Feminism was illogical at the start. It was about women's equal rights, which is a contradiction. Change this view.

AntonioSLodico · 2025-04-20T23:46:06+00:00

> You can't be demanding equality while emphasizing difference

Equal does not mean identical.

Blue__Ronin · 2025-04-20T23:57:40+00:00

Change it? Easy:

Feminism was illogical at the start. It was about women’s equal rights, which is a contradiction. You can’t demand equality while emphasizing difference

This is a false equivalence. Equality in rights does not mean sameness in every aspect of identity. The feminist movement has always acknowledged biological and social differences between men and women—but the demand was for equal access to opportunities, representation, legal protection, and autonomy.

You can acknowledge gendered experiences while insisting that those differences shouldn’t translate to inequality. For example, advocating for maternity leave doesn’t contradict wanting women to have equal job opportunities—it supports a world where their unique roles aren’t penalized.

They criticize the patriarchy while simultaneously creating spaces that mirror its exclusivity

Exclusive spaces created by feminists—like women’s shelters, support groups, or women-led conferences—are responses to systemic exclusion, not attempts to replicate oppression. Marginalized groups often need safe spaces to heal, strategize, or thrive, especially when broader society hasn’t made room for them.

These are corrective, not oppressive. There’s a difference between fighting for liberation and creating temporary safe zones for empowerment and recovery.

Their message wants to deny the differences that make us beautiful, instead of celebrating unique strengths

Modern feminism embraces difference—and increasingly includes intersectional perspectives that account for varied experiences based on race, class, gender identity, etc. The idea isn’t to erase what makes people unique, but to ensure that these differences are not used as a basis for discrimination or restriction.

In fact, many feminists celebrate femininity, masculinity, and everything in between—but want these expressions to be chosen freely, not dictated by outdated roles.

rosephase · 2025-04-20T23:49:03+00:00

Feminism was a fight for the right to vote at the start. Which was needed, logical and actionable.

You don’t know the history of feminism and you sound naive as hell trying to make statements about it.

MyLastBestChance · 2025-04-21T00:22:22+00:00

Divisive and illogical are two very different things. Advocating for equal rights for both genders is obviously going to be divisive for the gender that has enjoyed basic rights that have given them advantages for centuries. That’s not the same as it being illogical. It’s illogical to try to deny equal rights to half the population just because the other half wants to be considered superior by default.

SurroundWide447 · 2025-04-20T23:58:32+00:00

What kind of start? Women being able to vote and work is nothing but a good thing. Define the type of feminism this is talking about because I would HOPE that we all agree with 2nd wave feminism at least.

fucksiclepizza · 2025-04-20T23:44:46+00:00

What specific strengths and qualities do you believe each gender brings to the table?

IcyTrapezium · 2025-04-21T05:13:49+00:00

Equality under the law was the emphasis of first wave feminism. That has nothing to do with sameness. It just means everyone is a full citizen.

Equity is what the focus has been on for some time, not equality. Equity is about justice and fairness. My mom is in a wheelchair. Before the ADA she has equal rights as able bodied people to stairs under law. But that wasn’t equitable. Ramps are. Before gay people could marry they had equal rights to marry someone of the opposite sex. But that wasn’t equitable because that’s not who they love and want to marry.

SnooCats37 · 2025-04-21T04:08:44+00:00

I don’t think you understand what being equal is, being equal doesn’t mean giving everyone the same, it means to give everyone the same opportunities by putting things in place so everyone starts on an equal footing.

I_DOM_UR_PATRIARCHY · 2025-04-21T00:34:34+00:00

The poster doesn't have a good understanding of what feminism is. Feminism is an intellectual tradition, not a single point of view or thesis. In that respect it's like liberalism or pragmatism. The significance of that is that there isn't a single point of view or policy position which represents feminism - different feminists disagree with each other.

So for example, when the poster says:

You can't be demanding equality while emphasizing difference

What feminists, specifically, are they talking about? Some feminists emphasize differences between men and women (e.g. Carol Gilligan) while other feminists (e.g. Simone de Beauvoi) contend that those differences are largely socially constructed.

Likewise:

They also criticize the patriarchy while simultaneously creating spaces that mirror its exclusivity.

Some feminists have advocated for separate spaces (feminist separatism) while others have critiqued the idea of gender separated bathrooms.

The point is that the poster you're quoting has very obviously never taken the time to read or understand anything about feminism. And they don't cite any sources for what they claim "feminism" says, so we're being asked to take the word of a person who's flaunting their weak education.

But beyond the poster's lack of education, the substance and reasoning are also pretty worthless. For example, the poster writes "[y]ou can't be demanding equality while emphasizing difference" but why not? We do it in lots of other areas - you can recognize that white and black people in the US have been treated very differently while also still insisting on equal treatment.

Also, your addition isn't very strong either:

that any ideology that focuses only one segment of society, is by default going to be divisive.

Feminism doesn't inherently focus on one segment of society. Some feminists focus on women's issues, or issues faced by black women, etc., but there are also feminists (e.g. Bell Hooks) who write on men's issues.

One of my philosophy professors in college used to say that the easiest way to embarrass yourself is to show that you didn't understand the position you were trying to attack. That's what you've done here.

NoDanaOnlyZuuI · 2025-04-21T00:39:14+00:00

Feminism isn’t a contradiction. It’s like saying, “Everyone should have a fair shot at the game”, but not forcing everyone to play the same way. It recognizes men and women are different, but those differences shouldn’t be a reason for unequal treatment. Feminists aren’t denying differences, they’re just saying everyone should have the same rights regardless. Creating spaces for women isn’t copying the patriarchy, it’s just making room where they’ve been left out. Feminism’s not about blaming anyone, it’s about making sure everyone gets a fair chance.

Outside_Memory5703 · 2025-04-21T01:21:38+00:00

Legal equality isn’t about differences

Robot_Alchemist · 2025-04-21T00:27:03+00:00

The original 1st wave feminists were focused on equal rights in voting and representation - that isn’t unique and they didn’t go into the patriarchy stuff

kivmorth · 2025-04-21T00:05:06+00:00

The problem with not having gender equality, or even just a fight over it - because nobody is ever going to agree over what equal rights actually looks like - is that you’re left with society deciding which gender is better

Is parenting more important or is the factory?

Is emotional health more important to teach kids than engineering?

Is being emotionally in tune better or is being factually correct better?

Now, look, someone is going to jump down my throat about discrimination but in reality, you can have two boxes that people put things in without those boxes being determinative.

Just because parenting is associated with femininity doesn’t mean all women are built for it

Just because height and strength are associated with masculinity doesn’t mean all men are built that way

But in general, if something is considered separate, it is then unequal.

If you see women’s rights as something separate from your own, that’s the thing you’re going to lay awake worrying about

Same can be said for the rights of any minority or general group of people

If you see their rights as something distinct from your own, you’re opening up yours to being taken away in some other direction.

Maybe it won’t be across gender lines, but there’s enough identity crosscurrents where the ripple effect of disregarding any semi-large group’s rights and suffering will effect everybody else

Downtown_Cat_1745 · 2025-04-21T01:50:56+00:00

So you think that we should go back to 16th century Venice when women were barely even taught to read? That’s better for society?

AutoModerator · 2025-04-20T23:37:41+00:00

Attention!

You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.
For "Debate" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.
If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.
OP you can choose your own flair according to these guidelines., just press Flair under your post!

Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

AutoModerator · 2025-04-20T23:37:42+00:00

Hi OP,

You've chosen to identify your thread as a Debate. As such you are expected to actively engage in your own thread with a mind open to being changed. PPD has guidelines for what that involves.

OPs author must genuinely hold the position and you must be open to having your view challenged.

An unwillingness to debate in good faith may be inferred from one or several of the following:

Ignoring the main point of a comment, especially to point out some minor inconsistency;

Refusing to make concessions that an alternate view has merit;

Focusing only on the weaker arguments;

Only having discussions with users who agree with your position.

Failure to keep to this higher standard (we only apply to Debate OPs) may result in deletion of the whole thread.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

nonquitt · 2025-04-21T06:02:21+00:00

Feminism as used here is too nebulous of a term for this to be a falsifiable claim. High level though, all of the civil rights movements get a little wonky after they are somewhat decoupled from tangible policy outcomes.

relish5k · 2025-04-21T20:33:48+00:00

Feminism, from the start, was about changing the culture so that women would not face discrimination legally, politically and economically. Once those aims were underway, the next phase of feminism was to make sure women would not experience life-ruining consequences for behaving like men sexually, so the goal of that movement was to change standards socially and culturally.

The logic underpinning these movements is that women are not so different from men as to justify legal, political, economic, social and cultural discrimination and restricted opportunities. I see no contradiction.

Kman17 · 2025-04-21T00:03:01+00:00

Feminism is a women’s empowerment movement that is justified on women having less overall power in society.

Thus, from a feminists perspective, they are not obliged to worry about inequity that favored them because in the aggregate they’re still short straw.

That’s not illogical. It might be wrong, but not illogical.

There is a very good argument that we’ve gone as far as we can tearing down barriers, and the barriers that remain are inexorably tied to related privilege women enjoy. Which means it is now necessary doe them do let go of privileges or perceived hypocrisy to make or next level.

savethebros · 2025-04-21T03:02:43+00:00

There are ways women have it bad, feminism focuses on that.

Feminism is one part of the greater gender issues discourse which analyzes the impact of rigid gender norms on what opportunities, however big or small, an individual has access to.

VladTheGlarus · 2025-04-21T03:36:45+00:00

The equality part made sence... 50 years ago. But we already have equal rights by law. Hell, women even have more.

But since then feminism has produced hateful women who fear men and blame them for all their problems. The radical feminists have taken over and turned it into a hate movement. It needs to die.

MachineMan718 · 2025-04-26T20:47:45+00:00

Women don’t have rights. They only have privileges given to them by men. The human male holds the monopoly on violence, meaning it just takes enough men or the right man to completely reverse feminism.

Look at the Middle East if you don’t believe me.

growframe · 2025-04-21T00:11:01+00:00

Feminism isn't about equal rights, it's about women's rights, period.

Feminism has never claimed to fight for complete gender equality, it's a movement centered on female emancipation and the advancement of women's rights.

ThrowRA-Two448 · 2025-04-20T23:55:06+00:00

Feminism had every sense at it's begining, because women were 2nd class citizens.

Modern feminism became illogical, because currently we have assimetry.

Feminism is super analitic about any disadvantage women have, and any advantage men have, while not only ignoring but censoring every advantage women have and any disadvantage men have. Feminism also directs all "equality" efforts in their favour.

As such modern feminism is not about equality... it's just an interest group.

Unhappy_Offer_1822 · 2025-04-21T01:27:23+00:00

its like i make a social media site and give every single user permissions to post

they can post wherever and complain about whatever i really dont care and it really doesnt matter

thats all it really is

UndeniablyGone · 2025-04-22T19:13:16+00:00

Oh look, another boy afraid of girl cooties. Now, he must study the differences between the sexes to find out once and for all who's better xD 🤓

You know, most children grow out of that phase eventually, but I guess some people are outliers. You keep studying over there, man. I'm sure it really is going to matter someday lol

Title	Feminism was illogical at the start. It was about women's equal rights, which is a contradiction. Change this view.
Author	TheRedPillRipper
Upvotes	0
Comments	204
Date	April 20, 2025 11:37 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1k3znvj/feminism_was_illogical_at_the_start_it_was_about/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/feminism-was-illogical-at-the-start-it-was-about.1550179 https://theredarchive.com/post/1550179

Comments