Women are largely correct in complaining about the average quality of men as romantic partners.

HammieFondler · 2025-04-19T14:41:48+00:00

Ok first of all, if you're going to make an argument about 4 billion people, you're gonna need some scientific evidence. Your personal experience might be applicable to the wider population of men but without any evidence, there's no way to know.

Second of all, what's your point? Because even if all of what you've said is true, you've still only made half an argument. If you're trying to claim that men are worse partners than women, then how good are women as partners? Let's do a full accounting if that's what you're going for. If you're trying to claim that most men aren't good partners on some absolute scale, then what's the scale? What traits are necessary to make a good partner?

John_Oakman · 2025-04-19T13:18:38+00:00

When society and the moral constructs of said society no longer punishes or put relevant disincentives on supposed "immoral" behavior, is it really that surprising that humans (who are worldly when they are in this world) react to worldly incentives?

Training-Cook3507 · 2025-04-19T12:17:07+00:00

Shockingly a lot of men would use the same descriptions about women.

Livid-Log7463 · 2025-04-19T19:31:49+00:00

By definition most men and women are average, and that most definitely includes women complaining about average men.

DellOptiplex7080 · 2025-04-19T12:54:23+00:00

There's really nothing to debate here. If you don't like them, don't interact, problem solved

nonquitt · 2025-04-20T08:08:45+00:00

Disagree. Men are awesome. This is sexist nonsense.

bv0724 · 2025-04-19T12:22:29+00:00

Humans in general suck more than what most of us are comfortable with. But then again, sucky people tend to end up together, and good people do better in finding other good people.

Artear · 2025-04-19T12:22:35+00:00

Wow, what a shocking and brave opinion to express on this subreddit. I can't be bothered to search through your profile, so I've just gotta ask; are you a self-hating man or a woman who pretends that she hates the people she's actually attracted to?

Whiskeymyers75 · 2025-04-21T05:04:54+00:00

If this is the average woman’s experience, perhaps it’s time to go into a caloric deficit. Because the majority of women are completely sloppy with their bodies but try and hide it through cosmetics and fashion. But underneath it all, her body still looks like a bowl of oatmeal or mashed potatoes. She really doesn’t have any room to talk.

Schleudergang1400 · 2025-04-19T12:31:31+00:00

it's of my opinion that most men are:

*Unempathetic beings.

Well your opinion is wrong. Look at studies on empathy.

*Don't care about their beauty at all, dress awfully, don't know how to get a good haircut.

I tend to agree. That was not a relevant trait to develop up until very recently, when it comes to mating. Now that it is, women need to reward the behavior they want men to show. Easy as that. Men are going to do whatever women want them to do, as long as they get rewarded with stuff they want.

*have misogynistic takes.

If saying that women in the west are not oppressed is misogynistic, then yes.

*Think their career or accomplishments in life is their identity and makes them worthwhile people to be around

That was true for the last century. You need to give male culture some time to adapt and reward the behavior you want to see. As long as women select men with high status careers as partners and sex partners, men will put a focus on that. If you start fucking the guy in accounting and neglect the 60hours a week workaholic with the fancy apartment and jobtitle, you will change what men make their identity of.

*Don't know how to manage friendships properly, or even have a social group to begin with. They're just terrible friends in general, most guys will not help you emotionally and are horrible at being affectionate with other men. They flat out neglect becoming a happy, socialble person who are GENUINELY able to love a d care for another human being without any shallow stipulations. Unable to bound "soul to soul."

Men manage their friendships differently than women. Women also make terrible "guy-friends" for the most part. You should drop the expectation that men are just defective women and should be more like women.

*Refuse to listen to women when it comes to dating. Think women are constantly lying about everything.

This is just a tiny minority of niceguys and incels. The overwhelming majority of men listen to men and women and have no problem with mating. No reason to be frustrated and "take it out" on women who are "lying".

Women get what they select for. The traits that the men have that you chose to have children with, are the men of the next generation. If men are aggressive, emotionally blunt, career and status driven, bad with caring about others, then this is because women have selected men with those traits to have children with, and not with the men you now want to have.

Sorry, biology isn't that fast. And it's also up for debate if women really changed what they go for in men, because their biology also doesn't change that fast. The bad boy is still very much in demand and procreating as well as ever.

DelDivision · 2025-04-19T13:20:06+00:00

So like people say to men who complain, if everyone around you is trash, what does that make the women? Majority are just as obese, socially awkward as the men with the only reason they get a pass is because they have the more valuable genitals. Outside of that if most men aren't motivated to improve for these women what does it say about them?

Dertross · 2025-04-19T14:10:59+00:00

*Unempathetic beings.

This is just flat out wrong. Otherwise, women would have never gotten the rights they have to begin with. It's like complaining that the person giving you money is too poor to give you more money while you're begging. gtfo of here

*Not in tune with their emotions at all, unable to look inward and see character flaws they might have. Thus, making it hard for them to actually work on relationships.

We are in tune with our emotions, we are just logical enough to know that in many cases that acting on your emotions only makes things worse.

*Don't care about their beauty at all, dress awfully, don't know how to get a good haircut.

There is no point in putting so much effort into appearance if it won't meaningfully improve your chances of mating.

*have misogynistic takes.

Says the one who kickstarted the OP with "men are unempathetic beings" lmao

*Think their career or accomplishments in life is their identity and makes them worthwhile people to be around (lots of fiction warning against this since the dawn of time). They find their meaning from hollow sources.

A man's career has so much influence on him because, without it, he would be living a completely different life. Take Elon Musk, remove his wealth, and he'll be just another homeless guy no one cares about

Terrible conversationalists and have the social skills of a sheltered homeschooled child.

lol is this a woman mistaking their ability to yap endlessly about meaningless bs with social skills?

*Don't know how to manage friendships properly, or even have a social group to begin with.

Friendship groups decay as men get older, and no one cares enough about men to be inclusive of them. Not really a man's fault; no one wants them around, unlike women.

*Refuse to listen to women when it comes to dating. Think women are constantly lying about everything.

If women weren't lying, there wouldn't be such a disconnect between stated and revealed preferences every single time it is researched.

Wonen are largely correct

Women are so correct meany males kept them oppressed for most of human history out of jealousy! /s

Comfortable-Dare-307 · 2025-04-19T18:08:12+00:00

Nope.

Studies in infants show that when male infants undergo preceived abondoment, or real pain, they cry more, scream more, whine more and take longer to calm down than female infants. Men are more empathetic than women and more emotional.

We may not be in tune with our emotions as well, but that's because we have been told since we were toddlers not to cry, man up and deal with pain, while being told to be nice to girls, don't hit them, but they can hit us, open doors, girls are fragile and we're supposed to protect them, and provide for thema etc. Girls are allowed to be in emotional pain, boys aren't. This is reinforced in childhood and adulthood mainly by women.

As for beauty, men do generally take care of themselves. But we, again, have been told that hygeine is feminine so some men are afraid to be seen as a girl.

Misogyny exists, but so does misandry as this entire post is. The difference is misgyony is seen as bad, whereas misandry is laughed at and even encouraged by women and men.

Why is taking pride in your career a bad thing. Again, this is how boys are raised--to be providers for girls.

As for conversation, you must be joking. I'll cover listening here too. Men are much better at communicating and listening. The problem is women think if we don't agree with them 100%, then that means we're not listening. We're listening, we just think you're full of shit. Also, communication is about timing. I'm a huge Chicago Bears football fan. Don't ask me how I think our marriage is going during a game! It's women who don't commuicate well. You think a smile and a couple glaces are enough for us to come talk to you. You think we should read your mind in relationships. You beat around the bush about what you want. Instead of being passive aggressive and putting the trash by the door without saying anything and watching us walk by it and then get mad that we didn't take it out, ask to do it. If you are direct and respectful, 9/10 men will do what you ask. Nothing should be "obvious". Like I used to tell my toddler, use your words.

As for friendships this isn't true either. Male friendships with other men are closer than female friendships with other women. Men don't gossip about each other behind their back. We don't expect anything to be done for us from our friends. We do share emotions with each other, but only when women are not around to judge us. We respect each other more.

wtknight · 2025-04-19T15:53:46+00:00

If men treat other men well and is a nice person to them, then unless a particular man is a complete misogynist, then he has the capability of treating a woman well, too. Perhaps it’s just that women are too demanding.

2025-04-19T17:52:40+00:00

You can make any demographic sound like the most evil people on the planet if you only pick their worst actors to talk about.

If I only listed out all the bad things and mistakes you've committed in your life, would you say that's an accurate representation of you as a person?

In my opinion any woman who holds these views about men should just refrain from dating and looking for relationships. And I'm sure many of them do so happily, without spouting out misandrist takes on the internet.

The men on here complaining about women's dating behavior are typically met with disinterest and lack of understanding from women. Mostly because they're full of shit as well. It would only be fair for the same energy to be reflected back to the women who do the same.

I don't think it needs to be said that a woman is just as capable of horrible behavior in dating as a man. Most bad behaviour people complain about here isn't even limited to a single gender. It's telling how in most threads here, the most common rebuttal is just "well men/women do it too."

insert_dead_memes · 2025-04-20T08:30:49+00:00

bait of the year award

AhmadMansoot · 2025-04-19T12:25:59+00:00

Women go out of their way to date the worst guys just bc they're hot and then blame every guy for it who just wants to be a good person. Always amazing. Attractive men are way more misogynist than the average looking guy so keep that in mind when women talk misogyny in men. Women dating attractive men is just a reverse of the normal men want women and women can choose. Now the guy can choose and suddenly the whole gender is awful.

Protomize · 2025-04-19T12:51:48+00:00

So explain the higher divorce and domestic violence rates with lesbian couples… 🍿

throwawaytradesman2 · 2025-04-19T12:27:35+00:00

Hi OP

Lots to unpack here. I wouldn't say I don't care about my looks. I work out, eat right, etc. But, I was NEVER raised with any fashion sense, and I grew up in poverty on top of that. How is a guy to really start? What's poverty? I wore the same pair shoes in high school. Just one pair. But, i am to blame for that, I spent the money I made working on food and drugs.

I work in the Trades. Everything I have gets ruined.

But. I agree men's and my wardrobe especially is lacking. But, where does one start? Especially with oddball body shapes?

CuckCake321 · 2025-04-19T12:44:58+00:00

While I agree all these points you made are nice for a man to have. Most of these things aren't going to change the situation a lot of men are in nowadays. Getting a haircut isn't going to make a guy taller. Having a nice personality isn't going to make his penis bigger either. Most of the things that actually make men attractive to women are things they cannot change.

Believe me. If these things you mentioned actually worked. The way men date would change over night. The real reason men act the way they do is because women reward this behavior. And other men see this and copy that behavior in hopes of getting the same result. So until women change who they give out sex and relationships too. Nothing is going to change.

EsotericRonin · 2025-04-19T14:58:18+00:00

Most of these guys know they're genuinely awful to be around. They know they only see women as a means towards satisifying their sexual urges. They just don't care.

justdontsashay · 2025-04-19T12:19:37+00:00

This describes a number of men on this sub, but doesn’t describe men as a whole. This would be a really depressing way to view the entirety of the gender I’m attracted to.

Alarmed_Load8145 · 2025-04-19T14:47:25+00:00

The whole post is based on just world fallacy and the fallacy of composition, i.e., some of the men I know are X, thus all men are X. Based on what you wrote, it seems that when you say that men are emotionally stunted, what you are really saying is that you wish men would feminize themselves. Men and women are different. We don't socialize the same way women do, but that doesn't mean we don't care about each other. We don't sit around a table endlessly talking about our feelings, but that doesn't mean that we'd be against sharing our feelings with each other. We can be friends without sending each other a barrage of messages every day about which shoes we are going to be purchasing next or talking shit about how Becky from the sales department dresses up or how Shaneequa's salad makes her breath smell. In terms of dating, asking a woman for dating advice is like asking a blind man what it's like to see. Ever heard what their advice consists of? Just be yourself and suddenly, a whole lot of prospects will come rolling in. With respect, as long as that is what their advice is, no man will ask a woman for dating advice.

GridReXX · 2025-04-19T17:22:52+00:00

My counter is wrt your title.

I would say that it’s not just about romantic relationships.

Many have observed that men more so than women seem to not be as good at the maintenance, consideration, active empathy, and mutual care/effort that interpersonal relationships require.

I think these limitations echo throughout ALL of their relationships. Not just romantic. It’s a detriment to their platonic and familial relationships too.

I saw this tweet today.

<image>

Many people replied to his short-sighted tweet with sarcasm à la “local man discovers wife is better at maintaining her friendships” or “man surprised that friendship sometimes means passive maintenance and effort”

Others simply laughed, “and men wonder why there’s a loneliness epidemic or why none of them have friends.”

ViolentShallot · 2025-04-19T16:05:22+00:00

First, let me take a funny, wild guess:

You haven't had a single relationship lasting longer than a year.

Unempathetic beings.

I've found an order more magnitude of empathy from men. It has more to do about who are you as a person than those around you.

Not in tune with their emotions at all, unable to look inward and see character flaws they might have. Thus, making it hard for them to actually work on relationships.

Not being willing to share their thoughts with people that are likely to either weaponize them or spread them around doesn't matter we aren't in tune with them.

In the same venue, not having the same emotions as women doesn't mean not being in tune with them. It's just that being in tune with non-femenine-approved emotions is just frowned on.

have misogynistic takes.

...Every take women dislike is considered motivated by hate for women.

Think their career or accomplishments in life is their identity and makes them worthwhile people to be around (lots of fiction warning against this since the dawn of time). They find their meaning from hollow sources.

Now this one is interesting, as a few paragraphs up you're full on blasting men for "not being in tune with their emotions", but immediately after you proceed to bash and ridiculize those who are in tune with their emotions to find meaning in work well done and hard earned achievements. Remember what I said to that?

Because it fucking fits.

Hold on, I'll repeat it again:

not having the same emotions as women doesn't mean not being in tune with them. It's just that being in tune with non-femenine-approved emotions is just frowned on.

Example: this fucking guy, right here, ridiculizing and demonizing men for being content and finding meaning in the fruit of their labor.

Because we don't find meaning in the stuff women find meaning in, it's not even acknowledged. It only counts as the right feeling if women approve of it. Well, women and this "man".

Terrible conversationalists and have the social skills of a sheltered homeschooled child.

I'll say it once: the fact you're only interested in what women say and conversation with women says more about you than about men. And on top of that, you're part of the problem of women thinking they are interesting only because men listen to their drivel patiently.

Don't know how to manage friendships properly, or even have a social group to begin with. They're just terrible friends in general, most guys will not help you emotionally and are horrible at being affectionate with other men. They flat out neglect becoming a happy, socialble person who are GENUINELY able to love a d care for another human being without any shallow stipulations. Unable to bound "soul to soul."

Remember a moment ago when I mentioned that only women-approved emotions were OK to have? This is the same issue. Exactly the same. Men show care and men show love and men show emotionality. Men can be absolutely amazing friends. You are divinizing women by making their way of interacting the "true soul to soul one". This is a serious case of putting women in a pedestal and only considering things worthy if they come from them.

Refuse to listen to women when it comes to dating. Think women are constantly lying about everything.

I'm just going to politely laugh in your face about this. Advice from men has always been an order of magnitude better when it comes to dating. And again, I'm betting my right ball that you'd be all like "yeah female advice about how to flirt with men is better, duh!". You're just sadly, irreparably biased.

The answers redpill guys come to is to become the most shallow human being possible, finding worth in money, not caring about friends, get value in life from fucking bitches to sleep, etc

No, it hasn't. The "answer" redpill gives to those who want to become more attractive is "Develop confidence, charisma, and competence, and improve your looks".

But once again you have women in a pedestal and would never dare to think women are so shallow as to care about looks. It actually approaches laughingstock range, even for women. Not that they'll say that to your face, might make you a little less convenient.

SamuraiGoblin · 2025-04-19T12:27:44+00:00

Or maybe, just maybe, men are...different.

Men are just as capable of empathy, but express it differently. For me, the difference between men and women can be summed up by the adage, "give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish, and you feed him for a lifetime."

In my experience, women want to help people immediately. They have lots of empathy, and that's a wonderful thing. They want to feed hungry people and soothe pain.

Whereas men temper their empathy with more logic, preferring to actually solve the problem rather than alleviate the symptom. Such tempering of empathy can often be seen by women as coldness, even cruelness. But it's not, it's just different. "Got to be cruel to be kind." It's trading short term comfort for long term wellbeing, something women as not as good at.

Society needs both. I hate posts like this with a divisive, hateful message, whether it's "men are shit" or "women are shit." The truth is that we evolved complimentary capabilities and sensibilities.

Men and women have different dating strategies. Both groups evolved skills for the survival and betterment of the species.

RelativeYak7 · 2025-04-19T12:22:40+00:00

My main complaint was being lied to about a man's interest only being sex, I can work with everything else. It sucks that every interaction with a man has to revolve around my suspicion he just wants to fork whether that be a tennis instructor, old guy at church, business associate etc.

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BaldieMonkey · 2025-04-19T12:37:59+00:00

I guess that depends on place and countries.

But I have a great group of male friends and I've never received more support, understanding and caring than from my male friends. They are my bros, we lived it all together, we will live it all again.

Most women on the other hand, even those with which I'm only friend with, have been dimissing most of the time and don't want to listen to anything or help you with struggles, "it's not my role they say", yet they demand us to help them and insult all the men in the world when they have struggles with their boyfriends. The same happened for empathy and emotional support.

So yeah, guess it depends.

As for the "don't care about their beauty", that's mostly true, but also due to the fact that most of the time, it just comes from our genetic. An unattractive man that dress well will be perceived as "doing to much to compensate" and an attractive man not dressing at all will be seen as "laid back, not superficial, humble".

That's why most of us just don't care, but that's changing with the self improvement trend.

But then again, we live in a world where everyone, especially women, complain about the "beauty expectations" and how it is too much work, money and pression to care about your own beauty, but we should do something everyone is complaining about ?

And for the mysoginistic takes, well, without a proper example we can't really answer that but labelling all men mysoginists is not really a proof of a proper argumentation.

AsturaeConiecto · 2025-04-23T13:43:34+00:00

"men bad, CMV" is that your post? And you dare to even call men misogynistic while having all these misandrist takes?

*Unempathetic beings.

Men aren't enempathetic, they're just not sensitive to women's emotions and struggles, which a lot of women actually seek in other men because that complements them.

Not in tune with their emotions at all,

From whose perspective? Do you think men perceive women as in tune with their emotions and inward character flaws?

Everything else you said is equally solipsism full of exagerations that women do not even make. You simply don't like or love men, IDK what gender or sexuality you are, but I'd rather listen to someone actually into men to discuss what are the flaws of masculinity. You can't possibly believe a world exist with women being themselves and men being themselves, and women to be categorically existing right and men wrong. There's zero beginning of philosophical consistency to any of this.

lovelesslibertine · 2025-04-23T13:45:26+00:00

Almost all of the things you listed, besides having empathy for women (which is, observably, wrong) are not things women are supposed to value for men for. This is where you're going wrong.

Your whole list is basically traits which women are supposed to have, and be valued for. Like most feminists, you're willfully oblivious to what men do for women in society. Because these things are done indirectly, and you don't have to interact with these men, or offer them anything in return. Men build, maintain, protect and pay for everything and everyone. How can you say men have no empathy for women, when men constructed society around women, and servicing women's needs?

It's crazy how spoiled modern women are. Look around you. Look at everything you own and rely on every day. Almost all of it comes from male labour, male invention, male sacrifice and male resources. And that is what women are supposed to value men for. But, because women have divine access to all of that, and have become accustomed to accessing it all freely, they don't even care about it, or see it, and they want more.

Kingpremium_premo · 2025-05-21T11:05:01+00:00

Ok so let’s say that every thing you said is true 1 then why do women go out of their way to get into a relationship with a man knowing all this and I’m not talking about the exceptions out there women tend to prefer more of a structure relationship for validation purposes? And 2 why do women seek them out then complain knowing exactly what they voluntarily signed up for, then realize that oh I don’t like X Y or Z about said man and also just a quick fact that you could google male friends groups last significantly longer then women’s for the simple fact that not every relationship is based on emotions but on loyalty fostered over years of shared experiences similar but very different this whole men vs women shi is stupid asf 😂

Outside_Memory5703 · 2025-04-19T13:58:16+00:00

Doesn’t matter if they’re still fucking, dating and marrying them.

Actions > complaining

SurroundWide447 · 2025-04-19T14:50:58+00:00

To the men in here arguing that men do make good friends on average answering this.

If men were SUCH amazing friends, would men be consistently reporting high levels of isolation and loneliness.

freekin-bats11 · 2025-04-19T12:44:38+00:00

A bold post to make on a sub that seems like r/ incel2.0! I agree with a lot of your assessment (though fashion is a bit subjective imo). Lol i await the comments eagerly

Edit: typo

Title	Women are largely correct in complaining about the average quality of men as romantic partners.
Author	SurroundWide447
Upvotes	0
Comments	256
Date	April 19, 2025 12:13 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1k2uvvf/women_are_largely_correct_in_complaining_about/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/women-are-largely-correct-in-complaining-about-the.1550045 https://theredarchive.com/post/1550045

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