Women who dated covert narcissists, did their narcissism get "worse" over time?

Professional-Ad-457 · 2022-01-27T07:53:30+00:00

Unbeknownst to me he had stolen my spare key at some point before we broke up. After I dumped him he would come in and take personal items when I was at work until I clocked what was happening and changed the locks 😱. We lived in different parts of a major city but even a year later I would look around nervously because he’d sometimes be standing near my road just to freak me out😱. Came back at 2am one night and I saw this fist smash through the air vent of my window 😱. Called the police, they dusted for prints, it was my ex. Found out he had a police record for GBH hence he was on their criminal database😱. He often called my landline early hours of the morning so I had to disconnect it. Eventually sent him a solicitor’s letter saying I would take further action if he carried on and he stopped completely. Randomly bumped into him on a night out a few years later. He was going bald. The only thing I said to him was ‘Hi - gosh what happened to your hair?’ then walked away. Petty af but felt good 💅

GeorgiaPeach_94 · 2022-01-27T08:49:09+00:00

Yes. You always lose.

They never get better and in fact, research says that they tend to get worse as they grow older. Eventually they might hold on to a partner when they're too old to keep finding new supply (giving the false impression that they've improved) but it's merely for utilitarian reasons, they're still as uncaring and abusive as ever.

Elena1684 · 2022-01-27T10:18:26+00:00

I’m divorcing one. His narcissism is worse because evidently his side piece isn’t as good at managing his image as I was.

These men will literally kill you. You’ll be angry and depressed. You’ll self medicate with something. You’ll need extensive dental work from grinding your teeth. You’ll live on pepto because your stomach is messed up. Your neck and back will hurt from stress. You’ll take a lot of Tylenol and miss work due to migraines.

You’ll have nightmares and won’t sleep well. You’ll go to therapy and see many doctors. They will diagnose you as a hysterical woman and send you on your way.

It isn’t sunshine and rainbows for the narc either because these people are never ever happy even if they have everything.

Platipus6 · 2022-01-27T08:51:52+00:00

The more relationships they ruin with their self-absorbed, self-victimization, blame-shifting and refusal to introspect, the more "injustices" they collect and the more neuroses they develop. You'll get to reassure them for trivial slights since the day they were born.

MissouriBlue · 2022-01-27T09:09:18+00:00

Comparing his last three victims, it gets exponentially worse with each failed relationship.

Do NOT fall for The Hoovering attempts.

They now know you well enough to be even more subtle in their abuse and more effective in the damage.

Do not risk a second round of Abuse.

LR_today · 2022-01-27T08:26:01+00:00

If someone is a narcissist there is only 1 way for them: down.

Narcissist never get better, so they either stay as bad or get worse. Always.

AC7878 · 2022-01-27T07:22:55+00:00

My narc ex played the classic victim and his ex ruined him. He was heavily insecure and was emotionally abusive and I do think I got the worst version of him but from what I heard, they only get worse.

My experience after the bu was this: he was MIA for the first 6 months of the bu, then he reaches out and offered friendship in which I immediately turned down. The less aware me met up with him and hoped for a change but his response was "I'm sorry you feel that way" THAT was a definite wake up call for me and instantly blocked him off everything. I also remember how much more arrogant and egocentric he became telling me he has changed for the better LOL (he didn't). Till this day, he seems to be stalking my socials and the one place I forgot was linkedin which I immediately blocked after I discovered he checked my profile.Then today I noticed his best friend checked so I blocked him as well. Anyways, long story short they don't change and cannot stand to lose. I definitely damaged his ego for declining his "friendship" offer which I think is leading him to do this stalking game. Regardless, I don't respond and I don't engage.

MaleficentSize · 2022-01-27T10:47:15+00:00

They don't get better with time, they get better at hiding it. They will cover their tracks by demonizing past exes or triangulating you against their female "friends" so you don't think to reach out to connect the dots.

His ex (who he kept manipulating and sleeping with 5 years after their relationship had ended) reached out to me to say they were sleeping together during our relationship, convincing her we were broken up or not that serious each time.

She was the ex he said was supposedly "crazy, abusive, cheater who's the reason why he can't trust women." She told me her side of things. Her experience sounded similar to mine: the cheating, gaslighting, mind games, silent treatments, the constant leaving then begging for her back.

After hearing my ordeal, she was shocked saying "I thought he has gotten better with you, what a psycho. He also admitted to me he cheated on the ex before me and the ex before her."

LadiesOpinion · 2022-01-27T09:07:10+00:00

Covert narcissists must protect their fragile ego at all costs. The more invested they are in you as a supply of validation, the worse their abuse will be as soon as you (threaten to) stop supplying.

They will manipulate, threaten, attempt to kick down you self esteem, play the victim, stalk you, make up lies about you and smear your reputation...

Anything they know about you can and will be used to their advantage. They'll call you endlessly through different numbers. They'll manipulate your friends and boss if they know where to find them. They'll show up at your important events unannounced. They are breaking you down so you'll come crawling back, and if they cannot succeed at that, they are punishing you.

whiskey_and_oreos · 2022-01-27T06:37:32+00:00

Yes, you will always lose.

True narcissism is a facade built up around a seed of deep insecurity and low self esteem. Every person who "abandons" them (ie breaking up) triggers a narcissistic wounding that causes them to double down on their delusions. If you run into them after a break up they'll have spun ten more stories about how you're a horrible person and they're the victim and they'll know how to quietly trigger you to make you look like the crazy one.

There's no way to be near a true narcissist and not lose yourself. Watch some of Dr Ramani's videos on YouTube if you need any more convincing.

ETA because of their insecure core, they're incapable of self reflection. This isn't someone capable of a healthy relationship because they can't see their mistakes and say "you're right, I'm sorry." Even something as simple as forgetting to run the dishwasher can trigger their mental gymnastics in an attempt to make you believe you forgot about the dishwasher and also it was your fault they forgot and also they were distracted by xyz and therefore it's not their fault.

europoor24 · 2022-01-27T10:11:56+00:00

Do not have kids with a narc they never change at all. I’m the kid of a narc and I’m only just now getting back my mental health

hyperjinxx · 2022-01-27T14:28:10+00:00

Make no mistake, Narcs of any kind, covert or not should be avoided at all costs. These people aren’t brilliant manipulators and abusers but it does come natural to them and it’s debilitating. Listen to your body. If you suspect the man you are with is a Narcissist, carefully remove yourself from the relationship and DO NOT engage after it ends. They will run a smear campaign against you, stalk you any way they can, and dedicate their sad pathetic lives to make you pay for leaving and threatening their fragile ego. Don’t give them any reaction, serve them nothing. They are dead to you now.

If you stay with them IT WILL GET WORSE. It comes in waves, one day they will make you feel like shit and insist you’re crazy, the next they are taking you out with their friends and you’re having the time of your life. Pay attention and question the bad times. It’s not normal, and they will make you think it is, but it’s not.

Additionally, DO NOT blame yourself for falling into their trap. They are dangerous for a reason. From the get go they prey on smart, empathetic, trusting women. It’s not your fault for stumbling into their web of insecurity and abuse. They have a type and they can smell it I swear, it’s disgusting.

Trust yourself, trust your gut, and trust your heart. You know deep down if something isn’t okay and keep vetting.

wakeywakeyvegetables · 2022-01-27T07:12:27+00:00

I do my best to avoid him and luckily, in the three years that we've been broken up now, I've seen him only once with his new "source" and it was from a distance. I do know that after I broke up with him, he spun the narrative and told everyone around him that I was a horrible person and awful in bed (guess who had ED from a porn addiction). Luckily, as far as I know, no one took his words to heart, since a lot of people saw how he actually treated me and I think that some of them were actually happy for me that we broke up.

However, knowing his family history and the person that his father is, I am absolutely certain that his narcissism will only get worse with time and progress could potentially be made with consistent therapy (which he will never sign up for). He is a charming person, but with all his addictions, the mask slips relatively quickly and I do hope that whoever dates him next leaves at the first red flag.

BeanBagSize · 2022-01-27T07:21:26+00:00

If someone appears to be a narcissist, no matter who they are, that flag is so dark red it's gone black. Unless you are a psychologist and they are paying you as a professional for mental help in your work setting, simply do not associate, dating or otherwise. It will destroy you, even if you're just an occasional acquaintance let alone thinking of intimacy. It's literally healthier long term to sit on a cactus. I have done both (cactus was an accident before anyone says anything, thank you muchly) and I know which one did the most long term damage. It's the only time I really pitied someone I considered what FDS calls a nvm/lvm as he was her partner

BBQCoolRanchQueen · 2022-01-27T16:29:41+00:00

It will always be a losing game. There's no cure. They get worse with age, and get worse over the course of a relationship. They operate in the same way a malignant narcissist does; the love-bombing ends some time. The compliments get less and less and the insults get worse and more frequent. They'll undermine your every move, they'll slowly sap your energy, They'll make you question your own reality and intuition. They'll get joy from watching you implode. They'll be jealous of any accomplishment.

They'll cut you off from your support network slowly by guilt tripping you about how he should be "enough" or that your "pesky" friends and family is taking up too much of your attention, for example, I was told that there should be only 2 people in a relationship, and by seeing my friends, I was somehow "involving them in the relationship", which couldn't be further from the truth because I never vented to them or even tipped them off that I was suffering.

Narcissists don't change for the better. They get worse with time.

pineapplequeeen · 2022-01-27T16:39:48+00:00

It absolutely gets worse. I went back to mine way more times than I’d like to admit but I will never do that again. I finally blocked him for good. But he got worse and worse. He got meaner. He was more judgmental. He got lazier. There is really no fixing one and it is a complete waste of your time. I am traumatized while he will just keep collecting new victims and supply. Also with narcs, they will NEVER be satisfied with anything in life. Most of them cheat, most of them lie for their own benefit but most of all, they don’t like themselves and the longer you stay, the more the ugly parts of them will shine through. I don’t know if you’re asking because your in this situation but girl, run for the hills!!!! They seriously just get worse.

spliff1506 · 2022-01-27T10:41:46+00:00

I didn’t have to run into the narc I dated to see how much he hated me. I saw it everyday towards the end of our relationship. It was a solid year and a half of hell. He would withhold all sex and affection. It really did a number on me. I had to go through a lot of therapy after I walked away from that and I also stayed single for a very long time. The blessing was I left my pick me ways behind with that relationship. I realized that being alone was infinitely better than being with anything less than a HVM. If at any point you think you might be dealing with a narc, especially a covert narc? Run, don’t walk away and never look back.

Inspection-Critical · 2022-01-27T16:50:48+00:00

Yes, it's always a losing game. They don't change. This is who they are at their core. That doesn't change without years of therapy, assuming they ever go and assuming they don't fail at it. It's unlikely they'll ever go, btw. Don't waste your time.

Regarding all your questions in your first paragraph, it honestly doesn't matter. Yes, these guys still sucked when I ran into them years later. Yes, their wives were clearly miserable.

One guy tried reaching out to me 15 years later on LinkedIn, bald as an egg, dad bod, divorced, never made a career for himself after college. When I knew him in school, he was getting DUIs and cheating on the girl he eventually married and divorced. I don't think he even graduated. 15 years later, surprise surprise, he never made anything of himself. Shocker.

I have a million stories. They don't really matter, because the guys themselves don't matter. All you need to understand is you're not crazy, and the fact you're even asking these questions means the guy you're thinking of is, by default, a horrible investment you need to cut loose. You wouldn't be asking these questions if you were dealing with a high value person. You probably don't ask these questions about your friends or job, right?

DiscombobulatedLink7 · 2022-01-27T06:29:16+00:00

He got worse and worse lol. But it’s like a wave, it comes and goes. They can’t just keep getting worse they have to cut it with kindness or you wouldn’t be hooked.

queenservingfacts · 2022-01-27T11:34:50+00:00

Yes, they worsen over time. They also worsen in response to increased healthy boundaries over time, and in my experience that timeline escalated rapidly.

You deserve so much better than a narc NVM. Don’t waste any of your precious time on one of these scrotes.

AmethystAngel86 · 2022-01-27T08:24:01+00:00

Yes. He was completely crazy. In the beginning of the relationship he love bombed me and everything about me was perfect. Out of nowhere, I couldn’t do anything right. It started by criticising the way I eat. If I left even a crumb of food, he would start complaining and try to force me to eat. He would criticise my hobbies and interests - his interests were far mor superior and he told me I enjoyed the lowest form of humour.

He would also neg me and criticise my outfits. He would also call me materialistic. I remember I told him that my friends and I were planning a cruise and he said that cruises were the worst type of holidays and I’m polluting the Earth by going on a cruise 🙄.

I walked in egg shells for four months before I finally left him. Everything I did caused and argument. I broke down one night and told him I was depressed. He told me to pack my bags by the morning because obviously I wasn’t happy with him if I was depressed. I stupidly apologised and stayed.

The whole relationship was a nightmare!

So if you suspect he’s a narcissist, LEAVE. Leave immediately! It never gets better!

Kylie_Fan · 2022-01-27T08:17:54+00:00

To call it a losing game is an understatement. There's the average douche and then there's the N, which is orders of magnitude worse.

With covert narcissists you never really know how deep their well of poison is. They are consummate manipulators and know how to hide the depth of their depravity.

Don't walk away, run for dear life. You'll regret it if you stick around. Disengage completely from this kind of person, they bring nothing good to your life.

SupremeDearLeader · 2022-01-27T18:46:11+00:00

Worst relationship I ever had was with a covert narc. Hobosexuals who are terrible w personal responsibilities, use pity to hook you in, feeling sorry for them[ say "I had a bad childhood " ect they just need a lil help] .....riiiiight .....they will lie ,steal and hide to keep getting free stuff from others , they have NO SHAME . Yes it gets worse because they resent if you aren't steadily giving them free stuff and withdraw and sulk more . Kicked mine to the curb and he owed me thousands in unpaid loans/ stole kitchen appliances on his way out but I was so relieved he's gone, don't even care!!!!

Ok_Motor_3069 · 2022-01-27T12:32:21+00:00

Yes and yes, it seems that once you aren’t useful any more, there is no need to extend anything to you except meanness.

twinwho · 2022-01-27T10:55:25+00:00

Yes, worse and worse and worse.

They cannot self-reflect, which means they cannot sense their own self. We need to grapple with our true self in order to grow, and without this ability, we cannot change -- yet, life demands change. Thus, their eternal struggle.

There is no goodness in their world until they win this unwinnable war. Come wedding, babies, love, death, beauty, success -- all second fiddle to this eternal war.

As they resist change, they develop and cling to a projected, paper-thin fantasy persona, as a way to try to dominate 'life' into not only meeting their basic human needs, but to always 'go their way' so they never have to change (i.e. face this internal war head-on, which they believe could kill them outright). This persona is their life raft -- their survival depends on it.

Because they depend on their projected persona to 'get them through', they lack the wisdom depth provides. Wisdom that helps us grapple with and make sense of life's forces (beyond what's in front of us), which elevates us from the quick fix and esteem-hit of blaming ourselves, others, God, life, when things don't go our way, and provides us resilience in challenging times.

Without depth, 'life' is simplified, meaningless and -- dramatic. To a narcissist, 'life' is represented as whatever is in front of them at the moment. From sales clerk to flat tire to significant other, there is no difference. Everyone and everything is 'the best' (credit) or a mortal enemy (blame), depending on if 'life' is going their way in the present moment, or not. This is the ever-changing second-to-second polarized stressful hell they live in. There is no 'building' a relationship with a narcissist, because they 'live in the moment' of their own unquestioned, flimsy and transient perception.

As time goes on in relationships with others, life throws challenging situations, humans sense their lack of depth & honesty, and change is constant. These are natural life forces that expose true character. The narcissist experiences these as 'cracks' in their life raft. When this happens, their survival is threatened: they get faced with the war, and everything after this point to repair the crack (in the beginning of the relationship) or -- fight the enemy in front of them flooding the raft (as the relationship goes on) -- is justified. They have their war goggles on.

This means, in every given moment, they are either the hero, the victim, or both. They are the protagonist of this dramatic adventure; it’s them against the world. Against all life forces, they cling to their paper-thin life raft, and identify as the eternal ‘hero’ of repairing the sinking raft. It’s everyone else’s fault the raft gets cracked -- whoever is in front of them. Call them out on dishonesty? They perceive you as the the one cracking the raft -- therefore, it’s your fault it’s sinking. Now look what you made them have to do in order to keep the raft afloat. And they WILL do anything. After all, to them, their life is sinking -- you endangered their life, which means you deserve what happens next.

To them, people have only one purpose and meaning: attention-givers -- good (positive regard) or bad (everything else). They use their superficial persona to manipulate others to superficially meet their basic need of love & belonging. We mean nothing more to them; they cannot experience human depth, and so love, in their world, is a one-way demand of paper-thin positive regard. They manipulate you into projecting your depth of love onto them so you believe it's what you're receiving, while you are reduced, in their eyes, to attention-giver: constantly proving, yet not deserving, love. This is the underlying gaslight that fuels these superficial relationships.

Over time, everything gradually flips: they are elevated and god-like on your qualities, yet you are worthless and bereft of depth, stuck questioning your own reality -- until you catch on and become aware the switch happened. It's a trick of perception they've mastered. They do this by taking advantage of your depth, while being vindictive of the depth you expect of them.

As the victim of it, you may hate the goodness in yourself, and you believe you don’t deserve goodness from others. You may feel simultaneously that you & your love aren't good enough -- and yet will hate yourself for loving as it made you vulnerable to get taken advantage of. You may believe you could never love again, and also believe no one could ever love you.

It goes to show the human psyche can be fragile, and that our esteem is based in our perception of ourselves: our beliefs, morals, values. The narcissist attacks our senses, makes us doubt our amazing ability of sense of self -- and then infiltrates our beliefs. It is damaging, but for the victims, it comes with the silver lining of allowing us to rebuild -- something a narcissist could never do. Re-building is strength, and we do this by re-engaging and trusting our sense of self.

(Please know, it is hard to not project your own depth onto others as you get to know them. Holding back from projecting what, to you, is basic human decency, empathy, compassion, honesty, integrity -- your inner values and morals -- onto others will help enrich your vetting strategy, and help you accept others for who they are. You would be surprised how many people, especially men, are behaving normally and presenting well, yet lacking basic human components. Nothing is too basic to vet for, and some of these take quite some time to vet out. It takes a strong sense of self in order to vet someone else's sense of self.

Also remember, people who fulfill our fantasies, make us feel good, and who meet our standards, are people we wish more than anything to 'be human' and have these basics, but the sad truth is, they may not. It is our job to accept others as who they are, as acceptance will set us free. What traps us often is not others, but the fantasy they evoke in us that we cling to. Narcissists are fantasy makers. They are so good at it because without a self, they truly 'live' the fantasy, so the fantasy feels real for everyone involved.

Maintaining a strong sense of self can help you vet others, but also keep you sharp against your own lingering fantasies that long to be resolved by others, often to the destruction of self.)

People who resist change -- resist nature. These people will need to indulge in destructive behaviors to warp their humanness in an effort to continue the resistance. Even the love of their life, to these people, is merely an obstacle in this lifelong pursuit; this is between them and 'life' -- man vs. nature. It’s a dangerous mission, and we need to accept this is the journey they are on. Once we accept them, we can move our obstacle-self out of their way and leave them alone, so they may spend their life as they choose, in this eternal struggle.

BedazzledSwashbuckle · 2022-01-27T18:22:53+00:00

yes, it gets worse.

yes it's always a losing game.

Yes, you're going to have to leave eventually.

yes, leaving is hard and definitely scary.

yes, you're going to survive this and be so thankful you left someday.

Yes, you'll have a wonderful, satisfying future, and wish you'd left sooner so you could have gotten to it a bit more quickly.

Sending you hugs and best wishes as you figure this out.

melympia · 2022-01-27T20:28:27+00:00

Well, he only became more and more self-centered. Or, more likely, he dropped the love-bombing and pretense of caring completely.

starlight_sequence · 2022-01-27T15:29:23+00:00

I haven’t run into him again, but it got more noticeable as the relationship progressed.

At first, it was like I was the center of his world, like his hobby was finding ways to please me and make me happy. I felt special, and in return of course I wanted to do things to make him feel special too.

Then, suddenly those things I did to make him feel special weren’t enough. I didn’t do it exactly the way he wanted me to do it, and he would throw tantrums about not feeling “valued” or feeling like he puts more effort into relationships than he receives… even though I had just done something to show him that I care!

As the relationship progressed the entitlement became more and more pronounced. The narcissism mostly manifested as intense “sad” feelings, and an expectation that I would constantly coddle him and tend to his emotional injuries. When I started to put up boundaries around emotionally caretaking him, he started to get… almost sloppy in his manipulation? That’s when the projection, gaslighting, and victim-mentality really came out.

t3ddi · 2022-01-27T13:20:46+00:00

Yes. The only way to win is not to play.

itsirrelevant · 2022-01-27T14:43:43+00:00

100% yes

Keepers12345 · 2022-01-28T05:23:30+00:00

How could it not get worse?

Narcissists rarely change.

If they do, it's because they recognize that their bad and abusive behavior, albeit beneficial to them, is worth losing (as well as their perceived entitlement) for some greater cause. The chances of being in a relationship with a covert narcissist and life getting better for you during that time is a trace percentage.

Yes, they became more self-centered, self-absorbed, and insatiably power driven during the duration of our "relationship." Looking back, I was viewed as a role filler for someone with a madonna/whore complex until I just couldn't take it anymore.

AC7878 · 2022-01-27T17:55:04+00:00

ALSO if they treated you wrong the first time what guarantees they will treat you better the next? They shouldn't have messed it up in the first place.

lolmemberberries · 2022-01-28T00:26:22+00:00

Research does support the idea that narcissistic people get worse over time. They're incapable of introspection and allergic to accountability. You don't lose anything by no longer having them in your life, but keeping them in your life will cost you everything.

From experience, they learn how to initially hide their behavior better with each new relationship and how to manipulate people and situations to try to make their exes look like the problem. But the next person will also deal with their triangulation, blame shifting, rage, self-pity and inability to take ownership for anything they do.

PicoPicoMio · 2022-01-28T09:06:41+00:00

Yes absolutely, he became more of a victim. And his attitude, entitlement became more pronounced.

DarbyGirl · 2022-01-28T11:22:01+00:00

I haven't seen mine since I moved out. However I've been told he's since very much fallen down the right wing, antivax, anti mask, conspiracy theory rabbit hole.

Title	Women who dated covert narcissists, did their narcissism get "worse" over time?
Author	Throwawaylikehay
Upvotes	281
Comments	63
Date	January 27, 2022 6:24 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/FemaleDatingStrategy
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/comments/sdrt83/women_who_dated_covert_narcissists_did_their/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/women-who-dated-covert-narcissists-did-their.1097332 https://theredarchive.com/post/1097332

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