"Does The Wall Exist?" Yes Lady, dating options change over time.

wtknight · 2023-09-05T11:15:53+00:00

Re-flaired CMV as this post is making an affirmative claim

Willow-girl · 2023-09-05T12:27:29+00:00

Here's the thing. Most people who don't pair up by around age 30 are either unattractive or very, very picky. Neither bodes well for their prospects after age 30.

Here's another thing: people tend to take on baggage with age: excess weight, health problems (including mental), debt, kids, etc. So even the girl who started out as highly attractive may crash and burn by the time she's a mid-30s divorcee.

Finally, a third thing: Because so many women wreck their S/RMV (or have it wrecked through no fault of their own, say by developing some sort of health problem), the ones who remain relatively unscathed in their 30s have tons of options. They are the "pick of the litter" in a way that might not have been the case when they were 18 and all of their peers also enjoyed the bloom of youth. It's a lot easier to outshine your competition when you're 35!

It's like the punchline to an old joke: "I don't have to outrun the bear; I just have to outrun you!"

Quirky-Arugula-4660 · 2023-09-05T03:47:48+00:00

You don't have to date anyone you don't want to date.

Go after younger women all you want, but don't expect them to bite if you're an average guy pushing 40.

Beggers/ choosers slowly becomes true for any average person left single after their 20s, both women and men.

onion_rings_addict · 2023-09-05T03:46:55+00:00

Idk men seem thirsty at any age. When I had Tinder any swipe right would get me a match. I'm not good looking and I don't post sexy pics.

Also this feels like a threat, something like "women you need to pay attention to me now because I won't pay attention to you when you are more than 30"

well guess what, there's probably a dude that will

you know who dates single mothers? single fathers/divorced men

Sillysheila · 2023-09-05T04:41:39+00:00

Dating options do change but I don’t really believe women immediately start looking unattractive the minute they turn 30 it’s more of a slow fade out than them having grey hair, dentures, a walker and wrinkles right after 30 like some people seem make it out to be.

And to be honest, late 20 somethings and early 30 somethings are extremely similar in terms of health (no major chronic health issues for most individuals yet) and fertility and look the same. 29 year olds and 30 year olds look the same.

Yes of course though, a 45 year old woman will not have the same options and fertility as a 25 year old at all.

I would also argue men have a wall. Many young women wouldn’t want to marry a 40-60 year old guy because they’d be worried he would die very early on, and not see the kids grow up etc. men’s looks also go into decline with age (because it happens to everyone, not just women), testosterone and sex drive fade with age, and the ability for men to have healthy sperm/high sperm count fades with age. Nature is a cruel mistress.

TimeConstraints · 2023-09-05T07:34:09+00:00

I'm (62M) long-married old man, so I have no experience dating a woman not my wife for four decades. That said, a number of your postulates do not fit me.

"Most men would agree that marriage ... without kids its pointless." I don't. I've been married for 36 years without kids. We can't say "we are staying together for the kids," so we have to admit that we stay together because we love each other and can't live without each other.

Many of my work colleagues are middle-aged women, both married and single. They are fascinating, kind, funny and well-balanced people. I enjoy being around them.

There are also young women in my office. I can't relate to them. They are like aliens.

I don't know where the idea comes from that middle-aged or older women are unattractive.
Older women may be unappealing to young men, but it's the old guys that have all the chips.

I'm not dating, but the single mothers I know are attractive women who have their shit together. They work, raise their kids, and keep them at the center of their lives. I admire that.

I understand that if a woman has her kids at the center of her life, then her boyfriend will not be. Of course the same is true for a husband.

However, a woman devoted to her children speaks of integrity, and I find integrity beautiful.

lady_ven0m · 2023-09-05T04:59:59+00:00

I despise the notion of a wall because that’s literally what was drilled into me. I come from a culture/parents that wanted me to get an arranged marriage and from 23-26 they put an incredible amount of pressure on me to find a suitor without being allowed to date.

But here I am at 36 and honestly living my best life yet. I think a lot of people that know me would agree that I had a glow up post divorce and I’ve never looked better. I was definitely depressed in my younger years and didn’t have a lot of money and didn’t take care of myself as well as I do now. Frankly, I don’t really care if a wall exists or not and neither should anyone else.

Everyone ages and gets ugly. People still fuck and get into relationships until they die. Fat people do it too. I really don’t get what the big deal is, just enjoy things while they last.

InjectAdrenochrome · 2023-09-05T05:08:25+00:00

I'm really happy I found my forever person in my early 20s. I don't even want to think about trying to seriously date now. Hookups, yes, companionship, ughhhhhhh

raldabos · 2023-09-05T03:04:30+00:00

Tried tinder a few months ago now that I'm 33 and I had 6 matches which was mind-blowing to me.

ashpr0ulx · 2023-09-05T04:19:20+00:00

as a woman in my early 30s…. yes, the options change, but because the options have grown up a little. finding relationship and marriage minded men has only gotten easier the older i’ve become. the quality of men i meet now is significantly higher than what i came across in my early 20s.

YearnsToDestroySun · 2023-09-05T11:49:05+00:00

if you believe in darwinism, it's almost a cognitive dissonance to not believe in the 🧱

velvetalocasia · 2023-09-05T07:26:58+00:00

I commented this before on purple pill debate……if someone mentions „the wall“ I only think of my husbands aunti. She is well into her 70s now and on husband nr. 4, who she married within a year of nr. 3 passing. No, she is no retired model or anything, she is just a granny……but a fun one. The new husband is well off, like the others were and takes her on cruises ect.

There is no wall…..if a woman wants to find a partner, she always will.

Lookingforlove1997 · 2023-09-05T03:36:02+00:00

You’re both right. The wall is used as a psyop to shame women into lowering their standards and marrying young or staying with a guy that’s not compatible. The contemporary usage of it leans more closely to “your dms will evaporate at 30” vs “your dating options will change at 30”. This is bolstered by the fact that it’s often coupled with insults or fatalisms like “have fun dying alone with cats”, “no man wants a woman over 30”, “women over 30 are in the danger zone” etc. Clearly the intention isn’t just a neutral reminder that dating over 30 is different. It’s to vindicate men who weren’t successful dating in their 20s and to shame women into being less picky using fear.

purplish_possum · 2023-09-05T04:50:43+00:00

Aging is not linear. People can go for years looking basically the same and then age seemingly over night. For me a transition happened when I was about 48 years old. Seemingly overnight I went from looking fairly young to looking very middle age.

obviousredflag · 2023-09-05T08:42:17+00:00

It really depends on what kind of dating options. There are more men looking to build a family with a 30 yo than with a 22 yo. And if there are only 500 men per week who want to casually hook up rather than 5000, i think women can handle the drop in attention they are getting.

I know red pillers like to conjure the image of the 30something guy who never had success with women in his younger years and who then rejects "post-wall-women" to exclusively date young attractive women. That is not how reality looks like for any meaningful number of those men.

A man's love is not proportional to his investment! What kind of stupid shit is that? Explain falling out of love with a long term partner where you are invested with children, financial shared investments, and a shitload of other things the man as invested into the relationship or the woman.

Yes, most men don't like to date single mothers. But most is not all. Dating options are reduced, but again, you don't need 5000 candidates when 50 is enough to find a partner. Single mothers over 30 still have less problems finding a relationship than the average PPD-guy.

Oli_love90 · 2023-09-05T10:18:43+00:00

“Women have no remorse in rejecting men”

This sentence got me because I see this often used as an excuse to be unnecessarily cruel towards women who did not reject you. If a women is 30+ and single it’s not getting a dose of karma or punishment.

It’s not even that guys want younger women it’s the constant need to make older women the bad guy or the pathetic defeated villain that’s harmful and annoying.

Safinated · 2023-09-05T12:27:27+00:00

The very term “the wall” implies that things will cease and be prevented from changing

Excellent_Badger123 · 2023-09-05T13:31:06+00:00

I got married to a quality man as a single mother in my late 40’s 🤷‍♀️

Xennial3999 · 2023-09-05T21:33:01+00:00

Wall only exists in that women MIGHT have to drop down their chance to bag Chad/Brad for an average to above average guy. Even then it depends. Average woman's post wall life is full of possibilities that only a few men could dream of. Anything else is redpill ego cope.

Heavenonearth12 · 2023-09-05T06:02:57+00:00

Just coming back from having lunch with one of my new collague (34F Single No kid). She told me quote on quote: "Making 100k per year is kinda standard now, its not even special" then proceed to tell me how she always dated the kind of men that quick to end the relationship and she also finds her standard rising over time.

In my eye, I just find it very unattractive for a woman that are over 30 but not awared of herself and does not even think or care about what her partner may want from her. Let alone someone doesnt taking care of themself and have unrealistic expectation. It repells not only potential partner but people around you also. Unfortunately most of the encounter I have with single women around the age of 30-40 usually leave me with this impression.

As for a young man in my 20s like myself. I have a very family oriented mindset and a little bit of tradditional values mixed with gen z unique view on relationship. As open minded as possible I still find maybe the term "Wall" might have some legit argument in it, though I dont like it when men use it as something like a weapon to make women anxious about aging.

Soloandthewookiee · 2023-09-05T06:07:08+00:00

I'm very curious what is going to happen when the dudes here hit their 30s and discover the wall is a myth.

JNRoberts42 · 2023-09-05T06:59:25+00:00

dating options change over time.

Dating options change for everyone over time, we all settle down eventually. Failed relationships are part of growing up. Fortunately for women, tastes age along with them.

Unfortunately for aging men and young women, men continue to crave the attention of barely legal women. There’s the wall, right in between 40-80 year old men who pretend they have a chance with 18 year old women.

nosingaboutonreddit · 2023-09-05T06:16:27+00:00

I would think it's not necessarily age but having children. That definitely contributes to aging for a woman due to the impact it has on her body and hormones etc. It's crazy what it can do to a woman and the long term impact it can have in their health and wellbeing. Women need to be educated in this more tbh. The amount of women who are surprised and shocked about something that happened to them or changed in their body when have a kid, it's sad. One reason I'm not having any. Plus the child rearing part is mostly dumped on the woman. Lack of sleep due to the kid is also a big factor. Where I live, most women have their first kid in their late 20s and early 30s.

However men definitely age worse than women. I'm straight but definitely see more attractive women than men overall. I'm not worried at all about a wall and in fact most women I know wish it did exist because it's annoying existing outside of the house with men. I don't go out of the house thinking of sex and catching men. I think about how nice the world looks and bigger issues like climate change and Balders Gate 3. And then you're disrupted by a dribbling grinning man who wants one of your holes, as if you don't have anything else worth anything.

Make me invisible to most men (the disrespectful ones) or make women only spaces more prevalent.

Correct-Warthog-9061 · 2023-09-05T03:31:44+00:00

Alot of people, when they get to their 30s are already partnered up. I'm gonna make the assumption that that most relationship material people are already in relationships. The dating pool for women in their 30s is less by design.then you consider all of the dudes that are in their 30s still not wanting anything super long term. If we were to argue a wall exists. Then men surely hit it harder than women. Hair loss for a man is automatically -5 points. Rarely do women find balding men attractive
Marriage undoubtedly benefits men more then women. In great marriages both partners probably delight equally. How many studies do we have to look at where women are working and doing alot of the home care.

AdjectiveMcNoun · 2023-09-06T19:17:05+00:00

Many men these days don't want kids. Most of the men in my social circle don't have or want kids and are in their 30s or 40s already. Most of our friends waited until mid thirties to get married. Fertility isn't as big if a factor as you think for many men.

I didn't get married until I was in my late 30s. My husband is 9 years younger and doesn't want kids. He is the nicest, most respectful man I have ever met (he is from Egypt so he was raised differently.) He also happens to be very handsome, and is incredibly intelligent - a Fulbright scholar with a PhD in petroleum engineering. I don't really think I settled for the leftover "beta" guy that men here seem to think "older" women are left with. I waited and chose the man that is perfect to me. I am told that I'm very attractive and look 15 years younger than I actually am. I'm a former gymnast so I try to stay in shape. I am a biotechnologist who works in human organ and tissue banking so I'm quite accomplished in my own right. I don't have social media (I kinda loath tick tock to be honest, lol) and I have never used online dating. There are plenty of women in the same boat that can wait until later in life and still find great men. Two of our best friends are the same ages as us, he is 9 years younger than her, and they got married just a couple months after we did. They are both also highly educated and don't want kids. Both men are Egyptian and both of us ladies are from the Midwest US, and know 4 other couples the same way so we have a lot of jokes about what is attracting the Egyptian men to the Midwestern women, lol.

I was engaged twice before but one became an alcoholic and the other was a compulsive liar. I am not going to put up with either. I am glad I waited to find a great man. The compulsive liar was shorter than me, and I made more money than the alcoholic for the record, and neither of those things had nothing to do with the relationships ending. I knew I could do better. And I did.

El-Carretero · 2023-09-05T04:12:24+00:00

That's why it's really pointless to be arguing with females here. They don't want to accept their limitations but are quick to point out ours.

CountMandrake · 2023-09-05T05:34:42+00:00

The Wall IMO is women's look fading away + men's libido getting more "stable" after 30.

That's something no one mentions here, and I've noticed it over the years.

I'm not horny as I used to be when I was 20 something. I still enjoy sex and all but, you know... It needs to be HOT sex now, and with a good looking woman.

Banging a woman my age just doesn't cut it anymore, hell when I was 20 I could have sex all the night with some 30 years old hotties, but now? It's like "meh".

The difference is quite telling when I'm with girls in their 20's.

It's a biological thing.

Not saying women CAN'T get a man to commit to them when they are +30.

But like... Marriage is something men do only when two very rare circunstances happen at the same time...

You med a hot, young girl you have really Wild and freaky sex with

+

You're not thinking with the bigger head

Marriage, the most stupid contract you can sign as a man, happens

When you have subpar looking women and on top of that, men with lower libidos, marriage is less likely to happen, and statistics show it.

DerayRevan · 2023-09-05T04:56:15+00:00

The wall is just a woman prioritizing marriage/children as she ages, when she's 22 marriage/children aren't even in her top10 priorities but let her reach 28-30 then it's going to be her most important thing to focus on

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banned4tellindtruth · 2023-09-05T06:20:59+00:00

Women's dating options decrease with age, but don't disappear completely. It is generally easier for younger women to find boyfriends they find attractive (and who find them attractive in return) than it is for older women.

There are still older men who are interested in women their own age. But there are proportionally fewer older men looking for similar age women than there are younger men looking for similar age women.

TimeConstraints · 2023-09-05T08:38:12+00:00

I'll respond to one thing before I go to sleep. You asserted that a women can't be a complete father for a young man.

I agree. My father left when I was three. My mother tried very hard, broke her back to fill all roles but sometimes admitted she couldn't. I was fortunate to have gone into a corner of the military where I was surrounded by healthy male role models, solid men who led well and loved their families. Most of my peers had come from whole homes. I learned much of what I had missed, a little late, but OK.

c0pkill3r · 2023-09-05T09:59:11+00:00

It doesn't because I look young but I know so much more so it's way worse for guys trying to date me now. I told one of my lovers I loved him which is the truth but I can tell he likes me way more than I do him. Hopefully he soon figures out that I've told him that so he can feel as if he has any kind of power and can exit the relationship (we are fwbs) if he wishes.

Uglypostwall · 2023-09-05T10:57:16+00:00

The wall is not only about the attention of men, but also about career, parental love, friends, and society. All of these will decrease. Men are able to get rid of it because they learn it earlier. In public, people are rude to me for no reason. Parents hating me? Yes. Career? I have to hide my white hair. Dating? That's predictable, lol. The worst part is body aging. It is like a disease that makes you weaker. Men aging is better. Even my brother mocked me for it.Experience and wisdom kind of makes you unattractive.

Having kids is like end of your value

Another theory of mine is that femininity decreases with age. I believe femininity is associated with youth, innocence, and inexperience. You lose all of these qualities when you get older. Masculinity is often associated with actions and doing, while femininity is like......just existing and being.

Ladies,spend your youth carefully because it is everything otherwise your life will end

YearnsToDestroySun · 2023-09-05T11:50:39+00:00

also, I'm nearing 40 and do want another bio child. 22-38 or so I figure.

TelevisionGloomy5458 · 2023-09-05T13:16:46+00:00

Well I think this is somewhat true. As you get older, men die off or if they can date younger women, they will. So I do think that when women get older, the options become less and less.

daddysgotanew · 2023-09-05T14:26:28+00:00

Yea you can totally have kids at 50! You go gurlllllllll!

bluestjuice · 2023-09-05T14:45:19+00:00

I meeaaannn. I don’t really disagree that dating options change over time. But I also think that it’s disingenuous to claim that the metaphor of a wall wasn’t specifically chosen to indicate a rather abrupt cut-off.

They could’ve called it ‘the gradual grassy downhill slope’ but they didn’t.

Ok_Smile_60 · 2023-09-05T14:55:42+00:00

Exists for ‘normal’ men too. We bloom later, but we fall at about the same scale. Women go up first and fall off sooner, but men don’t spend an appreciably greater length of time in their ‘peak’ it just starts and ends later

TSquaredRecovers · 2023-09-05T18:34:41+00:00

I was at the height of my attractiveness in my early- to mid-thirties. And that’s also when I received the most amount of male attention. I should note that I’m a thin, conventional attractive woman. I’m in my early forties now, and still have plenty of men interested in me. It really depends on genetics and lifestyle factors.

NothingOrAllLife · 2023-09-05T19:37:32+00:00

I will say that dating options change because women are more open about not wanting causal sex.

There’s this trend here of men equating the attention women get when they are younger with the chance to get a LTR. In reality, the attention women get when they are younger comes from men wanting to have sex quickly and little to no commitment.

When women are a little older, it’s assumed they don’t want the quick sex/flings that were offered constantly in their youth. But if that stigma was gone, women would probably never notice any decline.

Honestly, even with it, I don’t think women are hurting for attention from men who would be willing to date them.

Princessofcandyland1 · 2023-09-05T20:50:04+00:00

Is there a reason you made a new post instead of commenting on her post?

Whiskeyjack1982 · 2023-09-06T01:39:07+00:00

Great post its pretty hilarious.

Its also true marriage is an absolute terrible deal for men now. Even if the guy is marrying a hot 25 year old virgin, nevermind a post wall average looking woman.

Its was already over for men and now its over for old women as well.

ManzBearzPigzIzRealz · 2023-09-06T05:47:07+00:00

I’m only going to hit on one of your points. I agree with you and I see no point in getting married if you’re not (planning on) having kids. A family isn’t two people. I’m not taking the risk of divorce and losing a ton of my money, if I’m not at least getting kids out of it.

Title	"Does The Wall Exist?" Yes Lady, dating options change over time.
Author	Mr_Vaynewoode
Upvotes	31
Comments	167
Date	September 5, 2023 2:53 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/16aca2g/does_the_wall_exist_yes_lady_dating_options/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/does-the-wall-exist-yes-lady-dating-options-change.1231378 https://theredarchive.com/post/1231378

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