What a fucking joke. | PurplePillDebate

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This is literally a case of the pot calling the kettle black. You have clearly done just enough surface research to tell you that your opinion is right and that’s clearly all the research you intend on doing.

It has been historically proven consistently over the last few hundred years that most inventions were created by women and either stolen by men or by their husbands. Men literally created nothing besides weapons. Women created writing and they created art. Something the hunters would have no use for but the people at home trading would.This had been proven because much of the art in writing in cave paintings is done with much more diminutive size hands, along with the sculptures and the myths and legends being much more female centered. The first god was a woman. This all tells us that females created our original society while the men little more than hitting animals over the heads with Sharp rocks. There was a definite cultural shift at a certain point where up until then humans had been a matriarchy. But it’s believed that the men with their higher levels of testosterone and tendency towards violence became jealous and decided to overthrow them and slaughter them. That is where we see women suddenly being taken during war and raped and gods of magic becoming predominantly female and evil because magic was seen as a female power.

But by all means if you want to remain un educated and retarded feel free, it is a free country.

Edit: The reason for this jealous shift is one that would be better to be explain with emotions. While they were building their society the men and women really had no concept of gender power or even the idea of a town or kingdom. They simply would’ve just been trying to survive and provide for them selves to the best of their abilities. So you have your women who are staying at home with their families building houses, sewing, trading doing all these things in town all the men run off into the woods for days and weeks at a time and go hunting. In these men’s heads and I think a lot of our heads they would say that they’re free and they’re doing whatever they want to do without any repercussions or having to answer to anyone. But then they come home to their families where their wives have traded for all these great things, she’s made a beautiful home and has this huge family and quite honestly it’s kind of wealthy. I think a lot of women would be happy for their spouses knowing that your family can be provided for without worry but many men (and it still rings true to this day) would be emasculated and pissed off. So the men got jealous of what the women had because the women were actually putting in real effort and instead of working for themselves they stole it from us. Not much has really changed.

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Um yes he should because there’s still a child with needs.

All men should see this, and all men should understand that women believe that if a young man in his teens is raped by an adult female with mental health problems, he should be forced to pay child support into his late 30's.

Nevermind cases where where the female rapes a young male, which is extremely common, despite the reality that a woman can abort a child that a man does want to raise and be present for, the man has no ability to reject ownership of the child due to current child support laws which give women all of the rights.

It almost seems like you're on my side in arguing against women having abortion rights, but I'm actually pro-choice. You're the one that actually seems to want to see women lose their abortion rights which is blowing my mind right now.

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The point is that when people argue biology, they ignore the timed when biology can be unfair to others. You cannot simultaneously support the law when it benefits you (right to choose i.e. abortion or to make someone else a parent) then argue against nature (rape, killing, fighting for resources) when it's inconvenient.

If you're going to be fair on principle, you cannot make exceptions or else you're arguing for privilege.

Examples:

public nudity is a crime. Men claim they should be able to wear shorts that allow their balls to hang free for their health because it's biology.

Someone with IBS cannot control their gas or diarrhea. They feel they have the right to shit whenever and wherever they need to. Public decency be damned.

A woman says she has the right to defend herself by carrying a gun at all times. She admits to having a mental health problem. The lack of licencing for firearms mean any crazy person can have a deadly weapon in reach. Even if it's biology to want to defend herself, the law or lack thereof is a problem.

These are just some (silly) examples. But if we took biology as an argument, we'd be excusing people who didn't shower in weeks, assaulted others or committed infanticide. Biology is a terrible argument. Women don't always have good intentions just because they're women and forcing someone into parenthood against their will is not morally justifiable at all.

[–]ivy176Blue Pill Woman 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]Sid_Insidious 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

The damage due to rape and the damage due to a false allegations are two entirely different things. One does not justify, nor negate the other. Both the rapist and the false accuser are criminals, and the notion that "one is much worse than the other" does not excuse the one deemed a "lesser of evils". If women could lose their career, their family and everything they've ever worked for at the single word of a man, then false accusations would be handled properly and swiftly.

Women sneer and grin knowing they can "just say he raped me".

Your tongues are heavily weapnonized, but don't be surprised when those who you turn these weapons on distrust you or fear you. The #metoo backlash is a real thing. Google it.

Of course, women cry foul here again. It's always a win-win situation with women, where they're the only winner.

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In the wild a bigger stronger male could also come up to a couple having sex and take the guy and kill him or rape him too, or take his woman. Lots of things happen in the wild, doesn’t make them COMPULSORY, like pregnancy. If the cells meet, pregnancy is happening whether you want it or not, as by chemical reaction. Sex is a choice, a behavior, not a chemical reaction or series of reactions. One can die with never having had it and be healthy. Rape is also a choice, and an evil one. So evil in fact, the men who turn to it as a security blanket for excuses are also evil because clearly they like thinking about it. Normal people do not like constantly bring up rape, but you males seem to relish it. I’m blocking you now you gross incel, you’ve polluted enough of my time with your rape talk. Come up with real arguments, not rubbing your dick to rape fantasies.

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Men do have reproductive rights vasectomies are legal.

LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

That's what you're coming up with? Damn, you've really got nothing huh.

A man who's had a vasectomy can still be forced to pay for a child he didn't consent to. Yeah lol fuck off

Men just don’t have as many options as women because well we do most of the baby making.

So fucking what? Men pay most of the taxes, does that mean we should then be entitled to most of the services? Because if so a whole lot of women are in for a very unpleasant life change.

Like we could get over this if you could cut the bullshit and just admit men are being denied their rights. Men are being denied inequality to women and you just do not care because it benefits you and you don't want to give up your privilege. At least then we'd both be being honest.

[–]YveisGrey2 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

A reproductive right is the right to control your part in reproduction. Just like I can’t make a man get a vasectomy a man cannot make me get an abortion. But your rights end where another’s begin. So once your sperm is in a woman’s body your rights to it are gone. Her body her choice. And your right to your money ends where your child’s needs begin as well. Your child needs financial support therefore you can be made to pay up. Nobody feels bad for dead beat fathers except for dead beat fathers. Actually I know the men arguing here don’t have kids, men with kids never actually make these arguments because most of them aren’t psychopaths who lack natural human affection for their own kids. If anything men with kids fight to have more time with their kids and usually pay more than child support payments to support them.

Men are not being denied any rights because no one has the right to paper abortion. Men and women can and have been sued for child support by custodial parents. The outcome is not evidence of unfairness in the law, y’all love to argue that when y’all are the beneficiaries.

And lastly taxes don’t work like that. The rich pay the most taxes but the poor use most of them. The point of taxes is to distribute wealth, for social services like defense, roads, public schools, retirement funds, health care etc..

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[–]YveisGrey1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

So what? If that were the case the individuals who put in more would get more which could very well be more men then women but obviously not all men contribute more and not all women contribute less it really and truly depends on one’s income. Being a man wouldn’t be the determining factor in that scenario. Also it’s stupid anyways because that’s just not how taxes work.

And how is it “besides the point” that men cannot have abortions?? Lol that is the whole point you can’t complain about not having a right that is impossible. That’s like a blind person complaining they don’t have the “right to drive” it’s not that they don’t have the right it’s that they cannot drive because they cannot see. They can’t perform the action we are not about to make it illegal to drive because some people can’t drive. The idea that we should make abortion illegal because men can’t get them is equally as nonsensical. Hmm maybe we can make breastfeeding illegal while were at it 😂

A man doesn’t get pregnant so he can’t have an abortion to frame that as women having some “special right” is false this isn’t a matter of allowing women do something and prohibiting men from doing the same this is a matter of allowing women to do something that is simply impossible for a man to do.

[–]softhandsam1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]YveisGrey1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You're saying you can have abortions because it's a biological reality that men can't.

Yes and no. I am not arguing that abortion is right because women can get them and not men. I am arguing that presuming abortion is morally acceptable the fact that men cannot get them has nothing to do with the laws and everything do with biology. So yes women can have abortions, men cannot that doesn’t mean abortions are wrong (or right) it’s just stating what is and isn’t possible.

Not all men are stronger than all women anyways so why would the law single out men in such a case? Idk even know what you are trying to say here. It’s not generally okay for anyone to enact violence against anyone else (except in cases of self defense). So what does men being stronger matter?

You are confusing what is possible with what is permissible. Just because it’s possible to do something doesn’t mean society has to allow it, at the same time society cannot permit the impossible because it’s impossible. Society permits abortion, but it is not possible for men to have abortions therefore men do not have abortions. Society also permits vasectomies but it is not possible for women to have vasectomies therefore women do not have vasectomies. Idk what is so difficult about this that you are not understanding.

[–]softhandsam1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You are confusing what is possible with what is permissible. Just because it’s possible to do something doesn’t mean society has to allow it,

That is my stance on abortion

at the same time society cannot permit the impossible because it’s impossible.

They also shouldn't put into law that some people can use their biology to negatively effect others.

This is the problem with abortion.

Society permits abortion,

Yes but SHOULD it is the question. The question is SHOULD the government say "here's a biological difference, we should make a law so that this biological difference can be used to the genders advantage"

Since women can use abortion to cause harm to men, it should not be permitted. The same way that men are biologically stronger, but shouldn't be allowed to use that strength is agreed on, similarly women should not be able to use abortion without both peoples permission because then it becomes an ability to inflict your will on the other sex.

it is not possible for men to have abortions therefore men do not have abortions.

You COULD have paper abortions though, the law is supposed to make things as fair as possible.

For example if a third gender appeared and could mind control others, should that be legal?

Society also permits vasectomies but it is not possible for women to have vasectomies therefore women do not have vasectomies.

That's not the same because the comparable procedure does exist for women. The proper analogy would be for vasectomy to exist and be legal but the opposite, having your tubes tied being illegal. It wouldn't make any logical sense to do that would it?

Idk what is so difficult about this that you are not understanding.

Because you're playing both sides of the fences. Either it should be legal and for equality men get a comparable right (paper abortion) or it should be illegal because it gives one sex control of another.

None of this "it should be legal, but men can't do that exact thing so we shouldn't even try to give them something comparable"

Not all men are stronger than all women anyways so why would the law single out men in such a case?

Not all women can become pregnant so why should abortion be legal?

Idk even know what you are trying to say here. It’s not generally okay for anyone to enact violence against anyone else (except in cases of self defense).

Why is violence any worse or better than emotional harm that comes with having your child aborted?

So what does men being stronger matter?

We have established that women are unique because of their ability to be pregnant.

In turn men are unique in that 99.99% of the time they are stronger.

Yet only one gender difference is being made into a legal advantage.

If you think males advantage should be illegal because it would cause harm, then the same should be said of women's right?

There's measurable harm to men that have their children aborted with no choice in the matter, they feel intense pain.

But that's okay because it's not a bruise that will heal, just something that will haunt them forever.

Another convenient case where the harm caused by women is purposed to be less harmful than the harm caused by men because the harm men cause is more visible.

And stop saying it's impossible for men to have abortions when you know damn well there's a way to make it somewhat even.

[–]YveisGrey1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

That is my stance on abortion

Now you’re against abortion? I thought this was an argument for paper abortions?

They also shouldn't put into law that some people can use their biology to negatively effect others.

If you are negatively affected by what someone does to their own body that’s your problem. Abortion is a essentially a contraceptive option for women. Just like women can take BC pills to avoid getting pregnant and giving birth they can get an abortion to avoid remaining pregnant and giving birth.

Yes but SHOULD it is the question. The question is SHOULD the government say "here's a biological difference, we should make a law so that this biological difference can be used to the genders advantage"

Um abortion isn’t legal to give women an advantage. Abortion is legal because in the 70s the supreme court ruled that because fetuses are not classified as persons with equal protection under the law pregnant women can do what they want with their bodies. It’s just like if a woman wants to she can get a boob job, or a nose job, or a tattoo its her body so it’s her decision.

And men have an advantage in most popular sports they usually play at the highest leagues and earn the most from playing does that mean the law needs to ban popular sports you know because men tend to to excel at them over women?

Since women can use abortion to cause harm to men, it should not be permitted. The same way that men are biologically stronger, but shouldn't be allowed to use that strength is agreed on, similarly women should not be able to use abortion without both peoples permission because then it becomes an ability to inflict your will on the other sex.

Who cares? Bottom line it’s her body. A man could be upset with his gf for getting a boob job too that doesn’t mean it should be illegal to get a boob job. It’s her body. She can do what she wants. A man cannot force a woman to risk pregnancy and child birth for his sake? Lol wtf. What if she dies in labor? What if she gets injured from labor? What if pregnancy causes high blood pressure, or diabetes or other ailments?? It’s her body, her health is at stake so it’s her decision, period.

And I have already shown men do have certain advantages in society based on their physical strength alone.

You COULD have paper abortions though, the law is supposed to make things as fair as possible.

But paper abortions are not abortions. You are simply making a false comparison. The law does not have to make anything fair they are to make things just. The law is not currently unjust because both men and women can be sued for child support, both can legally be held accountable to support their children. The law doesn’t allow anyone to have a paper abortions and they do not have to. In fact that would be unjust because then tax payers would be burdened with supporting other people’s kids even more so than they are now.

For example if a third gender appeared and could mind control others, should that be legal?

Um no. Just because something is possible does not mean it should be permissible. Are you arguing that abortion itself is wrong like mind control? Because that’s the only way this analogy even makes sense.

That's not the same because the comparable procedure does exist for women. The proper analogy would be for vasectomy to exist and be legal but the opposite, having your tubes tied being illegal. It wouldn't make any logical sense to do that would it?

Who cares? The law doesn’t allow it because a comparable procedure exists for women. The law permits the sale of BC pills which currently only exist for women. The fact that male BC pills are not on the market doesn’t mean the female ones should be taken off the market. And there is no equivalent or “opposite abortion” for men, men don’t get pregnant so they can’t stop a pregnancy. Your whole position makes no sense. The law is concerned with whether something is right or wrong period not who can and can’t do it.

Because you're playing both sides of the fences. Either it should be legal and for equality men get a comparable right (paper abortion) or it should be illegal because it gives one sex control of another.

No I am not you want men to have “extra rights” and to be able to dump their kids on the tax payers. it’s a no.

Not all women can become pregnant so why should abortion be legal?

Dude I am not the one arguing that something should be legal only if every single person can do it. LOL that’s YOUR bizarre position.

Why is violence any worse or better than emotional harm that comes with having your child aborted?

Because you shouldn’t force someone to take a physical health risk for your emotional well being.

If you think males advantage should be illegal because it would cause harm, then the same should be said of women's right?

No violence is direct harm that no one is allowed to inflict male or female. Abortion is a health decision. It’s a decision a woman makes that impacts her physical health.

There's measurable harm to men that have their children aborted with no choice in the matter, they feel intense pain.

Welp those men should choose to be with pro life women only then. Lol wtf.

Another convenient case where the harm caused by women is purposed to be less harmful than the harm caused by men because the harm men cause is more visible.

The potential harm caused by going through a pregnancy is far greater than any emotional harm a man would experience in this case.

And stop saying it's impossible for men to have abortions when you know damn well there's a way to make it somewhat even.

There isn’t there is no just way for a man to prevent the birth of a child after conception.

[–]Fitncurly1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]lucky_beast1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Men do take most of the tax money actually

lol no, they just pay them

—most of it goes to the military industrial complex, corporations, and the prison industrial complex, all majority male.

I will never argue in favor of the military or prisons so you've got me there. However, the amount of money spent on those still is spent on women, and they are also smaller than the amount of money that is spent on social services which overwhelmingly is spent on women.

So that's another swing and a miss

since we’re more than half of all college graduates and at least half of the work force.

Women are half the workforce, yet again pay less then half of the taxes while consuming more than half the services. So in your brain that means they should be getting even more while contributing even less? Damn, yeah more than half of college grads but you've got less than half the brains huh.

[–]Fitncurly1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

How the fuck is money spent on the military and prisons and weapons spent on women?! Come on, I know your dry lonely dick really hates women for rejecting it but that’s such a retarded leap 🙄. Social services support the mothers’ capacity to raise the children which are the future citizenry—the inventors, politicians, doctors, teachers, and taxpayers—it’s in society’s best interest to invest in the children or else it’ll crumble. The men are too busy trying to dodge child support after fucking and running after all, so mom needs help raising up the future nation since dad wants to be a dumb dick. Women get paid less since women HAVE to choose work that offers the balance (ie. less paid work time so she can be home sometimes) to raise those kids the men leave for dead. Once again, society has figured this all out after seeing men act like selfish assholes and leave their kids to the streets—people who are caregivers for children earn child tax credit. This is how I know you’re a fucking kid yourself—you don’t know shit about taxes. ANY gender parent can get that tax credit if they have custody, but men don’t want to actually take care of their kids so they don’t file for custody and don’t get the money 🤷🏻‍♀️. Oh well, fuck them (or rather nah). This is my last response now that I realize you’re a loser incel misogynist AND a minor or basement-dweller who doesn’t even live a real life on their own yet. I don’t waste my time with such folks, so ::blocked::

[–]lucky_beast1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Do you think there are no women in prison or the military? Or who work in prisons or on military bases? Or are the families of people who do? lmaoooo you are really desperate.

Social services support the mothers’ capacity to raise the children which are the future citizenry—the inventors, politicians, doctors, teachers, and taxpayers—it’s in society’s best interest to invest in the children or else it’ll crumble.

Your argument is that women deserve credit for pumping out the men who do the actual work that makes society function. This is a serious reddit moment.

Women get paid less since women HAVE to choose work that offers the balance

Women get paid the same. Women make less because they're less productive, work less, and choose easier work.

This is how I know you’re a fucking kid yourself—you don’t know shit about taxes. ANY gender parent can get that tax credit if they have custody, but men don’t want to actually take care of their kids so they don’t file for custody and don’t get the money 🤷🏻‍♀️.

The absolute irony of this comment. What a fucking retard. Men contribute more in tax revenue than men do. Women don't even contribute as much as they consume in taxes. It's got nothing to do with one tax credit over custody.

::blocked::

lmao glad you realized you got spanked so you ran away like a little pissbaby. What a strong independent woman lol

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It’s so cute when morally bankrupt ....

Did i encourage rape ? No. Why? Because it hurt ppl! Would i like to be hurt? No. The morale here comes from me being sensitive. So i dont say morale is not needed, i state that it is not objective. Imagine if you were totaly insensitive to pain. You would not understand, if not taught, why you should not hurt ppl because umyou cant feel pain. That is like asking a borned blind ppl to imagine the light of the sun. I dont hide behind other ppl. I just cite different author you can read to have a better understanding of the origine of morale. Not the justification or value of morale

btw, it’s morals you’re looking for, morale is more like a feeling

English is not my first language

because they are ALWAYS hiding some depraved shit about themselves

Mmh maybe....yeah i understand the level of projection is quit high. I dont blame you though.

Normal people who don’t love the idea of raping women don’t need to mention Neitzche or backpeddle with their “b..b..but there’s no objective morale” 🥴.

1)Don't talk about normal because normal is according to the majority. 2)I never promoted nor accepted rape as good. 3) Explaining is not accepting. Murder is not objectivly bad or good. Do i promot it? Of course not for the same reasons.

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That’s a moot point. A women can have a baby despite the father not wanting the woman to have it.

Why should the man have to pay for it if he felt that he wasn’t willing to have a child?

A mother can abort a child, despite the father wanting his baby to be born.

Women can kill his unborn child without his consent. What recourse should there be for the man?

If the woman can kill a baby without the man’s consent, or have a baby without a man’s consent... It was her choice. She pays for her choice. Not him. That’s because it wasn’t his choice.

This is logical reasoning. Pure unadulterated egalitarianism at it’s finest. However, women are against this idea because they don’t want to live with the consequences of their actions. They just want men to.

Freedom isn’t free. Your “freedom of choice” should have a cost.

If there was no such thing as abortion, I would agree with you 100%. However, now women have the freedom to have the final say irregardless of men.

[–]YveisGrey 5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago* (21 children) | Copy Link

So? That is due to the very nature of pregnancy. A man cannot make a woman get an abortion or not get an abortion. Having a baby requires her body to go through a lot, it requires her to risk her health. Abortion is also a risk and effects her body and health. So how can a man reasonably have a say in this matter? A man can and should control his own body when he is able instead of relying on a woman to choose for him after the fact.

A man has to pay because one, he is the father and two, the child in question has rights. An unborn child currently has no rights and is not considered a person under the law( well up until a certain point in the pregnancy at which point a woman cannot electively abort the child legally) a born child is. Once a child is born no one can abort them. Abortion stops an unborn child from ever being born so there is never a born child with needs or rights, but not paying child support does nothing in that regard. The child could still be born the child would still need financial support so yes the state employs the parents to take the responsibility.

The man in question doesn’t pay for her choice but for his own choice he is the father because he had sex with the woman which was his choice (assuming no one was raped). Women give birth everyday to children whom you are not the father of so while birth may be necessary to make a man a father it is not sufficient. He also has part in the matter, and it is for his part that he is being held responsible.

Your reasoning is actually not logical at all and it certainly is not justified! Ironically your position allows men not to live with the consequences of their actions while forcing women to bear the sole responsibility of sex. Having an abortion is a choice yes but it is also a consequence because if a pregnant woman doesn’t have one she most likely will have a baby. So when a woman chooses an abortion she absolves herself AND the man from any responsibility to the child but it’s not accurate to frame that as her having “no consequences” for her decision to have sex, she had to have surgery or take some drug that has pretty nasty side effects, and pay for it.

The only argument you are making here is a pro life one (abortion kills babies). But whether abortion is legal or not is of no matter to the issue if child support, which may I remind you both parents can be held accountable for by law.

[–]DeuxPistoletsNo Pill 39M 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago* (20 children) | Copy Link

So? That is due to the very nature of pregnancy. A man cannot make a woman get an abortion no not get an abortion.

That’s ridiculous. The true nature of pregnancy doesn’t involve abortion clinics.

Having a baby requires her body to go through a lot, it requires her to risk her health. Abortion is also a risk and effects her body and health. So how can a man reasonably have a say in this matter.

I’m not anti-abortion. Let’s get that clear. However, your right to choose should come with your need to accept personal responsibility for your decision.

A man can and should control his own body when he is able instead of relying on a woman to choose for him after the fact.

Yes, you both have that control during * intercourse. However, he doesn’t have that control when you decide to get an abortion. A women shouldn’t choose for him! That’s why women should be held accountable for *their decisions, and not men.

A man has to pay because one he is the father and two the child in question has rights. An unborn child currently has no rights and is not considered a person under the (well up until a certain point in the pregnancy at which point a woman cannot electively abort the child legally) a born child is. Once a child is born no one can abort them. Abortion stops an unborn child from ever being born so their is never a born child with needs or rights, but not paying child support does nothing in that regard. The child could still be born the child would still need financial support so yes the state employs the parents to take the responsibility.

This misses the point... He is paying for her FINAL decision.

Your reasoning is actually not logical at all and it certainly is not justified! Ironically your position allows men not to live with the consequences of their actions while forcing women to bear the sole responsibility of sex.

No. If abortion involved BOTH male and female consent, or if abortion was ILLEGAL... I would say that men and women would have to be held accountable and take responsibility for the child. Women should only be held accountable when THEY HAVE THE FINAL SAY.

Having an abortion is a choice yes but it is also a consequence because if a pregnant woman doesn’t have one she most likely will have a baby. So when a woman chooses an abortion she absolves herself AND the man from any responsibility to the child but it’s not accurate to frame that as her having “no consequences” for her decision to have sex, she had to have surgery or take some drug that has pretty nasty side effects, and pay for it.

What? Please rephrase.

The only argument you are making here is a pro life one (abortion kills babies). But whether abortion is legal or not is of no matter to the issue if child support, which may I remind you both parents can be held accountable for by law.

I’m not pro-life!

[–]YveisGrey 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

That’s ridiculous. The true nature of pregnancy doesn’t involve abortion clinics.

True but I’m not arguing that something is good because it is natural I’m are arguing what is possible. It is possible for a woman to have an abortion it is not possible for a man to have an abortion. So your position that abortion laws are unfair to men is like me arguing that vasectomy laws are unfair to women. Women cannot get vasectomies because they don’t have male reproductive organs so the fact that the law can only allow men to have vasectomies and not women is not unfair at all, it’s just the nature of things. Basically you need to consider abortion as a contraceptive option available to women, it has nothing to do with men and it has nothing to do with how we treat children who are born.

However, your right to choose should come with your need to accept personal responsibility for your decision.

Women are responsible for their decision to have a baby especially in the case in question in which she sues a man for child support. A woman can only do this if she has custody, if she has custody she is being responsible for the child so who is trying to evade responsibility here? Only the man.

This misses the point... He is paying for her FINAL decision.

No he actually isn’t. Women make that final decision all the time without you being a father. He is a father because of his choices. This is like you lending someone money that was lent to you. You don’t become absolved of your debt just because you gave that money to someone else and they spent it all. Sure they had the final say but you gave them the money, money you didn’t really have and that you knew you didn’t have that’s your own fault, and you will still be indebted.

What? Please rephrase.

I was saying if a woman has sex and she gets pregnant there will be some consequence abortion or live birth (assuming no miscarriage). If a man has sex and woman gets pregnant theres no real consequence for him unless she gives birth. It’s pretty much “unfair” that women go through pregnancy and men don’t but nothing we can do about that.

[–]hallucinatronic 6 years ago* [recovered] (17 children) | Copy Link

[–]YveisGrey 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]hallucinatronic2 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

It is not possible for a woman to rape and man and get him pregnant so that he needs and abortion or has to give birth.

Men get raped by women all the time. What you're saying is a woman can rape a man get pregnant and force that man to pay child support.

Life ain’t fair. Get over it.

You don't seem to understand that you're making an anti-woman argument and suggesting that they shouldn't be allowed to get abortions.

again good look proving that case in court.

How are you complaining about rape not being prosecuted, then turning around and saying it's a good thing they're not prosecuted because they're hard to prove?

If a woman is particularly promiscuous and has unprotected sex with multiple partners within the span of a week and unfortunately gets raped, should she be able to claim any man's sperm that matches the DNA raped her and thrown in jail, or should the police close the case upon discovering multiple sources of male DNA?

[–]YveisGrey1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Men get raped by women all the time. What you're saying is a woman can rape a man get pregnant and force that man to pay child support.

Um okay but can he get pregnant from rape? No. Being raped and getting pregnant is way worse than being made to pay child support. Pregnancy is physical. That’s like saying stealing someone’s wallet that they left behind is worse than beating them up. Physical assault is almost always considered worse than theft. And women rape men all the time?? Lol actually pretty sure men rape other men more than women do. And that doesn’t even begin to compare to the rate at which men rape women. Try again

You don't seem to understand that you're making an anti-woman argument and suggesting that they shouldn't be allowed to get abortions.

No I’m not. All I have argued is that abortion being legal does not in any way merit “paper abortions” for men (or women for that matter). I agree with the law as it stands parents male or female should be able to be legally responsible to pay child support to the custodial parent.

How are you complaining about rape not being prosecuted, then turning around and saying it's a good thing they're not prosecuted because they're hard to prove?

I’m being realistic it’s hard to prove in court with the presumption of innocence. So good luck. And yes the fact that courts barely care about rape at all but you think these cases will be taken seriously is laughable.

If a woman is particularly promiscuous and has unprotected sex with multiple partners within the span of a week and unfortunately gets raped, should she be able to claim any man's sperm that matches the DNA raped her and thrown in jail, or should the police close the case upon discovering multiple sources of male DNA?

Um what? This hypothetical has nothing to with anything. Next.

[–]hallucinatronic2 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Try again

Sure, why not. Women rape young boys and teenagers possibly more than adult men rape adult women, we just never hear about it because it's hardly taken seriously. Women have female privilege and are often given the privilege of the doubt when they do bad things like molest kids. I know this first hand from participating in a support group for men who are survivors that adult women never cared that other women were raping boys as much as feminists like to pretend it's only men that don't care.

No I’m not. All I have argued is that abortion being legal does not in any way merit “paper abortions”

You're not making an argument, you just keep repeating that a man should have no rights and that they should simply wear condoms, which doesn't address the reality that young males are raped every day by adult women and the same happens to adult men the moment they are vulnerable to women.

You keep calling abortion a contraceptive measure when the "cept" in contraception already explains to you that it's about stopping pregnancy. Abortion is about aborting something already in progress, which is a pregnancy. And in exactly the same way a woman can choose to terminate the pregnancy of a child that is hers and the father's the father should be able to choose that he no longer wants that child.

Child support is artificial, and while you think you're arguing that only women should have rights, you're making a great argument for women not having those rights to begin with.

[–]YveisGrey1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Sure, why not. Women rape young boys and teenagers possibly more than adult men rape adult women, we just never hear about it because it's hardly taken seriously. Women have female privilege and are often given the privilege of the doubt when they do bad things like molest kids. I know this first hand from participating in a support group for men who are survivors that adult women never cared that other women were raping boys as much as feminists like to pretend it's only men that don't care.

If you are going to sit here and straight up LIE I am not continuing this conversation. You are straight lying as there is no evidence for this ludicrous claim you have made. Also in the exact same vein many rapes against women go unrecorded and unpunished. Also men don’t care about women raping boys so don’t blame feminists. Lastly grown men rape boys more than women do, look what happened with the male dominated Catholic Church a 100% male run institution raping boys and covering it up for decades if not centuries. But you want to complain about feminist? Gtfoh! I swear you men get delusional once you start losing an argument. Face the music men y’all are the main perpetrators of rape.

You're not making an argument, you just keep repeating that a man should have no rights and that they should simply wear condoms, which doesn't address the reality that young males are raped every day by adult women and the same happens to adult men the moment they are vulnerable to women.

Yes I am you just lack comprehension skills. The grounds for abortion do not apply to child support at all. Abortion functions as a contraceptive option it prevents live birth, child support is for living children after birth. Not the same thing at all. And so what? Women are raped as well, and rape is already a crime it has nothing to do with this discussion.

You keep calling abortion a contraceptive measure when the "cept" in contraception already explains to you that it's about stopping pregnancy. Abortion is about aborting something already in progress, which is a pregnancy. And in exactly the same way a woman can choose to terminate the pregnancy of a child that is hers and the father's the father should be able to choose that he no longer wants that child.

The father can decide he doesn’t want the child but that does nothing to stop the child being born. That’s the difference. Abortion prevents live birth. It’s the true “birth control”. (Though even birth control pills and the morning after pill can intercept and pregnancy by making the uterus an inhospitable environment for a the embryo to implant-I digress). Point is abortion stops babies being born, no baby, no dependent, no one for either parent to be held accountable for. “Paper abortion” only stops babies who are born, from receiving financial support. Not the same thing at all.

Child support is artificial, and while you think you're arguing that only women should have rights, you're making a great argument for women not having those rights to begin with.

What does that mean? All laws can be considered “artificial”. Jailing murderers is “artificial”. That’s neither here nor there the social consensus is that parents should provide for their dependent kids if they are able to. If they refuse they can be made to under the law. No one cares if they wanted them or not. The one’s arguing no to support their own kids just sounds like sociopaths.

[–]usa_foot_print1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]YveisGrey1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

That wouldn’t happen if she was actually convicted and imprisoned for the crime. And if she is a rapist she would also lose custody because she has committed a felony in which case she can’t sue for child support (only custodial parents can sue for child support). So short answer no.

But is that grounds for totally absolving the father of his duties as a parent? No. The only recourse the father could have is give the child for adoption but because he is the natural parent and the child has been born the child would automatically be in his custody (assuming the mom is convicted and has lost custody). So he would be responsible for the child until that child could be placed in an adoption and all his parental rights and duties transferred. This is what happens to women who are raped btw. They can’t abort babies after they are born. And if the father is known but not convicted of the rape he can sue for visitation and she can be forced to share custody, she also can’t give the child for adoption without his consent. Women are actually much more vulnerable when it comes to this issue but that doesn’t stop grown men from acting like perpetual victims. As if rape is a real threat to them.

[–]usa_foot_print2 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]YveisGrey1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

No. Being found not guilty is not the same as being innocent. It just means there is not enough evidence to convict. And that is the price we pay for having a system which presumes innocence and grants a fair trial. So just because a woman is found not guilty doesn’t mean she is innocent same with a man but we cannot take that matter in our hands. A person found not guilty is not charged with a crime so they would have the same rights as someone who was never tried or accused in the first place.

Yes you can depending on the crime. Courts can absolutely terminate custody on the grounds of felony and often do.

Yep life is hard. Women get raped everyday. Women get raped and kidnapped and give birth to babies with no medical assistance, these women do not have any right to abort the baby after the fact and most of them keep the baby and raise them because they realize the baby is not at fault at all. If a woman raped you and you had a kid so what about that child? It’s not the kids fault your were raped why would that justify you not helping the innocent child if you could? If anything you should be doing everything in your power to fight for custody so they aren’t raised by a rapist, you should be concerned about their well being not complaining about child support. You think your position comes from a place of righteousness and compassion for others but it’s doesn’t if it did paying child support wouldn’t be your main concern it would be the poor child caught in the middle.

[–]usa_foot_print1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Yep life is hard. Women get raped everyday. Women get raped and kidnapped and give birth to babies with no medical assistance, these women do not have any right to abort the baby after the fact and most of them keep the baby and raise them because they realize the baby is not at fault at all. If a woman raped you and you had a kid so what about that child? It’s not the kids fault your were raped why would that justify you not helping the innocent child if you could? If anything you should be doing everything in your power to fight for custody so they aren’t raised by a rapist, you should be concerned about their well being not complaining about child support. You think your position comes from a place of righteousness and compassion for others but it’s doesn’t if it did paying child support wouldn’t be your main concern it would be the poor child caught in the middle.

Alright, I'll quote you next time someone wants an abortion.

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So? That is because the government does not recognize fetuses as children at all. Unborn fetuses are not persons under the law, they have no legal rights. If you think they are you are just making a pro life argument not a “paper abortion” argument. The only way to justify “paper abortion” on the same grounds as actual abortion would be to claim that children who are born are not persons and have no rights to support from their parents. Not only would this never fly but it would actually absolve the mother as well (just like abortion absolves the father from being responsible).

It would absolve all parents everywhere actually from having to take care of their kids. Now child abuse in the form of neglect and endangerment would be legally justified. The whole thing just makes no sense.

As for safe haven laws the child is dropped off anonymously that means anyone can drop of the child not just the birth mother. I could find a baby off the side of the road and take them to a safe haven no questions asked. A man could do the same thing, many times no one even sees who dropped the baby off because the baby is placed in a box and an alarm goes off after a few minutes so they can be picked up by officials.

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I agree men want consistency, and my arguement is you lost that when you had sex. You agree having sex poses a risk of pregnancy. Yet you still had sex. You signed a contract when you had sex that there is a chance she can get pregnant and I as the future father am responsible.That is the purpose of sex, to procreate.

If you don't want a child, you do the best proven way, to abstain from having sex. Your risk then will be 0. You want to have sex but for fun and without the risk? You can't. There is always an risk, it never leaves and you need to accept that. There are ways for both and female to lower the risk close to 0 however it never disappears. So you sign that contract knowing this. The moment a baby is born, both father and mother are on the hook.

We created ways to enjoy casual sex by lowering the risk. Some are exclusive to one of the genders. One of the ways available for men is condoms, a couple more ways for men and only men is pull out method and vasectomies. Abortions are available for only women, just like birthcontrol and female condoms.

To hold abortions against women is a sneaky tactic for men to avoid responsibility. Its a tool like everything I said above, yet gets the most heat since its the last line of defensive before a man has to accept that the risk of sex prevailed against his favor. To add, he has no say in that tool cause biology has it that the women gets to decide at that moment.

[–]softhandsam1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Its a tool like everything I said above,

I've already pointed out the difference, either address the difference and explain why you don't think it matters or stop comparing them.

gets the most heat since its the last line of defensive before a man has to accept that the risk of sex prevailed against his favor.

Why are only men on the hook for the baby and not women?

That's not consistent.

To add, he has no say in that tool cause biology has it that the women gets to decide at that moment.

No, abortions aren't biological, they are medical procedures. You're biology only allows you to undergo the procedure, but that doesn't mean biology decided, because abortions are not a biological function.

Abortions are available for only women, just like birthcontrol and female condoms.

Stop. They aren't the same. Contraceptives keep pregnancy from occurring. Abortion st0ps an already occurred pregnancy. They are not equivalent.

You're not responding to my points.

Why is it you think forcing an abortion is worse than forcing a man to slave for 18 years to pay for the child YOU wanted.

Both are forcing something on the body of the other party yes or no?

Please actually respond to the points being made.

Why should abortion exist if it just exists so solely women can shirk their responsibility for babies from sex.

What you're suggesting is only men should abstain from sex. That men need to be celibate.

Then you blame biology for this, except abortions aren't biology. So what are you talking about?

[–]HotDamImHere1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You're not quite understanding my point. They are tools. Just because you can name differences in them, doesn't mean they don't complete the same objective. An hammer is vastly different from a nail gun. But both can nail wood together. The biology part is the tools used available to them is based off biology. Men can't get abortions because they don't have uteruses and can't get pregnant. Its exclusive to women because biology.

You saying child support is unethical and forcing men to pay child support is bad especially if a man didn't want a child. Okay lets dig deeper in this. Why did that man have sex? We all know sex is for procreating. Human use sex to have babies. Thats biology. We just like causal sex without the risk. So we created ways to have it by lowering the risk. Condoms, pulling out, vasectomies etc etc was created so we can enjoy sex without much risk. But the risk is always there, it never went away. When You have sex with a woman, you essentially agreeing that there is a possibility you can father a child.

Its your job to carry your best interest first. If you don't want a baby, then don't have sex or roll the dice and utilize male protective measures. If your DNA produces a baby, you are equally responsible for that child. You signed that contract knowing this the moment you decided to have sex with that women. You cannot utilize her options against her, because not only you have had your own, its her body.

Do i agree with the calulations of how child cupport income is determined? Hell no, thats a debate on its on. But child support is needed. She did not make that baby on her own, so what if abortion was available, you as a male had condoms, vasectomies, pulling out, and others before even got to that point. Even if you utilized all of them, you know having sex can create life, you know what risk youre taking.

As for how you feel how females are using it, thats subjective. Thats like a women getting mad at a man for getting a vasectomy so he can fuck whatever he wants with minimal reprocussions.

[–]softhandsam1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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I explained this a million times. BECAUSE abortion is A TOOL NOT AVAILABLE FOR MEN. It was never designed, made, created for men. It was made for womens best interest. Advancement in medince and technology allowed abortions to be an option for women. Their biology allowed this to be only specific to them. Its THEIR decision to use it or not use it is solely based on them. Abortion has nothing to do with the men. Men of course benefited from its use when the women used it and it fit his best interest, but it was NEVER INTENTED FOR DIRECT MALE USE TO BEGIN WITH. It was tools made to PREVENT giving birth to a child. If you understand this concept then youll understand that regardless of what tools is available to prevent giving birth (aka condoms, or abortion), if a baby is BORN its both the male and female responsibility, REGARDLESS if she wanted it or not, regardless if the man wanted it or not. Whoever doesnt want custody or can't get custody has to pay child support. Its not gender specific, but it so happens men often do NOT want a child SO it affects them more.

"But as a man did not want a child and clearly she did so i shouldnt be financially responsible if she gives birth" is a fucking poor argument. How the fuck did she get pregnant? YOU FUCKED HER. So what she didnt get an abortion, you didnt wear a condom, you didnt pull out, you didnt do everything your nature to prevent that. You can fuck a women 100 times dying for you to get her pregnant but if you doing the BEST to prevent that, your risk is minimized. The moment she does get pregnant (not including fraud, but even so you supposed to be on your game), the last line of defense is abortion, which is not available to you and not your choice. You fucked her knowing she can get bare children because that what sex is for. You dont get to run away. Dont have sex.

My argurment is if you DID NOT WANT A CHILD YOU SHOULDNT HAVE SEX and i explained this greatly over and over again.

It is YOUR JOB to utlilize everything possible to protect YOUR BEST INTEREST. AS A MAN you have tools available to you. You hate child support? Then make sure you do your fucking best and everything in your man control to make that not happen.

[–]softhandsam1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Because it's a tool isn't a reasoning as to why using that tool is okay.

Its THEIR decision to use it or not use it is solely based on them.

Okay, but why SHOULD the tool be available to use?

Because women want bodily autonomy, correct?

Okay so why then should men not have bodily autonomy?

You're still not responding to my points.

I asked you to explain why a man forcing an abortion on a woman is worse than a woman forcing a man to be a slave for her choice.

You then went on to say abortion is a tool not made for men.

I never said abortion wasn't a tool, I never said it was made for men. I'm asking you to justify its existence. I'm asking you to justify only women having bodily autonomy.

My argurment is if you DID NOT WANT A CHILD YOU SHOULDNT HAVE SEX and i explained this greatly over and over again.

This logic applies to BOTH PARTIES. Then women argued they needed bodily autonomy, became exempt from that rule but still try to enforce it on men with zero justification.

Stop repeating yourself. That's not how debating works.

If you understand this concept

It's reductum ad absurdam. It's reducing a complex topic and reducing it to the point where the differences were ignored. Condoms and birth control prevent, abortion ends an already established process.

then youll understand that regardless of what tools is available to prevent giving birth (aka condoms, or abortion), if a baby is BORN its both the male and female responsibility, REGARDLESS if she wanted it or not, regardless if the man wanted it or not.

This is not a logical thought process, it's literally just "Women have more options"

Why is that fair?

"Doesn't matter because women have more options"

That's how you're arguing

[–]HotDamImHere1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You do have body autonomy? Why you keep saying you don't have control of your own body, you had it the whole time up to the point of conception. I LISTED THEM, Now youre butthurt that women have one after the point of conception? Wtf is going on here.

I already answered your question "forcing a man to pay childsupport is worse than abortion", you didnt do a good job reading.

Ill repeat it again, abortion is a tool to prevent the birth of that child exclusively made for women that is used or isnt. Once that baby comes out you as a man hold responsibility just like she too hold the SAME responsibility because she did NOT make that baby on her own. No one has a one up here. Child support is there to protect women and children from men like you who actually believe that ALTHOUGH they fucked up and ejaculated in a vagina regardless of all the warnings, and male protections that exist, since the guy didnt want one a child and the woman did, they as a male should be absolved of all responsibility and all of it should fall on the women because abortion exist and they decided they didn't want to get one.

Abortion and child support are independent from one another, if abortion just suddently didnt exist anymore, child support will STILL be here and youll still have to pay with NO arguement. Now it exist and you want to use it as a tactic against women to protect YOUR interest? When it was made protect HER interest.

You didnt want a child because it will financially screw you, the child will also financially screw the woman too. Child support is your porportion to pay, the governments way of saying saying thats your contribution as a non custodian parent, because she as a sole custody parent is paying.

[–]softhandsam0 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You do have body autonomy?

Oh so I can just not work right? Don't have to pay for any kids if one is created right?

Why you keep saying you don't have control of your own body, you had it the whole time up to the point of conception.

As did the woman, yet they claim bodily autonomy argument after that, yes or no ?

I LISTED THEM,

I'm aware.

Now youre butthurt that women have one after the point of conception? Wtf is going on here

WOMEN claim that to not have abortion as a right violates their bodily autonomy. So suggesting that you don't have bodily autonomy AFTER conception is against the argument for abortion.

Either bodily autonomy stops being a right after conception or it doesn't. You choose.

Ill repeat it again, abortion is a tool to prevent the birth of that child exclusively made for women that is used or isnt.

That doesn't explain why making men pay 18 years is worse. That's the question.

Once that baby comes out you as a man hold responsibility just like she too hold the SAME responsibility because she did NOT make that baby on her own.

This doesn't explain why making a man pay 18 years is worse than forcing an abortion on women. You're simply stating current laws. That's my an argument.

No one has a one up here.

WOMEN certainly do lmfao.

Child support is there to protect women and children from men like you who actually believe that ALTHOUGH they fucked up and ejaculated in a vagina regardless of all the warnings, and male protections that exist, since the guy didnt want one a child and the woman did, they as a male should be absolved of all responsibility and all of it should fall on the women because abortion exist and they decided they didn't want to get one.

I disagree with everything you wrote but you STILL aren't addressing the question.

Giving women the right to abortion gives them the ability to force a man to pay child support for 18 years. "Bbbbut he shouldn't have had sex" isn't an argument unless it applies to both sides equally. Since it doesn't, you have to explain why you think that double standard should exist, you're just saying it does, suck it up and deal with it. And you're doing it with an insane amount of repetition.

To protect women? They had the choice to abort, they should protect themselves. To protect children? How about not fucking a guy who isn't committed !? Why are you only worried about protecting the child at the man's expense? When it came to choosing a good dad you can't be bothered but suddenly you want to protect the child of the deadbeat you didn't give a second thought to letting nut in you and didn't abort? After all the chances YOU had to protect the child that you didn't choose the man should be expected to protect the child you wouldn't?

Why?

if abortion just suddently didnt exist anymore, child support will STILL be here and youll still have to pay with NO arguement.

Yes because the argument is that it's not fair, making abortion illegal would make it fair.

Now women just sleep with the hottest guy they can, not worried about finding a good dad because the state will force the dad to pay. If abortion was illegal women couldn't just sleep with hot deadbeats and that prospect terrifies them.

Now it exist and you want to use it as a tactic against women to protect YOUR interest?

Isn't that what women do when they choose abortion.

When it was made protect HER interest.

Originally abortion was created not for women to use every other month after screwing random hotties and letting them raw dog nut in her. It was made to stop pregnancies that were life threatening.

Women DECIDED that abortion should be a right because they felt their autonomy was violated. So it was not created solely for the benefit of women in the way you described.

You didnt want a child because it will financially screw you, the child will also financially screw the woman too.

No she fixing won't less than 20% of women who should pay support do.

Child support is your porportion to pay, the governments way of saying saying thats your contribution as a non custodian parent, because she as a sole custody parent is paying.

Why do you keep behaving as if I'm not aware of the current system.

Stop explaining the system over and over, I'm aware it exists, i disagree with it. You need to justify it not repeatedly say the reasoning currently used, because I'm saying that reasoning is bad

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Whoa. I don't even know how to respond to such atrocity. There was so much to disect there. You must be black pilled or something. As a male you hold superiority complex and feel women are beneath you, Im assuming one with power over that must have turned your world view upside down.

Men can do the same thing with power too, dont get it twisted. Infact men fuck you over alot more than women do, its just because you want to have sex with women and developed different emotions towards them that this is hitting harder. Im going to PM you dude. Im not trying to convert you into red pill or blue pill, but I want to see exactly where this all coming from. From your perspective

Btw im not a blue pill lol, i have my opinions about the second and third wave feminism and also think some aspect of redpill is downright incorrect. Im more of a purple pill lol

[–]Siam-Guy1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Ahleksx 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Nope because it is a question of trust. If she is on pill and they agree on that then if she is pregnant because she stoped the pill she did not fill the contract. And you cant say it is his choice to have sexe since they bith have the choice but they have not the same option after.

I/If you can do something but have less consequence on you, you have the same right

Woman/men right : having unprotected sexe on contraceptive pill with a accord between the two partner. (Why not pill for the man? Because for now i erase the libido and rhe pill is not permanent contrary to vasectomy)

The pb is the man have not rhe same right to have a word. Ok well fair enough her body her choice. But he have the same duty as her because she can "drop" motherhood and he cant drop fatherhood (and dont say that child support is nothing, you are engage on at least 18 years.) What is called having rights with less duties?

[–]AggravatingTartletBlue is the sexiest color 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ahleksx 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

The pill can fail. Okay so could the male pill then whose fault will it be . And i was more talking about volontary stop. Because missing one day only wont screw the whole thing. How i know? My gf.

Why don't men get together and fund a proper pill for themselves??? That would fix their problem.

Oh, so you think a male pill would kill male libido? Did you know it kills female libido for far too many women? And if it doesn't kill it, then it dampens it and can even give her thrush and make sex painful.

Fair enough

Men can't get pregnant. They're happy to jeer at women,

The pb is not here and shows that you dont understand. The pb is that even if the women bear the child 9 month, she has the choice to keep it, give up her motherhood or abortion. The man has no word to say. So okay that for 9 month and then the woman can give her child. The man will bear the burder of an unwanted child for at least 18 YEARS. The pb is the disproportionate amount of decision a woman has and the bad (unwanted) consequences ARE ONLY ON the biological father.

Men who don't want to get a women pregnant should ensure their sperm gets NOWHERE near her eggs.

Yeah for sure it is always the man's fault. You know, men and women have condome designed for them so if the woman dont want to be pregnant thz same goes for her.

[–]AggravatingTartletBlue is the sexiest color 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

The pb is not here and shows that you dont understand. The pb is that even if the women bear the child 9 month, she has the choice to keep it, give up her motherhood or abortion. The man has no word to say.

I do understand. And I know it sucks for the man who didn't want the baby.

But if we say that men do not have to bear ANY consequences, then what we're saying is that the cost and trauma and health issues of contraception and pregnancy are ALL on women. Men can run about fancy free and sticking their penises in everywhere at random, while women are forced to be the adults and also be burdened with the serious health issues of taking hormones every day of her life from age 15 to 50.

How is that remotely fair?

Men never have to make the sometimes heartbreaking decision whether to keep a baby or not. They never have to put up with painful periods or contraception that takes away their libido or makes them put on weight or gives them blood clots and strokes etc. They never have to make the decision or whether to keep a baby or adopt it out. Keeping a baby can end a woman's dreams and career, but she might feel she has no other option, because she can't see herself giving up her own baby.

Meanwhile, the man is running about partying and having sex with yet more women.

It's absolutely insane what men expect of women, while wanting to wash their hands of ALL responsibility. It's fucked.

You know, men and women have condome designed for them so if the woman dont want to be pregnant thz same goes for her.

Women already bear the cost and health issues of contraception. They shouldn't have to pay for condoms as well. Plus it's pretty difficult for a woman to use a condom as she'd have to hold it in place.

[–]Ahleksx 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

But if we say that men do not have to bear ANY consequences, then what we're saying is that the cost and trauma and health issues of contraception and pregnancy are ALL on women.

I understand your point. If it is an accident, both are responsible. Howerver, since both are reponsible, both should have a voice. Maybe you wont like the comparaison but for now since we dont have to register (in france at least) both men and women have the right to vote(same roght and same duty). Voting has consequence on the whole population. Having half the population voting and having the other half this right denied would be unfair because the decision of the former have also consequences on the latter.

Men can run about fancy free and sticking their penises in everywhere at random, while women are forced to be the adults and also be burdened with the serious health issues of taking hormones every day of her life from age 15 to 50.

Actually no. Men doing this have condome (even if it is not perfect) and women dont have to take the pill if it is protected sex. So it does not really apply to this situation.

How is that remotely fair?

You dont jave to take the pill unless you are okay with unprotected sex.

Men never have to make the sometimes heartbreaking decision whether to keep a baby or not.

Yeah because even if they want they dont have a word anyway.

They never have to put up with painful periods or contraception that takes away their libido or makes them put on weight or gives them blood clots and strokes etc.

Yeea nature on this point is a bitch. But it is not the men's fault in this case. Moreover yeah even if there are pills for men the pb is the same.

It's absolutely insane what men expect of women, while wanting to wash their hands of ALL responsibility. It's fucked.

Develop please because it is okay to take reponsabilities for ones decision but not others unless they are under your "tutel" Imagine, i am with my gf. She decide to buy a house without me knowing since i dont want to. Then say you dont have a word to say and finaly say, i will live in this house and you will have to pay even if it s not your choice.

Women already bear the cost and health issues of contraception. They shouldn't have to pay for condoms as well. Plus it's pretty difficult for a woman to use a condom as she'd have to hold it in place.

Yeah i agree for the cost of tampon but pill is when you are okay with unprotectes sex since the emergency pill exist for this very reason if the condome failed. Moreover about the cost of living: here Total (without chocolate....) 16 682 $ in a liftime.

Child support for 18 years : the least is 400$/month So the minimum of the child support for 1 year is 12×400=4 800 On 18 years 4800×12=57 600$ If you want the upper value it is with 1 100 $/month So 12×1 100×18=237 600 $

child support cost

Plus it's pretty difficult for a woman to use a condom as she'd have to hold it in place.

Okay then search as to be done to tackle the issue since you were also talking about making men pill more effective.

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

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It takes “two to tango”, but it take a woman to choose to abort, or give birth, to the baby. The man has to live with the consequences for the second decision the woman makes.

She can only get pregnant if he puts sperm inside her vagina. No other way. He has the choice not to put his sperm there.

She does not have the choice of pregnancy happening. She does not have full control over whether his sperm reaches one of her eggs. Her birth control can fail. Or his telling her that he will pull out is either a lie or he fails at doing it.

Then she is left with a terrible decision. It's not a simple thing. It might not be a choice for her if she doesn't believe in abortion or is unable to go through with it. Her life choices have been taken away from her.

He has the right to choose not to put sperm inside her. If he does that while not wanting to become a father, he's been willfully stupid.

[–]DeuxPistoletsNo Pill 39M 6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Here’s where I’m going to throw your argument flat on their face:

She can only get pregnant if he puts sperm inside her vagina. No other way.

Yes. She can also abort the pregnancy if she wishes, with or without the males consent. She, ultimately, has a final say well after the sexual intercourse takes place. The male isn’t involved in her decision.

He has the choice not to put his sperm there.

Once again, she has the choice to get, or not get, an abortion despite what the male wants, and without his say.

She does not have the choice of pregnancy happening.

Yes she does... She goes to an abortion clinic. Simple enough, right?

She does not have full control over whether his sperm reaches one of her eggs. Her birth control can fail. Or his telling her that he will pull out is either a lie or he fails at doing it.

After any of those things happen... Guess what she can do without the knowledge or consent of the man? You guessed it... Go to an abortion clinic. Who has the final choice?

Then she is left with a terrible decision. It's not a simple thing.

So is the man. It’s his baby too. She can murder it without his consent.

It might not be a choice for her if she doesn't believe in abortion or is unable to go through with it. Her life choices have been taken away from her.

She still had the final say.

He has the right to choose not to put sperm inside her.

Yes. That’s true. They both would have made the decision to have unprotected sex. However... After sex, she has the ability to make a second decision independently from the male whether or not to have the child. That leaves the male’s decision null and void.

If he does that while not wanting to become a father, he's been willfully stupid.

That is correct. However, if he doesn’t want to be a father, and she does, she should be made to be solely responsible for the child financially. Because, after all, she had the final say, and it was her choice.

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Society doesn't care about men. They see us as beasts of burden. They are also worried that if men don't support women then the tax payers will.

Men make up half of our society, if they care more about their rights and get loud about it things will change.

Idk if you saw it but in my other comment to another person on this thread I was saying tax payers would have to pay either way. Either welfare and foster care, or imprisonment and extra policing if the kids are just left to suffer.

A better idea is to making joint custody the go to. If men have joint custody then they wouldn't have to support their Ex's. It also has the added benefit of forcing females to pick good men. Best believe Chad wouldn't be so hot then.

This would work great for men who want their kids but it does nothing for men who want financial abortions. They don’t want the child and this would just be a good way to pretend something was done for them when in reality nothing was done.

Another good bet is to drum up anti immigration sentiment. If the state doesn't have a replacement population, they'll be forced to fix the SMP. Then they'll have to make sure that Betas are "financially attractive" again.

I’m an immigrant myself so idk if I could ever get behind this. Would men even want this though? It means more pressure to conform to your gender roles and being put in the position of being a beta bux which is something most men seem to want to avoid. They’d prefer a woman who likes them for them.

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Um if men can do that so can women. People forget that women can be and are sued for child support. The fact that either parent could be sued (regardless of the actual prevalence) means that the law is technically not unfair. This is like claiming that laws against armed burglary are unfair to black males because they affect black males disproportionately who commit that crime at disproportionate rates. The law is fair because anyone who commits the crime can be punished. But if one had evidence that white men are getting away with armed burglaries that’s another issue about enforcement that doesn’t justify making burglarizing legal.

Women usually have primary custody which is necessary for the child’s well being (by that I mean someone has to physically take care of a kid) so if the woman is doing that part of the job and the man is supporting the child financially through child support (even though custodial parents actually spends more on their kids on average but I digress) then both parents are being responsible for the child. So what is the problem really? Men want to have kids out there they aren’t paying for? Hmm if they change the law they should make the father explain this to the child when they are old enough to comprehend. “Hey kid I hate your mom so I didn’t want to give her any money to help raise you, it’s only fair since if it were up to me you woulda been aborted.”

Honestly I never hear good fathers complain about child support, my parents divorced and my dad paid child support no problem in addition he paid for things for me all the time. My friends dad did the same, he always paid and on top of that would pay for my friends car payments and vacations, school bills etc..or maybe these men are just that broke. I mean you know the mom lives with kids so why are you complaining even if the kid was with you full time you’d have to pay day care assuming you have job and that’s probably more than your child support payments.

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A paper abortion will absolve one parent of responsibilities. As already discussed above, there will have to be state care in place if the mother is unable to support the child herself. So, care from the male parent is replaced with care from the state (if necessary). You are correct that this is not an option, however, this could be because not a lot of people have considered this. It would have to be brought to the mainstream, and voters would have to show that this is a priority if they would like this law and the necessary fundings to be in place (again, this is what this thread is discussing). As I stated at the beginning the only logical argument is that paper abortions are hard on tax payers. I’ll try one more time, do you have any other arguments? (Besides, “Move on!!!” of course)

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And women have to deal with the unfair disadvantages of biological laws in addition to laws men keep messing with so at the end of the day, you can pout or you can take calculated risks with the best that is available to you

Like nothing is stopping you as a man from slowing down to get to know a person or only dating women with incomes comparable to yours so that you cant get "divorce raped". Nothing is stopping you from looking into legal remedies before hand and nothing is stopping you from prioritizing character

You have more to work with than a lot of women and you get to have a family later than women if you so please.

I know I live in this country and I am tilted by what I see in the White House and the manipulation of law that isnt being respected by men in power.

You really think I'm going to stop my life over this? Priorities.

Women are born into inequity and will still pursue family if they so please. If you don't do so intelligently with what you have it's a simple case of you not wanting it bad enough

Which is totally acceptable of course.

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[–]YveisGrey1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

What does that even mean? Um If he did so it would be anonymously do you know what anonymous means? It means they don’t know who dropped the baby and don’t care. And a man could claim a baby dropped at a safe haven why not? I mean the child is essentially a ward of the state at that point if any relatives come forward they would have “first dibs” if they could prove their relationship to the baby. I mean in the hypothetical situation that this happened and the father knew and wanted the baby I don’t see why he could not make a claim and get tested for paternity. Natural fathers can even jeopardize adoptions that are in process.

But in most cases where that happens the mother does not actually know who the father is or he has already left her. It’s not like married women with supportive husbands/fathers are the main ones leaving babies on fire hydrants. I really need y’all to stop being so willfully ignorant as if the main reason women abort or worse yet leave babies at safe havens is to spite men. 🙄

The law doesn’t describe anything. And of course the woman gets custody if she isn’t married because um how does the state know who the father is? Use your brains a little. If a woman is single and has a child and no man signs that birth certificate as far as the state is concerned they have no idea who the dad is. But they will know who the mom is because she gave birth in the absence of not knowing the default custody will be given to the known parent, the mother. Again that is due to the nature of reproduction which we are all well aware of.

Lastly it takes two to tango. A woman cannot have a man’s baby by herself. Yea she chooses to give birth, (pregnancy and birth are both passive so it’s not even a choice in the general sense of the word but I digress) but women give birth everyday to children you are not the father of. If you are the father it’s because of your own choices as well. Birth is necessary but it is not sufficient for a man to be a father. A man is responsible for his kids because he is the father not simply because a woman gave birth to a baby.

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[–]hallucinatronic3 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

A woman should never have to rely on an abortion if she chooses to have sex without contraceptives.

I do think lying is wrong but how can anyone prove that?

So you do think women lying is wrong, are aware that it happens, and also think men should have absolutely no rights when it comes to protecting themselves from a woman that lied? If a woman lies and says she has an IUD that's exactly like a man pulling off a condom and getting a woman pregnant.

At the end of the day you should take matters into your hands

At the end of the day women should take matters into their own hands or coat hangers if they think that it's okay to kill children.

Its actually absurd that men expect this if women at all.

It's actually absurd that women expect men to pay for a child for 2 decades as if the man's money comes from some vault of privilege, rather than forcing the man to waste his life on a child he didn't even want in the first place.

It would be like if a man lied about wearing a condom, but we forced women to have abortions even if the man lied.

[–]YveisGrey3 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

A woman should never have to rely on an abortion if she chooses to have sex without contraceptives.

Of course and same goes for a man who doesn’t want to be a father.

So you do think women lying is wrong, are aware that it happens, and also think men should have absolutely no rights when it comes to protecting themselves from a woman that lied? If a woman lies and says she has an IUD that's exactly like a man pulling off a condom and getting a woman pregnant.

I understand that but you do realize that these cases happen all the time and are rarely prosecuted. To men and women. Why? Because they are extremely difficult to prove in court it’s literally just he said she said. That’s why it’s pretty pointless to bring it up. But fine you want to waste your breath lobby for a change in the law on that front still has nothing to do with abortion and/or child support. Even if a man did prove that maybe he could sue the woman but it wouldn’t absolve him from having to care for his kid. I mean once that child is born their needs are going to override all that, just like a woman can’t abort a kid after they are born no matter how or why they were conceived.

At the end of the day women should take matters into their own hands or coat hangers if they think that it's okay to kill children.

Um that’s not at all comparable. Should men make their own condoms then and perform their own vasectomies? And you think abortion is bad for killing children but have no issue with men abandoning their children? CLASSIC.

It's actually absurd that women expect men to pay for a child for 2 decades as if the man's money comes from some vault of privilege, rather than forcing the man to waste his life on a child he didn't even want in the first place.

No it’s not. It’s not at all absurd to expect parents to provide for and take care of THEIR KIDS. You sound like a psychopath. You obviously are not a father well I hope for the sake an innocent child that you aren’t.

[–]hallucinatronic1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]YveisGrey1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I never said that they should be ignored stop putting words in my mouth. They hard to prove in a court of law and thus the best course of action is to avoid the situation all together.

Hey, if a man wants a woman to carry a child to term she has the right to terminate the pregnancy.

Um yes because the pregnancy does not involve his body at all.

But if a man wants a woman to end a pregnancy, he should have a right to reject parenthood should she choose to stay pregnant.

Nope because no one has a right to evade responsibility for their child once that child is born. It doesn’t matter what they wanted. You can’t electively abort your child in last trimester or after they are born.

He can reject parenthood all he wants but once that child is born his rejection is null and void. The child is person with rights to care. His “rights” end where that child’s rights begin.

You're the one that's arguing against women not only being able to have abortions, but society taking rape seriously.

No I am not. I am not arguing in regards to abortion at all actually I am only arguing against “paper abortions” they do not fall under the same grounds legally as actual abortions.

[–]hallucinatronic1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]YveisGrey1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Thats not true sometimes rape is very easy to prove like if the victim was kidnapped, violently attacked or a minor. But in the case that two people who have a sexual relationship are uncertain about the birth control practices of one another? Well that would definitely be tough. Also all BC methods have a failure rate so that adds to the difficulty it could very well be that the woman was on BC and she got pregnant anyways it happens in about 1 in 100 cases which is frequent enough.

And How about you be responsible for your body instead of relying on someone else to take BC so you don’t become a father? Since you want to talk about taking responsibility so much.

Yes men don’t have that power because they don’t get pregnant. Tough. They also don’t die or get injured from traumatic child births. I know the world is so unfair.

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So? You are aware that a woman can only sue for child support if she has custody. So in that case BOTH parents responsible. The mom is already being responsible by taking care of the kid. So the only one looking irresponsible and unaccountable are the men arguing against supporting their own kids.

No ability to prevent the sexual encounter? Lol stop lying. If you are talking about statutory rape there is plenty of ability in fact most teen boys are physically stronger than most adult women. And rape is already a crime. Child support is not about rape at all it’s about dependent kids getting support from their parents. Mothers and fathers can be sued for child support. You want to bring up the 0.00005% of rape cases where a woman rapes a teen gets pregnant keeps the baby and then sues him for child support what about the 15% of women paying child support?

And I am not demonstrating anything except that actual abortion and “paper abortion” are not the same thing at all, they don’t function on the same grounds and thus the former does not in any way justify the latter.

[–]hallucinatronic1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]Barely-moralRed leaning purple-seal. Diagnosed ASPD 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

And women have to deal with the unfair advantages of biological laws in addition to laws men keep messing with

I am all for fair laws. Equal treatment under the law for both men and women. About "biological laws" well we are stuck with them until we are no longer stuck with them. I am not a "nature purist" in any way. If we find a technology that removes the problems that women have because of biology I will support it.

you can pout or you can take calculated risks with the best that is available to you

We can do both. There is no reason to do just one of them.

Like nothing is stopping you as a man from slowing down to get to know a person or only dating women with incomes comparable to yours so that you cant get "divorce raped". Nothing is stopping you from looking into legal remedies before hand and nothing is stopping you from prioritizing character

You have more to work with than a lot of women and you get to have a family later than women if you so please.

You are correct. But the law is still unfair and the fact that work arounds exist doesn't change that. Laws should not be unfair.

Use the workarounds AND complain about laws being unfair. Use the workarounds AND vote. Use the workarounds AND try to convince other people so they vote like you.

There is no reason to do just one option.

[–]gigababejfl 6 years ago* [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

So women are stuck with biological laws that cant be changed and with the laws men don't like but won't offer reasonable alternatives.

I'm not saying you are wrong but I also have not heard of reasonable solutions from men and we as young women do not have a bunch of decades or power to change laws. We live in the now in strange times with men who are not certain of themselves.

So men can come here and just complain about fairness while they coordinate to extract as much from women for as little as possible.

Well women are either going to have fun or they are going to get proactive. FDS gets so much criticism but it is women deciding to play defense bc they WANT husbands and kids and happy families even in these caustic conditions

Like honestly. Am I going to waste my twenties with a man claiming marriage laws are unfair or am I going to just focus on securing my finances, be healthy in body and mind and find a like minded man to get on board?

Its femcel who do not have the looks leverage who really have the issue. A lot of men squander their privilege and have fits with no solutions and no nation building right now

When you come from where I do where unfairness and bias is the norm, you don't sweat the small stuff and do you best.

[–]Barely-moralRed leaning purple-seal. Diagnosed ASPD 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

So women are stuck with biological laws that cant be changed

It is a matter of time. We humans will trascend those laws. We were born a little bit early. That is all.

and with the laws men don't like but won't offer reasonable alternatives.

Politics are way too complex for "reasonable alternatives" to be easily found. But for the moment yes, we are both stuck with laws that seem hard to change. Eventually we will change the biological laws and maybe then we will have no reason to keep the legal ones.

I'm not saying you are wrong but I also have not heard of reasonable solutions from men and we as young women do not have a bunch of decades or power to change laws.

Feminism is quite effective at getting laws passed. You may think otherwise but given the few decades since it's appearance on the politic stage I say it is more effective than any movement that is controlled by or dedicated to men.

Also, the reasonable solution is allowing for men to give up all parental rights and obligations during the first week of the pregnancy so the woman can choose to either have an abortion or raise the child by herself.

So men can come here and just complain about fairness while they coordinate to extract as much from women for as little as possible.

Those are not contradictions. As long as the law is fair, people trying to extract as much value from other people for as little as possible is not wrong. It is natural.

Well women are either going to have fun or they are going to get proactive.

Sounds fair. I am ok with that.

FDS gets so much criticism but it is women deciding to play defense bc they WANT husbands and kids and happy families even in these caustic conditions

That is the reason you will rarely see me criticizing them. If I have any criticism towards FDS that ciriticism is aimed at the efficacy of their methods. I have nothing against a movement that tries to give women the tools to chase after what they want.

Like honestly. Am I going to waste my twenties with a man claiming marriage laws are unfair or am I going to just focus on securing my finances, be healthy in body and mind and find a like minded man to get on board?

You are going to do what you think will bring you good results and you will live with the consequences.

I hope that whatever option you make you end up as a happy and fullfilled human being.

I can see an argument for both options.

Its femcel who do not have the looks leverage who really have the issue.

I agree that femcels that don't have the looks leverage are the ones who have it the worse. But they are the exception, not the rule. They are a minority. A minority I feel for. I would never make fun of someone that was dealt a bad hand in life.

A lot of men squander their privilege and have fits with no solutions and no nation building right now

I agree. Lots of men complaining in this forums could focus on saving a few dollars and learn a language or two. Then move to a third world country where their tiny savings suddenly have a lot of value and teach languages. That is enough for them to be a top tier man in a country that is not as feminist as the first world country they were born in.

All their problems could be solved easily. They just lack the spine to do it.

When you come from where I do where unfairness and bias is the norm, you don't sweat the small stuff and do you best.

I don't like the idea of getting used to unfairness and bias. Every unfairness and every bias is bad. It doesn't matter if it is the norm, it doesn't matter if it is small stuff. It doesn't matter if it affects just a tiny number of people.

People "just sweating" the unfairness and bias they see around them are the reason that those unfair situation and biases keep going strong.

I don't have a lot of impact in the world, but in every situation I am in, I will not accept any unfairness or bias nor keep quiet about it.

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[–]YveisGrey 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]YveisGrey 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]YveisGrey 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]welcometothejlChill💊 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]YveisGrey 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]welcometothejlChill💊 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]YveisGrey 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Siam-GuyThe Ultimate Crimson Pill 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]welcometothejlChill💊 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheIntrepid1k -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheIntrepid1k 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]TheIntrepid1k -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Joey_Lopez 6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]proudly_toxic 5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]Joey_Lopez -3 points-2 points-1 points 6 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]proudly_toxic 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]Joey_Lopez -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Joey_Lopez -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]proudly_toxic 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Joey_Lopez 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]proudly_toxic 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Stahlherz14 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Joey_Lopez 10 points11 points12 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]chocolatefondant21 -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]AutisticLurker 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]901735 -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]901735 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]catemlBlue Pill Woman 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ivy176Blue Pill Woman 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

So you're pissed off that men aren't the ones to get pregnant?

If you don't want to get anybody pregnant then you have the luxury of that CHOICE in this society. Birth control is not just the woman's responsibility - take it into YOUR OWN HANDS, take responsibility. Always wear a condom and always bring your own that are in date, fit properly and haven't been touched by anyone else. Get a vasectomy AND use condoms.

You can't leave it up to the woman and expect her oral contraceptive to be guaranteed because they are not 100% effective. Even if the woman didn't take it properly or didn't take it at all and lied about being on it, you still chose at least a 3% chance by relying on someone else's oral contraceptive as your birth control.

If you actually want to choose no pregnancy then you would put effort into it and use 2 forms of contraception that you have control over. Otherwise, if you put no effort into protecting yourself, you are choosing a risk of pregnancy by having sex. Plenty of men just have unprotected sex without any birth control and just hope for the best as well. Choices.

[–]valeriewasright 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]relish5kpolitically red pilled, sexually blue 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]skylarkeleven -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Stahlherz14 -2 points-1 points0 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]relish5kpolitically red pilled, sexually blue 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Stahlherz14 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Siam-GuyThe Ultimate Crimson Pill 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]AutoModerator[M] 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]HotDamImHere 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Are you stupid? In the case where a woman is granted sole custody of the children and the man has to pay child suport is a balanced solution. When a women is raising her child, feeding them, clothing then, taking them to school, paying for that child too, that too is CHILD SUPPORT, and government mandated too. You know what happens if she doesn't take care of her child? She goes to fucking jail. How does the male contribute? Paying into that child support for a child they created but is under no obilgation to raise that child.

Stop saying forcing man to pay child supoort is violating of body anatomy. Thats a fucking reach. You're paying your proportion of child care you don't want to contribute.

You dont have a job when child support is mandated? You pay 0 or minimal. You have a job already?, okay you contribute whatever your government mandates you to contribute based on income. You want to argue the limiting that amount that is award to child or fathers being forced to pay for children that isnt theirs? Thats a debate on it own. But once that DNA matches and your the father, youre 100% responsible for your contribution. Doesnt matter if you didnt want one, doesnt matter if she did, doesnt matter she didnt get an abortion, doesnt matter if your condom popped, all of that was tools that can be used to avoid this moment right here but instead a baby is born, and just because YOU FEEL like you shouldnt be responsible because YOU dont want the child, you are, you had sex KNOWING this can happen. Just like SHE has to take care of the child and pay for shit, unlike you SHE doesnt see it as a money pit or burden. Just because YOU see it as one doesnt change the fact YOU contributed. Period

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Katphishpurpdrank 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Trombona_fide 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Sid_Insidious 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]WishIWasAMuppet1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]slavicslothe -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]IcyHotRoad 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]lilastrChristian Woman Single mother of 5 -4 points-3 points-2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]AotearoaRepublican -2 points-1 points0 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ReasonableSignature7 -2 points-1 points0 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Title	What a fucking joke.
Author	IcyChillMikes
Upvotes	110
Comments	518
Date	May 11, 2020 10:20 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/ghxulu/what_a_fucking_joke/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/what-a-fucking-joke.664019 https://theredarchive.com/post/664019

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