Aside from it being morally wrong, there’s no logical reason to be against recognizing the pay gap between genders

Vadoff · 2026-04-10T16:44:08+00:00

there are absolutely studies out there showing that even when all factors are taken into account (type of job / hours worked / education level / etc) - there is still a gap between the genders which needs to change.

What studies are you looking at exactly (please cite your sources)? From all the data I've seen, if you control for those factors they're paid exactly the same (within 1% pay gap).

The often cited pay gap of 81 cents for every dollar men earn, is the result of taking the average pay of all men and comparing it to the average pay of all women. But this is mostly due to more men working higher paying jobs (STEM), as well as women's career growth being slower due to pregnancies.

Grow_peace_in_Bedlam · 2026-04-10T16:55:58+00:00

Is it really women being forced out of choosing high paying jobs, or is it that the provider expectation placed on men means that women can choose jobs based on what they're passionate about, even if the pay is not that great, knowing that they can likely expect their partner (whom society pressured to sacrifice passion for pay) to subsidize them?

Ohnoes_in_distress · 2026-04-10T17:38:38+00:00

Do you care equally as much about cases when there is a reversed pay gap and women earn more? What do you do about it?

Examples:

those working full-time between the ages of 16 and 24, the gender pay gap has reversed. This means that for much of Gen Z (...) women on average are slightly higher paid than men
Top-earning female models in 2025 made 148% more than their male counterparts. For instance, the highest-paid female model earned $15 million, while the top male model earned around $6 million. (...) 68% of global fashion ad campaigns in 2025 featured female-only casts, 23% were mixed-gender, and just 9% were male-only.
In my country (EU/OECD member) women's retirement age is 5 years lower than men's - 60yo vs 65 yo. But if a woman chooses to work past this age, she doesn't pay income tax. It translates to ~5% pay increase on a national average pay (including a tax-free allowance for every worker), and to a ~5% more vs a man doing the very same job for the very same gross pay.

welphellothere01 · 2026-04-10T16:54:26+00:00

White women make more than black and brown men.

So what are we really talking about here. Feminism worked but only for white women and they didn’t bring the women of color along. So when you say this add context to race please.

I am so tired of women doing this tap dance, par gap shit when it worked. White women are third on the list behind Asian men. Black and brown women are where they have always been. The bottom. They need to stop looking at men as the problem and place white women there.

efficientaficionado · 2026-04-10T20:35:32+00:00

What pay gap, though? Last I checked, women in their 20s and 30s outearn men; and the women who keep bringing up the pay-gap non-issue are mostly in their 20s and 30s... It's pure hubris.

Women work careers where they earn more than men when starting their careers (teachers, nurses, etc) because of equity, but the cost of equity is slower wage growth compared to careers that haven't seen the invisible hand known as equity; where men earn more when they work jobs where you start modestly low and have to build yourself up to a level of expertise such that you are compensated well for it.

Combatenjoyer23 · 2026-04-10T16:33:02+00:00

What is the pay gap exactly? If I see a staff accountant role advertising a 55k salary and both me and a woman apply for it, that salary is going to be adjusted based on our genders? That's not a thing that happens. Also, if they were planning on paying the woman less, let's say $45k instead, why wouldn't they just hire the woman? The whole things makes no sense, especially in the context of standardized jobs and jobs with a posted salary.

Large_Bed_4251 · 2026-04-10T21:57:07+00:00

Here's the thing - feminists have been claiming for at least 50 years that the entire 77% figure was due to discrimination. It's only within the last decade or two that most people learned this number was bullshit.

Now they have moved the goalposts to either a much smaller discrepancy or a bunch of other rationalizations as to how women are basically coerced away from high paying jobs. It's literally the "sexism of the gaps" fallacy, and it keeps withering away the more we learn.

Much like religion, "the wage gap" is just a continually receding pocket of ignorance.

abaxeron · 2026-04-10T20:45:41+00:00

Actual, tangible discrimination of schoolchildren resulting in lower college enrollment is more important than imaginary discrimination of adults.

Discrimination is already illegal; you generally can't make it twice-illegal, ne bis in idem.

By some estimates 90-95% of discrimination lawsuits filed by women are thrown out as completely baseless; even a won court case costs employers money; if women stop creating additional costs and risks for employers by filing so many bullshit discrimination lawsuits, employers will have more confidence in hiring women and more money to pay them.

No, women are not expected this or that; it's called neuroticism; to paraphrase one abrasive yet witty PPD regular, is this "Patriarchy" in the room with us right now?

Men spend money on mothers, wives, and daughters. Women spend money on divorce lawyers.

TermAggravating8043 · 2026-04-10T16:54:55+00:00

Let’s be honest, the gender pay gap is mainly caused by children. When a women has a kid, there’s a high chance she goes part time or changes job to something more flexible or leaves it all together to save on childcare.

The problem we have as a society, is we still undervalue unpaid labours like childcare and care work, which traditionally were always dumped on woman.

Feminism gave women equal footing with men, so they could choose to work instead of being stuck raising kids. And we can see it everywhere with the birth rates decreasing. Nobody wants to do something that’s not paid and undervalued even if it’s essential to our species survival

Either we start valuing care work and pay these people for the role we do, Men start stepping up more in doing childcare and care work and stop expecting this to just be something quietly done by women Or we get rid of feminism and force half the population into basic slavery

Junior_Ad_3086 · 2026-04-10T20:02:14+00:00

when men do better than women, it's systemic discrimination. when women do better than men, it's individual failure on the men's part.

equality of outcome is an illogical concept. the gender pay gap makes perfect sense given male variability and wealth/income distribution in a capitalist system.

Outrageous-Floor-424 · 2026-04-10T16:25:08+00:00

Why am I obligated to fight for the benefits of a group of people that don't ever care to fight for me?

growframe · 2026-04-10T16:35:34+00:00

So of course, my questions are - Are women discouraged from taking on, or systemically discriminated against pursuing, higher paying jobs, such as in STEM fields? Are women not taken seriously or considered for jobs in fields that are more physically intense like in construction or the trades? Are women expected to take on an unfair amount of household work, which leads to them not being able to work as much as men?

But none of those are a pay gap. Those are employment and choice gaps.

But my overall argument, there’s just no reason to be against women advocating for themselves. We should absolutely support them closing the pay gap, that obviously helps them tremendously but having more diverse representation in the workforce, and having them being treated equally and fairly, helps everyone.

Are you looking for misogynists to argue that arbitrarily paying women less is good?

essokinesis1 · 2026-04-10T16:33:36+00:00

I think the first question when it comes to STEM is whether women actually want to work in STEM. Are there a lot of women dreaming of doing STEM but feel they're being discriminated against?

TheRedPillRipper · 2026-04-10T19:18:15+00:00

there’s no logical reason to be against recognizing the pay gap between genders.

Whenever this issue arises, my first question is always this; which organisation pays men more than women based solely on their sex? Objectively, if one group of people will do the exact same job for less money? Companies would be flocking to outsource their work to that group. Exclusively.

If there was one company that legally pays women less than men because of their sex, there might be validity to the wage gap argument. Unfortunately discrimination does not set the market. Competition does. It is that simple.

Popeoath · 2026-04-11T10:08:16+00:00

We can close the pay gap when we close the dating spending gap.

Young women make more than young men in many cities yet STILL often expect the man to pay for dates. Kinda bullshit if you care anything about fairness.

penislmaoo · 2026-04-12T00:26:39+00:00

I think that is rediculous.

I will say this tho: initial data is suggesting that the trend may be REVERSING among higher-paid gen Z! aka among higher paid professionals, gen Z women are now slightly exceeding thier male counterparts!

Gold_Sheepherder6569 · 2026-04-10T17:05:53+00:00

So of course, my questions are - Are women discouraged from taking on, or systemically discriminated against pursuing, higher paying jobs, such as in STEM fields?

They're not in the modern era, in fact if qualifications are equal women are more likely to be hired in certain STEM jobs: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4611984/

Are women expected to take on an unfair amount of household work, which leads to them not being able to work as much as men?

Never married women have a worse pay gap with their male counterparts than married women so I don't think the household work argument is particularly strong: https://www.forbes.com/sites/nataliecolley/2023/04/17/single-women-face-steepest-gender-wealth-penalty-according-to-report/

And all this to say, there are absolutely studies out there showing that even when all factors are taken into account (type of job / hours worked / education level / etc) - there is still a gap between the genders which needs to change.

The gap is 1 cent when all these factors are taken into account in the US, sure this gap should change but there are already laws in place to stop pay and hiring discrimination, you can call for all pay to be public which is fine by me but I do think most people will want that.

But my overall argument, there’s just no reason to be against women advocating for themselves. We should absolutely support them closing the pay gap, that obviously helps them tremendously but having more diverse representation in the workforce, and having them being treated equally and fairly, helps everyone.

And if you feel an instinct to bring up something relating to men when the pay gap is brought up - like how men attend college at a lower rate - you must think, why did it take you until women started advocating for themselves, for you to even bring that up? Is it genuine, or is it just reactionary?

The reason why there is push back in most cases is because they leave out, either because they don't know or are being deliberately dishonest, that it comes down to personal choices which any individual can chose to change for themselves. Now if you say well society should change to close even the gap due to individual choices okay that is worth considering depending on the policy(although with the women/girl's specific STEM programs and policy, I would says society already does this) but that lead to the male college attendance question, why don't these same people advance policy to promote more male college attendance?

The reason why some people bring it up is because of clear hypocrisy, that a male advantage in society even if it is due to female choices needs to be eliminated but nothing should be done about the female advantage.

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Altruistic_Look_7868 · 2026-04-10T17:35:50+00:00

At least in developed countries, the pay gap stems from mothers still disproportionately responsible for majority of childcare or childrearing duties compared to fathers, forcing them to take time off work or having to neglect work more often than fathers. This doesn't even include the effects of pregnancy and post-partum.

I don't see what's so hard to comprehend. How many SAHM do you see compared to SAHF? Societal expectations on mothers are magnitudes higher compared to fathers. That's the unfair part.

Many households are dual income these days, and working mums have the shittiest end of the stick. There are no off days or breaks: if you're not working, you need to take care if your kids. If you're not doing either, there's a never ending list of household chores to take care off.

Your stress will be exacerbated if you have a shitty partner or husband, who thinks his only job is to make money and be the spare parent, while you do the lion's share it of house work.

chile-pica · 2026-04-10T17:51:20+00:00

I’m all for them advocating for themselves. Here’s how it typically goes when I get all “rah-rah you go girl” in support of my female brethren

“Women should go ask for raises, it seems they lack a level of assertiveness due to some social programming”

This usually elicits a response something like this.

“Aaaaaaack! Don’t tell me about women’s issues! Women are perfectly capable of being assertive and asking for raises”

It’s like… yeah…. That’s what I said…

DGenerationMC · 2026-04-10T21:57:48+00:00

Isn't morality subjective?

Outside_Memory5703 · 2026-04-11T18:24:01+00:00

The gap is mostly related to kids. That is why I don’t see it ever closing

bigdonut100 · 2026-04-11T20:26:34+00:00

Washington Post - Fact checking the 2014 State of the Union Address
Department of Labor study - An Analysis of Reasons for the Disparity in Wages Between Men and Women
AAUW - When controlled for education and career choices, women make 93% "of what men earned," p 20, 34
New York Times - Home Depot settles discrimination suit for $87.5 million
Stockholm School of Economics - Study finding that even in egalitarian societies, women are less likely to negotiate for salaries
Journal of Personality and Social Psychology - "Who Goes to the Bargaining Table? The Influence of Gender and Framing on the Initiation of Negotiation" (Small, et al)
Monster.com - Women's salaries are equal to, or outearn men in engineering fields
Washington Post - Women less likely to negotiate for salaries at Carnegie Mellon
JSTOR - Gender differences in job satisfaction
Science Direct - Why are women so happy at work?
Springer.com - Job satisfaction may vary by occupation
New York Times - Money, Gender and Job Satisfaction
Bloomberg - Number of US Ralph Lauren employees estimated at 14,000
Glass Door - Ralph Lauren cashier salary estimates
Forbes - Ralph Lauren CEO salary *Note: The hourly rate was calculated by assuming there were roughly 20 cashiers at the flagship store making an average of $19,770 per year.
Pew Research Center - What men value versus what women value in the workforce
Institute for the Study of Labor (IZA) - Gender-Job Satisfaction Differences across Europe: An Indicator for Labor Market Modernization
Bank of Tokyo - Factor Decomposition of the Gender.Job Satisfaction Paradox: Evidence from Japan
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis - Debate about what percentage of wage disparity is due to sexual discrimination
Centenary.edu - Gender paradox in work satisfaction apparent in the Protestant Clergy
Washington Post - White House's use of data on the gender wage gap

(thanks maddox)

Title	Aside from it being morally wrong, there’s no logical reason to be against recognizing the pay gap between genders
Author	No_Design_465
Upvotes	0
Comments	170
Date	April 10, 2026 4:22 PM UTC (3 months ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1shrcs4/aside_from_it_being_morally_wrong_theres_no/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/aside-from-it-being-morally-wrong-theres-no.1577611 https://theredarchive.com/post/1577611

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