Observations on Male socialization vs Female socialization

KJ1017 · 2021-09-07T00:34:23+00:00

I think women are aware of the nature of males early, but not 100% because they’re taught to be.

Young girls are taught that boys are fundamentally bad, and will have bad intentions. Mostly because of purity culture. Their expectations for boys are lower because of that. And when the harsh reality hits they’re more prepared for it.

Meanwhile young boys are taught that women are wonderful. They know nothing at all about hypergamy. They think a good personality is all you need.

So after they get out of all that little kid shit and into the real dating scene they discover everything they’ve been told is a lie. While women have been prepared for the reality of men for years.

Boys are lied to about the nature of women, but women aren’t lied to about the nature of boysz

NockerJoe · 2021-09-06T23:58:46+00:00

I've seen a lot of women who are in fact "lied to". The difference is that traditionally in the west, young girls are given an extremely negative view of men. Young boys, meanwhile, are given a rosy view of women. Both of these are generally incomplete pictures that result in a lot of problems but a young woman being surprised usually has more positive connotations if their version of "the talk" talks about how men are bad and only ever want one thing, because then it turns out men will want multiple things, a large number of which they presumably also want if they're interested in relationships. Obviously abuse and violence against women is a thing so this isn't universal, but there's way more information on that for young women than there are warnings of any kind to young men. Which is why when young men get burned they feel lied to, because men don't really get a version of "the talk" that accounts for negative things women do to men or how to deal with it.

midwestufohunter · 2021-09-07T00:55:12+00:00

Uh I was completely lied to about men. I was told they were loving providers who would be a partner to a loving woman.

Philip8000 · 2021-09-07T01:43:42+00:00

How it works in fiction is, the kind but awkward young man eventually meets someone wonderful. In real life, not so much. Then there's pick-up artistry, which without excellent social skills, comes across as very creepy.

I'm an individual who is often sensitive and emotional, and it isn't a trait I can turn off. I've actually been told to man up more often from women then men.

What I too often hear is: "All men care about is sex", which isn't true for the majority. Even for those who might not want anything else as a teenager often grow out of it. Dating sucks for everyone, though I'd say it's more dangerous for women.

WilliamWyattD · 2021-09-07T04:43:35+00:00

I think the OP is on to something, but she needs more nuance.

The feminism-inspired narrative based on the idea that gender is entirely, or at the least overwhelmingly, socially constructed and that there is no biological basis for gender is essentially wrong. And so all the corollary ideas that stem from it share this fatal flaw.

As this narrative has gained influence, it has confused everyone, man and woman alike. However, because it is so intuitively wrong, the feminist narrative has never completely replaced traditional narratives about gender. Each narrative vies for dominance, and in different demographics and regions, the balance between the narratives differs.

But because the male attraction calculus is indeed simpler in many ways, and men are less selective, this mixed narrative has had less impact on women's ability to be attractive to men than the other way around. The mixed narrative has had a profound (and mostly negative) impact on women's ability to understand and appreciate men overall, but not so much on their ability to attract men because, quite frankly, it just isn't that hard to be attractive to men.

On the other hand, women are inherently pickier and their innate attraction calculus is more complex. Furthermore, one can argue that the traditional narrative on what women find attractive in males is less helpful to men in balancing out the new feminist narrative. 'Traditionally' society engineered a somewhat artificial situation to shape and channel female sexuality so as to promote wide spread monogamy despite the innate reality of female sexual selectivity. Furthermore, it hid a lot of aspects of female sexuality from men and women alike to lubricate a system that was trying to force the square peg of female sexual selectivity into the round hole of widespread enforced monogamy: when trying to do this, there are a lot of aspects of female sexuality that are unhelpful for men and women to know explicitly. (Women had an intuitive and flexible understanding of their true nature and shared this to some extrent, but still rarely put the whole picture together at one time explicitly.)

But now technology and modern culture have removed most of the aspects of society that made the traditional narrative on female sexuality function. We have better birth control, generally easy access to abortion, equal political and economic rights for women, etc. Meanwhile, the modern feminist narrative on gender is fatally flawed. So men are dealing with a gender whose attraction calculus is innately more complex, and both narratives they have to rely on are not only at odds with one another, but are both inherently and fatally flawed in their accuracy. On top of that, men are innately less capable at intuitively understanding people, and they tend to share less with one another.

So yeah, nobody really knows what the fuck is going on. But when it comes to understanding attraction, men are even more confused than women.

TodTheRod01 · 2021-09-07T00:15:25+00:00

Most women dont know what men want other than sex

ohheyhi99 · 2021-09-07T00:27:45+00:00

I mostly agree with this. The advice women and men get is often toxic, but the advice women get harps on fundamental truths, especially about the importance of looks, that men’s advice doesn’t. I also think women’s advice underprepares them to be go-getters in dating.

I disagree about this part:

“This is why so many young men resonate with the idea that they were “blue pilled,” and lied to. They were under the impression that attracting the opposite sex is easy and intuitive. It isn’t. Entering the dating world is traumatic because their view of the world is shattered.”

IME, I wasn’t taught that appealing to women would be easy. I was just taught lots of bullshit about what I needed to work on most to attract women. Lots of “nice guys” and genuine nice guys followed advice that advised them to spend their time thinking too much about some things and too little about other things.

D_D_BA4 · 2021-09-06T23:57:22+00:00

Do women really want to be friends with men?

Ok_Razzmatazz_1751 · 2021-09-07T01:40:03+00:00

In my opinion this comes from either good parenting, or a lack of parenting for instance my two older sons are 23 and 21 when they were adolescents told them at the age of 12 they needed to start wearing deodorant, making sure their teeth were brushed everyday , twice a day , would help provide the clothing ,and haircuts, but they had to start conditioning themselves to look appropriate, they couldn't look like a ragamuffin out in public, and they needed to take care of themselves.

Don't think it's complicated parenting to tell your kids the truth on having good hygiene and keeping in shape is important for attracting the opposite sex. It's smart parenting . Prepares your kids for reality . To be honest the better looking your kid is and more presentable the less incidences of bullying will take place in school. (Plausibly) and it came very naturally for me to tell my sons these are the things you need to do if you want a girl to like you. Which they both have been successful.

unfknblvbe · 2021-09-07T01:56:36+00:00

I fully agreed with you thought process and I can only speak as a man that had very little exposure to women

Until I got older and at least had female friends it was a struggle to see them as anything else but the other wrong or not it's just hard to understand someone without they social development and exposure to their life you can't understand theirs struggle or emphasise becusee they have issues in place you might never have thought about on your own.

Also my friends gf was a strong feminist and super standoffish before knowing me for years but I feel like she was in the same boat it was hard for her to see that we struggle too. Like now she get very mad and certain view that get projected about men and it's sort of strange to see but also nice too.

IndependenceSoft3250 · 2021-09-07T00:33:22+00:00

Every wondered why women don’t feel “lied to” about what they should expect from men and dating? Why they seem to understand from a young age what men want?

As a man.

I've talked to enough people, read enough books, and seen enough to know that many women have no idea what men want.

You are assuming that rp, is a social behavior movement, and that it is intended to give guidance, when it has always been about politics.

mr_pro_con · 2021-09-07T00:29:30+00:00

Girls are socialized from childhood to define themselves in terms of what men want them to be.

maybe 100 years ago but these days girls are explicitly socialized away from being what men want. they're socialized to be independent, not rely on men, etc

Compare this to the average middle school boy, who will have essentially zero concept of what a woman might want them to be.

there used to be expected roles. socialization was to prepare boys and girls for their expected roles. but those days are long gone. both sexes are socialized to be good workers for someone else.

Being “redpilled” means learning the truth about what the opposite sex wants you to be.

Heh, have never heard it described like that. but i think you're onto something in that boys were formerly socialized to become a good provider.

since women dont need* a personal provider socialization should change. boys should be made aware just how much work is involved in pursuing girls in the age of tinder

keeping a wife is like a fulltime job
the cost of failure to keep her happy is very high
being a good provider is nowhere near enough

It might just reduce the shock when their girlfriend cheats on them or their uncle moves into the basement after divorce.

lingualistic · 2021-09-07T00:41:32+00:00

Yep. I still really like being some of those things(feminine, well groomed, beautiful/fit, etc)-- but not for men. The attention of men is of negative value.

Alternative-Deer-144 · 2021-09-07T09:47:46+00:00

true, girls are taught that looks are the most important factor in long term happiness. boys are still taught that being productive is the most important thing, when that has also morphed into looks in the past few decades

DillonTheFatUglyMale · 2021-09-07T12:29:50+00:00

I still don't know what girls want from men. What do women want men to be?

TheBookOfSeil · 2021-09-07T01:11:46+00:00

I don't think that raising men and women to be more like each other is good either. Everyone seems to be confused about what the difference between male/female and animal behavior is.

Males and females are not different species, as you've said. That means that some behaviors are going to be the same. However, when it comes to things like sex, since males and females are not the same, that's going to be where they differ, and trying to merge the two (animal/sex) behaviors together isn't a solution. All it does, or has seemed to do so far, is make people confused about how they should be acting.

Friendships have nothing to do with sex so it really doesn't matter who a person is friends with. However, it is generally more difficult for men and women to be friends because of those sexual differences.

SaBahRub · 2021-09-07T01:55:17+00:00

No one needs to tell women what men are like and what they want

Men show us all the time, usually from age 9-10

Men could easily learn what women want. Look at Disney princes — hot, rich/high status, romantic, doting. They just don’t want to, and it has a lower success rate anyways, because women don’t have male libidos

30DaystoSolstice · 2021-09-07T01:58:05+00:00

I have never seen an halfway decent take on this "purple pill" sub. It's like it takes the worst of both blue pill and red pill mentally to make this hybrid shit show of a forum.

Girls/ Women have zero idea of what men want The reason you see men "adjusting " to reality and women seemingly don't, is not because women know it all already, it's because :

1- the onus is one man to figure it out. To make things work in every and all situation. It's ultimately immaterial whether the woman knows what the man wants

2- women don't self reflect. They would never admit to have had a wrong perception of men. Cuz back to point 1, it's always on the man to make it work. So you'll never see a feminine movement like the red pill that will re-examine common women assumption about dating. It would go against the dominant woman ideology- feminism- which tells woman it's never their fault.

But in reality pretty much every women go tru phases where first they have absolutely no clue what they are doing upon entering the dating market, they then find love, then they go tru a defining break up,( often that's when they get played dirty because ching chang* they don't know men), then they enter a city girl phase ( to put it nicely) then they settle when they got the city girl phase out of their system.

All these phases are all widely inconsistent approach to dating because again they don't know what M want or what they want.

PS: little girls are not socialized to please boys/men. They are socialized to ruthlessly compete with each other to be the prettiest Disney princess, not to please the disgusting boys. (Ew)

Insidious-Sid · 2021-09-07T02:26:20+00:00

Girls are told what men want.

Boys are lied to and told what women should want.

Yeah, pretty much sums it up.

At the end of the day, here is what I am telling my sons:

Be as wealthy as you can be. Be as good looking as you can be.

The guy who gets the MOST SEX while spending the LEAST ON WOMEN wins.

(A guy who married has yet to win this contest...)

Superfluous_Toast · 2021-09-07T05:52:06+00:00

It's kind of hard not to know what the average man wants in a woman when it's plastered on every billboard, every advertisement, in every piece of entertainment geared toward men. I can't enjoy a video game without male gamers complaining that modern female characters are ugly and waxing poetic about the days "when women were allowed to be sexy." We live in a world where what men want to see is everywhere, how could we not know?

girlindolor · 2021-09-07T00:36:17+00:00

There are many bluepilled/normie guys in relationships tho? What do men even think women's "true nature" is? Probably something to do with only wanting attractive guys, but i have never cared for hot guys, and if you disregard me because i'm only one example, there are young average looking guys in relationships everywhere. Average lookswise and average/normal personality wise, meaning guys who do not partake in any red pill behaviour either, who have decent personalities. Young normal men and women get into ltrs all the time. This can't be seriously denied. But according to men's theory here about women, their girlfriends should be out having casual sex with chads while they're in their prime years. Or only date bad boys. So i just don't understand the whole "women only want Chad/super alphas" idea that men have when a single look at reality disproves that whole mantra, looking at reality that notion may only apply to some women, clearly not even close to all of them.

cl0wngang · 2021-09-07T00:40:50+00:00

[permanently deleted]

SuperSaiyanAssHair · 2021-09-07T08:02:07+00:00

I've never lied to a man about what I'm attracted to. My boyfriend asked me yesterday to rank certain guys we know, just out of curiosity, and I told him the truth. I'm just a sucker for manly "dad" types, friendly funny average looking dudes. I feel he was expecting me to name the fuckboys, because it seems like men these days think that's what all women want. Surprise, I'm with you because you're not a fuckboy.

And for him, he said looks are important, but only as far as being feminine and natural and not unattractive. I get it now. We talk about some natural cute women we know that have boosted appeal because their personalities are good. When I was growing up I thought men just liked mean pretty girls, but I realize y'all just want a girl that's pretty enough and likeable. I feel the same way about guys, a bit of masculinity and likeability and he's good.

I appreciate TRP for clarifying dating ideals, but there's a wide margin in real life where "it's fine the way it is" and we can focus on building the relationship for security, not relying on our appearances to carry us forever.

DicknosePrickGoblin · 2021-09-07T10:41:10+00:00

Women do what they do growing up not because that's what they are told to do but because that's how females behave naturally, just the same as boys do what they do not because they are taught that way but because their brains are wire differently and have much more testosterone pumping thru their bodies, that's why boys engage in contact sports and girls perform sexy group dances and show a higher interest in looking good.

Good-Strong · 2021-09-07T12:03:28+00:00

The reason men feel "lied to" is benevolent sexism, not feminism.

There is nothing feminist about presenting most women as these naturally all-loving, all-sacrificing, all-forgiving beings (at least when it comes to how they relate to their partners at any rate).

It's this type of presentation of women, and the often implicit but sometimes open suggestion that women that don't match up to this ideal are evil harpies out to kill everyone, that leads to boys and young men having unhealthy expectations when it comes to heterosexual relationships- not feminism.

Feminism is the solution in this case, not the problem. And I think you're definitely onto the right idea when you say that men and women talking to each other about these things honestly and platonically would be a good start to solving these issues.

SuperSaiyanAssHair · 2021-09-08T03:43:41+00:00

problem is that what men want is very basic and easy to understand compared to what women want

you get men with 10, 20, 30 years experience with women and still little idea what they want

you have a 1 minute conversation with an honest, horny man and come away knowing everything there is to know about what men want

KarmenP · 2021-09-06T23:50:37+00:00

The problem is women lie, boldly and in your face, about what they want in men. I can state succinctly and honestly what I look for in a woman, for some odd reason your gender is completely incapable of this

Kaisha001 · 2021-09-06T23:49:23+00:00

Society is designed from the ground up to cater to women, so boys naturally find themselves at odds with the system and feeling left out. They are the proverbial square peg trying to fit into the round hole.

cl0wngang · 2021-09-06T23:53:39+00:00

Pro tip: actually read what I wrote before you comment, and then respond directly to something I said.

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Greevjacket · 2021-09-07T00:25:00+00:00

I would believe in ya, except your post history with "All men are gay" and "All women would be lesbians if they could". You don't seem to have made up your mind.

Impossible-Fall6484 · 2021-09-07T01:27:58+00:00

I don't have a problem with this post the only problem I have is you need to replace “society” with women. Men or “society” are not forcing or encouraging young girls to women to wear makeup in middle school that's girls, because most men do not give a shit or even make a big deal about it, you rarely hear it. Men are not reading cosmo magazines about fashion and cosmetics, women do it because they're competing with each other to get the top man they can.

ass-thetics · 2021-09-07T13:14:42+00:00

A lot of women are also blue pilled in a sense by the same stuff the guys are. How many absolutely beautiful girls do you see tagging along with losers they call their boyfriends. I have met many of them. They don't find their partners attractive, but they were told that this is what you are supposed to want. They fell for a similar trap and it often wastes many years of their time.

poppy_blu · 2021-09-07T18:06:05+00:00

If you think about the blueprint for our adult lives it starts in the home/community.

Girls, as soon as we can walk and talk, are praised by well meaning adults for how we look. “Oh Becky you look so pretty in your Easter dress!”

Boys OTOH are praised for their accomplishments. Rarely ever on how they look, other then to tell them to get cleaned up when they’ve been playing in the mud or something.

Girls see their parents relationship, where dads love for mom seems to be tied to how she looks (often the only time she hears him compliment her mother) and how good a caregiver she is. She notices dad looking at attractive women in magazines, on TV, on the street. And she learns based on what she sees that keeping a man happy in a relationship must be about being attractive enough to keep him from straying.

Boys see their parents relationship, where mom’s love for dad seems to have little to do with how attractive he is on any given day. Now that doesn’t necessarily mean mom doesn’t find him attractive, she’s just not given to ogling and stating and ass smacking in front of the kids (men have no shame in this dept). Moms love for dad appears to a young boy to be about his utility (mom thanks him and gives him a kiss when he takes out the garbage or fixes the leaky pipe), something his mother reinforces with him (good boy, you cleaned your room!”) So he thinks doing for women will make them love him.

They see these patterns repeated among the other adults in their lives— the uncle who the family whisperers about cheating with some woman but everyone including his wife seems to tolerate it, the spinster aunt who everyone jokes about being too old to find a man, the men at the neighborhood BBQ who conspicuously stare at the teenage girls when their wives aren’t looking, and so on.

All of this comes to a head when we arrive at adolescence and find out what’s true and what isn’t. And yes I do believe girls have an advantage by nature of seeing in action the pragmatism of how men really love.

odd_cloud · 2021-09-10T18:06:56+00:00

I'd say women are lied about all these beauty standards. Of course, I'm going to express my own preferences, may be I am an outlier or may be women really need to be perfect to impress Chad , I don't know. So, from point of view almost every woman is attractive. Curvy or skinny, long or short hair or very short hair, make up or no makeup, a dress or a sweatpants, tall or short - everything seems ok. So I honestly don't understand the problem of these scary beauty standards for women. It would be interesting to see how many men would agree with me. Also, things like make up and heels are above my level of understanding completely.

As for the main topic - I think it's just easier to achieve a level of attractiveness as a woman. Simply speaking you either are attractive or not. So that is why women and men know how a woman can be attractive.

On the other hand, make attractiveness is more complicated. Looking good is different because women are more judgemental of little things. Then, a lot of make attractiveness depends on behavior, and it is really complicated. You kinda have to behave in an attractive way, and it is difficult to explain in which way specifially. Also, you better have a charismatic personality. The thing with charisma is that people like charismatic personality, and charismatic personality is one that people like. There is no really good way to increase your charisma. It's not a rocket science, because you can actually learn rocket science.

Holler4Heller · 2021-09-14T22:58:42+00:00

Every one of your opening statements is incorrect in my opinion. Pass

Title	Observations on Male socialization vs Female socialization
Author	cl0wngang
Upvotes	78
Comments	266
Date	September 6, 2021 11:46 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/pjbf95/observations_on_male_socialization_vs_female/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/observations-on-male-socialization-vs-female.1067651 https://theredarchive.com/post/1067651

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