If we can agree hypergamy is real

GridReXX · 2024-02-27T02:14:07+00:00

I’ve tried to point out this logic before. But it always gets dismissed.

Women are seeking the best dimorphic traits in men.

Men are seeking the best dimorphic traits in women.

A man is not settling if a woman finds her best man. She ostensibly has traits that he admires and sought out that she’s better at. Hence he is not settling.

I think it’s just that society finds the behavioral traits and outcomes women select for in men “more impressive.”

Even if they find the traits men select for in women “important too.”

“Financial ambition” is seen as more impressive (more powerful) than “caretaking and organizing.”

lolthankstinder · 2024-02-26T22:37:22+00:00

Friendly reminder that hypergamy literally means “marrying for higher status” and not “finds status attractive”. Hypergamy in its literal form is not real because women tend to be most likely to end up with men of “similar status”. However, that doesn’t mean women wouldn’t end up with men of higher status… if they could.

WilliamWyattD · 2024-02-26T22:16:23+00:00

Hypergamy is clearly pointing at something real, but exactly what the evolved instincts are that support various forms of hypergamy are difficult to say.

Windmill_flowers · 2024-02-26T22:44:58+00:00

Yes. If someone wants to view their relationship as "I am dating up", then it seems reasonable to assume the other person is "dating down". If dating down is analogous to settling.

It's a rather simplistic view of things, but we gotta call a spade a spade and stop with the mental gymnastics

CountMandrake · 2024-02-26T23:49:54+00:00

There is no greater equalizer than marriage when it comes to dating, basically because men are not willing to tie themselves for the rest of their lives with a woman who's way below them.

Men never "settle".

Men fuck down, they do not marry down.

And all the women who are married are not really settling neither, for this very reasson.

What Terpers say, correct me if I'm wrong, is that the women who indulge in casual sex when young "feel" like they are settling when they get married later in life because when it comes to casual sex, women can aim way above their paychecks, and often do, banging good looking men who have no intention of commiting to them and whom women couldn't get by other means than offering free, no strings attached sex at demand.

In reality, nobody "settles" because people get married to partners who are their equals. But women can "feel" they are settling when comparing their partners to past (casual) lovers.

MongoBobalossus · 2024-02-26T22:14:53+00:00

“Let’s assume that [x] is real…”

This sounds like Ben Shapiro wrote it lol.

nemma88 · 2024-02-27T01:36:31+00:00

I don't believe hypergamy means getting someone above you; only that you'll go for the best you can get, and what is 'best' to one individuals values may be different than that of anothers.

And that men also go for the best they can get, but their pool of values have some differences.

Practically if only men 'dated down' then the best women and worse men would be perpetually single. More likely I believe this thinking comes from men overvaluing men, to the point they see a mens worth as inheritly more valuable.

Or I've argued before the things that men value in women (and date 'up' in) are conveniently left out of the hypergamy conversation.

KungFooCat · 2024-02-27T08:40:50+00:00

I think about this topic a lot. Mostly in relation to looks, but also could use socioeconomic status as well.

I am maybe a 4 or 5 in looks on my best day, but my wife of 13 years is legit a 10/10. She’s an absolute smoke show who catches stares everywhere she goes. She’s extremely strong willed. Dedicated to fitness. The absolute best mother a man could ever hope to have for their children and yet she chose me and continues to stay with me.

As for socioeconomic reason, I came from an extremely poor family and my career will never make me rich.

I say all this to say, I literally have zero idea why she chose me or continues to stay with me. I feel I am extremely blessed.

The topic of who looks better comes up jokingly sometimes, but she is too nice to actually say it.

Safinated · 2024-02-26T22:39:40+00:00

No, because a good proportion of marriages and relationships aren’t hypergamous

waffleznstuff30 · 2024-02-27T01:52:57+00:00

It may be for a small percentage of women who are legit marrying or dating to improve her social status. I would say it's a very small percentage but it is true and once they get what they need they dip. Its sad.

Most people date and marry for love. Legit genuine love. And love can't be quantified or datafied or whatever because it doesn't make sense. You hear cliches like when you know you know. Because it is something that just happens everything makes sense and that's what it is.

Tobor_Xes240 · 2024-02-26T22:36:51+00:00

If we can agree hypergamy is real

Then does that empirically mean that all of a man’s choices are inherently settling?

As with simping and vidya for men, women can recognize a pattern of hypergamy and curb it to ensure their partner is equally invested in a lasting relationship.

Everybody settles when they enter an LTR: dorky, retrognathic men move to Manila to find a cute, petite, and respectful wife. Those same women endure a pasty, skinny fat American man because his remote salary is calculated for US COL and/or the prospect of a visa.

In this scenario, the Filipina’s family and ex(es) consider her to be “settling” but she’s upgrading her lifestyle to American housewife!

untilfurthernotic3 · 2024-02-26T22:39:15+00:00

I’d say it is definitely real for casual sex

GreiratTheUndead · 2024-02-26T22:51:58+00:00

Hypergamy is monogamy.

A woman can only look up to one man at a time abd she’s loyal to that man until she isn’t and starts looking up to another man and so on.

Geselshaft · 2024-02-26T23:01:54+00:00

Everyone settles because people change what they like over time and humans were never supposed to be monogamous.

But certain stupid religions push this soul mate garbage in direct violation of human biology.

Otherwise no one would ever break up after their first partner.

And if women aren’t hypergamous, they absolutely are gold diggers. Biologically. Hyperventilating is increasing and maintaining social status, a primarily human cultural invention.

Biologically, women engage in mate selection so they will always want the best of they choose, or most dominant male if they don’t choose.

That’s it. It’s not complicated. Women want, and are driven, for the best, socially they are trying to climb the cultural hierarchy, and they gold dig resources for better reproductive success of their children.

Women, of course, will disagree because they are terrified of seeming shallow (why I don’t know), it’s a biological drive, they would have to actively choose to ignore it, such as mating for resources (Jane Austen style).

victinibro · 2024-02-26T23:27:09+00:00

Going by the dictionary definition hypergamy is the tendency of women to date/marry across and up socioeconomic status. That's pretty much true in most cases. You'll rarely see women dating/marrying down.

However, in the vast majority of cases, when a woman is significantly up in socioeconomic status, the man is dating up in looks. So he isn't exactly settling. For a relationship to form, both partners have to get what they prioritize. If a man ranks above the woman in everything, he can easily get sex from her with little to no investment, he won't offer her commitment.

DarayRaven · 2024-02-27T04:28:32+00:00

Then does that empirically mean that all of a man’s choices are inherently settling?

No because that would imply men are just as selective as women

Soloandthewookiee · 2024-02-26T22:29:31+00:00

Hypergamy as red pillers use the term? No, it's just an excuse to villainize women no matter who they date.

Queasy_Bit952 · 2024-02-26T22:22:30+00:00

Even granting the premise, it doesn't mean men necessarily settle. Settle only means something for that individual. So, if a 6 woman always chooses an 8 man, and never below that, and a 5 woman chooses a 7, never below, then literally the best a 7 man can do is a 5 woman. There is no settling because there is no option better.

What's necessarily true in the assumption of women hypergamy is that 'equal' value is impossible. So maybe don't hold so tight to that idea of hypergamy if you are a 7 and think a 5 is beneath you because you will necessarily be wrong by your own premise.

Eastoss · 2024-02-26T22:31:56+00:00

That'd only be true if men had the same goals, needs and incentives as women. Which is an absurdity.

If you mean not status or money, but looks, then yes, that means men are settling.

BlueParsec · 2024-02-26T22:58:03+00:00

The desire of hypergamy is always there. However, the zero sum nature of mating means it can't always be actualized.

Inherently every man wants a perfect 10, biologically multiple perfect 10's are even better. Every woman always wants the most powerful man in the world, but not all of them can get resource commitment from him.

So yes, the highest value men and women always settle.

Opening_Tell9388 · 2024-02-26T23:41:56+00:00

All humans are hypergamous.

FreitasAlan · 2024-02-27T04:28:17+00:00

They’re both settling in that sense. Wanting is free.

The difference is women get to have sex with the “higher quality” men she didn’t get to commit if she wants to. And she might think that’s her actual level before she’s dumped a dozen times. Men get nothing from the platonic “higher quality” women he admires. He only wanted them.

When these two meet, she has sex with many “higher value” men although she got no commitment. And he got nothing. And now he has to invest a lot for what many other people got for free. And he’ll question whether this is really worth it.

Another relevant difference is sex with a woman has more value that sexual with a man in biological terms. Eggs are rarer than sperm. The minimal female parental investment is also much higher. Women are taking much more risk than men in casual sex. So she gets to be pickier. She can give this rarer sex while he needs to give sex and something else to make that equitable. That something else is what makes things “hypergamic”. And once again he might think it’s not worth providing this something else.

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Love-Is-Selfish · 2024-02-26T22:43:12+00:00

It only means men are settling if a woman’s value or worth to a man is only her socioeconomic class.

Also, I don’t think hypergamy is real in the way proponents of it mean.

MyLastBestChance · 2024-02-27T00:03:59+00:00

If a short rich ugly man marries a tall hot less rich woman, they are both equally famous, which one is hypergamous? (Billy Joel / Christie Brinkley as an example)

apresonly · 2024-02-27T00:24:19+00:00

men themselves say what they value and what women value are different

the same men women might consider high value might not be the men who are the hottest or whatever men's values would say the high value man is

so no, this doesn't work

Teflon08191 · 2024-02-27T02:51:27+00:00

Settling implies you're getting less than what you wanted, which I don't think intrinsically applies to men who "marry down".

DarayRaven · 2024-02-27T05:16:38+00:00

Then does that empirically mean that all of a man’s choices are inherently settling?

His only setting if his above her perceived SMV

Nomaaaad · 2024-02-27T05:39:16+00:00

If we’re talking strictly in socio-economic terms, then yes, I suppose they are settling. But men and women value different things. I’m sure the successful lawyer marrying his hot, loyal, loving secretary doesn’t think he’s settling, even if he makes 100x her salary and is way higher on the social totem pole than her

CraftyCooler · 2024-02-27T06:37:55+00:00

I do not think that men and women differ that much in what they value for their long term partners. Men value looks and personality(intelligence, education are included in this category), women also care a bit more about material status of their partner but it is not always the case. It is a rare case when successful lawyer is marrying good-looking hs dropout, more likely he will marry other lawyer or someone like teacher or remain single.

Freevoulous · 2024-02-27T12:52:22+00:00

No, because men are not hypergamous. It would make zero evolutionary sense. Sperm is cheap as dirt.

Men are naturally inclined to polygyny (or to be precise, henogyny). Focus on one main partner (at a time), but opportunistically spread the seed wherever. There is no settling, because there is little to no gain in male monogamy, other than temporary boost to child rearing.

Hypergamy in men would only made sense if men got pregnant, like male seahorses.

obviousredflag · 2024-02-27T18:51:55+00:00

Like just using basic logic, if one side is only dating people above their stature then that means the other side is always settling.

Basic logic: if men start out dating 18-21 year olds when they are that age, who are the youngest and hottest they will ever date, doesn't that mean that any woman older than that whom they date when they are older themselves, or marry later, or a young partner they marry but which grows old with them, automatically means that the man is now settling because he is married to a woman who is less hot than the women he previously dated?
How are you not settling for your 40yo wife, if you ever dated a 21yo?

hearyoume14 · 2024-02-28T02:59:12+00:00

I’ve always heard settling (on) as a synonym for choosing (to close a relationship) myself.

It depends on what his goals and desires are. If he wants a pretty wife who is skilled in the feminine arts and is able to take care of herself but allows him take over then her earnings are irrelevant. How is it settling if he gets what he prioritizes?

Men don’t care about women’s salaries that much and honesty unless someone has cool/interesting job who cares all that much about the specifics anyway?

Tall_Simple7307 · 2024-02-28T05:35:05+00:00

Hypergamy is monogamy... of course it's real.

Wouldn't you also want to settle down with your best option?

Comprehensive-Bed35 · 2024-03-02T11:04:13+00:00

I’ve always dated up as a man, and that hasn’t worked out too well. I dunno.

Title	If we can agree hypergamy is real
Author	Raii-v2
Upvotes	26
Comments	190
Date	February 26, 2024 10:09 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1b0ueqy/if_we_can_agree_hypergamy_is_real/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/if-we-can-agree-hypergamy-is-real.1246525 https://theredarchive.com/post/1246525

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