant that women in an army should be normalized to the point that both men and women do not get harassed and are treated equally in every other regard aswell. This includes who is assigned to what mission with a potential risk of dying.

connzerjeeass · 2021-02-14T09:15:03+00:00

You are WRONG, as you should know women are the primary victims of war and military because they lose there husbands and sons/s

mkp666 · 2021-02-14T09:13:37+00:00

Remind me which gender is typically making the choice to do so much war?

randonumero · 2021-02-14T14:02:08+00:00

Who do you think is making it that way? Look at history. Traditionally in many cultures women fought alongside men. FWIW the ability of non white males to have certain combat roles is fairly modern in the US. I also think some branches are allowing women to have combat jobs of they're capable. Many men can't carry massive pack for hours at a time and in the minds of some that's still necessary.

I want to close by saying that women have died in combat and nobody tried passing legislation to prevent it

Opiumbrella33 · 2021-02-14T07:44:43+00:00

Men are also making the majority of decisions, and hold the majority of positions of power, that decide on, cause, and profit from war.
Not to mention many women have and wanted to serve in combat. Men bitched that women weren't drafted, men bitched when women were allowed into the armed forces, and when they lowered standards for them to be able to do so. (Because women and men are biologically different) it doesn't matter what women do, men bitch about it.

SketchyPornDude · 2021-02-14T09:24:53+00:00

I understand the anger for this, based in modern understanding of what feminists call "gender inequality", but I also understand it as a practical concern. Although we're no longer hunter gatherers or a species that must fight wars to sustain its civilization, we do all still see women as more valuable than men for their ability to birth a child and raise a family. Men are stronger, more resilient in the face of war and the natural elements - they're expendable. As a man this doesn't men I want to die, no, it just means I understand why society still applies this double standard. I just accept it, it is what it is, feminists will never acknowledge it as an honourable sacrifice, in their minds only men are responsible for war, only men kill, only men are violent, they don't consider how much of what we do is to protect women and children. Just live your life, do your best, and don't let the feminists get to you, mate.

SkylineDriftin · 2021-02-14T07:39:33+00:00

Ive been seeing some military advertisements targeted towards women recently, and I disagree with you

El-Autismo · 2021-02-14T08:14:54+00:00

Idk mate.

Same as with spies, where females are expectedly better shaped (can tolerate pain and torture way better than men) society just excluded them for the biggest part of human history. It’s kinda the same as BLM in this case. They were excluded long ago without being asked. and blaming society for doing exactly what our ancestors saw as a right thing towards males as an advocation for “males are also stuck with inequality” is kinda weird to me.

To sum up: males decided that males should go to war ages ago and kept their monopoly for mass murders for millenias, there’s no point to call for social inequality towards males in this case because we’re the ones who created it in the first place and females are joining military rn, their numbers are growing rapidly

MichaelJohn33 · 2021-02-14T05:15:26+00:00

There are women in the “ArMy”. There are women in every branch of the military. Woman have fought, continue to fight, and have died in combat. I can’t even believe that you “men’s rights” freaks are real wow

GoelandAnonyme · 2021-02-14T13:29:50+00:00

Historically, women were often banned from joining in armies. Sny kind of socisl oppression will have long lasting effects. Just make the slightest bit of research before posting something like this.

https://www.history.com/news/u-s-military-lifts-ban-on-women-in-combat

https://www.historynet.com/why-not-send-women-to-war.htm

https://www.cnas.org/publications/commentary/women-in-combat-five-year-status-update

2021-02-14T06:49:53+00:00

Lol you don’t have to capitalize “men” to drive the point home. You’re on a men’s rights subreddit. People already agree with this

Samzo · 2021-02-14T09:21:24+00:00

war is of a hyper-masculine agenda. it's literally man-made. to suggest that men are victims of war is like saying men are victims of suicide. both are manifestations of literal "man" made attitudes. this is why mens issues are feminist issues.

hurith · 2021-02-14T12:22:34+00:00

I agree on the fact that men and women are biologically built differently, but I also once heard that women tend to be more mentally stronger. I wonder if the effects of ptsd can be varied between gender, would be interesting to see a study.

Just to put it out there, I understand that PTSD can happen to anyone and it is a terrible thing. I do hope that I do not offend anyone in suggesting this study, I just find gender biology fascinating.

The army is one of the best examples of gender inequality towards MEN

Comments

Olff, M. (2017) "Sex and gender differences in post-traumatic stress disorder: an update", European Journal of Psychotraumatology, 8(sup4), p. 1351204. doi: 10.1080/20008198.2017.1351204.

Title	The army is one of the best examples of gender inequality towards MEN
Author	legend0102
Upvotes	1543
Comments	337
Date	February 14, 2021 4:25 AM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/ljh80g/the_army_is_one_of_the_best_examples_of_gender/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/the-army-is-one-of-the-best-examples-of-gender.834279 https://theredarchive.com/post/834279