Is the gender war mostly zero sum?

Dull-Laugh-4037 · 2023-08-05T17:28:45+00:00

In my opinion women have been dominating the gender war the last 10 to 20 years. But mostly because, guys haven't been pushing back at all. But now with years passing, I think guys are sick of the whining and incessant complaining and finally barking back.

At the end of the day, I think it's important for genders to understand and recognize their inherent differences (though feminists for a while have tried to claim everyone is exactly the same and gender is a social construct). Once we seek to understand and listen, we can both learn to find peace among one another.

63daddy · 2023-08-05T13:56:43+00:00

In the U.S., feminists have won many laws that discriminate against men in job hiring, business ownership, education, healthcare, domestic violence handling, etc. Congress recently decided to continue to exempt women from selective service registration. Family law is biased against men. Criminal sentencing is lighter on women.

It’s clear which sex is losing the gender war.

lolthankstinder · 2023-08-05T13:37:49+00:00

Definitely a zero sum game, feminists like to talk equality while tearing down male privilege while increasing womens

Ikem32 · 2023-08-06T07:42:18+00:00

The rich are winning the game.

CornellWest · 2023-08-05T15:22:39+00:00

There's too much fraternizing with the enemy to call it zero sum.

szclimber · 2023-08-05T15:23:14+00:00

There is no war. The laws simply protect women more and give them an advantage.

c0pkill3r · 2023-08-05T22:49:51+00:00

It's supposed to be the opposite of war. Please stop listening to Andrew Tate lol.

januaryphilosopher · 2023-08-05T13:09:54+00:00

Very few people are actually opposed to everyone of the opposite sex. It can't be a war with this level of mixing between "sides". We're largely helping each other, not hurting.

Ill_Inspection5225 · 2023-08-05T13:14:19+00:00

People who spend too much time online engaging with pill content/misogynist/misandrist content are essentially cutting of their nose to spite their face.

The gender war online is largely perpetuated by grifters who just want men to resent women and buy their course on how to become an alpha and sleep with lots of women.

If you look beyond the west the gender war is very much against women, eg. FGM, honour killings, child brides, Afghanistan recently forcing women to quit their jobs, women in Iran are denied healthcare unless they wear the hijab. Those issues deserve a lot more attention than guys on a podcast whingeing about who pays on a date.

kkkan2020 · 2023-08-05T14:30:50+00:00

The current top responses are blue pilled to the max. In all honesty, It's a power struggle that has several intermingling dimensions that leave both men and women screaming through the void out of desperation with arguments, statistics, machiavellianism,with the sole understanding that the entirety of mating strategy for both sexes is amoral, you have to just accept that and play the game the best you can.

The reality is this: men and women are built different physically and mentally, and optimized differently. Post modernist blank slate theory has convinced the political world that we are both the exact same, with the only difference being upbringing and environment. Women are trying to emulate male behavior and failing miserably, and men are trying their own version of this with better successes in the long run, but with the loss of their true nature as men. I mean, look at hookup culture and how women, despite pretending to be able to handle emotional detachment from sex, constantly trying to fuck their way into a relationship, embodying a parallel of the nice guys they pretend to hate, emotionally manipulating themselves into believing they've somehow been used because their innate machiavellianism failed them this time, thus causing irreparable damage to the psyche of women. Look at these guys taking the advice of women and basically becoming a woman in a man's body with the ridiculous amounts of looksmaxxing, becoming nothing more than an accessory for women, only to be discarded at a moments notice. These men who look like men but don't actually act like them, putting on muscle mass, optimizing diets, it's sterile, and a caricature of what it means to be a man.

You should read some OG red pill content One thing you'll realize as a man dating and hooking up with women is that, at the end of the day, we cant both have what we want at the same time. One of us has to take an L, or be lucky enough to where we find a relationship where we're both on the same page. This is where the idea of settling stems from. Not everybody will be able to land their forever relationship with the person who fucked them the best, was the most physically appealing, most financially well off etc. Ideas behind innate worth are frankly worthless with which we discard each other so easily. And in my observation, and despite what progressives harp on about all day about power imbalances, many relationships are overt power imbalances towards women. Seeing these relationships play out with my friends and family makes me never want to compromise, and I'm sure the women who see the opposite feel the same way.

This struggle has been known by every great mind who ever wrote anything down, it's a known cultural trope that has all types of media played out with the very theme that love is war, it's never ending conflict. There's a reason why the feminist leaning humanities within academia discard classical literature as nothing more than the musings of old white men, and you'll notice that the analysis within the institutions that produce the minds that influence our media are extremely biased towards only the female point of view. But if you really pay attention to how reality plays out, you can see all the parallels of old world knowledge, and realize that the red pill itself is not necessarily an ideology, but a praxalogy and nothing new, thus allowing you to create your own sexual morality and live on your own terms. The conventional morality being pushed upon most people only really exists to benefit outside parties. Women want men to simp for them, but we all know how that turns out. Men want women to be submissive to them, again, we know where that goes. Very few women are worth simping for, just as very few men are worth being submissive for.

My final say is that at the end of the day, the culture war is a soft power laden conflict in which weak people are trying to create a world, through institutional influence, that benefits them. Of course women want favoritism in the work force, in pay, in sports, all despite a very obvious lack of output that matches men on average, of course they want to just automatically be given these positions without the merit. Merit is the antithesis to female centric egalitarianism in many regards. Of course men want a society that favors them all getting a designated woman in order to keep the wheels churning, despite them having, and especially in this day and age of modern medicine keeping entire populations alive that would have otherwised perished in early childhood, dysgenic physical and social existences. These male female egalitarian social systems benefit their respective constituents, because left to their own devices, truly, only a few people would be able to rise through dominance hierarchies with very little institutional and social help, and create the reality they want.

Ayaka_Simp_ · 2023-08-05T17:06:25+00:00

Yes. This is what 99% of you fail to understand. The inevitable result is an unhappy and lower quality of life for EVERYONE. Including you. Yes, you. We should be building each other UP. Not tearing each other down. Instead of attacking feminist or red pillers or incels... help them. Because it helps society and everyone dating.

the_calibre_cat · 2023-08-06T15:21:50+00:00

Yes.

On the flip side, those of us who don't have brain worms understand that gender cooperation is mutually beneficial.

WilliamWyattD · 2023-08-05T13:05:31+00:00

In general, I do not think it is a zero sum game if you look at the big picture enough. Or, depending upon how you look at it, there are some equitable and stable compromise positions that are actually better for both genders than whatever 'total victory' for either would look like.

That said, the great unresolved question is how sexually selective women are--in a hardwired way--as material need for men trends towards zero. If women are selective enough then there could be some zero sum kind of tension between enough men wanting an intimate partner and women not wanting to be with men they find sexually repulsive.

giveuporfindaway · 2023-08-05T18:52:16+00:00

Yes zero~sum. The only cultures producing at replacement level birth rates with an economy above $5,000 USD annual income are authoritarian cultures that restrict women's rights: Orthodox Jews, Fundamentalist Christians. There is no pro woman's rights culture that is reproducing at replacement or above replacement levels. Women either need to submit to less rights or have their genes die off. Most women seem to be happy with the latter. So 95% of the current human genetic pool will die off.

I_can_get_loud_too · 2023-08-06T00:19:58+00:00

I agree with all of this in the original post. Would give you an award if I could.

Independent-Mail-227 · 2023-08-05T14:00:08+00:00

Yes, with finite resources you can't benefit one side without shit on the other.

Then the losers, be they men or women, just have to accept the society they end up in.

The problem is that only one gender keeps the society as we know running.

For a woman she only need to birth new citizens from upstanding men and today society keeps running. It's something any woman can do.

In the men side you need a whole group of driven men willing to be cannon folder and dirt their hands doing the most dehumanizing jobs know to mankind all while being civil upstanding citizens. This is something only a feel select men will do.

Women have absolutely no chance to win the gender war in the long run.

ta06012022 · 2023-08-05T15:48:09+00:00

What gender war? The vast majority of people are just living their lives. The only "war" out there is between fringe actors from both genders.

wtknight · 2023-08-05T14:39:58+00:00

Sex for resources was never a zero sum game. Both sides benefitted. Women might not like prolific sex as much as men, but if they are with the right man then they enjoy it. Men might not fully enjoy having to work harder for resources and status to impress women, but having that sense of accomplishment independent of sexual reward can be satisfying for them.

Women being able to survive independently from men kind of messes things up for men who don't have as much to offer compared to higher value men. This is the main issue in today's dating world that creates conflict. While it's good for women since they do not have to endure lower value or abusive men like they did in the past, it creates problems for men who cannot adapt to the new reality and improve themselves to what women actually desire.

Det_Steve_Sloan · 2023-08-05T15:30:09+00:00

What 'gender war'? Men are superior to women on every conceivable level. All chess champions are men. All comedians are men. Right off the bat, more intelligent and witty.

All successful generals are men.

Men invented everything.

Men are physically stronger.

The only 'war' is a war between conservatism and liberal rot, where a crazy idea that women, who are in a halfway house between child and adult, are the equal of men.

kkkan2020 · 2023-08-05T14:22:00+00:00

One side will be the victor... There is no conflict or game where both sides win

GYN-k4H-Q3z-75B · 2023-08-05T14:23:35+00:00

It's not. Feminism as it exists now wants to tear down every structure, not just the old perceived patriarchy. If the gender wars continue, we will all just end up alone in sensory deprivation tanks with virtual reality masturbation devices hooked up to social credit chips that they control.

Even being a woman is problematic now. Everything is.

TSquaredRecovers · 2023-08-05T17:46:16+00:00

Why is women wishing to achieve equality in society and enter into egalitarian relationships viewed as a “gender war”? The only people who view this as problematic are men who fear losing their privileged status of being totally in control—both in the workforce and at home. If you’re used to being the top dog in all facets of public and private life, then equality is going to feel like oppression.

Preme2 · 2023-08-05T13:29:24+00:00

A gain for one side is a loss for the other.

No.

A gain for women is a benefit to society. A gain for men is a direct hinderance to women.

TSquaredRecovers · 2023-08-05T17:46:11+00:00

Why is women wishing to achieve equality in society and enter into egalitarian relationships viewed as a “gender war”? The only people who view this as problematic are men who fear losing their privileged status of being totally in control—both in the workforce and at home. If you’re used to being the top dog in all facets of public and private life, then equality is going to feel like oppression.

InjectAdrenochrome · 2023-08-05T14:16:00+00:00

I think women will probably lose the gender war fairly soon. What with roe v wade being overturned and more women having kids they don't want.

I think the next target will be no fault divorce being challenged in red states.

Wolvengirla88 · 2023-08-06T01:25:28+00:00

The idea that “differences that will never be the same” means “battle for control”.

ace52387 · 2023-08-05T14:07:25+00:00

Zero sum to describe this fails on a fundamental since one of the major outcomes is sex and babies, which is added value.

Why is it a war…this seems like a totally inappropriate analogy from the start. If anything a marital spat would be a way better analogy.

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send_nudibranchia · 2023-08-05T17:32:32+00:00

Many things in life are this way. Every winner has a loser. Every yin, a yang. Every mountain, a valley. Good and bad. Buyers and sellers. A scam artist and a sucker. Violence and peace. Tops and bottoms. Individual gain vs societal gain.

Wars, including gender wars, are destructive. Even wars where you are the victor and reap a reward come with a broader societal cost that reverts us back to animals.

Both sides want something that is zero-sum, but a relationship isn't one decision, it's millions of little compromises from both parties that, collectively ensure society (and those in the relationship) are as a whole better off through stability than if they were alone for the remainder of their life.

It's why cheating while in a relationship is bad. It's choosing steal instead of split. It's one person putting their immediate happiness above their partners and expecting them to be ok with being robbed physically and/or emotionally.

And it's why treating the opposite sex (and obviously we're talking cis, hetrosexual relationships here) as rival only and not someone with a shared goal of survival, stability, and happiness is so destructive.

And it's why men and women who aren't not taught empathy for the other sex end up jaded and angry.

It's why sexual equality isn't in stasis. It's men and women taking Ls at various points so the other takes a W. At its core it's a dance of politics - people haggling until they strike a fair deal always, forever, at various intensities.

And being a man or woman searching for a relationship is about tradeoffs, discipline, and having the maturity to know when you're getting a raw deal instead of a fair deal.

War is only inevitable if we choose to make it so. A war doesn't end all wars, but merely delays the next. Politics, compromise, and democracy, alternatively, is the only true way to avoid war.

And recognizing this, truly understanding that men and women don't have to be destined to be highly polarized, is something we as a society have a collective responsibility to encourage.

Dunkman83 · 2023-08-05T19:27:41+00:00

its not sustainable in this economy

esdebah · 2023-08-06T11:03:19+00:00

Wars are always zero sum, ya dingus. You're thinking of games.

Darth-Zoolu · 2023-10-04T12:59:55+00:00

Men are not waging a gender war. If we were the war would be over already.

Title	Is the gender war mostly zero sum?
Author	Odd_Green_3775
Upvotes	38
Comments	199
Date	August 5, 2023 12:55 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/15iv04z/is_the_gender_war_mostly_zero_sum/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/is-the-gender-war-mostly-zero-sum.1227651 https://theredarchive.com/post/1227651

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