Men don't have fragile masculinity. Masculinity itself is fragile, just as Femininity is.

Peeloin · 2025-04-21T14:08:29+00:00

Some people are fragile, I don't think it has anything to do with how masculine or feminine they are as those are arbitrary attributes.

Good_Result2787 · 2025-04-21T14:03:26+00:00

I can sort of see your point, but this appears to make the case that basically "all men are at once equally fragile/resilient" as one another'-Schrödinger's masculinity or some such. Do correct me if I've misinterpreted you, though. My only contention being that I definitely see stark differences in confidently masculine vs. insecure when I view other men.

To be clear, I don't judge them for this necessarily except whatever values I might make in my head as we all do, but I don't think every person is just equal when it comes to levels of fragility vs. resilience. We see it play out all the time.

justdontsashay · 2025-04-21T14:10:39+00:00

You seem to think masculinity and heterosexuality are synonymous. They’re not.

The masculinity that’s fragile is the performative type. Men who feel they have to display their masculinity are the least secure in it, so obviously that sense of masculinity is easy to shake.

Outside_Memory5703 · 2025-04-21T15:32:31+00:00

Masculinity is based on actions, femininity is generally not

So it is more “fragile”

Better_Blackberry835 · 2025-04-21T15:38:13+00:00

I can tell your own view of yourself is fragile just based on your arguments. Not even just your masculinity

When man does have masculinity, said masculinity is status which is vauable. And masculinity is easy to lose, because as quote says... "If a man builds a thousand bridges and sucks one dick, they don't call him a bridge-builder... they call him a cocksucker."

You can spend decades building up a status, and one fuckup is enough to destroy that status.

The circumstances under which this is true involve some amount of the following:

building a life that isn’t authentic to who you truly are, as once the first crack starts showing the rest of it tends to fall apart because it was held together by the duct tape that is the ego
surrounding yourself with disloyal/social climbing/personality disordered people, as once they start seeing you aren’t all white they start seeing you as all black
extreme and unrelenting insecurity + perfectionism, which assumes that you have to be perfect to be liked. And when you aren’t, it also assumes it has to fall apart and self destructs under little pressure

Your anecdotes fall under those 3 categories. 1 for George Michael, 3 for AOC.

Let me out myself so you know where I’m coming from. I HAVE climbed the social ladder multiple times in my life. I have also had it fall apart multiple times, largely due to insecurity and inauthenticity.

As I’ve become more secure in myself, I’ve handled being at the top of the food chain a lot better. I laugh off my mistakes and openly show them, I accept competition with open arms and invite people to the top, and I generally socialize across the hierarchy without fear.

In my more recent social circles, I can make huge mistakes, own up to them and still stay at the top. That’s because I lead with authenticity, I discard disloyal/insecure friends with impunity and I don’t care if I’m seen as imperfect. What’s fucked up is all of these things actually make people see me as more perfect, which reinforces my social position.

I’m currently in the process of climbing the social ladder in a Salsa class. I’ve already made a social faux pas in not being sexually assertive enough with one of the hottest chicks in that class, which lead to my sexuality being questioned.

Throughout that entire thing, I didn’t clarify my sexuality or open up further as a defense. I have openly showed my contempt with the games and have largely discarded a few people who played into it. I have expressed my emotions on the situation and said it made me anxious as hell to come back.

And you know what? It improved my social standing in the class. I’m getting serious attention from the hottest chicks in there, I’m getting more respect from the men and the rest of them are correcting themselves in my presence. All it’s going to take is me coming back and getting better for my position at the top to be solidified.

That’s because my masculinity can be challenged without me taking it personally. I don’t need everyone to like me, and I honestly prefer a few of them to hate me because that ALSO indicates a higher social status (because who gives a shit about the bottom of the food chain). Above all, my positive view of myself will shine through their negative views of themselves/others and it only draws them in further with something like “what the fuck does he have that lets him disregard something that would’ve crushed me?”

I think it’s really easy to see masculinity/feminity as fragile if your own masculinity/feminity is fragile. It’s called projection and everyone does it. The truth is that it’s really only fragile if you are 🤷

chocobolamo · 2025-04-21T19:10:16+00:00

It's the cat and mouse game. Women emasculate as a test, men either pass or fail. Women choose to settle for an emasculated rat that pays their bills or they find chad who won't be emasculated.

But when a masculine man holds his masculinity and does not become emasculated, she has no recourse other than to be feminine. It's just biology. She will fight, lose repeatedly, and then go "wait i cant win because hes right" and be her happy bubbly self. This is the art of containment.

Masculinity provides containment for the others around himself. It hasn't changed from apes. You will see the same behaviors among primates. We haven't changed.

Stergeary · 2025-04-21T22:49:14+00:00

How I see it, is that masculinity is built up, and femininity is worn down. Women go through puberty and their femininity is given to them for free at the height of their youth, and they just have to maintain it. The action of estrogen gives them all the things innate to their traditional value as a woman -- motherhood, smooth skin, curvy bodies, and everything else. Not everyone gets these in equal measure, but generally you don't have to work to get your femininity, but it basically peaks and once you become an adult, you have to maintain it by avoiding bad decisions and harm -- unhealthy diet, lack of exercise, insufficient sleep, physical injuries, emotional hurt, etc.

Masculinity however, is something you have to work on. Testosterone gives you strength and drive as you go through puberty, but just "being strong and motivated" doesn't automatically give you success in life as a man. You have to use that strength and drive to build physical fitness, social connectedness, financial stability, a charismatic personality, aptitude, experience, and emotional stability in some combination -- and that is what people are actually attracted to. So the reason why masculinity appears fragile, is because every man -- no matter how successful -- are still in the process of improving some aspect of their masculine self. It's not a filled-up gauge like femininity where you experience yourself at your 100% and then it goes down over time. Masculinity is a never-ending struggle to strengthen these pillars. And especially to those who have not been able to build up these masculine aspects, their masculinity is going to be as fragile as a woman reaching 35 who gets called "ma'am" for the first time in her life.

BrainMarshal · 2025-04-22T00:36:36+00:00

Nobody was calling AOC fragile, insecure for feeling that way. Her status was threatened by a lie, and there are real life consequences for losing status.

Insecurity in women is forgiven. Insecurity in men is demonized.

HammieFondler · 2025-04-21T14:09:12+00:00

If your status as a man comes from convincing people that you never feel fear or insecurity then yes, your masculinity is fragile. If your status as a man comes from convincing people that you sometimes feel "un-manly" emotions but do your best anyway, then it will be a lot harder to knock you down.

Take Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, a woman which is considered high class and virtuous. And she felt traumatized after seeing deepfake porn of herself.

She didn't feel traumatized because she was thinking "oh no what's gonna happen to my status." She felt traumatized because she saw her body on screen performing sex acts that she didn't consent to.

Think_Reporter_8179 · 2025-04-21T14:26:39+00:00

Real masculinity is doing what you want without caring what other people think about it. Sitting around worrying that someone might think something bad about you because you cried at something, or sucked a dick, is what weak people do. Live your life, stop giving a fuck about stupid concepts like masculinity and femininity.

There, now you can live a more peaceful life. Enjoy.

Siukslinis_acc · 2025-04-21T14:25:28+00:00

I liked how one author made 3 categories: maleness, masculinity and patriarchal masculinity. The problem is with patriarchal masculinity, whose one of the defining features is the fear of feminine.

The author made a series of essays about patriarchal masculinity, how it damages males and what men and women can do to fight against it. Part 1, part 2, part 3, part 4, part 5.

attendquoi · 2025-04-21T14:29:11+00:00

What evidence do you have that men are all equally fragile in their masculinity? My husband is decidedly non-fragile and does not worry about whether someone perceives him as masculine, because he thinks less of the people who judge that kind of thing.

PrideAndPotions · 2025-04-21T14:46:49+00:00

Masculinity is like courage. It is not never fearing anything. It is acting despite the fear. Masculinity is not being free of insecurities. It is being yourself as a man despite insecurities and not being defined by the insecurities. This goes for feminity, too: being yourself despite your insecurities. The rest is window dressing that changes with time and culture.

Sorcha16 · 2025-04-21T14:22:41+00:00

You example sucks. The porn star consented to being in porn. AOC didn't. It's not status being affected it's seeing someone use your likeness without consent in porn.

MongoBobalossus · 2025-04-21T14:13:59+00:00

This doesn’t sound like fragile masculinity, this sounds like being closeted if you’re worried about sucking a dick and ruining your reputation.

im_rarely_wrong · 2025-04-21T14:34:21+00:00

Fragile masculinity is just a term thrown around to shut down men who express their preferences. A woman wanting 6' guy is a woman that knows her worth, but a man that refuses to date an OF girl, is insecure and has a fragile masculinity. Masculinity prevents women from controlling men and that's why women hate it, but in the end who do they fuck? Hyper masculine men who are borderline abusers. There's no such thing as a fragile masculinity, you're either masculine or not. Sucking a dick is gay and that's feminine and unmanly. Everyone knows it but this generation loves to strip away words of their definitions, so now masculinity is whatever you want to call it, which nobody believes in outside of Reddit.

alwaysright0 · 2025-04-21T14:17:57+00:00

Your examples are awful

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Updraft999 · 2025-04-21T14:41:58+00:00

I don't think femininity is fragile at all. Femininity is oftentimes defined by the lack of skill, expertise and knowledge. Throw a ball like a girl. Drive like a girl. I could go on, but in many respects, femininity is seen as an absence of prowess and proficiency. Granted you can find topics where femininity is proficient in. In the Old South, finishing schools focused on preparing girls for marriage and domestic life. These schools emphasized social graces, etiquette, and domestic skills like cooking, sewing, and music. So proficiency and knowledge in some topics is feminine, but not for the most part.

The objection to all this by progressive society lead to women being able and capable to do masculine coded things, but is still today not necessarily expected of them. For all the changes in the ideas of femininity and masculinity, girls to this day are not unattractive or less feminine if they can't throw a baseball well, and a "feminine" woman largely means the same thing. Conversely, men still look immediately ridiculous and unmasculine if they throw a ball like a girl.

So femininity can't really be "fragile" if there is nothing really expected of them to begin with and the things women were once expected of doing like domestic duties are no longer expected at all. So what is there to be fragile about? Femininity is not held against women to any standard.

Another thing to mention... Is there even a gender reversed word for 'emasculating?' When the Allies liberated France, the French women who conspired with the Nazis were shaved, stripped, and paraded naked down the street. I can see this as being the closest thing to removing or lessening the femininity of a woman.

What I find interesting is the chasm forming in two different left leaning types of people with regards to the trans issue and the seeming contradiction between striving for a society without gender norms and yet validating identifies that perpetuate and solidify those same norms.

Robot_Alchemist · 2025-04-21T14:51:07+00:00

I don’t feel femininity is fragile. It doesn’t seem to break and fall. It is always just there in the background. Maybe because it’s something that’s not really sought after and it doesn’t need praise or persistence. But it seems to be as much a part of us as is our skin

BobtheArcher2018 · 2025-04-21T16:27:17+00:00

Masculinity is not fragile; one's reputation as masculine is. Femininity is not the same. One's perception as being feminine is not that fragile at all. You can get a reputation as a slut, sure. But you are still feminine in people's minds.

chobolicious88 · 2025-04-21T16:37:10+00:00

I agree.

But thats because there are men who derive that status solely from others. And free spirited men who dont give a fuck what others think - and this type isnt always a beta who doesnt have any to begin with. This part is wrong - for the rest i agree fully

KayRay1994 · 2025-04-21T16:40:32+00:00

I…. Don’t see how seeing a deepfake porn of yourself and not reacting well to it is ‘fragile femininity’ - it’s violating as fuck and people, regardless of gender, would feel awful about it.

As for George Michael - historic context has a lot to do with it as well as how you market yourself. In other words, homophobia was still relatively common in the 90s and early 2000s and this applies to both genders. I also think if you market yourself as a masculine sex symbol and you’re caught with a man it will be a shock to your fans regardless because the fantasy you’re selling has been shattered. It was also in a public park bathroom… which, like it or not, is sleazy and creepy. Yeah that would run your image, no shit.

The most ironic thing about this post though is that you made a post talking about fragility as the norm while on one side ignoring all the context and the other attempting to make a false equivalence with genuinely disturbing material done against one’s consent (deep fake porn) - you’ve done nothing but prove yourself as fragile. This isn’t about masculinity or femininity, this is about you

Solondthewookiee · 2025-04-21T17:23:12+00:00

George Michael used to be a masculine sex simbol until somebody caught him in a restroom with just one little penis in his mouth. After that he wasn't a masculine sex simbol anymore. Atleast not for women.

George Michael very famously owned his sexuality and continued to tour and be successful. An example of fragile masculinity would be the cop who arrested him; after the arrest, George Michael produced a music video which featured cops kissing and the cop who arrested him tried to sue him.

And she felt traumatized after seeing deepfake porn of herself. Nobody was calling AOC fragile, insecure for feeling that way.

You don't understand the difference between consensual sexual acts and having fake porn made of you?

Competitive_Lion_260 · 2025-04-21T20:01:49+00:00

No, you are completely wrong. There are many men who are not bothered by fragile masculinity. At all. Guess what, that's because they are not fragile. :)

-Kalos · 2025-04-22T02:13:46+00:00

Nah some of y’all are just fragile. Imagine the overweight beta boy having more confidence than you. Get therapy

GofukYourselves · 2025-04-22T02:50:30+00:00

Masculinity isn't fragile at all it's under attack there is a big damn difference.

Schleudergang1400 · 2025-04-22T13:16:35+00:00

Take Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, a woman which is considered high class and virtuous. And she felt traumatized after seeing deepfake porn of herself.

Nobody was calling AOC fragile, insecure for feeling that way. Her status was threatened by a lie, and there are real life consequences for losing status.

Why would she be called fragile or insecure, when was wasn't concerned that her behavior would threaten how feminine she was regarded by men?

If anything society expects of men to be more in control of their emotions, especially in public. Femininity, allows or even encourages open expression of distress, especially in relation to personal boundaries and emotional harm. Her reaction added to her femininity, instead of threatening it.

atyaraqavrat · 2025-04-22T13:25:54+00:00

What fragile is ego, being feminine and masculine is opposite of fragile, it’s acceptance of the roles, it were actually.. but hate and social media attention ruined those terms and their meanings i guess.

Flightlessbirbz · 2025-04-22T18:10:05+00:00

I don’t think femininity is as “fragile” as masculinity in the sense of having to adhere to rigid rules to maintain the image and personal feeling of being masculine or feminine. As in your AOC example, that’s just an example of a human being vulnerable in response to a violation of privacy… I don’t think she feels or is viewed as less feminine because that bothered her and she was honest about it.

To compare your George Michael example, I’m a bisexual woman, and I’ve never felt unfeminine or been treated as such because I’ve had sexual encounters with women. Judged? Yes, as immoral or untrustworthy, but not as being “less of a woman” per se. Like I don’t think Chappell Roan is seen as not being feminine because she’s a lesbian, although of course, it’s not the 80s anymore either.

For women, the perception of femininity is mostly just based on looks - and yes, the pressure to look a certain way is high. We don’t have quite the same pressures when it comes to behavior, though. Is this a win for women? Not really, since most of it comes down to the fact that masculinity is seen as better than femininity, and therefore more important to preserve. But this is a double-edged sword for men.

WillyDonDilly69 · 2025-04-21T14:19:10+00:00

It is just a word to shame men when they have an insecurity, because women hate one thing the most about men.and that is insecurity (for examples paternity tests). The reality is femininity is the most fragile, they wear makeup, you can't ask them their weight/age, on first dates and in discussion women always bring the topic to not judge people because it is mean (you can judge men though), women are more known to accuse their bfs of cheating for bs reasons, guys can jokes about women but women retaliate with statements and treat it like some passive aggressive game.

Physical-Curve6141 · 2025-04-21T14:37:34+00:00

“Fragile masculinity” is just an applause sign for bitter feminists who resent men having an identity other than “dogs who exist to serve women.” The moment I hear someone use the phrase unironically, I know they’re a lolcow.

GridReXX · 2025-04-21T14:16:22+00:00

Wait what? No one was calling AOC “fragile” for that because she wasn’t expressing malignant egotistical narcissism. She was expressing feeling violated by the psychological affront, lack of agency, and disregard of consent.

I’m genuinely shocked you seem to think it was a feeling is status and not violative non-consent?

As far as the rest of your OP, “masculinity” does seem to be more limiting and thus contrived than “femininity.”

The only people I see perform femininity the way the average man performs masculinity are trans women and those “trad life” gals on social media.

WillyDonDilly69 · 2025-04-21T14:18:18+00:00

It is just a word to shame men when they have an insecurity, because women hate one thing the most about men.and that is insecurity (for examples paternity tests). The reality is femininity is the most fragile, they wear makeup, you can't ask them their weight/age, on first dates and in discussion women always bring the topic to not judge people because it is mean (you can judge men though), women are more known to accuse their bfs of cheating for bs reasons.

OrganicAd5450 · 2025-04-21T14:09:10+00:00

Most men have no trouble with dicks ending up in their mouths. There is not much else that will undo years of masculine prowess. Masculinity is not as fragile as you think. Just because men can't act like women doesn't mean they can't be human.

RapaxIII · 2025-04-21T14:19:12+00:00

Women's perception of masculinity paints it as fragile*

There are so many social expectations and mores that men have to adhere to that effectively desexes them in every context. Add on top of that women think that men's default settings are "anger and rape," and we have the messed up young men that permeate the world today, they aren't given a fair chance by their peers

TopShelfSnipes · 2025-04-21T17:39:45+00:00

Thread topic: Interesting.

Actual substance of post: Utter garbage. Extremely disappointing.

Masculinity is tied to maleness, not stereotypical traits, nor sexual orientation. There are plenty of gay dudes who define their masculinity in terms of fucking and sucking penises, and as long as they're okay with that - to each their own.

Similar to femininity, which is tied to femaleness, not to the presence or absence of pornography in the world.

A healthy notion of self is formed only through engagement with the world - self-discovery, trying things on to see what fits, and keeping what does and ditching what doesn't. This is literally the entire purpose of childhood and adolescence, which is why in Western societies we give freshly birthed humans 18 whole ass years to learn, to grow, to play, to explore, to have a cultivated educational experience, and to be generally free of the requirement to provide for themselves and their families, to form family units or select mates for long-term commitment, and preclude them from having sex with people who have crossed that barrier so they can sandbox about such potentially life altering things among peers, block them from purchasing alcohol/tobacco/firearms, and generally only allow them to drive motor vehicles under adult supervision.

That period is supposed to be used, to the greatest extent that one's upbringing allows, to form a healthy sense of self and identity that one then takes with them into adulthood once they cross that barrier, regardless of whether or not they continue their education, get a job, immediately get married and start a famliy, or decide to travel the world to broaden their horizons even further.

People who struggle with self-identity often have inhibited upbringins and have demonstrated a complete and utter lack of rebelliousness or desire to break out of that. They gravitate towards what is familiar and comfortable, because everything else seems big and scary to try as an adult, and they'd rather fail with the familiar than try something new, or even just be exposed to it.

Naturally, not everything needs to be tried to reject it, but many things do - and one who is experienced in some respects can rightly extrapolate their non-interest in others. For example, I have always enjoyed driving, I enjoy firearms, and I enjoy WW2 history. I therefore also enjoyed it when I operated operated a tank at a place that lets guests do that. I knew I'd enjoy it before I did it. Likewise, I have a lifetime of being friends with guys and never once being attracted, even if I consider some of my friends 'good looking,' and know that I have no desire for gay sex.

The people who walk through life finding their masculinity challenged by every cutting remark ARE insecure. Because a healthy sense of self isn't something that someone can take from you. And if you build your image on the reactions and the validation of others, you have build a house in sand, doomed to collapse at the first high tide or stiff breeze.

Confidence is not fragile, and that's what the people who preach "fake it till you make it" fundamentally don't understand. It's easy to see when someone is full of self-doubt.

Routine-Present-3676 · 2025-04-22T05:02:36+00:00

Really took a hard right into crazy town trying to claim AOC being upset about seeing deepfake porn of herself has anything to do with fragility and/or femininity. Wtf bro.

Title	Men don't have fragile masculinity. Masculinity itself is fragile, just as Femininity is.
Author	ThrowRA-Two448
Upvotes	24
Comments	136
Date	April 21, 2025 1:57 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1k4e5iu/men_dont_have_fragile_masculinity_masculinity/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/men-dont-have-fragile-masculinity-masculinity.1550216 https://theredarchive.com/post/1550216

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