Gender Suicide Paradox

Clipzy22 · 2022-12-13T20:21:31+00:00

It's also pretty hard to report an attempt when you're dead already.

ArgueLater · 2022-12-13T19:35:00+00:00

Also noteworthy: many male suicides are reported as "gun cleaning accidents," largely for the sake of making sure the children get whatever support they can from life insurance. I very much support this decision, it's what I would want. But it does skew the numbers a bit further.

In general, there's a lot of male deaths that border the line between reckless accident and suicidal.

nineteenletterslong_ · 2022-12-13T20:35:50+00:00

i think karen straughen said that there is no study that directly shows women attempt suicide more often. rather, studies that claim it tend to reference each other. when she found the original study that had the data it was really about self harm, not suicide attempts. this is what i remember hearing but i could be wrong.

nyarlathotep999 · 2022-12-13T20:16:07+00:00

Those last two lines though... Damn straight. A lot of the fatal accidents that happen on the job might also actually happen to be suicide. Not all people who kill themselves leave a note.

g1455ofwater · 2022-12-13T20:25:25+00:00

There is no reason to believe that women are that incompetent. If they were really trying to commit suicide they would succeed at a much close rate to men. This is just another detestable way for society to justify ignoring men.

agenericusername9 · 2022-12-13T21:02:08+00:00

When I attempted I told my mom I felt like doing so in the heat of a fight even though I had a long history of suicide. I said I wanted to and she told me to do it. So I tried only stopped cause my step dad came down to stop me, when I went to hospital and was just kinda waiting for them to admit me into psych ward my mom came to visit. The entire time I swear to god she made it about her. Since then I’ve not had an open or close relationship and i resent her heavily she wonders why lol. (Lots of reasons tbh this is just one of many)

Sbubbert · 2022-12-13T20:15:26+00:00

A lot of female suicide "attempts" are more of a cry for help rather than an actual suicide attempt. Taking a few harmless pills and calling someone isn't really an earnest attempt at suicide. I'm not shaming this at all. Some people don't know what else to do. I'm just throwing it out there.

JackHoff13 · 2022-12-13T22:08:22+00:00

Had a girlfriend threaten to kill herself if I broke up with her.

I don’t negotiate with terrorists

nacho-chonky · 2022-12-13T21:49:18+00:00

For men a suicide attempt is a shameful embarrassing act for women they receive empathy and support, when men attempt it they are actually wanting to die, when women attempt it often it is a cry for help, that’s why men go for the deadliest methods like a gun to the head while women use less deadly methods like overdose on sleeping pills

Sea_Tour_3696 · 2022-12-13T21:06:40+00:00

It could be that women are more open about these things. I wouldn't tell many about a suicide attempt let alone report it.

Amazing-Bit6140 · 2022-12-13T21:29:16+00:00

It's a non-sequitur that feels like it solves the argument in womans' favor, so it gets used

Same with "Well whos commiting that violence, huh!?" when men try to get resources for being victims of violent crime, which they are at much higher rates that women.

It's a blatant 0-iq response equivalent to "sucks to be you, stfu". We should treat it the same.

MrStone1 · 2022-12-13T22:21:06+00:00

Women do because they want sympathy and attention, Men do it because they want to die.

Acousmetre78 · 2022-12-13T20:54:52+00:00

My sister who is 46 attempts suicide when she doesn’t get her way.

PoolPartyAtMyHouse · 2022-12-14T14:41:26+00:00

Regardless of gender, a lot of suicide attempts are cries for attention/help. I have always thought because of that it's really disingenuous to even consider including them in the discussion of suicide. It's a completely different topic.

thejimmyrocks · 2022-12-13T21:12:06+00:00

So what you're saying is... we are better at it

LoveScoutCEO · 2022-12-13T21:24:25+00:00

Someone mentioned the "gun cleaning" excuse put forward for many suicides. That is true, but far more men are killed in one car accidents that are suicide.

Usually, it is just noted. "He lost control at a high rate of speed." Any state trooper has worked these. It really sucks.

OctaviaPinfold · 2022-12-13T21:31:10+00:00

Self-reporting should never be treated as hard evidence for anything, even hospitalization has to be taken with a grain of salt, for example a person who cuts themself can end up in a hospital due to an infection. Does that still count as a suicide attempt then? Some "statistics" will count it, some won't.

ScottishGamer1909 · 2022-12-13T23:54:38+00:00

I'm 100% sure men are less likely to say they tried to kill themselves than women are. They don't want to talk and open up, I'd also say that men succeed more because they actually want to kill themselves instead of a cry for help. I don't think men do a cry for help type thing well at all unfortunately.

Hugs_seeker · 2022-12-13T20:32:19+00:00

If anyone is having suicidal thoughts, please ask for help, i know society doesn't value your feelings as much as u deserve, but please, don't just end your life, we love you, we need you❤️🙏

Brave_Champion_4577 · 2022-12-14T06:03:02+00:00

I remember discussing this on a psychology class, and one of the reasons given was that men tend to use more definite means of suicide, guns, hanging, or Faul from great heights. Whereas women are more likely to use pills, or cutting. It’s obviously not meant to represent all. I myself am a two time male Suicide Survivor by way of cutting.

Minute_Ad_1494 · 2022-12-14T15:33:12+00:00

Unfortunately self reported data in general is inaccurate. It only proves what people are willing to admit.

SnooBeans6591 · 2022-12-14T19:25:39+00:00

95% of "attempted suicide" were not intended to succeed.

It is self-harm to attempt to bring attention to one's issue. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1998/11/981112075159.htm

The thing is that men too often don't think they have any chance of getting any help, so they end it, women on the other hand expect help.

rabel111 · 2022-12-14T22:06:05+00:00

The analyses publically available supporting this "paradox" reveal that the number of attempts counted in the data, included individual women who report as many as 50 attempts each month, and included simple scratching of the skin, or attending hospitals for "feeling suicidal". This bias is seldom reported by feminist academics intent on diverting focus and funding away from men at any cost.

A further bias used by feminist academics when they are in positions to influence policies specifically focused on male suicide, is to divide "men" into at risk subgroups (e.g. GBTI men, indigenous men, non-english speaking immigrant men, men with disabilities). While these subgroups only include a small number of male suicides, the rate of suicides is higher, and this is used to divert funding away from the largest number of men committing suicide, to smaller subgroups aligned with feminist ideological narratives.

Humble_Measurement_7 · 2022-12-13T23:27:50+00:00

Double standards

Giga_mad69 · 2022-12-13T21:31:17+00:00

It’s so fucking sad, male mental health gets brushed under the rug and all the attention goes to people who ultimately just want attention

elidiomenezes · 2022-12-14T11:35:39+00:00

When men tries to kill himself is because he wants to die. He will do it in the most efficient possible means at his disposal. If he has a gun, he will shoot himself in the head. If he has a car, he will lock himself in the garage with the engine running and take a nap. If he has nothing, he will go to a high place and jump...

Hell, in a pinch he will set himself on fire and go out on a blaze.

When women tries to kill herself, she wants attention. Therefore she will use the least efficient possible means (because she actually don't want to die), like cutting herself, or taking sleep pills, or go to a bridge and look into the void waiting for someone to attempt to stop her.

When she gets attention, she will stop. Some end up dead because something goes wrong, or because she didn't get the attention she wanted.

Men are straightforward people. When they want something, they go for it. Women are devious creatures that seek to achieve their goals through indirect means.

GeorgeOlduvai · 2022-12-13T19:59:12+00:00

The 3 to 1 variance in attempts and successes is easily explained by method. Men shoot themselves, jump, or otherwise choose methods that tend not to go wrong. Women have a tendency to poison themselves and call someone. A pumped stomach is easy.

tragedyfish · 2022-12-13T20:59:42+00:00

Men tend to use guns, women tend to use pills. One of these options gives you more of a chance to regret your actions and get help.

Emet22 · 2022-12-14T02:15:16+00:00

Men: We commit suicide most often...

Women: We attempt to commit suicide most often. See! We are just as hard done by!

fukklibtards · 2022-12-14T08:19:51+00:00

For four years; I evaluated and detained people that were suicidal to psych hospitals. Of course the most serious of those who commit suicide are those that don't tell anyone. There may be inadvertant signs leading up to the act that are revealed during the planning phase, such as a change in mood from depressed to happy, giving away personal affects, purchasing a gun, dropping out of school, quitting a job, planning a trip, or tying up loose ends.

Men tend to have a conviction in some respects that is unparaleled. An ability to make up their minds and execute a plan, consider all the possibilities and see it through. I think this is evident in their approach to ending their lives. I dont see people discussing this enough. As part of this approach, Men also tend to use more lethal means in order to increase the likelihood of the desired outcome. Women often OD on pills, and it's often not fatal. They get care and it often helps them to move through that particular storm of suicidal ideation.

Nickolas_Bowen · 2022-12-14T14:30:48+00:00

Because we men don’t want to let others know about our problems. We get harassed if we have an issue, told to man up. We don’t get empathy the same way women do. Society sees a woman try to kill herself and they coddle her, they see a man try to kill himself and they joke about him not being successful.

WowwOkk__ · 2022-12-14T15:32:16+00:00

Most of the women I know who have "attempted suicide" just take a random bottle of medication that has almost no chance of killing them. It isn't meticulously thought out and there's no real intention behind it.

Men do it viscerally because they are hopeless. They know that no one will help them and no one cares. They know to die they have to kill their body and that's the only escape.

Of every attempted suicide by women in my life or that I've known it was always just impulsive and superficial. I don't know why that is except for the probability that they wanted to do something dramatic and life changing but not something that would actually work.

Low_Historian_8965 · 2022-12-14T16:01:29+00:00

I'm sick of feminism and feminists

Final_Philosopher663 · 2022-12-13T20:09:41+00:00

We have problem with underreporting and shame and then you see on the news they make advertisement about assisted suicide . It seems to me like a big FU to people who suffer and try to get by and not suicide to have advertisements saying "better suicide".

Frostodian · 2022-12-13T22:37:27+00:00

What in the fuck is wrong with "disregard"

Disacknowledge is the dumbest word I've ever heard

C-Dub178 · 2022-12-14T03:20:22+00:00

Almost makes you wonder if some of those attempts were just to get attention.

JMSB59 · 2022-12-14T00:11:07+00:00

There’s a really good quote from Dr. Jordan Peterson that went something like,

“women are more likely to be suicidal, but men are more likely to kill themselves. There is something inherent in men that is something like the brutal strength to inflict violence.”

something like that, basically women are more likely to feel suicidal but men are more likely to succeed in killing themselves.

(Succeed as in the purpose of suicide is to end one’s life not succeed as a good thing.

BlockBadger · 2022-12-14T00:42:16+00:00

In the U.K. I never tell the truth to mental health professionals, I’m here for a service, not that stupid suicide checklist to waste this valuable time. Just avoid a solid answer and get into whatever the meeting is for.

ABlindCookie · 2022-12-14T01:44:39+00:00

As much as im following and supporting men's rights activism, i actually never thought about how many s*icide attempts from men go unreported...

I just thought women attempt it more and men succeed more and thats that. But just like SA and domestic violence, men would underreport due to lack of support, kind of crazy

Financial_Window_990 · 2022-12-14T03:17:21+00:00

It's a huge lie. Women show up at hospitals from suicide attempts more often, men show up at morgues. The rate of women vs. Men hospitalized/self reporting does not count the successful attempts. When successful and unsuccessful attempts are combined men attempt more often as well as succeed in their attempt more often.

2022-12-14T03:52:43+00:00

The one and ONLY time i ever tried to talk about my attempt it was manipulated and straight up weaponized against me.

I wonder why more dudes dont report it!?

AmusiaCockatoo · 2022-12-14T04:04:07+00:00

Men commit suicide more. Women cry for help more.

sonthehedge42 · 2022-12-14T04:46:27+00:00

Men are better at killing than women, even when they're killing themselves

usernot_found · 2022-12-14T06:21:24+00:00

One for result and the other for attention

nambivpn · 2022-12-14T07:01:25+00:00

NCRB of India brings out a suicide report every year. Last year, three-fourth of those who committed suicide were men. There is no separate data on attempted suicide.

ijustdontcare74 · 2022-12-14T07:37:32+00:00

So basically men actually kill themselves, they actually go through with it so it often is not "self" reported. Women attempt suicide and self report it thus stopping the attempt. Am I the only one here who thinks this is more about garnering attention than genuine suicidal thoughts? How often have we heard stories of a GF threatening to off herself when her BF catches her cheating and leaves her? It's both an attention seeking action and an attempt at emotional manipulation. I'm wondering how much of these stats are skewed by these sort of events.

grandpapaUmberto · 2022-12-14T08:08:46+00:00

Knowing most feminists, even if somebody were to convince a feminist that there actually was a “strange” discrepancy between male and female suicide stats (among other stats) or the lack of support from society; in many of those cases (such as this one) literal misrepresentation of data to undermine the issues men face and balloon the issues women face, they would definitely just tie it to “the patriarchy” and how it’s also men’s fault for societal issues regarding men because society is “run by men”. As if whatever they consider “sOCiEtY”” is a big boat and the homogenous blob deemed “men” are at the helm to make sure women suffer.

Achack · 2022-12-14T14:28:25+00:00

One time this dude I was gaming with online said he was doing some medical training and they are taught to take females more seriously when they talk about suicide because they're more likely to attempt it. I was like bro if we're picking one wouldn't the person who is more likely to DIE from it be the more serious issue?

basementcrawler34 · 2022-12-14T14:57:15+00:00

probably because of the disgusting expectations for men to just bottle all their emotion up. Seriously, when will people realize our mental health matters just as much as women's??

cjgager · 2022-12-14T15:05:26+00:00

so by the comments - it is better to be dead than to ask for help? isn't that a bit self-defeating? this is just one aspect of "toxic masculinity" which needs to be changed - no one is less of a man if they fail at suicide! that is such an inane thought

Evening-Ear-6116 · 2022-12-14T02:39:30+00:00

Its because men are better than women at everything including killing ourselves

--throwaway · 2022-12-14T04:55:14+00:00

Men get the job done.

coloneleranmorad · 2022-12-13T21:34:01+00:00

they are not even good at committing suicide

Tamen_ · 2022-12-14T09:43:18+00:00

Where did you get the reported suicide attempts by gender figures from?

I can't find the gender ratio for suicide attempts in the cited source https://www.cdc.gov/suicide/suicide-data-statistics.html

When I have dived into self-reporting studies on suicide attempts (for instance here 8 years ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/FeMRADebates/comments/4j5cuz/suicide_attempts_and_how_men_are_ignored/ and here more recently: https://www.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/yufjau/comment/iwb4u3z/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 ) I have generally found that the gender ratio of suicide-attempts, while present, range from non-significant to much less than the oft-repeated "three times as many".

I did find another interesting omission on the CDC page on disparities in suicide: https://www.cdc.gov/suicide/facts/disparities-in-suicide.html

It lists the following groups that are more at risk of suicide than others:

Age
Lesbian, gay or bisexual
Veterans
Race and ethnicity
People with disabilities
Industry and occupation
Geographic region

I am sure you also can spot the omission.

Ok_Cupcake8963 · 2022-12-14T10:53:23+00:00

Extra information, well, who is more likely to be hospitalised after an attempt, would be useful.

Weebnonce · 2022-12-13T22:18:13+00:00

Cause men are more effective

BoringAccountName78 · 2022-12-13T21:11:39+00:00

Are these stats just for the US?

JimbosSonLikesBeef · 2022-12-14T03:27:35+00:00

Is this universal or just one country?

TracyMorganFreeman · 2022-12-14T06:15:15+00:00

What you do is *normalize* the two datasets: what portion of suicide attempts lead to suicide.

Do that and you get 11% of male suicide attempts lead to death by suicide, and 1.1% of female attempts do.

Title	Gender Suicide Paradox
Author	ArgueLater
Upvotes	1880
Comments	220
Date	December 13, 2022 7:33 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/zl4lwa/gender_suicide_paradox/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/gender-suicide-paradox.1143986 https://theredarchive.com/post/1143986

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