Consensus on "financial" abortion right for males

countrymace · 2022-09-24T17:09:38+00:00

It should exist. The window of decision should be limited to the timeframe a woman has to choose an abortion after finding out she’s pregnant. The time limitation runs from the date the father is notified. The decision should be permanent and completely sever the father/child relationship

benevolentwalrus · 2022-09-24T16:48:57+00:00

I don't know the consensus but personally I think it's good only if abortion is also freely accessible. The logic breaks down if you provide one but not the other.

Even-Analysis237 · 2022-09-24T15:41:55+00:00

Financial abortions I support wholly; they should be accessible for all men as it’s the closest option available to saying “no I am not in a position to afford this right now (which is valid for women, so should be valid for men)”. What I don’t support is giving the man a say in the final decision of her choosing an actual abortion or not, because they have a biological aspect we simply don’t have unfortunately.

I should add however that we should be looking beyond this and looking to support low income families, and children that either party do choose to have otherwise we’re just inflicting unnecessary suffering on the child themselves too, which considering how high the poverty rate and the impact on young men that is already, isn’t fair to the kids.

We also need more support for prospective and new parents, as well as more support for men in terms of their mental health throughout the process, whether it’s a financial abortion (until we improve and have a better option), dealing with her choice to have an abortion or dealing with the prospect of being a new father.

Concluding with the concept that I also don’t think there is an ‘equal’ option and solution to this unfortunately without being unfair to one or other party involved.

shitboi666999 · 2022-09-24T18:20:50+00:00

I'm pro-abortion

Both financially for the father

And normal abortion for the mother (who already can financially abort her child by giving it to adoption)

Reddit1984Censorship · 2022-09-24T15:42:23+00:00

''My money, my choice'' - Dave Chappelle
Women have the right to make the desicion on their own while men do not have that right.

Mushybasha · 2022-09-24T20:43:47+00:00

If you think about it, men are the only people for whom the choice to engage in sexual activity and choosing to risk forced parental responsibilities are one in the same. Woman obviously can choose to have an abortion but even if they don't they still can put the child up for adoption. Surrogate mothers choose to reproduce without accepting parental responsibility. Couples who adopt choose parental responsibility without reproduction. It's only men for whom sex and choosing to become parents are considered one in the same. And of course it's only men who get dragged before family courts and informed that they must pay child support for 18 years regardless of how their sperm conceived a pregnancy. This state of affairs is acceptable to most people, yet I'm crazy for being MGTOW.

Bacotell6969 · 2022-09-24T20:02:38+00:00

Two people had unprotected sex, so two people should a have choice.

xcheshirecatxx · 2022-09-24T17:45:23+00:00

Mra who are against abortions for women are also against financial abortions

Mra for abortions for women are usually for financial abortions

TrilIias · 2022-09-24T18:36:11+00:00

It's "legal paternal surrender," not "paper abortion" or financial abortion."

Paternal surrender is comparable to maternal surrender, which women have had for a long time and is not under threat. If you compare legal paternal surrender to abortion, not only is it a bad comparison, it also is ineffective, as half the country opposes abortion and they'll be unlikely to support whatever this "paper abortion" is. Meanwhile the other half of the country is likely to argue (correctly) that men's reproductive situation isn't comparable to women's, and that men have no equivalent to abortion.

At a time when abortion is being outlawed or restricted in many states, what will be your basis for asking for "financial abortion?" Equality? Women have abortion so we should have financial abortion? Well that would just mean no legal paternal surrender in states banning abortion, meanwhile legal maternal surrender will still exist, so we will have an inequality against men, and MRAs will have no one to blame but ourselves and our poor use of words.

63daddy · 2022-09-24T16:34:55+00:00

I’ve read many posts. It’s incredibly rare that a MRA believes a man shouldn’t equally have a right to opt out if parenthood. In fact, I’d say almost every time I’ve seen someone oppose such equality here, a view of their profile has always shown that person is in reality a feminist troll.

A huge majority of MRAs believe men should equally have an opt out option or otherwise have the ability to surrender legal parenthood.

Add: I don’t think it’s unanimous, but I think there’s clearly a consensus.

Uncomfortabletomato · 2022-09-24T23:11:42+00:00

Abortion should be 10000% the woman’s choice however in my opinion, that means that if a man wants an abortion and she doesn’t, he should not be forced to pay for child support of any kind

WhereProgressIsMade · 2022-09-24T19:41:13+00:00

Just my opinion.

The default for unmarried couples should be double opt-in. Women can already opt out with abortion or legal parental surrender (they also have many more birth control options to begin with). Men can only opt out if she also opts out. If she wants to keep it and he doesn't then she does it knowing there's no child support. If he wants it and she doesn't, I don't think you can require her to carry it. He could offer terms similar to a surrogate mother gets, but I don't see how you could require her to accept it.

A default of requiring opting in for there to parental rights and financial responsibility puts the responsibility on the woman to figure out who the father is and get a paternity test if she only wants to opt in if he also does. If she can't figure it out, then she can't surprise a guy with a backlog of child support 5 years later.

I'm kind of in a weird place where I think abortion should be legal so we don't go back to coat hangers in dark alleys but I totally think you're murdering a baby.

regrettabletreaty1 · 2022-09-24T19:31:51+00:00

women: I don’t want to support this child People: Aw that’s your right honey

Men: I also don’t want to support this child People: We’ll throw you in prison if you don’t!

totoroloco_phd · 2022-09-25T01:16:16+00:00

Yeah, men should have reproductive rights the same as women.

yashspartan · 2022-09-24T18:08:41+00:00

If it's a matter of equality, I think it's only fair. The David Chapelle joke on it comes to mind. If she's allowed to kill the baby, at least let the men to not be financially responsible for the baby.

Drougen · 2022-09-24T18:45:50+00:00

I just saw a discussion about this in r/ask and everyone kept saying "It's his baby, he should be financially responsible for it" yet completely shirk away when you ask "Well what if he didn't want the baby? What if he was tricked / poked hole in condom / she wrapped her legs around him and locked him against her, etc" and nobody really had a straight forward answer.

Outside of that, if the man just purely doesn't want to have a child for whatever reason, he should be able to do something so he's legally not obligated to care for the child, similar to how sperm donors work imo.

_user_account_ · 2022-09-24T17:56:53+00:00

I'm on the extreme minority that thinks morally men should have no responsibility for children outside of explicit consensual agreement to do so because providing a necessary ingredient for a product to someone isn't an implicit agreement to what they do to it and consensually only women can decided what she does to her body, only person capable of making decision about whether or not to have kids. This holds whether or not you think abortion is moral.

BADorni · 2022-09-24T17:57:11+00:00

What is financial abortion?

Alone-County-8268 · 2022-09-26T01:12:30+00:00

As a Black woman, IMHO I've always believed it's a woman's body so it's her choice. A woman should not be forced to become a mother any more than a man should be forced to become a father.

I think all of this should be discussed before sex anyway, if a man doesn't want in any shape or form to financially, emotionally, psychologically, physically provide for a child or it's mother he should say so then. If he's that adamant not only should this be essential 2nd or 3rd date conversion, but he should be very responsible about condoms, making sure his partner is using contraceptives or rhythm method and be a partner in that endeavor.

iwasneverherehaha · 2022-09-24T18:33:32+00:00

I support financial abortion for both men and women.

Obviously this will mainly effect the man but in a small amount of cases the women could also benefit.

For example..

The women doesn't believe in abortion but doesn't want the child The man wants the child So the women surrenders her rights and always the man to take full responsibility giving him what he wants, ( the child and all rights)

And she gets what she wants.. no child responsibility

WeEatBabies · 2022-09-24T20:09:50+00:00

Calling it "abortion" is off putting, just call it safe heavens, women have access to safe heavens laws to surrender the baby, men should have the same!

GenericLoneWolf · 2022-09-24T18:54:58+00:00

I think most people here support paternal surrender and by extension also support abortion. I'm pro-life, so I don't support either of them.

Lightning77Plus · 2022-09-25T00:38:08+00:00

I fully support reproductive rights for all, men included.

A9SteakSauce · 2022-09-24T23:30:50+00:00

ahaha wishing i had any sort of reproductive rights currently

i got lied to about birth control, she begged me not to use condoms, and it’s STILL my fault. im absolutely powerless here and everyone says “enjoy paying child support that’s just how it is”

i’m sure i was irresponsible; but having sex under false pretenses and blamed by my own therapist when she coerces me and said she “just liked holding me in with her legs”??!

idk how i could ever deserve this and how the rest of the the world (looking at you specifically random deleted radfem account) can treat men with such cruelty genuinely keeps me awake at night.

MEDVSIN · 2022-09-25T01:40:45+00:00

If a woman can choose to reject motherhood, then a man should be able to choose to reject fatherhood. It’s only fair after all, otherwise it’s a complete double standard

MicrosoftOSX · 2022-09-24T19:29:21+00:00

My money my choice. It is fair to directly fund the kid, afterall you brought them to this world. It is not fair to have funnel the money through the mother. Also, a mandatory parental check should be required by law. Men can never be sure about the kid but they will most likely not ask for one as it will damage the relationship. If the check becomes a regular routine, no body will think much of it. It might even prevent STd from spreading as much because cheaters will use condoms (the potential mothers and father will not use protection but the extra man will be forced to)

Darth_Zoidberg_77 · 2022-09-24T23:00:10+00:00

Not sure about a consensus on this. Personally, I'm all for it.

I think that male financial support towards women only makes sense in the frame of reference of the society it was legislated in: One where women were legally considered to be property and not people, where women could not hold assets/land/businesses/etc. In that kind of messed up society, it only makes sense that an ex-husband would support an ex-wife, or etc.

But now we're in a society where women are the majority of students in higher education, women have access to significantly more welfare assistance, etc. Meanwhile, men are the vast majority of homeless, the vast majority of impoverished, the vast majority of suicides and workplace deaths, and so on. There's still debate on the wage gap, but statistics suggest very strongly that the wage gap, such as it is, has nothing to do with gender, and everything to do with choice of job, hours worked, and willingness to demand higher wage.

I think the only reason anybody should be providing financial support to their ex (regardless of gender) is if their ex has primary custody of any children of the relationship, and only then if they have considerably more time where they have to care for them. If custody is 50/50 then I see no reason why anybody should be providing child support to anybody else.

JimmyTheIntern · 2022-09-24T20:49:59+00:00

Abortion should be mandatory without the husband's consent.

Child support should only be awarded as a condition of fault divorce.

I will not be answering any questions. Thank you and goodnight.

almostadaddy · 2022-09-24T21:47:03+00:00

Not sure what financial abortion is supposed to mean. When post doesn't provide context or explain what a term of art means then it isn't possible to answer questions about it.

asdf333aza · 2022-09-24T21:58:54+00:00

Should be allowed, but never will be. Anything that transfers male finances and wealth to female's will forever be engraved within western society. They would never allow as many women to be homeless as they are willing to let men be homeless.

TAPriceCTR · 2022-09-24T22:22:30+00:00

I'm pro life in preference, pro equality in insistence. If women need the post sex choice to not be mothers, then equality dictates men must also have the post sex choice not to be fathers.

Wild-Film8486 · 2022-09-24T22:52:03+00:00

Not sure about the consensus, but I feel it’s 100% necessary in an egalitarian society. This issue has been on my mind a lot, and I can’t stop thinking about it. It just blows my mind that so many people proclaim “my body, my choice” while simultaneously expecting men to financially support her choice. When a woman says “I’m not ready for a kid” that’s seen as enough reason for her to get an abortion, and she’s even seen as brave for doing so. Yet, when men aren’t ready for kids, they’re dismissed as deadbeats for not being around. And when women choose to keep it in spite of the father’s wishes, the child grows up knowing it’s father doesn’t want it, and no child deserves to start their life that way.

I struggle with anxiety anyway, but this is a big issue for me, especially lately, it’s something that weighs on my mind a lot. My girlfriend promises me that we’ll only keep a baby if we BOTH agree, after we discussed it a bit. However, the fact that I have to rely on her not going back on her word really scares me. Not that I think she would do that, but the fact she could really scares the shit out of me. And I would probably commit suicide if that happened to me.

As long as abortion is legal, the financial abortion should be as well. So many people dismiss this issue by telling men “You shouldn’t have had sex if you can’t deal with the consequences” but it’s such an ignorant argument when women are given the ability to absolve themselves of the responsibility of a child, when they chose to have sex too. There’s a difference between consenting to sex and consenting to parenthood. No one should have to raise a child they don’t want-man or woman. No one.

Ricky469 · 2022-09-25T00:17:57+00:00

I am pro-choice. There should be recognition of male control over his procreation and financial responsibility for unwanted offspring. The recent Dobbs decision is a total step in the wrong direction. Woman have now lost the right to choose in many states even in cases of rape, incest, and the life of the mother. Those states are going to enforce a strict regime of forced breeding for both sexes. The best option is vasectomy for men and tubal ligation for women. Choice for both genders is not coming back anytime soon.

Inevitable-1 · 2022-09-25T01:42:26+00:00

I’m all for “financial” abortions for males, it should totally be a thing. Sign up some docs and you have no rights to the child and no child support, done.

octalanax · 2022-09-25T03:48:47+00:00

It's outside the Overton Window, so people refuse to think about or even acknowledge the idea of legal paternal surrender.

We're so used to men having no rights that it is inconceivable that they should.

Spartan486 · 2022-09-25T05:15:18+00:00

If a woman can choose to have a child or not without the man’s consent, then a man should be allowed to back out without any consequences.

Alive_Tough9928 · 2022-09-24T19:11:57+00:00

Im pro life

neovulcan · 2022-09-24T19:21:53+00:00

I know I'm in the minority but I'm a no on both kinds of abortion, actual and financial.

I do agree the law is consistently biased against men, but allowing men to be wrong too isn't exactly progress, even if it's fair.

PuzzleheadedMiddle44 · 2022-09-25T01:38:06+00:00

Men already have that option, it’s called abstinence. Works everytime.

Different_Weekend817 · 2022-09-24T19:37:50+00:00

it's not good for a child to grow up without a father, especially for boys who need a secure and strong male role model whilst growing up. i also don't understand how anyone can live with themselves knowing they abandoned their own flesh and blood but i guess it happens all the time.

don't know if there's a general consensus on this but yes, it does seem that many men's right's advocates are fighting for their right to abandon their child.

BlowDryerrr · 2022-09-24T17:22:10+00:00

100% support this. Seen too many guys who got trapped because of women changing their mind after an "accident".

I think we should normalize some form of legal agreement or declaration where all parties' intentions and potential decisions are made clear and open.

Could be as easy as an online form on a government run website that allows the individual to declare things like: I do not want kids, I am willing to pay child support in the case of a pregnancy, amount of child support being paid is proportional to amount of custody or visit time given... Etc

Then you simply run a search on your partner there if you wish to, don't agree with their terms then don't consent to intercourse. But if you agree, you will be held accountable to the terms declared.

Of course there are intricacies that I didn't go over. Eg. What happens in the case where the terms of each individual contradicts. However I still believe this can be implemented with enough people / lawyers working out the details on this idea.

rock-dancer · 2022-09-24T18:27:45+00:00

I think it’s an issue with a lot of controversy. Do we respect men to be responsible for their decisions or endorse the freedom to abdicate responsibility. I think it comes to the philosophical question of whether one thinks a fetus is owed something by the parents. If you endorse abortion you should probably respect it for both parental units

MeteorAsteroid · 2022-09-24T21:49:15+00:00

The idea that anyone would want to kill their own child, or leave them without resources is horrible.

BUT…..as far as laws go, I don’t think the law should have a say in either. This is a purely moral issue. Aborting a pregnancy as well as financially stranding a child should be discouraged by and for everyone, but the government should not be telling people what they can and can’t do.

The phrase “lawful but awful” works well here.

2022-09-24T22:20:29+00:00

This is a deprived sub. Please ban me, I can’t stop arguing with you sick fucks. None of you will ever be happy. Women are the cause of 100% of your problems and soon you’ll all be enslaved by the female race. I need to be banned.

Iceman_Hottie · 2022-09-25T05:45:10+00:00

What matters is factual correctness. Consensus shifts based on the group's intelligence and groups relying on concensus tend to be unintelligent.

Fundamentally, there should be an opportunity for men to void the rights and responsibilities, same as women have with abortion. The problem is in implementation, as women can easily hide the child, robbing the father of the opportunity to decide.

The situation broadly leaves 2 solutions:

1 neither parent has the option to dodge the responsibility and kill the child (zygote is a stage of development, same as teenager and adult). Not really all that workable.

2 a narrow window for both parents to abort their responsibility, with the termination of a life requiring the consent of both and in cases when the father was not informed in a timely manner to default to "financial abortion" unless the father within a small window chooses the opposite. This also pushes culturally towards a point where people take more responsibility for their actions leading to overall better life outcomes (kind of how human brain works).

In both cases DNA test is mandatory.

If its not obvious 2nd solution is by far the best.

neveragoodtime · 2022-09-25T13:13:34+00:00

I’m not in favor of Financial Abortion. I’m against child support. End Child Support and there’s no need for Financial Abortion. Give all parents the right to provide for their children in the way they see fit. Not all parents give their kids 20% of their income and they still turn out fine. Child Support is the cause for the need for Financial Abortion. Remove the cause.

Juicedejedi · 2022-09-25T15:03:27+00:00

the decision should not be there’s alone to make…..

somethingneet · 2022-09-26T02:29:45+00:00

Both parties should have the right to terminate their responsibility at any point

JericIV · 2022-09-24T19:09:39+00:00

I agree no one should ever be forced to be a parent.

However until we have stronger social safety nets that don’t guarantee poverty for parents, and ubiquitous easily accessible abortion access it’s a moot issue.

AegonTheYoungerIII · 2022-09-24T23:41:28+00:00

“Financial” abortion doesn’t make any sense.

If the father can abandon the child and leave it with the mother, then the mother should be able to abandon the child and leave it with the father. There’s no male equivalent to ending the pregnancy.

Thomjones · 2022-09-25T05:52:56+00:00

It's one of those things where we should be able to have a choice but somewhere along the way scumbags ruined it for us. So many dudes said nope and left their families to die financially, even if they weren't able to have a say in that child's birth, that the law had to intervene.

Outrageousirish · 2022-09-24T21:35:06+00:00

No it’s your own flesh and blood. So you do have a responsibility. Nothing wrong with getting that DNA test tho.

NetNeutralitee · 2022-09-24T15:46:35+00:00

Financial abortions don’t make sense.

There are many women that don’t believe abortion is morally acceptable and they shouldn’t be forced to raise a child alone because the other parent was fine with abandoning a child.

All it will do is dramatically raise the number of children living in poverty and make men less likely to use condoms because there would be no repercussions for them were a pregnancy to happen.

gamerlololdude · 2022-09-25T05:53:06+00:00

it makes sense to talk about this if real abortion is readily available without stigma. otherwise there is forced parenthood on the mother and people working on social reform would not allow men to go scot free leaving the burden on the mother.

like look at how Canada does it. look into their rules about revoking being a parent.

pappo4ever · 2022-09-26T00:15:00+00:00

My wallet my decision.

_Nedak_ · 2022-10-04T05:06:46+00:00

Why do you guys want this to be a right for men?

Title	Consensus on "financial" abortion right for males
Author	ttlx0102
Upvotes	419
Comments	342
Date	September 24, 2022 3:33 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/xmvwdq/consensus_on_financial_abortion_right_for_males/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/consensus-on-financial-abortion-right-for-males.1131860 https://theredarchive.com/post/1131860

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